Feral Salamanders succersor.

[Keyoz Devastrius]

I love Salamanders and praise lord Vulcan, but I hate their stoicism.

 

I would like my chapter to be a feral version of them (more like pre-heresy Lunar Wolfs then Space Wolfs), more assault oriented. The dragon theme and promethean cult are something I would like to keep, maybe altering a bit. I

[Ulfhedin]

Officially the Salamanders have no successors.

 

So really you'd be better off creating a chapter who venerate the ideals of Vulcan and the Salamanders style of fighting but can claim no genetic link to them.

 

As for the Promethean cult... well as there still remains no good explaination in the Sallies background as to what the Promethean cult actually is or does I'd say go for it.

[Tubal]

Officially the Salamanders have no successors.

No 2nd founding successors. Later foundings successors are hinted at, and never forbidden.

They have perfectly pure geneseed so there's no reason why they wouldn't be used every once in a while.

[Rogue Trader]

There's no reason to suppose the Salamanders shouldn't have a successor that's close combat oriented. The stoicism isn't necessarily attributable to the gene-seed. From IA: S:

 

As far as can be ascertained, the Salamanders' gene-seed appears to be stable and as yet uncorrupted. The reflexes of Salamanders Space Marines are not as fast as those of other Chapters, although still quick when suited in power armour. However, it is unknown whether this is due to a defect in the gene-seed, a result of their high gravity world, or comes about from the Chapter's doctrines against hastiness and impetuosity.

Salamanders are (under 4th edition) as quick as any other marine in game-rules terms, and even under 3rd ed with the I3 rule, they were still considered to faster than normal humans in the fluff.

 

Your chapter won't necessarily have the same doctrines and philosphies as the Salamanders, neither will they necessarily come from a high-grav world, thus eliminating two of the possible causes.

 

It's also important to note that having doctrines "against hastiness and impetuosity" doesn't mean you're no good at close combat - rather, it means you plan where best to strike, and how the wage the battle to best effect, rather than just seeing the enemy, screaming a battle cry and charging towards them! :D I'd be inclined to say that with an assault heavy chapter, planning would all the more inportant, as a chapter with a greater than usual number of assault marines would be more specialised than a pure codex chapter, and thus would perhaps need to plan how and where to press their advantages (superior numbers of high quality assault troops) to a greater degree than a more tactically flexible "balanced" codex force.

[Darrell]

A few points.

 

1) There are no known 2nd founding Salamanders successors, while other Chapters have been hinted to as having Salamanders geneseed (Storm Giants and Black Dragons). There is nothing wrong with having Salamander geneseed in your Chapter, whether the Marines know where it comes from or not.

 

2) I have a Chapter taken from Salamanders geneseed (They know it and they're proud of it), but they are a very fast, mobile army (They share the love of bikes and speeders with White Scars) instead of the more slow and stoic force of their father Chapter. The Salamanders may train their new successors, but the amount of time between their training and the present could be thousands of years--more than enough time for the Chapter to pick out what fighting tactics work better or worse for them. I would think that, of all the Chapters, the Salamanders would be the most likely to go along with this kind of "deviation" of their doctrine. However, while your Chapter would be focused on close combat, they would probably be a lot more tactful and patient than bloodthirsty and screaming (Although they could be that too). My Chapter has a strong respect for fire and makes use of a lot of flame-based weaponry (Flamers and meltas on their bikes), since they come from a volcanic deathworld similar to Nocturne. That isn't specifically the Promethean Cult, but your Chapter could be part of the Salamanders' particular worship if you liked.

 

Alternatively, you could make a Black Dragons force and come up with some more fluff for them. The Black Dragons are very feral (Some of them have claws coming out of their arms for the Emperor's sakes), and are very assault oriented. Although they probably wouldn't be connected to the Promethian Cult exactly, per se, but they could have a healthy respect for fire and the like. And it would be fairly easy to represent as far as traits go (Since I believe the Cursed Foundings don't have any 4th ed. rules yet). Just give them Blessed be the Warriors and No Mercy, No Respite for advantages. Flesh over Steel for their Major Disadvantage. Model the elite assault teams as having the bone crests and bone claws on their arms, and you'd be good to go!

