The Doom Dragons Come Unto Thee

[Brother Alex]

Shows me, then!

 

Well, then, here's a bit of a dot point revision:

 

- Salamanders successors

- Trained by a mixture of Chapter members, most notably veterens from the Black Templars and Blood Angels Chapters, although Crimson Fists and Ultramarines sometimes took part, too.

- Homeworld is (was!) a planet of volcanic activity, with lush forest environments under the docile volcanoes while other areas are lake-like, filled with molten lava.

[Commissar Molotov]

I saw that post and was going to object about the mix of chapters training them, and then I thought that could actually be something interesting and original, depending on how you were to fluff it. I like the idea of a Chapter Master approaching all sorts of different chapters for information, learning their tactics in an attempt to combine them all the attempt to create the epitome of a Space Marine. A chapter that has honour pacts (favours owing) with chapters all over the place, often operating in conjunction with other chapters. It could be taken to the extent of having your scouts train alongside other chapters, but that's up to you. If you do so, try to focus on other successor chapters, rather than the big nine.

[Brother Alex]

Well, perhaps. Black Templars and Crimsons Fists are of course Second Founding and I don't think it's unreasonable to have one or two of the Legions involved to some degree. With the Scouts, that is an idea. I could even have Chapter icongraphy on them the same way as the Deathwatch, to show that they had been tained by a certain Chapter and having those markings removed when they get their Power Armour, being fully initiated into the Doom Dragons.

[Commissar Molotov]

Hmm, I'm not so sure about having another chapter's iconography and then removing it, but perhaps they might mark their armour in such a way as to pay homage to the chapter that trained them.

 

Regardless, put up the new draft of your work, and then we can give you more detailed critique.

[Brother Alex]

All in the fullness of time. I doubt the story itself will change too much apart from the start. Having a duke out between a Librarian and a Sorceror is too classic for me to pass up, I'm afraid and being thrown into the Warp isn't completely original but there isn't a lot of alternative.

[Ferrata]

- Trained by a mixture of Chapter members, most notably veterens from the Black Templars and Blood Angels Chapters, although Crimson Fists and Ultramarines sometimes took part, too.

 

Ok, this is not brilliant, but it's acceptable. I would suggest changing the chapters to ones a little low key, as alll four are big chapters (Yes, two are 2nd Founding, but one of them has their own codex and the other has quite a deep background).

 

By the time of the present day, I believe most of the veterans would have returned to their chapter or died. It will now be down to the chapter to train its scouts.

 

Ferrata

[Brother Alex]

Well, whichever. The point is that I generally want them to be successors from those, so anything along those line swill be used/replaced. Black Templars will stay as no-one can say how many members of the Chapter there are. The others will probably change at some point, though.

 

On further thought I would not be so fast to throw away the gene-tampering idea, either. However silly or stupid it might seem, it opens up many paths rather than a classic, flawless servant of the Emperor. One original complaint was that my Chapter was quite one-dimensional, and what's really to stop them from trying again and trying the experiment anew?

[space wolf]

look, a chapters character and identity rarely, and I mean RARELY come from the geneseed. it doesnt generally matter what geneseed you chap comes from, they can be as close combaty or shooty as you want them to be.

 

if your adament about having the BT train them...whats wrong with making the BT successors, they dont necessarily have to follow BT rules or motives fluffwise. Perhaps the Captain chosen to help jumpstart the new chapter, had ideas of his own that didnt quite mesh with the BT style, but now that he is the head of a new chapter he gets to implement his own "improvements."

[Brother Alex]

This post is generally for throwing a few ideas around. Just random, SM related things.

 

Salamander Successors?

Blood Angels Successors?

Imperial Fists?

Close quarter fighters

21st founding

Prefer lighter special weapons to heavy weapons.

Often employed in tight, city-like environments.

Hate an open battlefield.

Small amounts of heavy and long range support.

White Scars successor?

