Tau Marines

[Commissar Molotov]

I'll concede regarding the forces assigned to the Damocles Crusade. I wasn't 100% sure on them, and I figured that it would be one of those "X Chapters participated, but we only named Y so that you can slot yours in". That said, if the whole of the chapter participated, it would drive it far above the "five provisional companies". So I think it's best that if the Dragons participated, that it be in secret.

 

I wouldn't be so sure that Dark Angels successors are by nature secretive. If anything I think that's nurture rather than nature. Again, my opinion.

 

Regarding the High Lords and their views on Dark Angels gene-seed:

The source of the Relictors' geneseed is largely based on gene stock taken from the laboratorium on Mars and is thought to be composed of that grown from the Ultramarine and Dark Angels. If this is the case, then it would appear that the High Lords of Terra's reluctance to sanction the use of Dark Angel's geneseed in the creation of new Chapters has relaxed somewhat.

 

Regarding the rules of disengagement, I am a BFG player, but evidently it seems your knowledge of the intricacies of stellar combat outstrips mine.

 

Regarding the Space Hulk, I simply feel that the "Big starship" angle has been done many times by chapters. What with them being a Dark Angels successor, and the Dark Angels going around in a large space-borne object, I just think it's a little too much of a clich

[neosonichdghg]

Hmm...I'm not sure about the Space Hulk either. I'll have to think about that one. One thing I want your opinion on, though. Since the Red Dragons area a spaceborne chapter, I have them as a very Techmarine-heavy chapter. I'm thinking that when they started running out of ammunition, weapons, vehicle parts, etc. the Techmarines and Chaplains would get together and form a Purifying Brotherhood or something. Basically, the Marines would take the Tau stuff they found to the Purifyers, who would then bless it kind of like the Techmarines do on Mars. The Marines wouldn't be allowed to use any xenotech whatsoever unless it had first been purified in this manner. This suggests some interesting missions where a raiding group has to evacuate a Rhino filled with captured xenotech so it can be purified back at their base camp. Or maybe getting a Purifyer to some kind of emplacement so he can bless it and the Marines can use the defenses. It would be fun to have Marines start out in a Tau base and have to defend it until the Purifyer gets there. After he's spent some amount of time in the base, they can use a bunch of Tau weapon emplacements and wondefully nasty things like that. Maybe I could do a big interior battle where, when you get a Purifyer into base contact with certain objective points, the Marines get new equipment and wargear. Like, maybe an XV-8 bay where they could get a Battlesuit or two. If that gets to be too unfair, maybe capturing the stuff just gets you extra VP.

 

Also, I have some fluff on my custom Scout squad I need you guys to check. It's not a squad of newbies, like most Scouts are, because there really aren't any in the chapter at this point. Instead, it's a unit of the most stealthy Marines who voluntarily don lighter armor to infiltrate into enemy territory and take out important targets like commanders (they use snipers - more on those in a minute) This particular squad is actually a group of very skilled veterans, and contains some of the most crafty Marines in the chapter.

 

They are led by Gregos Malovich, who is both among the most brilliant engineers and the best tactical minds in the Red Dragons. He is an extremely practical man, and has taken to the xenotech better and more quickly than anyone else. When he was offered his pick of soldiers for an elite squad, he collected a group of stealth masters and developed an entirely new kind of armor for them using Fire Warrior armor pieces. This new armor has an advanced optics system made from both Imperial and Xeno technology, a silent and cool (low heat signature) power system adapted from the Fire Warrior system, lightweight composite plates, and a truly marvelous kind of gel-pack boot which makes hardly any sound on virtually any surface. Malovich and his squad have become a force to be reckoned with. Few Tau commanders have ever heard or seen them, and even fewer will have another chance to.

 

Part of their mastery of asassination is the rifle Malovich and his fellows developed. It is constructed from a Pulse Carbine and a long Kroot rifle barrel and chamber system. The Carbine's failsafes are removed, allowing a massive charge of energy to build up in the buffer. The energy is then released, unfocused, into the chamber of the rifle, propelling a specially-prepared ceramite slug with astonishing velocity. The true terror of this weapon is that the sound is indistinguishable from a normal Tau pulse weapon's, making the sniper nigh on impossible to locate in battle. The rifles are ideal for long, drawn-out operations because they produce no waste and do not need to be cleaned as no powder is present to produce graphite buildup. A curious electronic scope is built into the rifle with a cord that can plug into the modified Fire Warrior helmets. The Marine can then see out of the scope regardless of where it is held, allowing vision around corners and over cover without exposing any vital or overly visible areas.

