Helljumpers Chapter

[Demaroth]

Well, after much lurking I finally decided to make a post; I figured my first might as well be looking for C&C on my DIY Chapter. :D

 

So, a few comments first: I started out playing SM as Raven Guard, but eventually reached the point where I wanted to make my own Chapter, but still be stealth/tactical - it's just my play style. I figured the RG can't be the only SpecOps-style chapter out there, so I thought about how to make my own. I loosely envisioned them similar to modern US Marine Force Recon/Navy SEALs, basically.

 

After reading this, please feel free to make any C&C; I could also use some help deciding on colors and logo. Right now, I was thinking a dark grey for the majority of the body, except for helmet, gloves, elbow pads, shoulderpad trim, boots and backpack in black. See example here. (The colors are kinda washed out - dark grey should be black, light grey is dark instead.) I was also toying with the idea of using urban camo patterns on the arms (not pads) and upper legs, but not sure yet. The best idea I've come up with thus far for a logo is a skull on a spade, which is a Marine Force Recon logo - and Griffon Games already has a template made. :D Any advice as to colors and/or logo would be greatly appreciated as well!

 

Thanks,

 

- John

-----

Helljumpers

 

Battle-cry: Primoris in Abyssus (First into Hell)

 

Origins:

 

<Founding fluff being re-vamped - see below posts. ^_^>

 

The origin of their Chapter name is not known, but several stories exist. One story is that when being dropped by Thunderhawk into Tyranid territory, a Sergeant yelled to his squad,

[Ferrata]

A Couple of points. First, there is a bit of lee-way with Ultramarine 2nd founding chapters, but its generally better to stay clear of them. I would change them to a later founding, maybe 3rd at the earlist.

 

Delete the traits, just the names will do.

 

Ferrata

[Einsatz]

I like the idea. I would however get rid of the descriptions and points cost for your traits :D It's frowned upon here.

 

Why the limited chapter size? you might also want to change the second founding idea a little. But, that's up to you it's your army.

 

better days.

[Commissar Molotov]

-> GW has only named fifteen or so of the 23 successor chapters to the Ultramarines. You can certainly slot the Helljumpers into the second founding, but it's generally frowned upon by people as the second founding is fairly well-documented by GW.

 

-> Rumours of the Weregeld haven't surfaced. From the Raven Guard IA article, the Space Wolves rarely speak about it, and I doubt Guilliman would have heard of them. I don't think it's fair to say that Guilliman didn't trust Corax, either. Also, with the fuss Guilliman made over the codex, I don't think he'd seek the creation of a chapter that would disregard the codex and specialise in sneakiness.

 

-> Why were the Helljumpers restricted to such small sizes? There seems nothing to justify why, ten thousand years later, they're still only at four and a half companies.

[Demaroth]

Thanks for the quick input. :D

 

1. Yeah, I screwed up on the Founding generation - whoops. I'll fix that, by saying the High Lords didn't do it right away... they waited a few generations.

2. You know, I honestly don't know why I said they weren't at full strength... removed references to that - chapter is now at full strength. Chalk this up to a brain fart.

3. Removed details on the traits. I just copy/pasted this from a Word article I typed up and forgot to edit it down. ^_^

4. Removed the references to distrusting Corax & the Raven Guard. For some reason, I thought the IA article was giving fluff on rumors; on a re-read, you all were right. Changed to Roboute just wanted to have a similarily-tactical Chapter to add more tactical-expertise to the whole SM armies, so it didn't lay on just the RG. (Much like each branch of the military has their own SpecOps group.)

 

No comments on colors/logo though?

 

- John

[Einsatz]

I say for colors, dull the normal marines down. Red, blue green are great for instilling terror in the enemy. For sneaky marines, I'd go graveyard eart or commando khaki. Symbol? Can't go wrong with the original "skull and dagger" from the US special forces, the SAS winged sword (who dares wins) or even the FFL winged sword. I just noticed how many special forces units in the world use the wing and sword for the signs. Odd isn't it :D .

 

Better days.

