Tau Marines

[Takeda-style]

Oh Emperor!, they're multiplying :)

[Daeothar]

You're right! Let's get the frag out of here;! :)

[Tubal]

If you wanted, you could up the gothic-ness by having them constantly struggle with the pull of Chaos, since they might still have demonic voices whispering doubts in their ears. :)

Marines turn to chaos when they get too evil, this is what happens if they get too nice. :P I don't think the chaos angle needs any more room, one heresy at the time please.

A Khornate Tau marine army would be pretty out there though ;)

[Takeda-style]

A tau marine army is already extremely out there, believe me ;)

 

This is nearing the area of female-marines (wich are an impossibility in themselves).

 

 

 

 

@daeothar: Ok... you distract em, I'll run! :)

[Ferrata]

This is nearing the area of female-marines (wich are an impossibility in themselves).

General Idea makes this impossible, physically. While the Tau marines could be done. It might not be pretty, and it might not be the most fluff perfect idea, but it is doable.

 

Marines turn to chaos when they get too evil, this is what happens if they get too nice.

 

I'm with this. Marines are neutrul, and they go further chaos or further tau. Once they cross that line, they get kicked out.

 

Ferrata

[Librarian- Melechor]

I see how marines could ally with tau to say, fight a stronger, common enemy, but become/ join Tau? That is heresy. I don't like the idea, but its all yours, so have fun. :)

[Ferrata]

but become/ join Tau? That is heresy. I don't like the idea

Well, IG have joined Tau and been absorbed. & Marines have became heretics and turned away from the Emperors light. Putting these together, Marines could join Tau.

 

but its all yours, so have fun

 

The Key to DIYing. Its good if others like your work, but its better if you do

 

Ferrata

[Librarian- Melechor]

Well, IG have joined Tau and been absorbed. & Marines have became heretics and turned away from the Emperors light. Putting these together, Marines could join Tau.

It could be possible, i was just stating that i do not like the idea.

 

The Key to DIYing. Its good if others like your work, but its better if you do

 

Exactly what i said. :)

[neosonichdghg]

Yay! Well, the pictures are out and in about an hour I'll get them back and I can upload them.

[DraXaus]

Well neosonichdghg, I hope you're happy. You've made me turn into a hereitc too...

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/forums/...showtopic=81016

[neosonichdghg]

Pretty...One problem, though. The power armor backpack contains the power plant for the armor. Without that backpack, even a space marine couldn't function in full armor. Anyway, with any luck the pics of my guys will be up in a sec. Oh, yeah...how would that gun work? I mean, the action in a bolter is designed to smack the back of a cartridge with a firing pin. A pulse carbine is designed to focus an energy pulse. Oh well, to each his own.

 

EDIT: Nm, minor setback. No pics until at least tomorrow.

[Marshal Constantine]

If you want to take your chapter in the tau direction, just be aware that you will never be able to fully integrate with the forces of the Imperium fluff-wise. While many DIY creators care little for the fluff, you seem to possess fair knowledge of the Warhammer 40k universe. Therefore, you know that your chapter will be breaking away from the Imperium and will be recognized by the Imperium and its constituent components as traitors.

[Librarian- Melechor]

MC is right, you will be "shunned" so to speak. ;)

[Ferrata]

MC is right, you will be "shunned" so to speak

 

I believe "shunned" is probably an understatment. I would go for "Hunted down like the traitorous pig dogs you are" ;)

 

Looks at his Chapter

 

;)

 

*runs*

 

Ferrata

[neosonichdghg]

Interestingly enough, I made a copy of a certain Imperial declaration on my computer with a WH40k font I found while browsing. It lists the crimes of a certain chapter of the Adeptus Astartes, as well as officially excommunicating them.

 

YES I KNOW I'M A TRAITOR! If you notice, the Red Dragons have openly declared war on the High Lords of Terra.

[Aurelius Rex]

Very glad you have the Chapter as a renegade. B) The Adeptus Mechanicus would not supply them if they overtly use Xenos kit, the Ordo Hereticus will slam them for doctrinal Heresy, and the Ordo Xenos would want words with them too. This is nothing to the hassle they would get from loyal chapters who would be insensed by their actions.

 

All in all, plenty of plot-hooks to work into your writing. Much more satisfying than having them stay loyal by using the old 'An Inquisitor saw how effective they were in battle and classed them as loyal' deus ex machina.

