Japenese styled army

[Sanguinius Chosen Wing]

i have played to much Jade Empire of late and am fasinated by the weapons culture etc of the game i was wondering what traits i should use thanks

[Ferrata]

Well, Im dont know a lot about Japanesse History but heres the searchy result for samurai:

 

Samurai

 

Samurai

 

What I know about Japanesse History, honour seems to be a big part and so does martail combat, so Take the Fight to them for ccw and maybe restrict shooty weapons for the honour of combat.

 

Just wait till those who know more about Japanesse History turn up

 

Ferrata

[Ranulf]

Ah, the first thing to consider is origin and influence.

 

The game Jade Empire doesn't draw its inspiration from feudal Japanese culture - it's Chinese. (For the most part - some elements incorporate Japanese armour forms) You've got very different styles and themes at that level. I'd sort out which influence you're interested in before going any further.

 

Unfortunately, I know very little about any period in Chinese history and can be of little assistance. However, if it's the culture of feudal Japan that has caught your eye - I'm a veritable font of knowledge - so ask away. :blink:

 

-Ran

[Takeda-style]

Oh thank the emperor I thinks I've got here in time before everybody starts posting whatever comes up in his/her head! phiew...

 

 

 

Ok, samurai 101:

 

1) They started out as mercenaries, nothing more, nothing less. The word honour as such, is virtually interchangable with reputation for them. Afterall, the better your reputation, the more likely you are to be called on.

 

2) As a result of (1), samurai way of warfare was geared towards fighting in a way that showed skill. This was the way of the bow and horse. So forget about all the CC madness bull<DELETED BY THE INQUISITION>, samurai shot, and shot until they could shoot no more. And only then did they fight up close.

 

3) Samurai almost never fought with a katana/tachi (swords w blades about 2"-2"1" in lenght) on the battlefield. These swords were only used as a backup weapon. If you want to model weapons on an assault squad, give em chain-version's of nodachi/odachi and naginata (swords w blades about 3"-4" in lenght and polearms about 6" in lenght w blades on top). Don't go arming them with spears, that type of weapon has no use in marine style combat.

 

4) Samurai were smart, very smart. Forget about all the bull<DELETED BY THE INQUISITION> stories of honorable fights and challenging specific opponents. Those are all idiotically romanticised stories with no bearing on reality. Samurai fought hard and dirty. The were masters of ambushes and nightraids. Whenever they could, the'd take an enemy by surprise. Realise this when you're making up your strategies and army.

 

5) Also, forget about ninja. Again a lot of stories and smoke. All you hear about ninja, is simply what samurai already were and did. You can make ninja in your army, like scout squads and stuff, but don't go making stories on how samurai hate ninja and stuff, that's just foolish.

 

 

 

 

 

So If you'd want to field a truly samurai army, make a troops heavy army (no vehicle models at all if possible) or a droppodding army. Give all your tactical squads "thrust your battle brothers" for the true grit skill. Most notably, It'd be best to actually use bikes a lot (shooty bikes). Playing a samurai army means playing a shooty troops heavy army. Lots of infiltration is very good too (ambush galore), but how you want to do this (lots of scouts, or infiltrating tacticals) is up to you.

 

 

 

 

Hope you'll take this advice! - #1 Samurai Fanboi :blink:

[Plisken]

Oh thank the emperor I thinks I've got here in time before everybody starts posting whatever comes up in his/her head! phiew...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, since the roles, fighting style and general culture of the samurai changed considerably between the 11th century and the 19th I think that any generalization is both as useless and as valid as any other. Also, I don't think that the romanticised version of the samurai is any less valid than the historically accurate when it comes to inspiration for Space Marines... in the same way that the noble and chivalric gothic knights of western culture are good sources for inspiration even if they never really existed.

[Takeda-style]

Well, since the roles, fighting style and general culture of the samurai changed considerably between the 11th century and the 19th I think that any generalization is both as useless and as valid as any other.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

You be surprised, some changes were fundamental, but there weren't as many as you'd think. Besides, the traits and styles I posted easily cover all era's.

 

Don't take what I've said the wrong way. If someone wants to field a romanticised version of the samurai, that's always fine by me. What is important to me however, is that that person (and those who learn of his army) actually Knows it's romanticesed. I don't want to see people going around with mega cc armies calaiming "It's how samurai fought".

 

It's not the matter that it's not real, It's the matter that people don't know it's not real.

 

 

The thing on the board I most dislike is that many people have the tendency to call out something and claim it as fact, without even bothering to find out whether it actually is. I see this mostly when it comes to rules questions, where some posters just jump in and blurt out an answer to something and claim it's correct, while a quick glance in the BBB can already tell em they're wrong.

