DIY chapter - Crux Revenant W.I.P.

[Lord Luther]

I can definately use some help in this. I have read through some of the various threads and figured I might as well jot mine down and start getting some feedback. I realize some of the basic background fluff is going to be a bit cliche, but I am still looking for hte twist to help it along.

 

Outline that I have so far is:

 

 

Name: Crimson Templars (default until something better emerges)

Geneseed: Unknown (also default)

Chapter symbol/colour scheme: Well, I did my best with my avatar, They are base coat black with Scab Red as the main color, pearl white for shoulder pads and red maltese cross. Purity seals get painted Scorpion Green to contrast with all the red.

Homeworld: Here is one of the parts I'm needing assistance with. Thinking possibly feral though I'm not sure the differances between the various types. Perhaps some light can be shed later.

Area of Operations: Another mystery.

Combat Doctrine: Ranged combat paired with ambush tactics.

Organization: They have a few variation on the codex in response to adaptation.

Beliefs: I know they venerate the dead, but not sure to what extent. Still working on some of this.

 

Chapter Traits: Heed the Wisdom of the Ancients, See, but don't be seen.

Chapter Flaws: Flesh Over Steel, We Stand Alone

 

Heed the Wisdom of the Ancients - One of the few practices that has survived since the chapters founding. Those who have come before are revered and honored. As such this influences an increase of dreadnaughts.

 

See, but not be seen - Tactic developed to facilitate survival. Either due to homeworld or perhaps some past battle campaign. Maybe both. :P

 

Flesh over Steel - Just made sense with a chapter that worked as more ambush tactics. Vehicles tend to be a bit harder to hide. Same thought so are Dreadnaughts, but they are fallen comrades whereas a tank is not.

 

We Stand Alone - This one sort of stemmed from the fact I usually don't take allies, but work well with the basic concept so far. Ambush tactics tend to require some serious training and having others unskilled along tend to muck up the plans. This can also tie into the Flesh over Steel as they like to limit their contact with the Adeptus Mechanicas as well.

 

 

As for fluff, I really have very little and most was forming as I wrote this. Being a lost chapter seems a bit overused. Current thought sees their homeworld as a start for their divergence, perhaps this was planned and their primary task is to maintain a foothold on certain planets until others arrive upon which they move to the next location leaving the current task to a chapter more suited for a full scale conflict such as the Ultramarines or Black Templars. Just some thoughts, please any and all feedback is welcomed. I've found that getting a dialog going is one of the best ways for me to think and be creative. Btw. I can really use help with the name. Crimson Templars sounds okay, but I know something better will fit. The maltese cross is a generic enough symbol that it can go with just about anything.

 

Had a thought while formatting the text, perhaps the homeworld is a former battleground. The chapter in a sense sees itself as caretakers of those lost in battle there.

 

As far as geneseed goes, I really have no clue. Considerring keeping it as Unknown.

 

As soon as I can I will see about getting some pics of the current minis I have painted.

 

Edit:

Worked up a paint scheme in paint shop pro thanks to Tim Wollweber's blank template pic.

 

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b325/kinseyfs/40k/OrphansColors.jpg

[Commissar Molotov]

Alright, alright. You've got a lot of the basics down, which is certainly good. I think at the moment the thing your chapter lacks is character. That's not meant as an insult, and I hope you don't take it as such. I simply mean that your chapter needs a little more effort put into it to make it three-dimensional. These are the guys you'll be using on the battlefield. Hopefully we can help you care for them. :P

 

Now,a chapter can get their character from a number of sources. Their gene-seed is one - their progenitor legion, their primarch and the marines that trained them can all impart some measure of influence upon them. Their homeworld is another. Their culture, experiences and the like will all contribute to the character of the marines. The Mortifactors likely wouldn't be as grim, dark and death-obsessed if they didn't recruit from the grim, dark and death-obsessed people of Posul. :) Thirdly, the history of your chapter can influence their character, attitudes and tactics.

 

So there's three areas that it might help to focus on.