 

Phew. All right, what do you guys think? Malovich is probably my favorite character of any I've come up with, and he will probably end up with a whole lot of fluff behind him.

 

EDIT: Oh yeah, another thing before I go. I was thinking about the organization of the Dragons, and I came up with two important principles based on their situation. First, because they're in enemy territory, they need a very fluid system. Second, because they're all kind of veterans at this point and they function as guerillas, they should be organized into small units. Based on these principles, I propose that the Dragons would be organized with each squad considered a seperate unit. These units would be temporarily assembled into task forces for specific goals, and would be trained to work well with many different kinds of other sqauds. This allows for a fluid, swiftly changing system that remains tightly organized and easily directed even in the heat of battle. Since each squad is trained to operate autonomously, the commander doesn't have to worry quite so much if the troops are scattered (and they will be quite often in guerilla warfare). Even in the field, task forces can be easily rearranged as various squads hook up and work as a unit to accomplish their goal. Basically, even if a sizeable force is routed, they can simply splinter into countless individual squads that put forth both a nasty challenge to find and a difficult fight to eradicate as the organizations constantly shift into unpredictable forces trained to strike and melt away.

 

Following this plan, each squad has a name and a unique symbol that goes on the right shoulder pad. Tac squads are yellow triangles, Assault squads are dark green upside-down triangles, Devastator squads are blue squares, Terminator squads are red circles, and Scout sqauds are orange half-circles. The vehicles associated with a specific squad, such as Delta squad's Rhino or Zeus squad's Speeder, share the squad symbol. Independent vehicles such as my new Dreadnought (haven't picked out a name yet) bear a black gear, and Independent Characters bear a pentabon of silver stars.

[Tubal]

The new direction the chapter is taking is not bad... just not as interesting as the old one. It's certainly easier to get it working with the official fluff. :D

 

Tubal, I was under the imperession that the example youre talking about was a human cult allied with Xenos, which is quite normal and acceptable. I didnt think that the Xenos were allied with any of the Traitor Legions.

The Loxatl work together with the Blood Pact (IIRC) who are more of a LatD or traitor guard formation. There are mentions of chaos marines in the books as well, mainly in the earlier ones I think, but I don't know if they all work together. However, Kroot can still be allied with chaos and that's from the horse's mouth (the games developers).

[Warmaster Phthisis]

I like it neonsonichdghg. Seeing as the chapter was broken and splintered after the Tau ambush they would have to learn to rely on their field commanders to take the initiative, selecting targets and planning and executing missions to destroy them. This is quite a lot like the Alpha Legion operates, and how the Raven Guard and Blood Angels scouts operate as well. Veteran scouts make too much sense to not utilize them. In fact, these raids during campaign using Kill Team or Combat Patrol can be just as much, if not more, fun than the large scale battles. This kind of fluid strategy is absolutely necessary in order to fight the Tau as the Tau are geared towards rapid redeployment. Asassination is a very effective tool to use against the Tau as they are very dependent on their leadership. A dead Aun can send their entire army into a full panic or an uncalculated frenzy. Their veteran commanders rule with an iron fist, and once they are dead the Tau have no backup leadership, having instead to rely completely on their battle plan instead of the tactical and strategic corrections of their commander.

 

The equipment of the scouts sounds good, but might I suggest that instead of the modified Tau pulse rifles, they would more likely use the miniature rail rifles that Pathfinders like to use. Fluff wise, rail rifles are as slient as sniper rifles since instead of their projectile being propelled with explosive force, their ceramic slugs are propelled using a directional magnetic field. Fluff wise it makes a lot of sense, but game wise they'll be too powerful and I think you should just use the normal rules for sniper rifles. You'll find that if you start using the actual rules for the tau weaponry and equpiment that you model on them, it will be just as bad as taking marines as mercs with a Tau army. Every army is balanced in abilities, and if they excel in assault they arent so good at shooting, or if they excell at shooting they arent so good in assault. Marines with Tau weaponry excell at both, and their high BS teamed with the high strength of the tau weaponry means that nobody will be able to get close without taking massive casualties, and then in assault the marines will already outclass anyone. So there youve outclassed every army in both shooting and assault, and have the highest toughness of any army in standard troops and the best armor. Normally this would be extreme powergaming. If, however, you were to take one sqad of Marines armed with Tau weaponry and use the rules for them against a much larger Tau force in a special raid scenario, and make it hard for yourself, then it could be feasable.

