a DIY idea

[Einsatz]

OK, I just finished a really good bok on the templars. It has led me to believe that the BT are more based on "the order of St. John" than on the knights templar.

 

So I propse....

 

A marine chapter in which the elite/command/termie squads are chosen from the royalty (upper class) of a planet and the troops/fast attack/heavy choices are from the lower class (I love hive scum!). has this been tried before? it sounds like a good idea to me, but I'd like some kind of input before I barrel into it.

 

Thanks. Better days.

[ironloki]

Well they are more based on the Teutonics than the hospittalers ;)

 

Sounds not bad but ranks are usually given out to ability and not class - otherwise that leads to the "lions led by donkeys" problem :rolleyes: .

 

My chapter masters advisor (Librarian) has come from the same family bloodline since the original founder. You could have it that the "royal family" has had a history of Psychics - that way the Royals/upper class are more likely to be specialised.

 

A nice idea but I think that the upper classes would be better off put into the specialists - Chaplains for devout families, Librarians for physics, Apothecaries - for those specialising in surgery/medicine etc.

 

Just an idea ^_^

[Einsatz]

I admit my impression of the BT is mostly from the uniform colors. :rolleyes:

 

I am not saying the status is given away. Each candidate must still complete trials and testing. Just that the upper class would be more "pure". I'd even give some promotions to the scu... lower classes every once in awhile. LOL.

[Commissar Molotov]

A marine chapter in which the elite/command/termie squads are chosen from the royalty (upper class) of a planet and the troops/fast attack/heavy choices are from the lower class (I love hive scum!). has this been tried before? it sounds like a good idea to me, but I'd like some kind of input before I barrel into it.

 

Not a bad idea, but consider this:

 

To become a Captain or Chapter Master, the 'royal marines' must have served as bog-standard infantry, no? Or do the royalty get promoted straight into veterans?

 

The only way I could see of doing it would be if the chapter had recruited from one world, and then moved to a new planet. Hence the older marines would be from one culture, while the newer marines would be from the other.

[Einsatz]

I was thinking of a clash between "blood of heroes" and the real knights templar. Large hive cities testing it's population in brutal games and the "feral" outsiders. The "knights" as opposed to the "serving brethren". The knights clean and gallant, the brethren barbaric and unkept. Yet, both united in the cause of the emperor.

[Ivoracle]

Hmm... To me, it seems odd for a Marine chapter to be issuing out promotions based on lineage as opposed to battle experience. I'm not knowledgeable about the Black Templars, though. Marine fluff has always made me think of Chapters as being a whole different world, where the politics and class issues of the outside world don't exist, where only zeal, battle prowess, and accomplishment matter, and where men trust and respect their battle brothers regardless of where they came from in their past lives. Once you become a Marine, your past life is left behind. That sort of thing.

 

However, here's a different spin on the idea:

 

You could have the main battle companies chosen largely from elite class, while the reserve companies come from the lower classes. Within any given company, your standing is purely related to your battle prowess - i.e., in the reserve companies, lower-born marines climb to the ranks of Veteran, Captain, etc, but they generally don't advance out of their own company. In this way, there could be some class distinction between companies, but no on is given a battlefield role that they didn't earn. Perhaps in some rare cases, a low-born marine proves himself so worthy that he is promoted to a main battle company, but such occurrances could be rare.

 

Just a thought. As always, it's your chapter, so do what seems fun to you.

[Einsatz]

I like the idea, but it doesn't really allow the "touchl' I'm looking for.

 

What if the fast attack and veterans were the upper class and the troops and heavies came from the masses? Then the command and terimes could be from the best of both.

 

I don't really vet squads being anything but souped up tactical squads. Now granted it would mean giving fanvy tech to the heavies, but on the other hand it removes them from "honorable" close quarter fighting.

 

I like the idea and will keep working out it. If I can't make it work with marines, I'll use it for Gimp guard.

 

better days.

[Ferrata]

What if the fast attack and veterans were the upper class and the troops and heavies came from the masses? Then the command and terimes could be from the best of both.

 

Well you could do that the upper class, free from the hardships of life, enjoy horse riding/motor biking/big beast riding/etc. So once they become marines have the abilities already to become bikers/fast attack people. While the "scum" have to spend their time fighting together on foot, thus become the rank and file troops.

 

Also, the upper class might spend a lot of their childhood in martial arts, so become better then the scum at fighting, thus more likely to get promoted. Their not given the rank because they are upper class, but better because they are.

 

Ferrata

[Einsatz]

What if the fast attack and veterans were the upper class and the troops and heavies came from the masses? Then the command and terimes could be from the best of both.

 

Well you could do that the upper class, free from the hardships of life, enjoy horse riding/motor biking/big beast riding/etc. So once they become marines have the abilities already to become bikers/fast attack people. While the "scum" have to spend their time fighting together on foot, thus become the rank and file troops.

 

Also, the upper class might spend a lot of their childhood in martial arts, so become better then the scum at fighting, thus more likely to get promoted. Their not given the rank because they are upper class, but better because they are.

 

Ferrata

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

thats a really good idea. I can work that into my my army.

[Ivoracle]

Yeah, I think Ferrata may be on to something.

