Tau Marines

[neosonichdghg]

Wow. Triple post. I really wouldn't do this but I have new fluff. Please welcome the esteemed Brother Tallarus to the head of the ranks.

 

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Brother Tallarus and Altmer

[Daeothar]

I like it. I would however change the period Tallarus has not lead his chapter personally in battle a bit. 3 years is not very long, I'd say a dozen years perhaps?

 

Also, you might want to expand a bit on the connection between Tallarus and the Obelisk; it's apparent but you might want a closer bond. Perhaps he saved it during the crash and protected it during their stay on the Tau world?

 

Looks like Domingo Chavez and Delta Squad will be next

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Woudn't Ding be better reserved for the Rainbow Warriors? :rolleyes:

[Tubal]

3 years is not very long, I'd say a dozen years perhaps?

For a space marine it's a long time to be out of battle for even a month. Add to that the period he has been mostly silent and you have a very reclusive chapter master.

[neosonichdghg]

I'm sticking with Tubal on the period he's locked himself away. For a Space Marine, that's a really long time. With the Lorestone, there's actually no special connection between it and Tallarus. It's in there so much to illustrate how important it is, and thus how important Altmer's Doctrine is if its at the top, and to introduce it into the story as a whole.

[Takeda-style]

Woudn't Ding be better reserved for the Rainbow Warriors? :)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

;) ROFL!

 

 

I think you might have accidentally found the reason GW every made the Rainbow Warriors!!!

[neosonichdghg]

I hate you all so much right now.

[Lion in the Stars]

Huh? 'Dingo' Chavez (that I'm thinking of) was recruited by the legendary John Clark. (Tom Clancy character from Clear and Present Danger)

 

Am I missing something?

[neosonichdghg]

Yes! All right already! I used Ding's name!

 

Dang, maybe I'll change it, but I haven't even posted that part of the fluff yet!

[Gator_of_Bahamut]

Well I finally made it through the entire thread. Phew! So much for finishing my fluff tonight, though. As you mentioned in the PM, neo, I won't open with some and-heretic excalmations, obligatory or not. I will, however, simply remind you of one bit of wisdom the Platinum Dragons persaonally favor: Victory require no explanation, defeat allows none.

 

I'm glad to see how much your fluff has progressed, except perhaps including Ding. Overall the basic outline is very good, I did have a few suggestions to make, though, and some ideas to put forward:

 

If your chapter uses so much stealth, I don't think large, single-color

geometric patterns for squad markings make much sense. They would make your Marines stand out even more. They could also make coordinating the various independed squads more difficult, as they would make it harder to tell one squad from another.

 

I assume Uziel squad is named for the inventor of the Uzi? I think the name doesn't fit very well, though, and especially shouldn't be reused. The modified pulse rifles don't make much sense either if you're looking for stealth. Not only would they give away a sniper's position, but they sound rather likely to malfunction and explode. If you insist on using them, I think the "gets hot" rule would be apropriate. Instead, why not have the Dragons capture a single railgun, and back engineer it to create their own? The concept is really pretty simple.

 

If you want Tallarus to be so plodding and patient, the sneakiness doesn't fit. By the time he got close to an enemy, the battle would be over and the Marines would have eaten and gone to sleep!

 

Your chapter's anti-Inquisition stance seems fine now, but their exile from the Imperium seems a bit sharp for the feud with just the one organization. I'd tweak it to say they simply avoided all contact with the Ordos and spent more time on crusade.

 

Now, just a few ideas I had that might make their diasappearance more interesting. How about they decide to strike deep into Tau space as you say, but instead of doing so merely to avoid the Inquisition, they also want to show them up by being the first to Bombard the Tau homeworld. I suggest you drop the bit about talling every bolt fired too, that's an inhuman task! It'd take them a millenium just to count that high.