 

As the use of alien weaponry is heretical and would be punished by the Imperium and the Ad Mech, I imagine that the Red Dragons would get the Ad Mech to bless their weaponry and rededicate them to the machine god so that what they were doing out of necessity wouldnt crate too much of a problem.

 

As for the space hulk, I was just trying to include your desire for a massive starship into the stroy. You can take it or leave it, but if you dont take it you need to figure out what happened to the other ships in the fleet. That shouldnt be too difficult though. If one of your battle barges got caught in the gravity well and crash landed on the planet then you could use that as a temporary fortress monastery, or the other ships could have landed on another uninhabitable planet and launched their rescue mission decades later to the sept world from there. So there is a lot of things that could happen that dont involve a space hulk but allow the same chain of events to occur.

 

Tubal, well, the only place that I have found so far that would suggest that chaos marines can use Kroot Mercs is in the Kroot Merc army list in american WD 265. And in that case its not so much that Andy Chambers said specifically that they could be allied, but rather did not specifically say that they could not be allied. It says that the Space Marines, Necrons, Sisters of Battle, Tau, and Tyranids cant use the Kroot Merc armylist in conjunction with themselves. This is back in 3rd edition though, so the list is obviously incomplete. I dont see the Daemon Hungers or Alien Hunters using Kroot Mercs either so this list needs to be updated and it probably will soon since the new Tau codex is coming out in a few months. I'm not sure as to wether Space Marines means both loyalist and traitors, or just the loyalists, but I think its reasonable to believe that it just means the loyalists. One thing is certain though, Kroot who take jobs for the traitor legions are doomed, if not just from proximity but because I'm fairly sure that when the campaign is over the chaos marines are going to slaughter them to a Kroot. If you know of any other fluff sources that specifically say that Chaos Marines and Kroot can ally, in terms of a positive statement, then could you point me to it?

[Tubal]

One thing is certain though, Kroot who take jobs for the traitor legions are doomed, if not just from proximity but because I'm fairly sure that when the campaign

[neosonichdghg]

Okay, now wait a minute. Rail rifles use ceramic slugs? Fired by MAGNETIC fields? Are you absolutely sure of that?

 

Anyway, it seems less heretical to get the Techmarines to bless the xenotech than just picking it up and using it. After all, that's part of the reason they don't use xenotech, isn't it? Because the Machine God doesn't like it? It's also going to be a really fun conversion if I use it.

 

Game-wise the new guns are just sniper rifles. There are a few reasons I'm using these instead of rail rifles. First, I'm not absolutely sure Imperials would be able to repair rail rifles. An unfocused blast of energy is much more their speed. Anyway, even if what they have breaks down there are plenty of scavengable pulse weapons. Rail rifles are a lot harder to come by. Aren't they even experimental? Second, having Scouts with Rail rifles would just be too cheesy for words. I did experiment with using actual Tau weaponry, but it's like I said. There is no points cost in the world that makes Marines with Pulse Rifles fair, and it didn't take me long to realize it.

 

I don't have any problem with having a fleet of smaller ships, especially bacause 1,000 people really isn't that many even with staff along. I'll probably skip the Space Hulk.

 

I know the chapter isn't as interesting this way, and maybe I can come up with some better supporting fluff at a later date to make the Dragons allied with the Tau. But I have to agree with the detractors. The story I have just isn't strong enough to justify such a chapter. So, for now at least, they'll work for the Imperium still.

 

Keep the comments coming guys, this is even more fun than I expected.