[ironloki]

Hmm I would go for a stereotypical style army (Simply because its the easiest to create fluff for and perhaps also create models)

 

In History there are inconsistences and no one can ever claim that this or that never happened (Which is why the exams are soo easy due to waffling ;) ).

 

I say that you throw up some of your ideas and then try to thread some real japanese history with perhaps some fictional stuff - more fun that way ;) I did this for my ptolemaic chapter as following the history exactly can be very hard and most of the time doesn't create the best basis for marines whereas if you drop in the odd unusual or stereotypical feature it can add a certain atmosphere to a chapter.

 

So what ideas do you have at the moment as that may dictate your traits ^_^

 

Also take Ranulf up on his offer as I bet he's bursting to put his knowledge to use ;)

[dragonking]

I have to agree with Takeda-style,

I majored in military history specializing in ancient warfare, and the Samurai were by no means the over dramitized honorable warriors that hollywood has made them out to be and especially as the class system grew and divided. Plus the whole ninja thing....smoke and mirrors...if your going to incorperate them definately use them as your scouts....for the record samurai and shoguns had no problems useing assasins to take there enemies especially if it could avoid wholesale war. so definately take all this into account unless you want to make the hollywood version then go for it...but do some research for yourself. As far as the no vehicles thing, I would disagree a little use bikes...would be like the horseback archers...good luck.

[Ferrata]

Sometimes it is easier to make a chapter based on the fictional (romantised) history than real history. With the romantised it is more plyable to a chapter, while keeping fully to history could be a struggle as sometimes Marines just dont fit

 

Ferrata

[Takeda-style]

Ah, forgot to clarify: Vehicle models = models with vehicle statlines and no ws characteristic.

 

 

For some expanded idea's:

 

If you'd want to go for an early medieval japanese style army, get many bikes. Also use marines with bolters and scouts with ccw's. Early medieval samurai armies (warbands actually) were made up of samurai on riding down on other samurai trying to shoot em from their horses. Footfolk fought in lose bands following their lords, attempting to distrupt enemy assaults and inconvinience the samurai on horse by pelting them with arrows.

In game terms, use your bikes for drive by shootings and target hunting. Use your bolter marines for ranged support and use your ccw scouts to tie up enemies who might assault your bikers.

 

If you'd want to go for a middle medieval japanese style army, use bolter marines and scouts the same way. Use less bikes than in the early med style army, and use 0-1 assault squads. Later armies used the same setup, but more samurai turned to fighting on foot, although many horsemen still rode. This period also showed the first signs of organised infantry squads/platoons and the advent of true 'shocktroopers' with melee weapons used to attack and break enemy spear formations.

In game terms, use your bikes, marines and scouts the same way. Use your assault squad to attack and break enemy movements.

 

If you'd want to go for a late medieval japanese style army, use much more bolter marines, lesser scouts, more assault squads and 0-1 bike squads. Late medieval armies used much more troops. The use of horses dimished and the use of shock infantry increased.

In game terms, keep your IC's on bikes. If you don't use bike squads anymore, use your bike-IC's to zip around the battlefield to support squads wherever needed. Footslog with bolter marines up the board and use assault squads again to disrupt enemy movement. Model your scouts as ninja's ;) and use em to target important enemy squads (don't forget to fully kit em out).

 

 

For the early style army, I would suggest the traits:

"Swift as the Wind" for lots of bikes.

"See, but don't be Seen" to properly ambush the enemy.

 

For the middle style army, I would suggest the traits:

"Trust your battle-brothers" for showing how they were just as good fighting at range and up close.

"See, but don't be Seen" to show how ambushes are still fun!

 

For the late style army, I would suggest the traits:

"Trust your battle-brothers" for showing how they still kicked ass, both ranged and up close.

"No mercy, No respite" to show how shock troops got more effective eventually.

 

 

Samurai's ^_^

[Dracos]

I have to agree with Takeda-style

I'll 2nd that motion. Having studied both Oriental and Western sword arts, I find the overly romantizied disinformation leaves too many people over-rating one and highly under-rating the other.

 

Bow was a great samurai weapon and although I agree True Grit fits nicely, I'm not a fan of it myself, but I'm a stingy b@st@rd when it comes to spending points. It definitely works better than Tac squads with BPs &CCWs.

 

As a modelling note you might try the Grey Knight halberds as your close combat weapons. If you have access to a number of chainswords cut them at the base and replace the Grey Knight halberd blade. It makes for a really nice 40k Naginata

[Sanguinius Chosen Wing]

thanks for all the posts know i am actually going to have to think really hard about what i am going to do ^_^