Ebon Skulls - Mk2

[Bootae]

Hi all, it's great to be back here :blush:

 

Some may remember I posted a first draft of an IA for a friend's chapter "The Order of the Ebon Skull" a while ago (well a long time back now). Having taken some of the points noted here before and after many discussions mid painting session, here's the new version for your perusal....

 

Index Astartes: The Ebon Skulls

 

Origins

 

 

The exact origins and history of the Tthe Ebon Skulls is shrouded in mystery and a subject of much debate amongst Imperial scholars. The chapter is certainly old, their own records stretch back 3000 years, but beyond that all historical recordings have either been lost, or if you believe other whispered suggestions, have been deleted. Other historical records allude to the involvement of a loyalist chapter fitting their description, but rarely are they clearly referred to in name. The oldest specific mention of the chapter by dates from a M35.678 Terra orbital traffic record, when an Ebon Skull strike cruiser escorted an Inquisitorial Black ship of unrecorded designation in system. Certainly these ties with the Inquisition continue today, though the Inquisition remains close mouthed on their relationship and has repeatedly refused to share information about the chapter with any other Imperial organisations.

 

It would seem at first the Chapter shows quite the reverse as it proudly displays its allegiance to the Imperial Inquisition, symbols of the various Ordos are often featured on the chapter

[Librarian- Melechor]

Pretty nice work you've done there, your friend should be proud. I really like your chapter, you went into very fine detail to explain everything, nice job. I can't seem to find much wrong, keep it up. :blush:

[Drakkar Windrider]

Hmmmm...

 

This chapter confuses me quite a bit...

 

 

 

 

For one thing, why does the Inquisition insist so much on hiding everything about the chapter, while the chapter gladly tells everything to anyone? By this time, I would expect everyone in the Imperium to know what they are like!

 

Also, your references to Arthurian myths are a bit too plain, and predictable it seems to me. For one, using the names directly shows that you are not capable of making the chapter a bit more mysterious, not to mention that having a door with a plaque that reads "Artur" has to be the most dumbed-down version of a puzzle I've ever seen. Not to criticise wrongly, but if your chapter master's name is Mordred, and the plaque reads "Artur", then... well... there are only so many conclusions you can draw out of it, even in the 40K universe.

 

You write this too plainly simple. Does the Index Astartes reveal that many secrets about the chapters in it? And would a SM chapter reveal these secrets willingly enough for it to be of public domain?

 

Also, the "annals deleted or lost" is... over-used. Try to be more original! Out of all chapters submitted here, I think nearly 70% are mysterious like that.

 

 

 

 

Also, I don't remember well, but does the Deathwatch let the Marines return to their own chapters after a period of service? Also, a huge problem I find is that you make Deathwatch teams only out of Ebon Skulls. The fluff has always been that Deathwatch teams are made out of members of different chapters, so changing it for your own purpose doesn't seem wise or believable.

 

 

 

 

Now, I'm Ok with the thinly veiled allusions to Arthurian myths, but why sprinkle in freely certain details that simply do not fit with that? A base that is a huge black skull? A planet that is barren? A paint scheme that does not fit a knightly armour?

 

 

 

Also, Mordred's character does not fit that of a Chapter Master. Impetuous changes? Codex Astartes modifications on a mad whim? Leaving the Command Net in disarray when he leaves for battle? Not even Space Wolves are that reckless!

 

 

 

I will gladly pass the part where you make the chapter be chums with other chapters.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It seems to me like you had quite a few ideas already thought out, but then you let your mind sway towards a theme. The thing is this theme might not fit your ideas, no matter how cool you think it might be. If you shrowd the chapter in some more mystery without resorting to over-used ideas, and you get rid of themes to imprint a clear character to the chapter, then you will get a much better chapter.

 

I think that, if you take my advice, you should ask yourself this question. Could someone play this chapter, knowing its character, motivations and style, without that person being me? If the answer is yes, in my opinion, you will have created a chapter that is truly complete.

 

As an example, look at the Dark angels. They have a playing style, but are shrowded in secret. Give me a Dark Angels army, and a summary of units and capabilities, and I can play it without a problem despite their whole background being a secret.

 

I think making a chapter that is easy to play is the most important thing. Fluff is meant to support this. To explain why this chapter fights like this, and what are their motives. The reverse can be true, but if these values do not mix together...

 

Then you get a confusing chapter.

[Commissar Molotov]

Ah, Bootae; Interesting that you turn up just as I mention the Shadowhawks to Inquisitor Xenthor in his Collectors thread. :blush:

 

I do remember the Order of the Ebon Skull before; I gave feedback on the chapter the last time.

 

It seems that nearly every single chapter that comes into the Liber is 'shrouded in mystery' and a lot of them are the 'subject of much debate', too. What exactly does it add to your chapter? In your case I can imagine it shows that the Inquisition is firmly involved with them, but surely that could be expressed in a different way?

 

Drakkar is right in a sense that it seems odd if the chapter tells everyone everything the Inquisition is trying to keep secret. I'm guessing that's not what you meant to say. I liked what you said about the chapter proudly displaying the insignia of the Inquisition, but it might add to the thing if the chapter zealously guards its records.

 

I think that despite the brotherhood of 'Knights', it might be better suited if at least some of the knights have expressed discontent with some of Mordred's actions. It strikes me that even a political animal wouldn't get away with excessive casualties through poor leadership.