 

I have a few comments about the chapter:

 

- The rationale for them going over to the Tau still seems weak. A nice extra push could be that in their vulnerable state they have been influenced by the Tau Ethereals. They seem to exert an odd aura over the other Tau, so the idea that the chapter is often acompanied by Tau 'advisers' who are keeping them mystically in line could work really well. I believe that this is an 'adversary' plotline in the Witch Hunters codex, so you would be covered from a fluff POV too. ;)

 

- It would be interesting to extend the idea into the rest of the chapter, for instance how it has affected their fighting style, organisation (what happened to the Chaplains, and for that matter the Librarians), and outlook generally.

 

- The timings of the chapter history is unlcear. It may not be a problem, bu the Tyranids have only been a known threat for the last three centuries, about the time of the last founding, and the Tau have only been seen as a threat in the similar kind of timescale. If these events that turned your chapter happened very recently, then this should be no problem.

 

- Rules clarification... are you using straight Codex: Space Marines rules for your chapter? Even if your marines used a modified bolter with tau tech, it would be better that they act in the game as bolters, and your opponent is clear what any odd looking weaponry represents before the game starts. This avoids problems at tourneys / game balance, and accusations that you are trying to fuse the survivability and close combat ability of the marines with the firepower of the Tau to create something that has the best of both worlds. However, considering the measured approach you have taken so far, I am sure that this was not what you were going to do anyway. :)

 

 

Keep up the development work. :devil:

[DraXaus]

Your chapter would have to rely on the Earth Caste to for technology. And your marines whould have to learn to operate their own vehicles. It would also be best if your chapter was space based...

[neosonichdghg]

I am using vanilla Marine rules. I experimented with additional units, like the BA and DA, but I had some problems coming up with anything balanced. In case anyone was wondering, Space Marines with Pulse Rifles cannot be expensive enough to be anywhere near fair. I tried that, Tac squads with gun drones added, and a few other things, but only a couple seemed fair enough to use. I am currently toying with the idea of allowing markerlights as wargear. BEFORE YOU FLAME, they would only allow a scatter dice reroll and 6" range increase for Whirlwinds. Nothing more. I am also considering using a few Tau vehicle upgrades, but that might not work out.

 

On the subject of more specific effects, I am rather obsessed with the idea of concept intergration. There will certainly be an update of the fluff at some point detailing how the rituals, training, attitudes, tactics, etc. have changed.

 

I do not think they need any more motivation for one vital reason. They are not going against the Emperor. They fight in the Emperor's name, and intend to restore his empire to the original ideal.

 

On the subject of equipment availability, the bolters are generally not altered at all. I would assume a spaceborne chapter would have a lot of spare parts available for their standard weapon, and it seems that the Tau would have problem repairing such a relatively simple device as a cartridge-firing weapon. On the other hand, less stable or safe weapons such as plasma guns and flamers in many cases have broken down completely and been replaced. The chapter's assault cannons for the most part have been improved with a more reliable Burst Cannon chamber system, reducing the risk of injury. This also allows them to use Tau ammunition, removing the issue of casings and graphite builup over time. Unfortunately, the union of technologies is not always perfect and the systems jam approximately as often as more standard models.

 

I'm not sure exactly when all of this happened, I'm never been very good with dates. However, it was apparently within the last three centuries.

 

Keep up the replies, very helpful stuff here!

[Lion in the Stars]

Gotta agree with Ferrata, plan on being hunted down like a bunch of rabid dogs.

 

Hmmm... too many interesting ideas here... must leave quickly!

[neosonichdghg]

Okay, to all of you who think I will be hunted:

 

Yes, I know. Actually, several Imperial forces have already attacked Gribaltar and been repelled with no small effort and some Tau support. At some point, however, a major offensive will be mounted. At that time, one of three things will happen.

 

First, the Imperium may launch a second Damocles Gulf crusade, attempting to destroy both foes at once. In this case, the Tau will work together with the Dragons to provide the bulk necessary for a victory, just as they drove the Imperium away during the first Damocles Crusade. The Tau will employ the same stunning tactics they always do, aided by the quick surgical strikes of the Dragons. Judging by their performance during the first military action against the Tau, the Imperium will be defeated.