[SGT. Smilez]

When I first read the name of your chapter, I immedietly thought of a color scheme sort of like you see on a space shuttle entering through the Earth's atmosphere.

 

Maybe you could make their legs red and then blending in orange untill it's totally orange an then progress to an ash grey color.

[neosonichdghg]

That would be really cool if you can pull it off, but beware trying it on a whole army.

[Ivoracle]

If it were me (which it's not), I'd try not to have Guilliman directly involved in their founding. Not only is there a question of why he'd make a non-Codex chapter after coming up with the Codex in the first place, but it also seems a bit presumptuous (to me). There are plenty of ways to make a chapter's origins unique and interesting without having to tie them directly to one of 40K's major heroes.

 

Of course, do what seems most fun to you.

[Einsatz]

I was thinking about this army today.

 

What are your plans for getting them to the battle field? I was thinking that helljumpers would probably be a drop pod type force but I wasn't sure. That's just fluff though. The starship troopers book comes to mind. Individual drop pods fired from orbit and deployable grav shoots. Might not make a differene in the rules, but could be used to beef up the fluff and add strength to the name.

 

About painting the force. I was thinking about "cheesecloth" or small medical bandages (gauze). Scraps of this brushed down with white glue would make awesome camo, almost like a ghille but not so severe.

 

just some thoughts.

[Demaroth]

Sgt. Smilez: Very nice, slick-sounding idea. However, I agree with Neosonichdghg... Too tough to do for a full army. Maybe I could do that for a few groups, like Assault Squads or Dreadnoughts. I'll also have to see if my painting skills are even good enough to try that. I still have problems with just plain white. ;)

 

Ivoracle: I know where you're coming from about attaching it to Guilliman. I wanted to have a strong connection/tie to the Ultramarines, and that seems the easiest way; I'll see if I can come up with another way, but it may just stay this way for now. As far as Roboute wanting to found a non-Codex chapter, if he's the supreme tactician he is reported to have been, he would know that sometimes a small, tactical force can do what a large mass force cannot. The Codex is his main focus, and he would view that most Chapters should follow these tenets, but sometimes there is cause/reason for deviation. If you make a force to general in approach, you over-generalize and can't do small things well. But you also can't over-specialize, either - that breeds weakness. You have to strive for a bit of both, and that's how I wanted my army to be founded. :lol:

 

Einsatz: My army would be a mix of Infiltration and Drop Pod/Deepstriking; Scout, Devestator and Veterans would usually Infiltrate, and Tacticals would Infil/Drop Pod, depending on the situation. Assault and Land Speeders would Deep Strike or start as normal. Command Squad would likely start as normal with a transport, but I planned on having a Chaplain with a jump pack to attach to an Assault Squad. I've been doing something somewhat similar (less infil, of course) with my Raven Guard for the last year and a half, and it's worked fairly well thus far. Tactical and Veteran Squads would also have True Grit for the extra CCW.

 

I liked the Sword w/ Wings as well, but I was thinking its too similar to the Dark Angels, so I had discounted it. The Sword & Skull's not too bad, either. I'm toying with seeing how I can get your Graveyard Earth/Commando Khaki to look (using GW's interactive painter) and that might be a doable. I'm still leaning towards my initial Grey/Black urban camo look, but I was/am hoping to get away from the grey/black colors, if possible. ^_^ I was also thinking maybe about doing a scheme similar to the Salamanders, except using a darker (more camo) green.