Pyromaniacs to a degree.

 

Tell me which ideas are good and which are excrete from a small, furry creature, as I obviously have no clue. :ph34r:

[Commissar Molotov]

Salamander Successors?

Blood Angels Successors?

Imperial Fists?

....

White Scars successor?

Any of these are eminently possible, and the choice is yours. From what you've been saying, it sounds Salamander successors are your best shot.

 

Close quarter fighters

Often employed in tight, city-like environments.

Hate an open battlefield.

 

Great. Space Marines are brilliant in combat and at short ranges, and they're rarely committed to large battlefields - their numbers are limited and they're not optimised for such combat.

 

21st founding

A thousand times, please no. Leave the twenty-first founding alone. Your chapter simply doesn't need to have tampered gene-seed.

 

Prefer lighter special weapons to heavy weapons.

 

Again, fine.

 

Small amounts of heavy and long range support.

Entirely possible.

 

Pyromaniacs to a degree.

 

I dislike this, it makes your marines seem dangerously - stupidly - unhinged. Sure, they can use holy flame as a weapon, but pyromania? It seems to drag your ideas into disrepute. They are the holiest guardians of the Imperium. Not teenage kids with a lighter and an aerosol can.

[Brother Alex]

:ph34r:

"The Emperor's Divine Cleansing is pretty!!"

 

I didn't mean that they really take in pyromanicy, rather that they prefer heat-based weapons to any other type when possible. On the Blood Angels, isn't the Gene-Seed locked away to prevent any more successors due to the Black Rage?

[Commissar Molotov]

This from Codex: Blood Angels, Third Edition, Page 14:

 

'The Blood Angels Chapter was originally part of a much larger Legion during the Second Founding. Just as it itself is an offshoot of an older institution, so too has Blood Angels gene-seed been used to create several Successor Chapters.

 

These Successor Chapters were created before discovery of the Blood Angels' flaw. The most widely known are shown on this page, but doubtless there are many others in dark and far-flung corners of the galaxy, each trying to battle the legacy that is the Red Thirst.'

 

So your chapter just has to be before the High Lords stopped creating Blood Angels successors. Don't ask when it was, as a date hasn't been given. Don't ask which founding was the last to use Blood Angels seed (aside from the 13th/21st) because nobody can tell you. Nobody can tell you what date most of the foundings were.

[Brother Alex]

Fair enough. I think the Black Rage is an interesting plot tool, but I don't want to have to alter my traits or use the considerably flawed Blood Angels Codex. What do you suggest?

[Commissar Molotov]

Rules aren't my area, and you'd have to post in either Amicus Aedes or the Blood Angels forum for information on that. I can only help you with the fluff. (And this topic might be better off staying focused on your fluff). People in Amicus might be able to help you represent the Black Rage without the Blood Angels codex.

[Race Bannon]

look, a chapters character and identity rarely, and I mean RARELY come from the geneseed. it doesnt generally matter what geneseed you chap comes from, they can be as close combaty or shooty as you want them to be

and

 

I would suggest changing the chapters to ones a little low key

 

Could you "create" Chapters to do this?

 

What I am suggesting is that every new Chapter is trianed by some other chapter (at least that is the thought) ... but does it *have* to be from any of the official GW stuff? Isn't it possible your chapter was trained in close-quarter combat by the .... Omega Guard?

 

This way there is no need to get bogged down by the canonic fluff of a GW Chapter and all the problems that arise from using them.

[Ferrata]

What I am suggesting is that every new Chapter is trianed by some other chapter (at least that is the thought) ... but does it *have* to be from any of the official GW stuff? Isn't it possible your chapter was trained in close-quarter combat by the .... Omega Guard?

 

Personally, I think this is the best way of doing it. I try and talk about offical chapters as little as possible because then you can't get tangled up in the GW fluff for them. If you just have Random Chapter A, no-one can dispute their motives.