 

Second, the Imperium may do the intelligent thing and assault Gribaltar alone, probably employing and Exterminatus if it is not sufficiently defended. The Tau would forfeit the world in the name of the Greater Good, protecting the rest of the empire. However, the Tau may also realize that they would be the next target, in which case

 

Third, the Tau would strike retalitorially (is that a word?) at the Imperium, striking the flanks of the massive fleet and catching them in a pincer from the worlds on either side. This would allow the Dragons and a support group of Tau to drive down the middle of the Imperials from Gribaltar, chasing them back out of the empire. The Imperium would almost certainly lose in such a streategically perilous position.

 

So, in the case of a full-scale assault on the Red Dragons, the outcome will be based on whether the Imperium follows their xenophobia or their strategic sense. And we all know how tenuous that balance is. Even if the Imperials follow the logical course of action, which is extremely unlikely with such a huge force (think of the mob mechanics behind such a group of soldiers, especially considering they would be led by an Inquisitor) there is a good chance the Tau will give aid anyway, and in such a position the Imperium would be in dire straits.

[DraXaus]

The fluff is comming along nicely, I hope to see a few conversions from you, and see what "you" come up with :)

[Guest Berevius the Justifier]

I WILL JUSTIFY YOU INTO :) NEXT WEEK!!! YOU ;) HERTICAL

;) OF :cuss :cuss !! With that bit of Dogma out of the way that is some pretty amusing stuff. love to see it when ya get the army done.

[Commissar Molotov]

One idea, regarding 'Tau marines':

 

For me, a large part of why marines are marines is the constant and substantial brainwashing and propaganda they endure. They're conditioned to believe they're the tools of the Emperor. That's why they'll fearlessly lay down their lives.

 

The Tau question is difficult... it could be argued that if a chapter's brainwashing was faulty that they could sympathise with the Tau, but it's not likely... if the Tau captured the marines the marines wouldn't go "Oh yeah, everything I've done has been a lie." but if a marine wasn't conditioned to be so xenophobic it's possible.

 

It could be reasoned that if a marine scout squad was captured on a mission, their brainwashing might not be as complete or as total as with a hardened battle-brother. It's possible that the Tau could... re-educate them.

 

If you had some marine scouts, and some dead marines' armour, you might then have 'Tau Marines'. However, as many as said, it would be something rather rare. I'm not sure I can see a whole chapter siding with the Tau.

[neosonichdghg]

Did you actually read the fluff?

[Commissar Molotov]

neosonichdghg, I actually find that quite insulting. Yes, I read through your whole topic. My post was in part an idea for those interested in 'Tau Marines' (other than you), and in part an idea that you might have been able to adapt.

 

However, if it suits you better, I'll critique your fluff in particular:

 

 

Two millenia ago, the Red Dragons chapter of the Adeptus Astartes were is the Gothic Sector after the consumption of their homeworld by the Tyranids. They were to recieve a new ship, the Dragon's Claw, allowing them to attack the enemies of the Imperium from anywhere in the galaxy. The Red Dragons were to become a spaceborne chapter, as the Dark Angels before them. They would travel from world to world, seeking out heretics and xenos alike and vanquishing them in the name of the Emperor. But first they had to learn how.

Two millenia ago (.M39) the Tyranid threat didn't exist. The attack on Tyran, and the subsequent Hive Fleet Behemoth occured in the 700s of .M41. You might want to consider altering it. If you chose another alien race, that causes problems. Your marines would only have been driven off-world if the world was uninhabitable (as in your situation). If it was Orks, for example, your marines would have fought until all of them were eradicated. If you leave it until later, when the Tyranid threat is much greater, then you have yourself a planet ripe for conquest, but your chapter would have sustained great losses. They would only have abandoned their homeworld if there was no other option.

 

This, however, sets your chapter up as one that detests the Xenos in all their forms. Aliens have just destroyed your homeworld, and that's something no chapter takes lightly. If, however, your chapter's homeworld was destroyed by the Inquisition, for example, then that sets your chapter up as a chapter that begins to have issues with the doctrines of the Imperium.

 

You need to have a clearly running theme throughout the whole of your chapter.

 

You mention "as the Dark Angels before them". Is that a reference to time, or that the Red Dragons are Dark Angels successors? It isn't made clear.

 

They trained for months, learning how to defend such a huge craft as the Dragon's Claw, both with fighters from the Dragon's Brood, smaller craft such as the Cleansing Fire and Serpent's Wing. They learned how to strike from the Warp, guiding their craft into gainful position and escaping before retribution could come. They learned how their foes would act in such a situation, and how to exploit their weaknesses. Their training was nearly complete when the planet was attacked.

