Space Based Chapters

[Silver]

So I'm fairly new to WH40k, and I've been considering my new SM chapter.

 

I wanted to start up a discussion on space based chapters, particularly how they might be organized, how they might operate, what chapters right now *are* or have been space based in the past, perhaps some info on how the Black Templars work?

 

Is there ever actual marine combat in space? Are marines capable of it? If there are established rules for that and if so, where might they be?

 

I'm especially info on space marine and imperial fleet ships (numbers, deployement, usage, that sort of thing.) This might be something for any BFG players out there...

 

Also, if I don't really want to use the codex options for divergent chapters (Eye to Eye, Honor your Colors, etc...), what are my other options? Anyone have any guildelines for this sort of custom creation?

 

And of course, any other discussion on the purpose, abilities, doctrine, etc. of a space based marine chapter would be awesome!

[Commissar Molotov]

It should firstly be noted that all Space Marine chapters have a fleet at their disposal. After the Horus Heresy, the nature of Space Marine fleets changed; rather than having the multi-purpose warships the Imperial Navy utilise, their ships were geared around delivering marines to target planets and then facilitating their landing.

 

Some chapters do not have a homeworld, and are based entirely in space. The prime example of these chapters would be the Black Templars.

 

"I wanted to start up a discussion on space based chapters, particularly how they might be organized, how they might operate, what chapters right now *are* or have been space based in the past, perhaps some info on how the Black Templars work?"

 

The Black Templars do not have a singular homeworld. They have chapter keeps on every world they fight on, which act as recruitment posts and temporary bases that the Templars can operate from.

 

This means that all the normal facilities that would be found in a fortress-monastery have to be on ships. The Black Templars' Index Astartes article makes reference to training vessels and gigantic forge-ships that trail in the wake of the Black Templars' fleets.

 

The High Marshal himself has his own battle barge, the Eternal Crusader, and he can travel from Crusade to Crusade lending his military genius and spiritual guidance to those under his command. The Eternal Crusader is gigantic, even for a battle barge, having been expanded and refitted over ten thousand years, with extra docking facilities for escort ships, additional launch bays for shuttles and Thunderhawks, as well as accommodation for twice as many Space Marines than a normal battle barge.

 

Organisation is something different. Theoretically, a chapter could stay together as one larger fleet, or disperse into many smaller fleets that could go where they wanted. A Battle Barge is generally accepted to hold three companies of marines, with a strike cruiser holding only a company. If there were extra facilities on board these vessels, those figures might be smaller.

 

Obviously a space-based chapter would have to be careful. They would be ephemeral; they wouldn't be able to be attacked as they would not be in one stationary location. That said, an accident in the warp or a particularly vicious space engagement and the chapter could be dealt a particularly grievous blow.

 

Is there ever actual marine combat in space? Are marines capable of it? If there are established rules for that and if so, where might they be?

 

Marines are capable and trained at boarding actions. References could be found in William King's Space Wolf novels and the Soul Drinkers series of books. There are no established rules for it, though there is a rumoured codex that will deal with boarding actions. Aside from that the closest you'd get would be the Space Hulk rules. Also, if you read about the Badab War, extensive Marine vs Marine ship-to-ship action took place that you would no doubt find very interesting.

 

I'm especially info on space marine and imperial fleet ships (numbers, deployement, usage, that sort of thing.) This might be something for any BFG players out there...

 

The Ultramarines chapter is listed as having Three Battle Barges, Eight Strike Cruisers and twelve rapid strike vessels. Two things have to be remembered when taking that into account. Firstly, the Ultramarines are a progenitor legion - they could potentially have more vessels than other chapters. Secondly, a space-based chapter might have more vessels than an ordinary chapter simply because they would require them. Daeothar can probably tell you stories of the Fiery Lions capturing enemy vessels.

 

This PDF might answer some of your questions regarding Space Marine vessel types and usage. There is another, older PDF that you might find more intersting if you can find it. Otherwise, if you have a specific question, ask it and I'm sure we'll try to help you.