 

Whatever you decide to do, I wish you luck. :rolleyes:

[ale0x]

http://bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?s...43&hl=stormclaw

 

My buddy's got a feral Salamanders renegade band, check it out. Good ideas in there.

[Cptn. Palladorus]

I had an idea for a dreadnought conversion that I haven't found a way to incorporate into my army but would work well in yours. Take a lizardmen carnosaur and bionic it up, slap an assault cannon somewhere on it and put a marine riding on the back controlling it with a pair of massive chains as the reins.

 

More practically though, you should take very VERY few vehicles if any, and keep the number of heavy weapons to a minimum. Cleanse and Purify is probably a must so you can take the flamer/meltagun tac squads to make up for the lack of heavy weapons, and maybe No Mercy, No Respite also since they're even more savage and brutal than normal marines. Maybe for a Librarian familiar you could put a lizard from the old lizardmen swarms on his shoulder? Give him a bolter and the lizard makes it a bolter-flamer.

[Keyoz Devastrius]

First of all I want to thank you Brothers for your replies.

 

Stoicism is not part of Salamanders gene-seed, but their combat doctrine and probably would be passed on the young chapter if they would be trained by them, but yeah they got some time and battle experience to change their fighting tactics.

 

I know that Sallies are faster then normal people, and I have never seen their slow reflex as part of gene-seed,so its no problem to me.

 

I like the idea of precise planning of assaults. I don

[Hemal]

WHy not use the Space Wolves Codex, and replace Fenrisian wolves with say - the archiuve Cold Ones? (the ones that look like Deinonychus - I refuse to say they look like Velociraptors cos raptors are the size of an emu, not the monstrosities depicted in Jurassic Park...!)

 

The all teh wargear will have to be given suitably "reptilian" names - but you'll obviosuly have to have teh Space Wolvbes translation handy for it.

 

The whole "reptilian" theme doesn't menan that the chapter must come from the Salamanders gene pool - just look at the head-hunting Mortifactors against the Puritan White Consuls - both share Ultramarines gene-seed...

 

The whole reptilian and CC oriented thing could come about from recruiting from a world where large reptile-like "dragons" are venerated as gods or kin of gods (much like the Fenrisian Wolves are). perhaps Vulkan himself had come to the world during the Crusade and recruited warriors from the planet to his Legion, and maybe left vestiges of a Promethean-type cult there, with suitable respect for the big scaly-skinned beasts the inhabitants live amongst.

 

The use of a suitably modelled Carnosaur is a great idea, but the most effective way of doing this type of chapter would be to use smaller models as wolf-analogs, and larger creatures as analogs to, say, bikes. (e.g use the old Cold ones as Wolf analogs, and the new Lizardmen or the intermediate "godzilla" Dark Elf Cold-Ones as mounts for space amrines instead of bikes..). A Stegadon could be used as something like a heavy-weapons mount, e.g. the Whirlwind, though I don't like using biologicals as a replacement for armoured vehciles..if your opponents allow, you could model them using the Tyranid bio-weapon rules.

[Keyoz Devastrius]

(more like pre-heresy Lunar Wolfs then Space Wolfs)

Feral but still quite codex like salamanders(yes it has to be them). Saying feral I did not ment to say they cant use machines,and must replace them with animals.The bionic carnosaur dread isn

[Hemal]

Hmm, I think by Feral, you mean "draped with scaly skin" rather than feral as in Space marines gone native..

 

I can see that..

In which case, there isn't actually much you need.

 

The majority of combat-orientation is based NOT on the parent chapter, but it appears to be based on the customs and traditions of the homeworld. Exceptions to this are the Dark Angels unforgiven, who drive out the whole concept of identity, teh Black templars, who have the righteous fury seemingly implanated through training and psychosis techniques, and other fleet based chapters, where recruits can be drawn from large numbers of worlds, really in order to tie the recruits tiogether.

 

The Mrtifactors come from a planet where the inhabitants are all really quite obsessed with headhunting, so this has pervaded the chapter. As I stated previously, the Promethean Cult mayhave been introduced to a backwater world by Vulkan during the Crusade, and when a founding happened, a marine chapter was created on that world, not necessarily of Salamanders gene seed, it could be gene-seed unknown, but adopting the teachings and ethics of the Promethan cult, or the corruption of the cult that may have developed on that planet over a period of time.