 

You've made several comments regarding infiltration, subterfuge, ambush and the like. What's caused the chapter to take up these tactics? Have they recruited from a world where these skills are already in evidence? Did the chapter have to take up stealth tactics as a result of a previous campaign? Were they taught or influenced by a stealth/fast attack chapter like the Raven Guard?

 

You've also mentioned that they venerate the dead. To what sort of extent? Ancestor worship? If they worship the dead, would they refuse to use dreadnoughts, to allow the dead to rest - or would they use a lot of dreadnoughts, to allow the dead to walk among them once more? Would Librarians be used to conduct seances or the like to gain wisdom from the dead?

 

Personally, I can't see the 'Crimson Templars' working with a sneaky chapter, as 'Templars' tends to connote knights with their banners and the like. Perhaps the maltese cross could signify something in the past of your chapter, or a legend on the homeworld? Perhaps the chapter used to be brazen and proud, and later adopted sneaky tactics?

[Lord Luther]

Alright, alright. You've got a lot of the basics down, which is certainly good. I think at the moment the thing your chapter lacks is character. That's not meant as an insult, and I hope you don't take it as such. I simply mean that your chapter needs a little more effort put into it to make it three-dimensional. These are the guys you'll be using on the battlefield. Hopefully we can help you care for them. :P

 

No insult taken at all. Part of the reason for posting is their lack of character and could use some feed back to help the character to form.

 

Now,a chapter can get their character from a number of sources. Their gene-seed is one - their progenitor legion, their primarch and the marines that trained them can all impart some measure of influence upon them. Their homeworld is another. Their culture, experiences and the like will all contribute to the character of the marines. The Mortifactors likely wouldn't be as grim, dark and death-obsessed if they didn't recruit from the grim, dark and death-obsessed people of Posul. :) Thirdly, the history of your chapter can influence their character, attitudes and tactics.

 

So there's three areas that it might help to focus on.

I am wanting to keep the whole gene-seed progenitor aspect as more of a lurking in the background. It gets used quite a bit and frankly feels more like an excuse in most cases. Instead I am wanting to focus more on the homeworld. What I am envisioning is a war-torn landscape caused by an invasion of some sort. Certain areas are purposely left untouched in rememberance of the past events. I am seeing the chapter recruiting from settlements and colonies inhabiting the moons of the planet with only the chapter residing upon the planet itself. The history is something I need to work on. Being former battlefield, I chalk up the unknown gene-seed to those records being lost. Not sure if this is feasible, but it is my current excuse.

 

The planet starts as a hive world until the invasion. What invades, not sure. I would like to stay away from Chaos and Tyranids. After the war, the planet hold little resources to rebuild and sustain the current population which cause a desperate exodus to the orbitting moons and perhaps a second planet within the same system. This is all still forming, but at least it is forming.

 

You've made several comments regarding infiltration, subterfuge, ambush and the like. What's caused the chapter to take up these tactics? Have they recruited from a world where these skills are already in evidence? Did the chapter have to take up stealth tactics as a result of a previous campaign? Were they taught or influenced by a stealth/fast attack chapter like the Raven Guard?

 

I see these tactics arising as a means to survival. During said conflict upon their homeworld, they were forced to change combat philosophies as the former were not working well against the invaders. Perhaps this info can help shed some light on their invaders. A force that would be hard to take down standing toe to toe. I see this behavior as a definate reaction than intentional focus.

 

You've also mentioned that they venerate the dead. To what sort of extent? Ancestor worship? If they worship the dead, would they refuse to use dreadnoughts, to allow the dead to rest - or would they use a lot of dreadnoughts, to allow the dead to walk among them once more? Would Librarians be used to conduct seances or the like to gain wisdom from the dead?

I was thinking on sort of a ancestral worship. With parts of their history lost they sort of cling to what they do have. As far as dreadnaught, I see and decorate them as if they were walking shrines. A reminder of what was lost and those who had fallen. Now the Librarian conducting seances to gain wisdom from the dead is a really nifty idea which I think fits in with what I already have. They work on contacting the dead to regain that which was lost from their origin and history. This would also bring in part of why they don't mingle with others, pretty sure the Inquisition would frown on such practices.