 

Thanks for the continued input - I appreciate it! :P

 

- John

[Commissar Molotov]

Ivoracle: I know where you're coming from about attaching it to Guilliman. I wanted to have a strong connection/tie to the Ultramarines, and that seems the easiest way; I'll see if I can come up with another way, but it may just stay this way for now. As far as Roboute wanting to found a non-Codex chapter, if he's the supreme tactician he is reported to have been, he would know that sometimes a small, tactical force can do what a large mass force cannot. The Codex is his main focus, and he would view that most Chapters should follow these tenets, but sometimes there is cause/reason for deviation. If you make a force to general in approach, you over-generalize and can't do small things well. But you also can't over-specialize, either - that breeds weakness. You have to strive for a bit of both, and that's how I wanted my army to be founded. :lol:

 

That suggests that one chapter can just easily call up another. The idea is that all chapters should be self-contained and prepared for nearly all operations. They can't just call up the Helljumpers, or put the batman symbol into the sky. Cooperation between chapters can be difficult, and rather than considering all the chapters to be units in a huge Imperial Army, you should consider each chapter to be armies in their own right. Cooperation cannot be guaranteed. Perhaps the Helljumpers started out codex but circumstances forced them to alter their methods?

[Einsatz]

To be honest I like the sound and look of the grey and black. It could depend alot on the battle field though. Most games I've played take place in the most beautiful meadows and pastural grasslands ever seen :lol: . So, a grey/black army would really stand out. But, when all is said and done, it is your army.

 

Better days.

[Demaroth]

Commissar Molotov: Very good points, I hadn't looked at it like that. I'll have to see if I can come up with a reason they would have altered their tactics like that.

 

If I can come up with something, that would also take care of removing the direct link with Guilliman as well, solving two problems at once. Now I just have to think up a new idea. :lol:

 

Einsatz: Yeah, it really does depend on the field; my friends and I have been playing on red/black boards, and doing some Cityfight lately, but we did forest/grasslands to start. My friend and I (being the two terrain makers) are thinking about trying to make some jungle boards as well.

 

... And none of that info helps narrow down the color choices any. ^_^ Ah well, maybe I'll do a demo model of the grey/black scheme tomorrow and see how it comes out and then go from there.

 

- John

[Commissar Molotov]

The most obvious reason for a chapter to adopt sneaky tactics is if at some point they were reduced in numbers very sharply. In an effort to reduce casualties, the Chapter Master ordered them to adopt sneaky tactics. It worked so well that even now after the Chapter has built itself back up, it's kept the "quick-in, quick-out" tactics.

 

Perhaps then the name could be a reference to the Chapter Master saying "I'd rather be the first to jump into hell than let the chapter crumble and die"?

[Demaroth]

The most obvious reason for a chapter to adopt sneaky tactics is if at some point they were reduced in numbers very sharply. In an effort to reduce casualties, the Chapter Master ordered them to adopt sneaky tactics. It worked so well that even now after the Chapter has built itself back up, it's kept the "quick-in, quick-out" tactics.

 

Perhaps then the name could be a reference to the Chapter Master saying "I'd rather be the first to jump into hell than let the chapter crumble and die"?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Damn, you've got a great (and quick) imagination. Wish I was that good. :lol:

 

I don't know anything about any of the xenos campaigns, but maybe their warship was shot down upon entering a system, and the surviving companies had to survive and find a way off of the planet(s), cut off from any reinforcements?

 

I also like your modification of the naming reference... Let's keep brainstorming. ^_^

 

- John

[Commissar Molotov]

Let's keep brainstorming. ^_^

 

I'm game if you are. :lol:

 

The best thing to do would be to avoid a major GW-sponsored Xenos-involved alien campaign. Create your own campaign where the Helljumpers could be worn down to near-oblivion.

 

Your idea is a sound one, if a bit... ordinary. I guess that's because of Neosonichdghg's chapter - they were shot down and fought against the Tau for a while with no reinforcements.

 

Perhaps something different? Perhaps the chapter was attacked rather than a campaign that went wrong? I'd avoid the clich

[Einsatz]

Are you going with a 8K-9K year old chapter?

[Demaroth]

Let's keep brainstorming. ;)

 

I'm game if you are. :P

 

The best thing to do would be to avoid a major GW-sponsored Xenos-involved alien campaign. Create your own campaign where the Helljumpers could be worn down to near-oblivion.

 

Your idea is a sound one, if a bit... ordinary. I guess that's because of Neosonichdghg's chapter - they were shot down and fought against the Tau for a while with no reinforcements.