[Warmaster Phthisis]

Yup... rail rifles fire ceramic slugs using magnetism. I'm not sure what you were not believing there, but I think you were questioning the ceramics being effected by magnetic fields. All ceramics are just non-metalic materials created by shaping and then firing at a high temperature. Most ceramics are non-magnetic, but actually, most ceramics are magnetic. Actually, thats how they make magnets. There's some natural magnets like magnetite but those are very weak. How they make the magnets that they use on your refiridgerator or in science class is they create an electromagnetic field and then they superheat a non-metallic material nearby and then let it cool in the magnetic field, so that the substance is polarized. Rail rifles aren't just science fiction. A lot of companies and even engeneering and pysics students have been building them since the end of WWII. In fact, you can even purchase home rail-gun kits although theyre not weapons quality. The US military has been constructing a large rail rifle to use on their new stealth crusier to kill ships from extreme range.

 

As for being experimental in the 40K world, they WERE experimental but are not standard issue. They were experimental in Fire Warrior, but I think that Fire Warrior was historical, like during the Damoclese Crusade. At least, all the chapters that were in the Damoclese crusade were in Fire Warrior. That was long before the tyranids even had shown up, several centuries before present. But the rail rifles look cool and are longer than normal pulse rifles and so would look much better as sniper rifles than carbines or pulse rifles.

 

Scrapping the Space Hulk would definately make the story more believable. Go with the normal marine fleet.

[Havock]

Two millenia ago, the Red Dragons chapter of the Adeptus Astartes were is the Gothic Sector after the consumption of their homeworld by the Tyranids. They were to recieve a new ship, the Dragon's Claw, ....

 

hands off my claw! :D

[Commissar Molotov]

:D

 

Havock, do you have anything useful to contribute to Neosonichdghg's topic?

[neosonichdghg]

Well, here goes. The first part of the new fluff. Rip it apart as viciously as it deserves. Just...suggest ideas? I would apprectiate any help you guys could give me.

 

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The Red Dragons chapter of the Adeptus Astartes has a long and noble history. Since their creation from the noble seed of the Dark Angels, they have traversed the galaxy seeking out the enemies of humanity. They crush heretics and xenos as they go, purging the Imperium of the galaxy

[Warmaster Phthisis]

I love it! I absolutely love it.

 

I dont see any fluff problems and the story was wonderful. It gives the Red Dragons the dark and sombre feel of the Dark Angels successors. I could see GW writing a story like this themselves.

 

Bravo! I think this one's a keeper. ;)

 

Oh, and no problem. My pleasure. I love writing fluff. :D

[Commissar Molotov]

Neo, this is definately 100% better.

 

In your first paragraph you use Pacificus as a planet name (I think), with reference to standing their ground on Pacificus. If you were to change that name, you'd be better off. Also, there have been many invasions in Tempestus. Tempestus has never fully been cleared of aliens, so reference to a 'second Tempestus invasion' seems a bit of a misnomer. If you were to give Tempestus and Pacificus different names, you'd have what seems like a widely-travelled chapter.

 

You handle the fall of Kratol very well, actually. Perhaps you should expand a bit more on the "mass debate". Did Ryan confer with his company captains? With someone else?

 

Apart from that it's really good. It might be a good idea to write it up as an Index Astartes-style article.

[neosonichdghg]

Yay! I'm glad you like it, I'm really happy with it too. I'm working on some post-crash fluff, a good chunk will probably be done sometime today.

 

Problems...less than I expected. I changed Pacificus' name, and the event is now called the "Theta Tempestus Invasion". I want it to sound significant, but not galaxy-shattering. Basically, to have a name but not an extremely unique one, like it's happened before. Which it has. So the Theta Temptestus Invasion would be a major one, but not so vast as to call it something creative. I changed the wording on the mass debate slightly, I was trying to imply something like what the Ultramarines did. Basically, every marine gets a say. It seems to fit with the rest of their fluff, they're a very independent chapter.

 

Thanks for deeming it good enough for an IA. I probably will once I'm finished with it and hasve researched past IA articles some more.

 

Anyway, watch this space for more fluff!

[neosonichdghg]

Here we go! Yay! This is a piece from the new "Characters" section of my fluff document. I hope you like it, because this is probably my favorite character I've come up with so far.