 

Nobility often train in those combat persuits perceived as "Noble". You could devise a society where the nobles often engage in competetive sport, including swordsmanship and martial arts, as well as mastery of vehicles - races, bike jousting, whatever.

 

While, on the other hand, the lower classes often train in "less honorable" weapons that kill at range, without meeting your opponent face to face. Where as the nobles may generally disdain becoming a skilled marksman, the commoners may become quite adept, especially if they have to hunt for their own food, defend their homes from wild beasts, etc.

 

So then Nobles end up in Fast Attack typically, because that's what they're good at (possibly starting as close-combat Scouts and Scout bikers). Commoners end up in Tac Squads and Devastator squads (possibly starting as sniper Scouts). Veterans get drawn from both, but possibly heavy on Fast Attack, since a Veteran Squad is often sent into Close Combat.

 

This also sets up interesting rivalries within the Chapter, based not so much on social class, but based on perceptions of which skill-set is more important, shooting or close combat.

[Commissar Molotov]

Marine chapters generally pick a specific type of neophyte. They recruit from hostile worlds, where natural selection works in their favour. Those they recruit are skilled survivors, skilled hunters and killers, used to thinking on their feet. Good recruits for marines.

 

The inhabitants of the underhives are vicious hive-gangers, notorious for their lawless lifestyles. They are tough, resourceful, and skilled with weapons from an early age. The tough environment of the underhive ensures only the strong survive. They are, therefore, ideal candidates to become Space Marines.

 

These nobility, however - I'm not so sure about them. They live comfortable, cushioned lives, with horse-riding and a bit of target shooting or the like. They seem perfect candidates for Imperial Guard generals (no doubt their parents will buy their darling children a commission in the Guard), but I'm not so sure about them being marines.

 

I know someone will probably bring up Macragge and the comfortable lifestyles of the Ultramarines' recruits, but on Macragge, life can be rather harsh. The Ultramarines recruit from all spectra of society. The children are put to military training at a very early age, and those that aren't accepted often do go on to be Guard.

[Einsatz]

Actually the movie "blood of heroes' was my start point. When I say higher class I mean those allowed 'in hive" as opposed to the ones outside. A similar effect can be seen in the "road warrior" movies (not the last one it was complete :lol: ). Both would be brutal, but the upper class would consider themselves above the lower class. Hate to add another movie but, 'kingdom of heaven" showed part of my comcept as well. The templars being upper class, the other knights being lower class ( although I think they did a terrible job on the knight of St. John).

 

Better days.

[Commissar Molotov]

Okay, I think you need to be particularly clear on where the chapter's inductees come from. From what I can see, you have four possible bands of recruits, and I'm not sure which you mean.

 

One: Noble Hivers. Those in the spires, treated to a life of luxury. Best education, equipment and facilities on the planet.

Two: Hive Workers. These inhabit the middle of the hive, and work in the Hive Factories.

Three: Underhivers: Criminal elements that drift to the lawless depths of the hive.

Four: Ash Waste Nomads: Those that live outside the hive, raiding trade caravans and the like. Poor health, equipment and facilities. Have to steal everything they get.

 

From these four, which are your "Upper Class" and which are your "Lower Class" inductees? Is it Hivers versus Nomads? In which case the Nomads likely stay in scout units, suited to their guerrila talents. Is it Nobles versus Underhivers?

[Einsatz]

No, no. it is poor writing on my part.

 

Inner hivers = winners of gladitorial games (usually to the death) that have

earned a life of luxury

 

Outer hivers = those outside the hives, barbarians if you will. A life living amongst the brutal conditions of the wilderness

 

Both recruited by the marine chapter. However, the "outers" are the base of the army, while the "inners" get the more advanced equipment.

 

The more I look at this the more I see it won't work. :lol:

 

Better days.

[Commissar Molotov]

It can work, it just needs considering. Your planet is a hive world. As with all hive worlds, it's terribly over-populated. Your planet conducts gladiatorial games, probably for entertainment (broadcasted on the equivalent of TV).

 

Those that win the games are rewarded, right, and are then chosen by marines? The main problem here is that marines have to be in their teens when inducted. So your gladiatorial games would be held between teenagers. They start off precocious and get worse when they're turned into marines.

 

I think that the disparate differences would perhaps tear a chapter apart. You have two precedents, really. The White Scars mix marines from different tribes together so they work together. The Iron Hands clan-companies are rigidly seperated to ensure competition, to drive out weakness.

 

Your Chaplains would have a nightmare with the huge gulf between the Inner Hivers and the Outer Hivers.

[Einsatz]

Rather than the troop types being different, the companies could be different. Allowing one company to be feral while the other was presented along moe "civilized" lines. Mixing them on the table could be a hassle though.

 

I'll work on it. I have nothing but time.

 

Thanks for the help.

 

Better days.

[Commissar Molotov]

Perhaps each company recruits from a different hive on the planet. This allows you to give each company a seperate character.

 

Also, a 40k army doesn't need to be drawn from one company. It could be drawn from multiple companies, especially if some companies specialise in certain areas of warfare.

[Einsatz]

I hadn't really thought of it that way. I first really started to play the game as a SW during 2nd ed. I've always looked at an army being from one company. But, now that I think about it, most marines keep the termies and the scouts in seperate companies. I'll have to rethink things I guess.