 

I think that Drakkar is being too harsh on you - but at the same time, he has a point. It's difficult to translate legends as popular as the Arthurian legends over wholesale. Then again, you didn't add a round table or the like. But perhaps the names could do with modification, like you did with Artur?

 

Also, I don't remember well, but does the Deathwatch let the Marines return to their own chapters after a period of service? Also, a huge problem I find is that you make Deathwatch teams only out of Ebon Skulls. The fluff has always been that Deathwatch teams are made out of members of different chapters, so changing it for your own purpose doesn't seem wise or believable.

Yes, they do. And during the thirteenth black crusade, there were kill-teams made almost entirely out of Ultramarines.

 

Now, I'm Ok with the thinly veiled allusions to Arthurian myths, but why sprinkle in freely certain details that simply do not fit with that? A base that is a huge black skull? A planet that is barren? A paint scheme that does not fit a knightly armour?

 

Perhaps because he's not trying to completely rip-off the Arthurian influence? :wink:

 

Also, Mordred's character does not fit that of a Chapter Master. Impetuous changes? Codex Astartes modifications on a mad whim? Leaving the Command Net in disarray when he leaves for battle? Not even Space Wolves are that reckless!

 

I quite like it, actually. It's good to make a flawed character, especially when there are suspicions amongst the Inquisition about how exactly he got to be in the position. He's abusing power within the chapter by being the Master of Sanctity at the same time. I think there's potential for an interesting piece of fluff there.

[Bootae]

Actually it's not my ideas alone he's criticising ;) It's a mate's chapter who doesn't have regular net access, I've just helped him lay it out in an IA style.

 

Some bits I'd agree with some not. Totally agree with the being too open vs inquisition not, it's always felt a somewhat wonky.

 

But I don't see how you can say its ripping off Arthurian stuff too much and then shortly after question why it has stuff that doesn't :)

 

Anyway will reply in more depth later :D

[Drakkar Windrider]

No, no, no! Hey! I am not accusing you of ripping off Arthurian myths!

 

(In fact, I will be making an IG army that has strong knightly values like those for DI)

 

(as a side-note, whenever I say "you", I mean your friend)

 

 

 

 

It's just... you put things too plainly, but you don't go all the way. If you are going to choose a theme, you might as well go all the way with it. However, I see this chapter as sort of mix. The giant Black Skull is cool, but doesn't fit an Arthurian theme, for example.

 

Now, when I say "go all the way", I don't mean ripping it off completely. For example, if they are Arthurian knights, their Chapter Master could weild a special sword like Excalibur. How he obtained it? Re-write the Lady of the Lake mythos! Perhaps, instead of having a wet lady toss the sword out to him (damn communist peasants...), he had to fight a mermaid-like being under the water, or he was in the middle of a battle in a factory, and he had to quite literally pull out a huuuuge iron column to make the factory fall down and win the battle.

 

When he appeared from among the rubble, he was clutching an Aspiring Champion's sword, and he had it re-consecrated and added to his personal arsenal I have been told that's popular.

 

*coughgauntletsofUltramarAxeofMorkaicough*

 

 

 

 

If you write the factory thing, for example, no one will be the wiser about the sword being a sort of post-modern Excalibur, unless they draw parallels with the rest of the chapter's fluff. And that's part of the magic. It could be a translation of Arthurian mythos into Warhammer 40.000.

 

(I sort of wanna know how that would translate into Imperial history...)

[Commissar Molotov]

I don't see it that way. I think it's entirely possible to have subtle hints of a theme without having to go all the way. The Native American Deathwing are a great example of these. They're subtly influenced by Native American mythos. They're not completely so. I think that in a chapter it's entirely possible to mix two or more completely different themes and have them complement each other. I don't think you have to do one theme and drive it in to the hilt.

[Tubal]

The Native American Deathwing are a great example of these.

I think the problem is that the Arthurian stuff is too specific. Having a 'native american' (deathwing) or 'knightly' (Black Templars) twist isn't a bad idea, as it gives flavour, but when you get specific and choose 'Arthurian' or 'Sitting Bull-in-space' (as a swede I have no knowledge of american history btw :unsure:) you get too many things that have to be 'correct' for it to feel complete. You have to have an excalibur, a round table, and a watery tart that throws swords or something feels wrong.

 

Btw, the reason the Deathwatch usually have kill-teams made up from different chapters is that most chapters don't like to give up 10 of it's warriors at a time. Why did they have kill-teams operating during the 13th black crusade though, that should have been the other ordo's problem? I suppose they cooperate when necessary, but still: why would the Ultramarines give up so many marines at such a critical time?

[Commissar Molotov]

Because GW had to appease the players of all armies. There were Tyranids at the Cadian Gate. (One of the endless 'splinter fleets' that shouldn't have even been there).

 

As I understand, there was fluff saying that the Kill-Teams were almost entirely comprised of Scythes of the Emperor and the Ultramarines.

[Tubal]

Because GW had to appease the players of all armies.

But there aren't any Ordo Xenos players (well, no codex anyway), and the Ultramarines were there anyway! :blink:

[Commissar Molotov]

Sorry if I was unclear. I mean that GW had to let the Tyranids into the party, so there was a Tyranid splinter fleet near the Cadian Gate.

[Bootae]

Guys, I've made some changes based upon feedback. Have another read and see if that feels better. BTW I've not changed much to do with the planet or Mordred as personally I like the lunatic in charge :rolleyes: but I amended it slightly.

 

I've not run this past Zeeback yet, so if he doesn't like the changes, it's his chapter, but please see what you think anyway.