Battle Length

[Ferrata]

I've been writting my Wings of Death article (I shouldn't be, but thats besides the point :blush: ), and one main problem is concerning me. How long does your average Battle take? I'm guessing the following -

 

Space Marine Quick Deployment - a couple of Months including prior planning.

Space Marine Planet Battle - short one around 4 years, getting on to 10 years for the bigger planets

Space Marine Campaign - getting onto 20 years

Space Marine Crusade - anything from 25 years onwards, probably reaching to 150 years before recalling is required.

 

I assume that Imperial Guard battles will last longer due to their nature in battle, but SM are usely quicker.

 

Ferrata

[Race Bannon]

I will suggest not necessarily. I'm currently reading the Taros Campaign from Forge World. Although not finished, I am given the impression that the entire event on the planet takes place over several months, not years. And this involves the IG *and* Marines. The actual planning of the event took longer only because requests had to be made, messages had to be sent to IG regiments, and the units had to be moved to Taros. This includes the Marines involved - from the Avenging Sons Chapter involvement to the Raptors making planetfall.

 

If anything, the Avenging Sons took a few months in total (including planning). But the actual involvement of that Chapter lasted 3 - 5 days.

 

The numbers you suggest seems more appropriate for the IG ... Marines would get things done faster and more efficiently.

 

At least I think. :blush:

[Aurelius Rex]

Yes. While the Imperial Guard might be involved in prolonged mopping up and pacification the Astartes are the lightning bolt that appears from nowhere and devastates the unprepared enemy before they can react, taking vital targets, decapitating C&C structures, cutting off the head of the snake as it were. The Astartes could probably have spearheaded strikes on three or four battlezones by the time the Guard has properly dealt with the first one, but then there are only a million marines in the Imperium and countless billions of guardsmen.

 

Why let them get bogged down in trench-fighting and ruin their advantage of speed. Leave the gruntwork to the poor old Imperial Guard.

 

There is a good story in the 3rd ed Codex Space Marines about how a marine chapter takes down a whole planetary defence force piecemeal. They are quick, brutally effective, and leave the planet with little military to defend it once the rogue govenor has been installed... but that is not their problem. :blush:

[Ferrata]

Well, the first few were not my problem just queries, but Crusade's are important to my chapter. How long would a crusade last if the crusade consists of all types of Imperial forces? Currently I have them lasting around 25 years, from leaving Imperium Space to being recalled, does this sound right?

 

Ferrata

[Grimdarkness]

Well, the first few were not my problem just queries, but Crusade's are important to my chapter. How long would a crusade last if the crusade consists of all types of Imperial forces? Currently I have them lasting around 25 years, from leaving Imperium Space to being recalled, does this sound right?

 

Ferrata

 

Well the great crusade lasted 200-300 hundred years and the Sabbot world's crusade is entering it's 21st year and marine chapter's have been sent on penitent crusades of a hundred years so 25 to a hundred sounds good.

 

In one of the black library sort sortie collections there's a story about a marine chapter that has returned from crusade after a hundred years. I'll look for it later tonight.

[Rogue Trader]

Have a look at the definition of 'Crusade':

 

cru

[Dasleah]

If a Space Marine spends more than a month on a single planet in a single spot, then they're pretty much a wasted resource. I could see Marines fighting for an extended period of time on one world, but as for actual combat, they'd be limited to very infrequent, very short battles. I don't even think they'd take the months to plan their attacks, as many people here are saying. They have the Codex Astartes to draw battle plans and strategums from - after 10'000 years, I think it would have enough ammendums within it to tackle most things head-on. They'd recieve the summons (or, more accurately, request) and meet with the appropriate persons out of the target system. They'd get a briefing on enemy strength, positions, commanders, orbital support. They'd then feed that into the plans within the Codex Astartes, find the battle plan that best fits that number of variables, then execute it.

I believe standard procedure for that is domination of orbital defences and communications, then a controlled drop into planet-side coms, followed by pursuit of the primary objective (caputre this, kill that, defend this, don't wake that, etc) Imperial Guard, in the meantime, have formed up on the projected front line and are slogging it out at distance with the enemy.

Of course, that's all thrown out the window when it's more than just a minor rebellion, or a non-Codex Chapter :jaw: But Marines are super-elite genetic shock troops. They're in and out faster than you can say "OHMIDARKGOD-Marines-are-everywhere-and-wait-we're-all-dead!!!11eleven!!1" and their legends as vengeful phantoms of the Emperor rely on that speed.

 

Crusades are another matter. I think in the Imperium the term 'Campaign' and 'Crusade' are interchangable, as to a small extent any military action by the Imperium is religous-based. You could pull a Sigusmund and do a Crusade that will only end when there's nothing evil left to kill, so that's pretty much an eternal Crusade. Others seem to end with the death or boredom of their commander, like with the Lord Solar Machurius (sp) So timeframe is really relative. You could have a Crusade against the "dreaded x of y" or something, that could last as long as you want. But as for regular Marine movements, as fast as superhumanly possible.

 

...