 

Personally, I can't see the 'Crimson Templars' working with a sneaky chapter, as 'Templars' tends to connote knights with their banners and the like. Perhaps the maltese cross could signify something in the past of your chapter, or a legend on the homeworld? Perhaps the chapter used to be brazen and proud, and later adopted sneaky tactics?

 

Strangely that would be fitting as the my choices for the chapter did not start with them being sneaky and sort of shifted and I began to think more on the chapter itself. Originally, they had Scions of Mars and Eye to Eye with Honor the wisdom of the Ancients. Strangely enough part of the change came about from having difficulties in constructing Tech Marine leader model and the thought, "What if I take something other than Scions of Mars?" Something with more depths started to emerge which lead me to posting.

 

Hmmmm.......perhaps Sons of the Sanguine Cross? or maybe Caretakers of the Sanguine Cross? or maybe something other than Sanguine Cross? Ooooooo.....Orphans of the Sanguine Cross. Ties in with their not knowing their progenitor chapter.

 

btw Thanks, anything and everything helps.

[Commissar Molotov]

Personally, I tend to be anti-'records missing', though work by REFUSE and others has shown that it can add to a chapter. I just think that if a chapter's going to lose anything, it wouldn't be which primarch they're descended from. Every marine would likely be instilled with their chapter legends... and even if some catastrophe occured, they'd be able to tell knew marines "Hey, that Dorn guy? He's our primarch. Cool dude. He really was." Your chapter can still know they're Ultramarines successors without that riding rough-shod over their character, or somehow making your chapter less characterful. In fact, if anything, it grounds them more into the setting, by giving them a link to the past.

 

I do like the idea of a planet turned into a graveyard, which the marines fastidiously take care of. Perhaps the moons are host to some miners or the like? That'd breed strong people that'd be good marine stock. Perhaps you could take a leaf out of Krieg's book. Perhaps the planet was irradiated during nuclear war? Something similar which brough about an exodus from their homeworld?

 

If a Librarian is conducting seances with the 'other side', there's always the chance that they might contact something they didn't want to. This could lead to possession of your Librarians by daemons. Perhaps the Librarians conduct their seances under heavy guard, and if anything untoward happens, the librarian is killed to prevent a daemon manifesting. Of course, such activities would have to be kept secret from the Inquisition.

 

You're definately on the track towards an interesting chapter, though.

[Apemantus]

I think the main thing is not to be afraid of doing something different in terms of background (though I'd stay away from the single chapter saving the whole Imperium thing.) some people prefer woman space marines (nuff said) others (like my Steel Templars) have a chapter that are allies with Xenos, though people that go down that line often place their chapters in a forgotten region of space or on the eastern fringe where they are cut off from the rest of the Imperium and away from prying eyes. The other side of the coin is to have a normal chapter but which has a slight twist to it, It's hard coming up with an idea someone else hasn't thought of, which i think is one off the reasons why people create exotic chapters

[Lord Luther]

Personally, I tend to be anti-'records missing', though work by REFUSE and others has shown that it can add to a chapter. I just think that if a chapter's going to lose anything, it wouldn't be which primarch they're descended from. Every marine would likely be instilled with their chapter legends... and even if some catastrophe occured, they'd be able to tell knew marines "Hey, that Dorn guy? He's our primarch. Cool dude. He really was." Your chapter can still know they're Ultramarines successors without that riding rough-shod over their character, or somehow making your chapter less characterful. In fact, if anything, it grounds them more into the setting, by giving them a link to the past.

 

Well, the records missing is more of a after thought really. Thinking history wise, they were never told or were from that darned Cursed Founding and the records stating this have been lost. Either way, they don't know, and no one is telling them anything. In response, they cut most ties to everyone else and are looking for the answers themselves. Other ideas besides the Cursed Founding would be helpful. I see that come up a bit as well. Any other reasons possibly why a chapter would not be told who their progenitor was?