 

Ferrata

[Brother Alex]

- What geneseed are they?

 

=][=

Information removed by Inquisitorial edict; release pending.

 

- What founding were they?

 

Unimportant at the moment and something I'm not bothering with until later.

- What is their chapter symbol/colour scheme?

 

Red, with blue shoulder-pads and grey trim.

 

- What is their Homeworld like, and what is the culture of the homeworld? (ie is it a Hive World, a Feral World, a Death World etc)

 

It is a sea-world, broken with large groups of tiny islands, usually connected with sand bars. There are few very solid land masses, and these themselves house ruins aplenty if not Marine structures.. The culture of the the world is quite gesalt; that is, within the kingdoms that are dotted around the planet. These are mainly peaceful with each other, but when war breaks out, it is fought in an unconventional way. A kingdom sends 20 of its greatest fighters against another set of 20. These are air lifted to a set a set of ruins closest to the Marine stronghold. They are then placed in the ruins not far from each other and their carriers leave... never to return.

The two warring gangs fight it out. They use a Las weapons, auto weapons and some even come across Bolt weapons that they use to deadly effect. In fact, they are allowed anything they are willing to carry. The two gangs suffer casualties, and the members within them get more and more tired and hurt. This is where their trial truley starts. As they begin to retreat, they look for the nearest sing of civilisation... a towering spire rising from the distance, arcane streaks of flowing light up its sides. They need to beat starvation, despair and some of the wildlife to reach it, but when they do, they start their training to become Space Marines.

The normal people of the planet are usually artisans, creating many things. Thusly, in their immediate part of the galaxy they are called upon to design weapon additions and all manner of mechanical things. This also means that the Chapter receives a higher number of Marines with extreme technical skill, and while they have no greate number than usual of Techmarines, there are always Marines who could be shipped off to Mars at a moment's notice.

 

 

- Where in the Imperium are they based? (It may help define the kind of enemies they face most often.)

 

Eastern Fringe

 

- What is their Combat Doctrine like? (do they prefer Close Combat or ranged fighting?)

 

They are taught to forgoe heavy weapons in favour of lighter weapons. The reasoning is that most squads are tactical squads, and weighing a single member down and therefore slowing the whole sqaud down is neither tactically smart nor fair to the squad or the unlucky Marine bearing the huge weapon. Apart from that, they fight like other Marines.

 

- What is their Organisation like (do they follow the Codex or are they a bit different?)

 

To foster their technical skills, one day within 10, all periods of other activity (including sleep), are halved so that the remaining time can be used for the instruction, practise and designing of mechanical things, for battle or maintenance. High armounts of Marines are armed with hand supports for the use of a Bolter in one hand, although they are taught to do the same even without the brace. This technical skill does not mean that they have a larger than normal amount of Techmarines, only that the Chapter is rarely below strength in that area.

Apart from this, they do not have a 10th Company. Instead, the Scouts are spread across the Battle Companies (except the 1st) so that they can learn from the Marines they are fighting aside, until the foe hits them in close quarters. This makes sure that since the Scouts are deployed ahead, they have to rely on themselves, but if they survive initial contact they can also learn from their older bretheren. This is done because of strategic reasoning. Having Scouts within the 2nd-5th Companies ensures that there is always permanent recon and Sniper support, not to mention deadly shock troops.

 

- What is their Belief System?

 

It differs little. They revere the Emperor and their Primarch and they take example from when the two first met (for this reason I want Blood Angel or Salamander Gene-Seed).

[Ferrata]

These are mainly peaceful with each other, but when war breaks out, it is fought in an unconventional way. A kingdom sends 20 of its greatest fighters against another set of 20. These are air lifted to a set a set of ruins closest to the Marine stronghold. They are then placed in the ruins not far from each other and their carriers leave... never to return.