 

That's not to say, of course, that Marines don't get involved in trench warfare, or garrison duty. It's up to the Marines what they do (which is what causes so many headaches for other Adepts)

[xRagex]

Well at the same time, they've also been known to leave some worlds completely dead and lets be honest even with orbital bombardments that's still going to take some time to manage. If I remember rightly thats also why all Space Marines have that organ (that I'm don't know the name of :jaw: ) that allows them to function without sleep for days, so they can keep fighting. This is all based on the assumption you mean, they're in an out within a day or so. Yes, my grammar is atrocious.

[Race Bannon]

:ot: sorta

 

From Codex: Sisters of Battle:

A Crusade is ordered by the authority of the High Lords of Terra, and generally involves all the different organizations of the Imperium, including Space Marines, Imperial Guard, the Imperial Navy, the Adeptus Ministorum and the administrative forces of the Adeptus Terra. A War of Faith is by command of the Ecclisiarch alone and primarily concerns only the members of the Adeptus Ministorum and the followers of the Imperial Creed. Aside from this general distinction, the two overlap considerably.

 

Just fyi if we are going to discuss the Ecclisiarchy and a Crusade. :jaw:

[xRagex]

That sounds right to me, but what about the Black Templars? As far as I know their crusade is self imposed and despite what the high lords say I don't think they'd be upset if chapters engaged in self imposed crusades and even if a chapter should decide not to rally to a crusade sanctioned by the high lords it'll take awhile before they(high lords) get word of it.

[Dasleah]

Yeah, but Marines act as an autonomous military body. No-one has direct authority over them except the Emperor himself, so I can't really see the Astartes petitioning the High Lords for a Crusade Permit. Other departments can requent Marine support, and the Inquisition can make them uncomfortable enough to participate, but they're not really held accountable for what they do. Marines do, as Marines want.

And I don't even think it takes that long to co-ordinate an orbital bombardment of a planet. Even the smallest escort vessel (probably most commonly used to get a bunchof Marines from A to B ) has a payload of Exterminatus-level weaponary (as shown in the first Third Edition Tyranid Codex) So it's concievable that the Marines could judge the world beyond saving and just ignite the planet's atmosphere (as they did in the aforementioned story). But this would probably get the Inquistion a bit riled up (and probably get a few whoops of excitement from the Monodominants) - the Marines in the Tyranid Codex were reporting to an Inquisitor at the end. I see Inquisitors as more the Arbites of the Marines. There to enforce Imperial Law and ensure the Marines remain accountable for their actions. But, as we all know, if a Chapter doesn't want to talk, then nothing short of bringing a few other (more loyal...ish) Chapters into orbit around their homeworld is going to make them justify their actions.

[Nicili]

I would have to agree with some of the points Rogue Trader mentioned.

 

I think truly a crusade would not exactly be sanctioned by the High Lords of Terra; I think they might have other matters on their hands. So I think any chapter could 'crusade' to some extent; (with backing and evidence for the well being of the imperium, etc).

 

Also, thinking about the Holy Crusades in the early centuries of the previous millenium, the Knights Templar were highly trained, of course not to the extent of Space Marines, but they were in the Middle East for long periods of time, as it did take a while to complete 'objectives', even though some ended in failures.

 

I know this isnt the best arguement, but i kinda look toward Dawn of War as an Idea. The blood ravens are fighting the orks, eldar, and chaos for a fairly long period of time, compared to what some of you have been recommending as time spent. Space Marines, yes might be lighting fast response forces, but i also think they do have many other obstacles and problems to take care of while on planets while purging of the unclean.

 

Thats just my thought

-Nicili

[Nine_Breaker]

Space Marine Quick Deployment - a couple of Months including prior planning.

Space Marine Planet Battle - short one around 4 years, getting on to 10 years for the bigger planets

Space Marine Campaign - getting onto 20 years

Space Marine Crusade - anything from 25 years onwards, probably reaching to 150 years before recalling is required.

 

I think I'll simply redo this with my own opinions.

 

Space Marine Quick Deployment - a week or so depending on the scale of the operation

Space Marine Planet Battle - A single battle shouldn't last longer than a week (of course, seige is a whole other story)

Space Marine Campaign - anywhere from 3-20 years... after that I'd say the SM are wasting their time

Space Marine Crusade - varies on the goal... could be as little as a couple years, but it could last forever (literally)

 

It certainly wouldn't take much time to plan. Heck, Napoleon would find out where an enemy was and make his battle plans before the day was up! Considering that Space Marines are all about speed and decisiveness, I think they could match or more likely, best, that kind of planning speed. And deploying their troops from orbit to planetside probably wouldn't take more than a couple hours. Not like they need to organize tens of thousands of troops or anything!

[the_raptor]

I think the classification has more to do with the forces involved and the type of operation then its length. Very few people are likely to call an operation involving one company of marines a crusade. GW typically indicates that a crusade involves multiple marine chapters.

[Ferrata]

Space Marine Planet Battle - A single battle shouldn't last longer than a week (of course, seige is a whole other story)

I didn't mean a single battle, more a Planet War. I was considering this to be akin to the World Wars. Thanks for your opinions, so it stands about right that my Chapter's crusades last around 25 years, as these are only small crusades into an area of Space.

 

Ferrata