 

Also, if I don't really want to use the codex options for divergent chapters (Eye to Eye, Honor your Colors, etc...), what are my other options? Anyone have any guildelines for this sort of custom creation?

 

Well, creating your own rules would probably not be looked upon kindly by most people. Either use the codex rules, or try to find another marine codex that fits your desires better.

 

And of course, any other discussion on the purpose, abilities, doctrine, etc. of a space based marine chapter would be awesome!

 

For a chapter to specialise in boarding actions is possible; look at the on-going Index Astartes: Imperial Castellans for a chapter that carries out a lot of boarding actions. A chapter specialising as such in boarding actions would need to be, by virtue, in an area where a lot of boarding actions would take place. Which could suggest the enemies being pirates of some kind, whether Ork, Eldar or human.

 

Just some thoughts that might help. Hope they do. ;)

[Rictophen]

:huh:

Uh.. Aren't the Dark Angels fleet based because they all fly around in giant church built out of a hollowed-out chunk of their planet which blew up ? The Fire Hawks are the only other chapter I can think of that are (were) fleet based. The Crimson Fists also I believe are fleet based because their home planet, Ryn's World, is now a deathworld infested with orks. Other chapters are like the Black Templars and the Flesh Tearers are described as being on crusade constantly. Fluff-wise a fleet based chapter makes alot of sense as Marines are too few to effectively hold territory and concern themselves with offensives, isolated missions and counter attacks.

 

Boarding actions don't really take place in 40K but they happen all the time in BattleFleet Gothic. But I'm sure a "boarding action" senario wouldn't be too hard to invent with a bit of inspiration. Lifting from space hulk as the Commisar suggested would be invauable. I'd imagine A fleet based Chapter fielding a preposterous amount of drop pods. Terminators were made specifically for boarding starships, however a chapter with large amounts of terminator armor suggests one that would have suitible prestige to have a homeworld (or a few).

[Commissar Molotov]

Well, it depends. The Rock is rather comparable to a Ramilles - it does move around, and the Dark Angels could be considered fleet-based. The Fire Hawks were indeed fleet-based, and are a prime example of the hazards of being entirely fleet-based.

 

The Crimson Fists are not fleet-based. Whilst historically they have been a crusading chapter, Rynn's World is their homeworld, and they have been fighting to clear it of the Ork infestation. The Rynn's World incident happened 11 years in the past. Ork infestation doesn't turn a planet into a deathworld.

 

The Black Templars are fleet-based but the Flesh Tearers are not - Cretacia is the Flesh Tearers' homeworld.

 

Fluff-wise a fleet based chapter makes alot of sense as Marines are too few to effectively hold territory and concern themselves with offensives, isolated missions and counter attacks.

Marines aren't the only staff in a chapter - there are thousands of serfs and servitors. Also don't forget that planet-based fortresses used by marines tend to be very heavily defended and in inhospitable climates. Then factor in that most marine homeworlds are hazardous in themselves, and that marine homeworlds aren't attacked as commonly as you might think. If marines wanted to, they could arm the populace of their homeworld - especially if it's a moderately civilised planet.

 

Terminators were made specifically for boarding starships, however a chapter with large amounts of terminator armor suggests one that would have suitible prestige to have a homeworld (or a few).

 

You don't need prestige to have a homeworld. A marine chapter could theoretically turn up anywhere and claim it as a recruiting ground.

 

Oh, and Silver - I hope you got my email? :)

[DraXaus]

A fleet based chapter dose makes sense, but they would be risking quite a lot for their mobility. The possibility of a warp storm is remote, but still a direct threat to the fleet. And if anything should happened to the battle barge, then all would be lost. It holds their most valued gene-seeds. I would consider that a significant price to pay to be fleet based.

[Commissar Molotov]

Add the Blood Ravens to the list - it appears they're fleet-based too.