Where do Marines get their equipment?

[Ryjak]

After reading the thread Training a New Chapter, it got me thinking about something else. Where do Marines get all their equipment and supplies? There's enough to support that Chapters maintain their own factories for bolters, ammo, and probably power armor and tanks. But what about the really rare stuff, like Tactical Dreadnought Armor, Plasma Cannons, and Battle Barges? If it was easy to build this stuff, there would be a lot more of it around. Besides, there's plenty to suggest that a lot of this is 'lost technology' that no one knows how to build, and barely know how to maintain. Heck, most of this stuff probably hasn't been scratch built since the Emperor walked the Earth.

 

This problem is compounded even more if you're looking at a Fleet Based Chapter, like the Black Templar. I suppose they could have factory ships, but where do they get the supplies to feed the factories? Do they make 'arrangements' with some other Imperial Organization to get Adamantium and other things that are hard to find/make, and devote time to mining everything else? Or do they just fly to some Imperial (or alien) planet and take what they need? Who'd going to argue with an entire Chapter?

[AnimeFreak40K]

the Chapter maintains its own weapons and equipment overall. this is what the Tech Marines and the pilots of the vehicles do.

 

on the matter of ammunition, it is prolly safe to assume that the Chapter Serfs produce it, or they pick up the supplies from the Adeptus Mechanicus or even as a Tithe from whatever worlds or systems the Chapter protects.

 

new vehicles, weapons, armor and starships, when necessary, are most likly requsitioned from some Forge World nearby, after all, that IS their job. these things are also prolly tithed to the Chapter on a regular basis, or at the very least an as-needed basis. when it comes to something like Tactical Dreadnought Armor, and other such rare and precious bits of technology, it is safe to assume that the vast majority of these suits have been rebuilt and spliced together from other suits that have been too damaged to repare. it is unlikly that the technology to create new ones has been totally lost, as one, if they are daring enough, could always reverse engineer Terminator Armor. as long as the armor can be maintained, it can be built from scratch.

the rarity most likly comes from the fact that its hard to build such suits for one reason or another (like some patterns of Leman Russ, there is only ONE Forge World that produces them).

 

if you ask me, i think the reason why the picture of such rarity is painted for Terminator Armor is because if you really think about it, each chapter may have something along the lines of 50-100 suits of this armor, and compared to the 1,000 marines that make up a chapter, that is not a lot of them. to say that such things are impossible to replace is just silly, because eventually you will run out of them and without new materials and parts, the ones that are in use will fall apart. i think that its an exageration...and its more likly the case that for the chapter, individual Tech Marines build this armor (much like Artificer Armor). but because it takes so long and such careful craftsmanship, the number of suits remains rather low. just my thoughts on the matter

[Wulfen_Icon]

I honestly think that it's just the quality of the suit. It's kind of like "well, evone drives a car, right? But only a few drive a Ferrari. That don't make no sense because a ferrari is just like any other car. Metal, engiene, 4 wheels... why not every one have one?"

 

I think that they are made, but are distributed sparsly becuase of the high-HIGH quality of such suits. The labour, and the work and the precision and the skill it takes to make such a suit.....

That's my opinion.

Also, some stuff comes from mars, but alot of chapters just make their own stuff.

Sincerely,

Icon

[Nid'hunter]

I always thought that it depended on the Chapter, old ones would have Dreadnoughts and a strong fleet. Young chapters would have more limited resources. It also depends on your location, the Helion Legion, t the edge of the Imperium would have to make do with a limited amount of equipment. ships travelling far from the astronomican generaly slow down a lot and it coud take decades before the next ship arrives.

 

They would generally have pacts made with the Mechanicus for ships and big stuff but there are exceptions such as the planet Calth of the Ultramar empire.

 

Baisically it depends on the Chapter and its location. :unsure:

[Ferrata]

I do believe planet-based chapters are assigned a forgeworuld to supply them with equipment.

 

Then the Chapter will make some of its own anyway.

 

Ferrata

[ironloki]

Well things such as terminator armour are being made but at a very low rate.

 

As for getting equipment other ways other than the ones suggested could be:

 

Inherit it from a parent chapter.

Obtain it for doing the imperium a great service

They could steal/salvage it :unsure:

[Ryjak]

Thanks for all of your ideas. I asked because I'm trying to figure out how my Vindicators get their equipment and supplies. Part of their background is a relatively long period of time where they're completely cut-off from the Imperium (life's rough out on the Eastern Fringe, ya know!) Since they don't have a nearby Forgeworld to supply them either, they're either going to have to salvage whatever they can find, or build/obtain factories themselves.

[Wenemun]

everything was made in the forgeworlds thousands of years ago, they are still making them, but have lost some of the STC's (standard template constructs) that they used to have.