 

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Gregos Malovich and Uziel Squad: Gregos Malovich, a particularly intelligent Marine, was called to Mars shortly after graduating from Scout status. He immediately departed to receive his new training, and his quick mind and adaptive thinking made quick work of what the Adeptus Mechanicus had to teach him. When he returned to the chapter, he was armed with a new knowledge of the Marines

[neosonichdghg]

I'm bumping this becaus I don't think anyone saw the update.

[Tubal]

I was on vacation, sorry ;)

 

Even though I liked the old fluff the new sounds really good. There are some minor points (most are taken care of already), where do all these tech-marines come from for example. They seem to have been a lot of them since the chapter was fleet-based but the first mention they get is that "countless Techmarines" suddenly get to work halfway into the story. ^_^ Also, even though the chapter was in a self-imposed exile, did they still send apprentices to Mars? It seems like any other contact with imperial organizations is kept to an absolute minimum so sending young marines all the way across the galaxy sounds a little out of character. On the other hand they may have a better opinion of the adeptus of Mars then they do of other organizations as they are not under the command of the High Lords of Terra.

A plot hook you could use otherwise is that while in exile they train their own tech-marines and after a few generations their ideology shifts slightly to be more radical compared to the mainstream machine cult. Read the article on Explorator warbands for inquisitor for some fluff about the mechanicus and the two different philosophies on Xeno-tech.

[neosonichdghg]

All right, I know this is a huge bump but I have two reasons.

 

First, I'm posting pics of my Dragons stuff soon and I want their fluff easily available.

 

Second, I didn't notice that someone finally posted. I gave up after a while.

 

Techmarines...yes, the reason they have so many is that they are spacefaring. They do still send recruits to Mars, but they do so in sort of mini-crusades. Basically, the Cleansing Fire would head off with a complement of defensive craft with a large bunch of Techmarines and new trainees. They would make the difficult jorney across the galaxy, battling any filth along the way and avoiding the Inquisition, until they arrived in the Terran system.

 

When the Tech Crusade got there, the Adeptus Mechanicus would train the recruits and debrief the Dragons Techmarines. This is most commonly when the geneseed was delivered. In exchange for the Crusaders' services, the Techmarines would shield them from the prying eyes of the Inquisitors until they were ready to leave and rejoin the chapter.

 

Remember, the Dragons only dislike the Inquisition. They have no problem with the other agencies of the Imperium, although they probably wouldn't get along very well with the Gray Knights. They generally avoid contact unless necessary, but only because the Inquisition is so annoyingly omniscient.

 

Anyway, huzzah! The Dragons are back, baby!

[Tubal]

You can get email notifications you know :devil:

[neosonichdghg]

Yeah, I almost did but I had that on Librarium Online and it's a real pain. Is there a way to turn that on now?

[Grand Master Raziel]

years couild not be explained away. They fought Eldar and Tau that did not seem so evil, slaughtered countless innocents, and with each new atrocity fell further into their new belief.

 

Feedback?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

-- The fluff could definately be worse. Could be better, but it's well written, and not too outlandish. I want to comment on this bit, though, specifically about the Eldar not seeming evil. Every piece of background material regarding Eldar that I've read makes them out to be so vicious, arrogant, and xenophobic that they make the Imperium seem fuzzy and cuddly by comparison. There's no way that Space Marines could be in prolonged contact with those guys and not come away with their hate for xenos reinvigorated.

[Tubal]

I think you're reading mk0.5 of the fluff <_<

Check out this post for the current version.

[neosonichdghg]

And don't miss Gregos! Cool guy, him. I don't know where Neo comes up with this...

 

oh, wait...

 

Check it out anyway. I need feedback on his story.

[ChaplainAnnias]

Holy :) thats some creativity! The background has progressed immensly since you first began, and now, IMHO, it sounds professional!

 

Just reading through these posts makes me want to throw away all my hard worked background on my Marines army and start again..

 

And the coversion ideas, ;)! I'm one for conversions (1500 points of converted marines :D ), but the ideas presented here are nuts! Keep up the work, and get some pics posted please!

[neosonichdghg]

Thanks! If you haven't seen it already, check the Painting/Conversion forum for a thread called "Nearing Completion". Everything on the list I'm totally done building. I have taken pics, and I can probably get the CD tomorrow.

 

YAY!!!

[neosonichdghg]

I HAVE PICS OF THE FIGURES!!!!

 

Check the "Nearing Completion" thread.