 

Which planet? If they've left their homeworld, then which planet is this? If they've landed somewhere to train, or set up a new homeworld, you ought to make this clear. Where did they get fighters from? The Space Marines don't use fighters, relying instead on Thunderhawks to conduct aerial operations. Craft such as the Gladius and Nova are huge vessels that would dwarf the fighter craft that the Imperial Navy uses.

 

A Chaos fleet appeared and attacked the Marine battlegroup during a training exercise. The Dragons fought valiantly, but in the ned they were forced to flee in the face of a terrible foe. But the Warp was not a safe refuge. The daemons still lurking in the depths of the Immaterium flocked to the small cluster of ships and struck at the minds of those within. The psychic assault was too much for the vulnerable psykers of the chapter, and the miniature fleet tumbled through the Warp without the guidance of their Navigators.

'Vulnerable' psykers? Marine Librarians are amongst the strongest psykers in the entire human race. Besides that, human vessels have something called a Gellar Field (IIRC) that protects them from the warp. Warp entities are far more likely to enter an open mind than one guarded by the extensive rituals of the Librarians.

 

With regards to the Navigators, Navigators aren't actually psykers. They're simply mutants that can see in the warp. The daemons wouldn't be able to do much, and would likely be repelled by the Librarians. If the Gellar fields failed, all the marines would be vulnerable to daemonic possession. In fact, the vessel would likely be destroyed.

 

As the Marines flew blindly, the daemons unexpectedly pulled away. As the Dragons marveled at the Emperor's providence, they fell into a terrible warp storm. The Cleansing Fire was lost, and with it went a hundred and fifty valiant battle brothers. The other ships escaped, but with horrible scars. The Red Dragons returned to their daemonic tormentors with greivously damaged vessels.

 

I don't understand why the warp storm would have meant the Daemons leaving the ship alone. From what I can tell, the warp is rough and turbulent throughout. 'Warp Storms' are simply areas where the warp breaks into real space. Perhaps you could say that the Cleansing Fire was lost, and the rest of the chapter managed to break free.

 

After some time, the Techmarines coaxed the fleet back into normal space. Battered and broken, the Dragon's Claw, Serpent's Wing, Leviathan, and Dragon's Brood crash landed on a nearby planet, never to fly again. A check of the star charts revealed it to be Gribaltar, a Forge World devastated by Orks near the southern edge of Tau space. After some deliberation, the Dragons decided to attempt to repair the Dragon's Claw and Serpent's Wing, allowing them to return to the Imperium. Unfortunately, their plans were soon interrupted.

- Please, please, please don't call it Gibraltar. Gibraltar is a British colony in the real world. Change the name slightly, anything, but avoid the glaring real-world reference thirty-eight thousand years into the future.

 

Also, if it's a forgeworld, where are all the Adeptus Mechanicus? You don't make it clear. Presumably they've been forced off-world by the Orks, but why didn't they fight? How much of the world is devastated? You make it seem like a forge world that just happens to be empty. If it's empty, and the Orks aren't there, then the AdMech would be straight back to recover everything they could.

 

Gribaltar was attacked by a sizeable Ork force. The Red Dragons battled as none could have been asked, and made fields of Ork dead, but it was not enough. The green tides were driving back the brave Marines, and defeat was imminent when they were rescued by an unlikely ally. A small Tau fleet emerged from the background noise of the universe and attacked the Orks. In the confusion over this new development, the Dragons struck, and between the two forces the Orks were driven off of Gribaltar.

 

You make it seem that Gibraltar is attacked by an Ork force from off-world, rather than the marines are attacked by a force of Orks already on the planet. This could be explained better, I think.

 

The Red Dragons grudgingly thanked the Tau for their help, but refused the xenos' offer to join the empire. They braced themselves for the inevitable assault, but the Tau commander had seen enough battle. He led his ships peacefully away in search of more suitable worlds. The Marines realized that agents of the Imperium would not be so merciful, and thus were the seeds of heresy planted.

I doubt that would plant seeds of heresy, honestly. As I said before, marines are subjected to constant and thorough propaganda and brainwashing. They are religious extremists and fanatics to the worst degree. The Tau going away could more likely be seen as "The cowards run."