As such, things like terminator armour, dreadnoughts battle barges etc etc cannot be made again. Terminator armour is supposed to be very rare, very old, and very revered. This is why only the absolute best warriors in the chapter are allowed to wear them. They can repair them, and salvage them, but making a new suit is beyond the chapter techmarine, if not very difficult.

The techpriests and adeptus mechanicii even have problems with making them, and the ones produced now arent as good as the ones made way back when.

 

The materials needed to make things often varies... theres more than one way to skin a cat, or make power armour, as it were.

For example, the reason that mk 4? armour was in and out of production very quickly, because not all the chapters had the sophisticated materials it needed to produce it, so the AM bought out mk 5 armour, which was easier to produce, and provided practically the same amount of protection.

 

Something else that i just thought of, terminator armour in fluff is near indestructible, not like in the game. Also, just because someone is "killed" in game, doesnt mean they are dead, it means they are out of action. This also applies to armour, they dont just disintegrate (well, sometimes), but their arm might be off, bullet through the eyepeice, damaged powerplant, knocked unconcious... any number of things, few which will completely destroy the armour. Same goes with battleships. It might not be moving, and the majority of the crew might be dead, but its salvageable... give the techpriests a few weeks with it, and its as good as new.

 

Fleet based Chapters will often set up mines and small forges on planets where needed, and will come back to these places for supplies.

 

Chapters with a homeworld will have most of what they need on their homeworld, or surrounding systems.

[Kastellan Kong]

Yeah, that's what I heard too, the Terminator STC were lost... And as of HOW new chapters get their hands on them I have no idea. Can't see to many chapters being willing to give up these sacred objects. Some of the Terminator armour (or tactical dreadnought armour) are from the Dark Age of technology... that's VERY old... :D

 

The mechanicus is probably trying to reverse engineer Terminator Armor but if a chapter tried it them selves then... if not excommunication, Well then probably a couple of nice old mechanicus warships would pay a visit to the chapters homeworld...

 

Salvage and repair is what keeps a chapter going. Mostly anyways. The Ultramarines build their own ships, so I would guess that ammunition and weapons wouldn't be a problem for them as well... But then again the Ultramarines, although they are the classical codex chapter, are quite unusual. I don't know if any other chapter has the perks that comes with ruling Ultramar (empire of the Ultramarines).

[Freman Bloodglaive]

The idea that suits of Terminator Armour are ancient and revered is not incompatible with the idea that it can be produced.

 

One thing that is ingrained in the 40k fluff is that the old is better than the new. Much like the Ancient Near East innovation is strongly discouraged. The Adeptus Mechanicus seeks STCs in order to build things as they used to be, not in order to advance.

 

They can build Terminator Armour, but new suits are not as well trusted as those handed down from antiquity. They probably won't be regarded as highly until they've been in service for five or six hundred years.

 

When the metalwork bears the patina of age, and the onboard computers seem to develop a life of their own, then the suit becomes a relic of the Chapter.

[Kastellan Kong]

onboard computers

 

Don't you mean onboard logic engines? You heretic! ;)

 

But yeah, your probably right. It seems silly if there isn't some way to replenish the supply of armour since not all battle damage might be repairable...

But then again the Imperium is in steady decline so I think the "no more termie armour" idea fits rather well in with the over all feel of the gaming world. Either way suites me just fine. :D

[Vodunius]

the most recent fluff on terminators is from UK White Dwarf 304, which says the Adeptus Mechanicus does still make terminator suits, but only in very small quantities

 

mark 4 armour (Imperius Maximus) wasnt taken out of production because the chapters couldnt manufacture it, but because it was based on more sophisticated technology than the armours it was replacing (mk2 & 3 armours were based on the technology available to the Imperium when it was still based in the Solar system, mk4 was developed from more advanced technologies recovered during the Great Crusade) ~ when the Horus Heresy broke out the legions hadnt been supplied with sufficient spare parts for the mk4 suits, and due to the technology difference their existing stockpiles of mk 2/3 parts were unusable meaning that even minor damage could render a suit of mk4 inoperable ~ mk5 was based on the mk4 design, but using as many mk2/3 components as possible so the legions could use their existing stockpiles..

 

of course the recent Horus Heresy art seems to have scuppered the old armour fluff (the World Eaters had mk5 at the time of Istvaan III, and the Salamanders* and Raven Guard had mk5 & 6 at the time of Istvaan V..)

 

*in their bloody POST HERESY COLOURS!

 

oh and one more thing, Terminator armour is not an STC design, it was designed by the Adeptus Mechanicus under the supervision of the Living Embodyment of the Machine God (aka the God Emperor of Mankind)

[Kastellan Kong]

Ok, sorry, I hadn't read that bit of fluff... ;) ...