 

I do like the idea of a planet turned into a graveyard, which the marines fastidiously take care of. Perhaps the moons are host to some miners or the like? That'd breed strong people that'd be good marine stock. Perhaps you could take a leaf out of Krieg's book. Perhaps the planet was irradiated during nuclear war? Something similar which brough about an exodus from their homeworld?

I like the mining part, but as for the homeworld. I see it not as an inability to rebuild, but more of a refusal to rebuild. The chapter is still searching the homeworld for information that may still be buried within the ruins as part of their caretaking duties. Though not irradiated, it would still be relatively uninhabitable due to left over ordinance and perhaps their are still pockets of the invaders left. Hmmmm.....maybe the invaders were a genestealer cult that managed to remain hidden until it could become serious threat. Instead of the mass exodus, perhaps the main population upon the planet had to be purged leaving only the offworld mining colonies from which to recruit.

 

If a Librarian is conducting seances with the 'other side', there's always the chance that they might contact something they didn't want to. This could lead to possession of your Librarians by daemons. Perhaps the Librarians conduct their seances under heavy guard, and if anything untoward happens, the librarian is killed to prevent a daemon manifesting. Of course, such activities would have to be kept secret from the Inquisition.

 

Perhaps the daemon prevention could be a second function of the chaplains. Maybe even a type of special unit of space marines. Hmmm.....I could name a Close combat terminator squad something and still use the same rules. I'm getting the spiffy storm shields from FW and they just scream, "we do something special."

 

You're definately on the track towards an interesting chapter, though.

 

Thanks, it helps to have a good sounding board. At somepoint I am going to have to start coming up with names. That should be fun. Any suggestions on where would be a good spot for this planet to exist?

[Lord Luther]

I think the main thing is not to be afraid of doing something different in terms of background (though I'd stay away from the single chapter saving the whole Imperium thing.) some people prefer woman space marines (nuff said) others (like my Steel Templars) have a chapter that are allies with Xenos, though people that go down that line often place their chapters in a forgotten region of space or on the eastern fringe where they are cut off from the rest of the Imperium and away from prying eyes. The other side of the coin is to have a normal chapter but which has a slight twist to it, It's hard coming up with an idea someone else hasn't thought of, which i think is one off the reasons why people create exotic chapters

 

 

Most definately, the first chapter I looked at was Dark Angels and I like them, but they are not my creation. It isn't my story. It almost feels like I am cheating if I take a premade chapter. Now this is just me, others feel diferantly. I am seriously considerring taking notes during my games as to what happens when, so if I feel like it I can start writing possible "battle" fiction to add some flavour to the army as well. I forsee them getting their own website here in the near future. Once I get things hammered down more.

 

I am like Orphans of the Sanguine Cross more and more. Perhaps the Sanguine Orphans for short or maybe just those "dark red guys". Formerly Sons of the Crimson Cross? Name was change to reflect their feeling of abandonment and the blood shed.

[Commissar Molotov]

Well, the records missing is more of a after thought really. Thinking history wise, they were never told or were from that darned Cursed Founding and the records stating this have been lost. Either way, they don't know, and no one is telling them anything. In response, they cut most ties to everyone else and are looking for the answers themselves. Other ideas besides the Cursed Founding would be helpful. I see that come up a bit as well. Any other reasons possibly why a chapter would not be told who their progenitor was?

 

But that's exactly a problem (insofar as it is a problem)... it is just an after-thought, and I'm not sure it adds to their character. Perhaps the question ought to be: 'Any reasons why your chapter needs to not know who their primogenitor was?'

 

What does it add to your chapter?

[Lord Luther]

But that's exactly a problem (insofar as it is a problem)... it is just an after-thought, and I'm not sure it adds to their character. Perhaps the question ought to be: 'Any reasons why your chapter needs to not know who their primogenitor was?'

 

What does it add to your chapter?

 

From my viewpoint, a sense of mystery and an open end for me to expand on as the chapter progresses. I see the chapter more as a character in a role-playing game. As a general rule I try to always leave one aspect open for future development. Where these details come from? Who knows, but it allows me an area to expand on. Also gives them a reason for their searching. A reason to actively go beyond their homeworld without being commanded. I guess it's part of their motivation.