 

Perhaps something different? Perhaps the chapter was attacked rather than a campaign that went wrong? I'd avoid the clich

[Demaroth]

Are you going with a 8K-9K year old chapter?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Right now, I've got it set that they were created during the 5th Founding, but that is certainly not written in stone. It'll probably change before all is said and done, but we need to give it enough time to have the Chapter recovered to full-strength.

 

- John

[Commissar Molotov]

That sounds good to me. A chapter thrives on pride and honour. An attack against a marine homeworld is one thing that is sure to provoke anger. The Helljumpers would have done everything they could to defend against the Orks. That means heroic last stands, huge explosions, the works. Presumably their homeworld is now trashed.... but perhaps they still live amongst the ruins of the once-thriving culture? Could be quite eerie. But after so many marines died to protect the planet, no reason in just relocating. Perhaps they now recruit from other worlds, but keeping their base on their homeworld seems cool to me.

 

New recruits are taken to this ruined planet, shown what aliens can do, in an attempt to drill the importance of their duty into them. A stern reminder that the marines cannot allow themselves to submit.

[Demaroth]

That sounds good to me. A chapter thrives on pride and honour. An attack against a marine homeworld is one thing that is sure to provoke anger. The Helljumpers would have done everything they could to defend against the Orks. That means heroic last stands, huge explosions, the works. Presumably their homeworld is now trashed.... but perhaps they still live amongst the ruins of the once-thriving culture? Could be quite eerie. But after so many marines died to protect the planet, no reason in just relocating. Perhaps they now recruit from other worlds, but keeping their base on their homeworld seems cool to me.

 

New recruits are taken to this ruined planet, shown what aliens can do, in an attempt to drill the importance of their duty into them. A stern reminder that the marines cannot allow themselves to submit.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ooh, that sounds good! :lol:

 

And if I make it a somewhat/mostly-industrialized planet, that would give a good (generally) reason why they have adapted to a grey/black (urban camo) color scheme.

 

Any suggestions on time frame for original founding and that of the homeworld invasion?

 

- John

[Commissar Molotov]

And if I make it a somewhat/mostly-industrialized planet, that would give a good (generally) reason why they have adapted to a grey/black (urban camo) color scheme.

 

No need to really, whilst they would be based on this ruined world (it's now totally safe, no aliens nearby) they would fight elsewhere, so you can have the Helljumpers with any base and camo-cloak schemes you like.

 

As to the founding, it depends a few factors:

 

1: How old you want the chapter to be. Newly-founded? Old?

2: How long ago do you want the Ork Invasion to have been? A new wound on the chapter, or an old scar?

[Demaroth]

As to the founding, it depends a few factors:

 

1: How old you want the chapter to be. Newly-founded? Old?

2: How long ago do you want the Ork Invasion to have been? A new wound on the chapter, or an old scar?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, I honestly don't have a huge preference for age of the Chapter or the Ork Invasion - as long as it gives enough time between then and now to have fully re-formed the Chapter... But let's say an older-middle founding Chapter with and non-recent timed invasion (not recent, but not old either).

 

- John

[Bramble]

Can't go wrong with the original "skull and dagger" from the US special forces, the SAS winged sword (who dares wins) or even the FFL winged sword. I just noticed how many special forces units in the world use the wing and sword for the signs. Odd isn't it :tu: .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Because they all modelled themselves initially on the original WWII SAS founded by David Stirling in North Africa from the Long Range Desert Group of the British army. Stirling used the winged dagger as the symbol of the new 22 regiment Special Air Service.

 

Another option would be the British Airborne symbol of Bellerophon on his flying steed(Griffon or Dragon,can't remember) as they seem to have a predilection for assault jumps.

 

I like the black/grey urban scheme. I don't think matching your scheme to terrain is that important. My DIY have red/orange/brown scheme and green bases to match boards,my guys definitely stand out and catch peoples eye!

 

Using reduced chapter strength as a reason for tightly focused attacks works just fine for fluff reasons.It seems like you have thought this idea through,nice to see such a strong idea behind a DIY chapter.