The two warring gangs fight it out. They use a Las weapons, auto weapons and some even come across Bolt weapons that they use to deadly effect. In fact, they are allowed anything they are willing to carry. The two gangs suffer casualties, and the members within them get more and more tired and hurt. This is where their trial truley starts. As they begin to retreat, they look for the nearest sing of civilisation... a towering spire rising from the distance, arcane streaks of flowing light up its sides. They need to beat starvation, despair and some of the wildlife to reach it, but when they do, they start their training to become Space Marines.

I think this has some merit, but is flawed. I'm guessing that the twenty best warriors of each force are all men, as you would expect. The problem is, only children between ten and fourteen can be turned into Space Marines, thus you need to find a solution why the kingdoms are sending twenty young children to fight for their bidding. If you want them to be a technologoical people, where technology is held in high esteem. Why not have each of the islands being led my techno-barbarians (similar to that on Terra when the Emperor took charge). They could fight across the sand bridges and waters, and they have an arms race to out do one another, thus the technology advances. This gives you the technology and produces good fighting young children.

 

They are taught to forgoe heavy weapons in favour of lighter weapons. The reasoning is that most squads are tactical squads, and weighing a single member down and therefore slowing the whole sqaud down is neither tactically smart nor fair to the squad or the unlucky Marine bearing the huge weapon. Apart from that, they fight like other Marines.

I don't think a Marine will strugle to carry any of the heavy weapons, so it is not unfair on the carrier. If your going down the assault weaponry fire, I think you should go for another reason. You could for the basic "have shown a preference to see their enemy before killing them". I don't think Marines would prefer to fight other marines, as this would mean they themselves or their oppenent are traitor. You could say they have experience fighting against Traitor forces and their tactics have evolved.

 

With the scouts, I believe that is common practice anyway. The scouts don't really function as a company, like the main battle companies, but are instead "loaned" out to the battle companies when needed.

 

Ferrata

[Commissar Molotov]

I don't think Marines would prefer to fight other marines, as this would mean they themselves or their oppenent are traitor. You could say they have experience fighting against Traitor forces and their tactics have evolved.

 

B)

 

He said 'They fight like other marines' not 'They like fighting other marines'.

[Ferrata]

He said 'They fight like other marines' not 'They like fighting other marines'.

 

Woops B) Thats what you get for posting before breakfast, I need food ^_^

[Brother Alex]

I laughed out loud at that, and I needed it. ^_^

 

There is the thing with the age I forgot. Hm. On a planet where fighting is taught as an art, I'm sure there would be plenty of pre-pubescents with big ideas... B)

 

EDIT:

 

What is their Homeworld like, and what is the culture of the homeworld? (ie is it a Hive World, a Feral World, a Death World etc)

 

A sea world, with little number of islands, the main land mass being a twisting peice of land spanning the whole world, overlapping any times. The planet itself is in early deveopment, so the areas near volcanoes where oxygen is plentiful are sought after and warred over. The people of the world are technologically advanced, however, so the battled are fought in extremely varied conditions.

Aircraft of all types is revered and kept for only the most sacred of people, those being the Tech Priests and those beginning their journey towards being Marines, who are seen as the Angels of the Machine God, their skin the pinnacle of His work. The Marines-to-be are taken to the coast of the largest island, the Stronghold being in the centre, in ships of the Adeptus Astartes. There they have to brave each-other, lack of sustainence and the large creatures of the island to reach the Stronghold.

The people venerate the remains of a Knight and see the Marines as his reincarnations to finish his work; ghosts of destiny, if you will.

[Brother Alex]

I really do hate to double post, but could anyone comment or give me a critique before I go ahead with this?

[Ferrata]

Seems ok. Why do they give air-crafts to young boys who will never come back?

 

Ferrata

[Brother Alex]

They don't give them to the boys; the Marine vehicles come, drop down, and a few Marines escort the prospectives into the aircraft and fly them to the Dropzone.

[Ferrata]

You need to re-word that section, as it reads like the population gives their aircrafts to the young children.

 

Ferrata