 

Anyways, once the attack fails how about this: The Marines succesfully repelled the Tau fleet and capture a colony world, but most of their fleet was hevily damaged or disabled. Only a pair of Strike cruisers and a few smaller ships remain in fair condition. The techmarines decide to stay put on the planet for the time being, hoping that other crusaders would reach them. They salvage what they can, scuttle the hulks of their fleet, hide their fleet as best as possible, and dig in. Over time they are forced to scavenge supplies and eventually weapons from the Tau to replace what they expend. When no rescue arrives, however, they realize they must find a means to escape. Little do they realize that the High Lords, unaware of the daring plan to raid the heart of the Tau Empire, they have declared the chapter as Missing in Action and sealed their files. The Dragons thus pack up what they can to leave, but their Strike Cruisers have a problem: only one is still warp-capable, and the other has lost most sublight engines. The techmarines lash the two ships together, creating one functional ship, but one that is very slow. They are then forced to hop from system to system, the journey to Imperial space taking several years, with a great deal of scavenging raids along the way. (Yes, I know a rag-tag fugitive fleet is a bit Battlestar Galactica style, but I think it works.) Here's the kicker, though: The Red Dragons get so used to their pruified and modified Tau gear, they begin to PREFER it to their old gear. When they finally arrive home, they now have a problem - their most hated enemy within the Imperium considers them heretics for standing by the "unholy" wargear that has saved their chapter!

 

Any thoughts on that?

 

Btw, glad to see you and Warmaster Phishtittles or whatever getting along. :)

 

@ Daeothat et. al. - You all RAN from Tau Marines? In fear? COWARDS! Do you not see the sun eclipsed by our fleet? Hear the scream of our Thunderhawks and the roar of our drop pods? If the Red Dragons do not repent, the Platinum Dragons will see to it that they meet with a VERY warm ending. ;)

[neosonichdghg]

I use large, obvious heraldry because the Omnassiah demands it. Some things you just don't mess with. Especially in a Techmarine-heavy chapter. It's a fairly good way of organizing squads, the only time it would cause confusion would be in battle and then it's a simple task of "look around and see who's in the bundle with you".

 

Uziel Squad is not named after the inventor of the Uzi. It's named because it sounds cool, and eventually after a hero in the Red Dragons' history.

 

Why would the Pulse Snipers give away their position any more than normal snipers? They don't manufacture new weapons because they don't have the facilities, and also you ahve to remember Uziel Squad's biggest problem is spare parts. If something breaks down, they're usually so far behind the lines with such light equipment they have to scavenge something. Rail Rifle parts aren't going to be easy to find.

 

Yes, Tallarus is slow and sneaky. But he's the Chapter Master. You don't go ahead of your Chapter Master, fight, leave, and go sleep without him. That's a good way to get severely punished. If the Chapter Master says sneak, you better dang well sneak. And, after all, the Dragons view stealth as a time-tested strategy. They're going to be perfectly willing to sneak around as much as possible.

 

They weren't exiled, if that's what you think. They just avoid contact with the Imperium because they think (quite rightly, in my mind) that if they show up then the Inquisition will say "Hey, looky there! Haven't seen them in a while, what've they been up to?" And then come over and investigate them. Which is exactly what the Dragons are avoiding. I might be mistaken (no sarcasm) but aren't the Ordos part of the Inquisition?

 

Okay, first of all except for the bit in the beginning this is pretty much what I said, except extended into when they get off Gribaltar. The changes you made I have some problems with. First, why would the Techmarines with perfectly good ships not just leave and head east? Second, why would the Tau not notice a bunch of space wreckage floating around with Imperial markings on it? In my version, the ships all end up on the planet and the colony there is destroyed before they have a clue what's going on. Since then, the Dragons' stealthy tactics have prevented the Tau from figuring out what's on the planet, and eventually they gave up. Third, your scenario would mean the vast majority of the chapter died in the fleet battle if the fleet was mauled. Fourth, Space Marines using xenotech is a HUGE deal. It would require massive deliberation and something very much like my Purifying Brotherhood before they would even consider it, not "Hey, my gun broke! Ah, I'll just nick one of those. They're shiny." Even things like spare parts would have evil machine spirits attached to them, the Techies wouldn't let them near the chapter vehicles. Fifth, why would they think a rescue was coming if no one knew they were there? Again, why wouldn't they just pack up and leave if they could at any point?