[Commissar Molotov]

Well, I can understand your comments regarding RPGs; I'm admin on a 40k RPG site. Motivation for your chapter is always a key element. I'm not so sure the missing name of your primarch is what you need to be sending your chapter out searching. If your chapter had some sort of catastrophe on its' homeworld in the distant past that led to a lack of knowledge and the like, then I can see a lot of their history being lost. I just don't think the name of the primarch would be one of those things that could easily be lost. Every single marine in the chapter would have the name of their primarch drilled into him, and they're unlikely to forget it. Every marine passes their information down to those that follow on.

 

However, if the chapter was created outside of the normal process - for example, if they were created as part of the Adeptus Mechanicus' experiments in the 21st Founding, they may never have known who their primarch was. They could have been trained by the Inquisition or the like. That breaks the 'chain' of knowledge. Parallels could almost be drawn with the X-Men character Wolverine, searching for information on the Weapon-X project that turned him into a killing machine.

[Lord Luther]

Well, I can understand your comments regarding RPGs; I'm admin on a 40k RPG site. Motivation for your chapter is always a key element. I'm not so sure the missing name of your primarch is what you need to be sending your chapter out searching. If your chapter had some sort of catastrophe on its' homeworld in the distant past that led to a lack of knowledge and the like, then I can see a lot of their history being lost. I just don't think the name of the primarch would be one of those things that could easily be lost. Every single marine in the chapter would have the name of their primarch drilled into him, and they're unlikely to forget it. Every marine passes their information down to those that follow on.

 

However, if the chapter was created outside of the normal process - for example, if they were created as part of the Adeptus Mechanicus' experiments in the 21st Founding, they may never have known who their primarch was. They could have been trained by the Inquisition or the like. That breaks the 'chain' of knowledge. Parallels could almost be drawn with the X-Men character Wolverine, searching for information on the Weapon-X project that turned him into a killing machine.

 

After my last response, I started thinking more. What if they are in a sense an experiement of a sorts. Part of this is stemmed from REFUSE thread. The chapter is being used to see what traits are taught and what are gained from the gene-seed itself. After being taught by the Imperium (thinking reps from the Ultramarines they are the standard) and established on their homeworld, they were pretty much left without interferrance. The genestealer cult was able to grow to an unusual size due to this intentional neglect. Upper eschelons were using it as a test, which was the reason their were no reinforcemnts. If failed, they would have the stand-by fleet purge the planet and move on. All of the real resources came from the moons anyways. It's all a test, but the Orphans don't know and how they respond when it finally comes light could be their final exam so to speak.

 

Thoughts?

[Lord Luther]

Okay the test thing might be stretching a bit far, but it's a thought.

 

Now, I have done some searching concerning the name of their homeworld. What I have found is two translation one of the English - Latin dictionaries translated for graveyard. Capulus and Cimeterium. Now as I don't know Latin myself, I am curious on what the actual translation comes out to be. I can recognize that cimeterium is the root for our modern cemetary, but what it actually translates to remains a mystery. As for Capulus, I am completely clueless and am more likely to go with it as it is not readily apparent as to what it means.

 

Also still looking for a spot to place this homeworld.

 

Now about their origin and not knowing their gene-seed/progenitor. You had mentioned the 21st founding. What sort of things went wrong with this founding? How mild or severe were the effects? If I were to use this as my chapter founding, would need to come up with some sort of genetic flaw for the chapter as well?

 

Will think more on this while I am out and about today.

[Lord Luther]

However, if the chapter was created outside of the normal process - for example, if they were created as part of the Adeptus Mechanicus' experiments in the 21st Founding, they may never have known who their primarch was. They could have been trained by the Inquisition or the like. That breaks the 'chain' of knowledge. Parallels could almost be drawn with the X-Men character Wolverine, searching for information on the Weapon-X project that turned him into a killing machine.