 

After centuries of work, the remnants of the Red Dragons blasted off from their impromptu homeworld and plotted a course south toward Macragge. But the beasts of Chaos were waiting for them, and this time the Dragons were protected only by cobbled-together warp shields. Their minds were subtly infiltrated by the more cunning monsters, and the doubts about the Imperium planted by the Tau were expanded by the probing tendrils of thought. Eventually, though, the Dragons escaped the Warp and arrived at the homeworld of the Ultramarines and, to the astonishment of the locals, identified themselves as the prodigal chapter and reaffirmed their loyalty to the Emperor. They were housed on Macragge while their ships were restored to peak condition, they recieved new vessels to carry the new equpment issued to them, and those battle brothers lost to the Warp and the rages of battle were replaced. And, when the time came, they went to battle in the name of the Emperor with newly swelled ranks.

 

Here is where the chapter's in trouble. I can see Tzeentch perhaps twisting their minds, but when they returned, Librarians would likely examine the chapter and find the 'seeds of heresy'. As soon as they're back under the Imperial yoke the chapter would be back into the brainwashing and conditioning that makes marines marines.

 

Those 'lost battle brothers' that are replaced would include chaplains, who would reaffirm the chapter's loyalty to the Emperor and primarchs.

 

A cult had taken root in a nearby Hive World. An Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus had requested support, and the Red Dragons answered his call. For six months they scoured the planet tracking down leaders of the cult and eradicating its follwers one by one. However, the Inquisitor finally declared the planet beyond hope and ordered an Extirminatus. As the face of the hive world was purged of all life, the Dragons wondered if such destruction was truly necessary. Although they convinced themselves there must be a good reason, the events over the next few years couild not be explained away. They fought Eldar and Tau that did not seem so evil, slaughtered countless innocents, and with each new atrocity fell further into their new belief. Clearly, something had gone wrong. The Emperor's ideal had been corrupted. Perhaps the whispers in the dark were right - perhaps the Imperium was not the refuge they sought. With a sense of disgust at the horrors around them, the Red Dragons fled to Gribaltar once again.

I can see the destruction of the Hive World as a pivotal event in the chapter's history. This seems far more reasonable to me. Much like the Celestial Lions, the senseless slaughter of billions is likely to evoke something in the hearts of most marines.

 

I would dispute that chapters would think that Eldar and Tau "don't seem so evil". The Eldar are capricious, malicious and malevolent. They toy with humanity, aiding them only when it suits their purposes. They cling onto life, a dying race, and seek to drag humanity with them. The Tau subvert everything the Imperium stands for.

 

It seems your marines say "The Imperium is not the refuge we seek, the Emperor's ideal has been corrupted." So they worship the Emperor, but see that the Imperium is corrupt and decadent. But the Tau Empire has no worship of the Emperor at all - why do the marines countenance it?

 

Also, perhaps you could say that instead of fleeing to Gibraltar, they made Gibraltar their homeworld. Especially with spending a few hundred years there repairing their vessels.

 

However, that brings up another problem. The Tau have only really been around for that few hundred years. The Damocles Crusade ended around the time of the Tyranids, so with the Tyranids destryoing your homeworld you have many timeline issues you need to resolve.

 

They were lost and confused for some time. What was left for them now, if the Empror's dream had been so destroyed? Chaos, the voices urged. And for a time the Dragons considered a turn to the forces of darkness. But then they remembered the Tau. After much deliberation, the Dragons set a course north to the fledgling empire and offered their services. They were soon accepted into the Tau empire, and they became the first unit of Gue'vesa marines. Since then, they have battled alongside their new allies and sought a way to rebuild the Imperium as the Emperor originally imagined it. Someday, they know, the Lords of Terra will fall and their corruptive influence will end. On that day, the Dragons may have to vie with the Tau to keep Mankind under its own control. But until then they will fight with their xeno friends, and each day come closer to redeeming the Imperium.

 

You seem to make chaos such an easy choice. "Hmm, we aren't happy with the Emperor, let's find another choice? Chaos? No, the spikes just don't go with my fashion sense. Let's go see the blue-skinned freaks."

 

Joining the Tau, and "offering services" just seems to go against everything a Marine is taught to believe. You need to reconcile their relationship with the Tau? Do they like them? Do they tolerate them? What do they truly think of the HIgh Lords? How is the Imperium not as the Emperor imagined it? What don't they like about the Imperium? Is it the Inquisition? What problems do they have, and why aren't they taking the typical marine approach? Why aren't they trying to sort them out themselves? Why are they waiting in the background, fighting the Imperium and killing innocent soldiers, aiding the Tau and causing the Xenos empire to grow?

 

Just some thoughts. I hope they help.