 

I appreciate the help, but you have some problems to work out and some of the issues you've raised I already dealt with.

[Gator_of_Bahamut]

That was my main concern: in battle, a bunch of weird shapes may all run together and it will be hard to remeber somethink like is it 5 red circles or 3 that has the combi-melta.

 

Ok, well I just think it doesn't fit with your chapter's name scheme. A name like Uziel sounds Angelic or Demonic, and while your chapter is a DA successor, they don't play that up in their heraldry.

 

As far as giving away position, do pulse rifles not have muzzle flashes or visible projectiles? You also mentioned they make noise. A rail rifle firing would be slilent and invisible. A souped pulse rifle firing, I would imagine, could be both seen and heard. Those are the two things a sniper doesn't want to have happen.

 

I was joking about eating and sleeping before he got there. I just meant that the way you describe him, he moves like a rock. He's too slow to be of practical use on the front lines. Being slow and stealthy works sometimes, but you have to be able to react quickly, especially if you're exposed.

 

I know they weren't exiled, but you or somone else used the term "self imposed exile." That's still an exile. Other chapters just blow off the Inquisition, so I say do likewise instead of hiding from them. Yes, the Ordos are part of the inquisition, that why I say avoid THEM, just not any other part of the Imperium.

 

Who said anything about massive deaths or wreckage? I simply meant that the battle barges and much of the fleet were disabled and damaged beyond repair. The Marines would have to evacuate them if they didn't want to just drift along. The few remaining ships would not be enough to readily transport the whole chapter, though, and they would need repairs. Thus a skeleton crew would hide these ships nearby and effect repais, while the rest of the chapter assaults the planet to get supplies like food and water. The disabled ships, like I said, would be scuttled. Either blown up completely or sent towards the system's sun. In your version, many of the Marines crash land on the planet. NOT stealthy! When a ship as a battle barge hits a planet, the people notice that happening! It may not be a "global killer" but it would create a HUGE blast, and I doubt anyone for many miles would survive. The crew would likely be vaporized on impact.

 

In my version I fully intended for you to have the techmarines purify the gear first, I just didn't want to be redundant about saying it. The idea was, though, that since a crusade was going on, the Dragons hoped another chapter would reach them in time. This seemed like a better idea than taking a risky and dangerous trip in claptrap ships that were barely running. They couldn't have left immediately anyways, since the Techmarines would need time to repair and ready they few ships that were still somewhat functional. So instead of floating in space, the chapter decided to try and capture a planet. This would give them more resources to work with, and should allies arrive, they'd have something to show for their efforts. When nobody showed up, they assumed the crusade had stalled or gone elsewhere, and decided it was worth it to risk travelling in untested, overcrowded, and barely functioning ships.

 

OK, think that clarifies things. I guess I assumed you knew that most of my suggestions merely overlapped your latest version.

[neosonichdghg]

With the rifles: Yes, the Rail Rifles would be ideal. It's just too dang hard to get your hands on one, though. Think about how many Pathfinders would be sent down to a backwater world with some mysterious terror on it? That's not something you risk your most expensive troops on. With the sound...Just add a suppressor. It would make some sound, but not a ridiculous amount, and thats something todays snipers deal with too. A certain amount of sound, at a long enough range, is not really extremely helpful in pinning down where the firer is.

 

But mainly, you just can't find enough Rail Rifles to depend on if one breaks down. Pulse and Kroot stuff, though...

 

With the symbols: It's not that complex. There aren't special symbols for roles within the squad, just the overall squad symbol. And when you consider that there will hardly ever be more than two of the same kind of squad in the same task force, it's not really that hard to tell them apart.

 

With the squad name: They really aren't all too concerned with how the name sounds. In their mind, it's just the name of a great hero. It's like Lion El'Johnson. No one said "hey, that ain't right! We're angels, not lions!" My chapter just has a habit of naming squads after heroes sometimes.

 

Tallarus can move quickly. He can move extremely quickly. He just prefers to be in the perfect position when he does so. Imagine someone who scans the battlefield, thinks for a minute, and then orders his men all over the place to strategic positions. Then, when the battle is joined, he bursts out of cover behind a big group of enemy and puts a blade in their backs before they realize what's going on. Altmer's Doctrine says "never to haste", not "never to speed".