 

Also, how can the Emperor have created something with the help of the Tech priests of Mars when the oldest terminator armour is older than he is? Or have they revised the fluff on the emperor as well? Fill me in on this please...

[Aurelius Rex]

The Emperor was born in Turkey in 8,000 BC. ;) (From the 1st ed Realm of Chaos sourcebooks)

 

He has been about since before the creation of Terminator Armour. ;)

 

But the Horus Heresy artbooks do mangle established fluff... you can never guess what historical re-write they are going to pull next. ;)

[Vodunius]

oh sod, note to self: read articles from front to back not vice versa, yes UK WD 304 claims that terminator armour predates regular power armour, and that regular power armour was actually designed based on termintor armour.. of course that is now and contradicts the whole mk1-8 armour fluff.. the original fluff was that it was being developed around the same time as mk4 (and mk5 then used a helmet based on one of the terminator prototype helmets)

 

oh and i tend to view revised HH fluff as rather good.. but then i was always pissed at the IA articles for changing the legions that joined Horus at Istvaan V.. (not all of them mind, the Iron Warriors IA still stated it was the Alpha Legion, Word Bearers and Night Lords) ~ but the Dropsite Massacre art SUCKS BIG EGGS

 

oh and another thing that pisses me off majorly.. i heard the new "How to Paint Space Marines" book had line drawings of power armour marks 1-7 'huzzah!' i thought "at last we can settle the debate as to which armour marks the 3rd edition imperial and chaos plastics are wearing!" so i get it.. and lo and behold, the lazy gits didnt bother to draw the revised armour* but instead just redrew the old RT variants instead.. meaning its pretty much useless (since why else would you want the damned drawings if not to identify your minis?)

 

*with the exception of adding a chestplate to the mk6

[Kastellan Kong]

The Emperor was born in Turkey in 8,000 BC. ;) (From the 1st ed Realm of Chaos sourcebooks)

 

How in the world could I have missed that one?? I've been playing this game since the mid 80's for crying out loud! ;)

 

Glad the Horus Heresy artbooks came along and changed it then because that's not the way I've always thought of the "pre-history" of 40K... Now I can just ignore this (for me at least) new piece of disturbing and uncofterble fluff ;)

 

Sorry, I know this post was off topic, but it's the first time I've ever been totally blindsided by fluff ;)

[Aurelius Rex]

@King Kong - Are you saying that the Horus Heresy artbooks have re-written the background and origins of the Emperor that has been a staple fact since the late 1980's? If so, could you give a reference / page number so I can fume in disgust at it. ;) I have the first HH artbook, but have not read it in detail.

[jimmythemoose]

And back tothe original question. IIRC there's a mention in the relictors IA of them arriving at a navy base and demanding supllies, which means marines may be able to requisition stuff. However, this is probably just due to the relictors being very relictorish.

[Ferrata]

And back tothe original question. IIRC there's a mention in the relictors IA of them arriving at a navy base and demanding supllies, which means marines may be able to requisition stuff. However, this is probably just due to the relictors being very relictorish.

 

That would make sense. I would go with the some have forgeworlds who have old treaties saying they will supply them with equipment, but if they need to they can just go demand it. Who wants to argue with a 7' armoured killing bunny? ;)

 

Ferrata

[Kastellan Kong]

@Aurelius Rex - Ok, changed it might not have been the right words, the HH actually just says that "his origins are unrecorded and unknown" (page 8, the great crusade). That's what I always thought. That no one knew. Also there is a bit about him on page 6 "the age of strife", the passage opens up a lot of interesting "origin theories"... but nothing that even comes close to a definitiv answer.

 

I just thought that GW hadn't elaborated on the emperors origins just to keep it mysterious, keep people guessing... Like why they've never said anything about the two missing SM legions...

 

Sorry again... This is totally off topic... and has probably already been covered in a diffrent post. Sorry... ;)

 

+EDIT!+ Ooooops! I sat down this morning and started looking through the fluff and tried not to be so narrow minded, to see if I might have missed something because I just figured that I knew the score... And lo and behold! What did I find... First try, the Emperor is OLD! Some 20 years of gaming and it's right there staring me in the face all along! Not only that but it's actually IN the HH book as well (page 36.)... So I was wrong, I can accept that. But I still think it's a really weak and quite stupid plotline... ;)

 

 

Soooo, back on topic. Most Space Marine chapters are not totally self-sufficient and would probably need to apply for supplies just as any other arm of the Imperial war machine (but probably at a higher priority rating than most).

But as for demanding something might not be the normal way of things. The chapters are powerfull with in the Imperium and so their demands would probably be granted, but they are not the Inquisition (who CAN make demands)

Granted, most planetery govs wouldn't dare say no... but IF a chapter has this as their main supply route, then they're called pirates and that's not a great label to get ;)