 

The Marines weren't stealthy when they landed. They just all crash landed in the smaller ships. The big one, the battle barge, was already destroyed. The others could probably coax enough out of their engines for a crash landing. The idea is that the event was lost in the overall chaos of the crusade, and the isolated Tau colony was overwhelmed before they realized what had happened.

 

I see what you're saying now, but I still like the "stuck on the planet" version better. The thing is, our two ideas really aren't all that diseperate, but if the chapter were stranded they would be more desperate and more likely to turn to something like scavenging xenotech. If Space Marines had ships, even heavily damaged ones, especially ones with large stocks of food on board (they were a spacefaring chapter) they would never consider messing around with xenotech. They would prefer to take their chances with the claptraps.

[Tubal]

With the symbols: It's not that complex. There aren't special symbols for roles within the squad, just the overall squad symbol. And when you consider that there will hardly ever be more than two of the same kind of squad in the same task force, it's not really that hard to tell them apart.

Besides, they are Space Marines, they have photographic memories ;)

[Gator_of_Bahamut]

Ok, I give on the symbols, If you're not going to see much dunplication in a task force it could work.

 

The rail rifles, though, I don't think you understand: The Marines would only need to FIND one. Any Techmarine worth his servo arm could back engineer one and reproduce them easily. Rail guns are dirt simple technology, the only trick is having a proper power source. That should not be an issue for an SM chapter, even one in dire straits. Which do you think the borthers would prefer to use too: a weapon so simple that most Salamanders battle brothers could build one given a free weekend, or some jury-rigged bit of unproven xeno tech built with Jawa-like finesse?

 

I think you're perverting the perspective a bit for the names. I meant that as somone else reading your fluff, it doesn't fit. The DA Primarch is a bad example too. His name is clearly a corruption of Lionel Johnson. I'm gussing somone at GW had a friend by that name, assuming he wasn't named for an employee.

 

Well, do what ya like with Tallarus. I think he just doesn't fit in with the style of your army.

 

I think you're getting a funny idea of a crash landing. Imperial capital ships don't fly like a plane, and reentry into an atmosphere would turn them into superheated hunks of metal that would vaporize on impact. The same thing happens with asteroids. Trust me, I'm trying to apply some real physics here. The only members of your chapter that would survive that landing would be those who had evacuated into drop pods or thunderhawks. The crash would also expose your position to the Tau, and they would concentrate their forces for a massed assault. I don't think they'd consider Marines a "mysterious threat" either. Fellow tow would have spread word of the Damocles crusade, so anything Imperial would be a priority target for the Tau Empire.

 

I tried to make my fluff similar to yours since I liked a lot of it. The problem with your chapter being stuck on one planet is this, though: they CANNOT fight anyone BUT Tau! How are you going to explain it if your friends want to field a Chaos force? They just randomly stumbled into Tau Space and attacked a world at random? Marines NEED to be a mobile force, otherwise they are sitting ducks. Who says Tau wouldn't just evacuate the planet and perform their own exterminatus for the greater good? If thewir scanners were good enough to detect your fleet so easily too, why can't they find your Marines' camps and vehicles? I tried to create some fluff that would strike a balance that would make your Marines desperate, but not trapped in one place as targets. They are able to escape...but only slowly. With ammunition, supplies, and spare parts running low, they need to raid Tau worlds to survive.

[neosonichdghg]

Ah, maybe the Rail Rifles would work. I'll think about it. I'm kinda stuck on this squad, I already built them, but maybe the next guys will have rail weapons.

 

I don't really see why having a squad called Uziel is such a problem.

 

How does Tallarus break the army theme? I mean, the only theme they have at this point is that they're guerillas. Slow to infiltrate, quick to strike, and then melt back into the shadows. That's even what they used to do in their fleet.

 

The way they got on the planet is kinda growing on me, I'll admit. I do have a few problems with what I wrote. You may see your version instead in the update in a day or few.

 

EDIT: I'm not going to be able to get on for a few days. Don't expect any replies for a while.