 

Now I had some reservations on this, but after reading some other post concerning the 21st founding, it sort of fits what I am wanting for the chapter, namely not knowing their progenitor and having to purge their own homeworld would count as cursed in my book. It would also give them plenty of time to be established before the purging and the resources to recover afterwards. So in this case, the 21st founding just makes sense and fits into hole I developed.

[Race Bannon]

Had a thought while formatting the text, perhaps the homeworld is a former battleground. The chapter in a sense sees itself as caretakers of those lost in battle there.

 

As far as geneseed goes, I really have no clue. Considerring keeping it as Unknown.

Having the planet be a previous battleground is an excellent idea! The battle could have been truely cataclysmic to cause outrageous amounts of death, and the Chapter as caretakers is original (at least to me). I would run with this.

 

Concerning geneseed, I agree with Molotov. Very few Chapters (by GW's reckoning) have no records of their orgin. This can lead the story to be developed into other avenues but having the Chapter look for it's origins takes away from everything else they are doing. If their own records are lost (destroyed on the planet?) then someone in the Adeptus Terra knows. If too much time has passed then no one in the galaxy could know. And what Space Marine is going to spend their time digging through records on Terra?

 

Alternatively,

The chapter is being used to see what traits are taught and what are gained from the gene-seed itself. After being taught by the Imperium (thinking reps from the Ultramarines they are the standard) and established on their homeworld, they were pretty much left without interferrance.

 

Run with this. Why not? The galaxy is a BIG place and there are at least 1,000 Chapters. If you want individualism then why not have your Chapter be the *only* Chapter this has happened to? The Imperium would be very interested to see what results may happen. Since they are Space Marines I don't imagine the Imperium would take chances to do such experiments often. The 21st Founding was enough! And now the Imperium has more problems then it can count. Lookingat Forge World "Anphelion Project" is an example of a necessary experiment gone horribly wrong. And it cost the Imperium. But still, the galaxy is a BIG place - the events there will probably be forgotten quickly.

 

 

Now, what's in a name? Everything.

I have done some searching concerning the name of their homeworld. What I have found is two translation one of the English - Latin dictionaries translated for graveyard. Capulus and Cimeterium. Now as I don't know Latin myself, I am curious on what the actual translation comes out to be. I can recognize that cimeterium is the root for our modern cemetary, but what it actually translates to remains a mystery. As for Capulus, I am completely clueless and am more likely to go with it as it is not readily apparent as to what it means.

In my opinion the answer is, "What do you like?" I would pick Cimeterium or Cimeterius. It's close enough to cemetary and fits the theme of graveyard caretakers. As for it's actual translation ... does that really matter? If it does then you might start to experience unneeded stress. The name for the planet is right there :D

 

... but after reading some other post concerning the 21st founding, it sort of fits what I am wanting for the chapter ...

 

Exactly! If you say that to yourself then you have solved a problem. You have done some research (bonus!) and what you are looking for is right there ... again. Run with that!

 

The trick now ... how to write it all so it flows, makes sense, is accurately related to GW Canon and still is original and "yours"!

 

This is just what I was thinking ... :lol:

[Lord Luther]

I have been doing some thought on the chapter recently. First off, I like the having to purge their home-world. It adds to the chapter history. Second, on their gene-seed, I am thinking of going with Dark Angels as there progenitor. However it is clear their are only those stated that are Unforgiven, so I am some what safe in deviating from the standard DA lists. For fluff wise I am figuring they were trained by a differant chapter and during the purge had a mentality change. I am keeping Honor the Wisdom of the Ancients, but am dropping the See, but do not be seen. As nice as it would be to have infiltrate, I just don't see it fitting in with the chapter. Now with having only one deviation, I dropped the Flesh over Steel. Though it sort of fit, it didn't really. This leaves We stand alone as the drawback, which makes sense for a DA successor and a chapter that had to purge their own homeworld.

 

As for a name, been thinking heavily on that. The current is too long and partially fits the chapter. The new name I have been contemplating is Crux Revenant. Crux being the founding word for Crusader literally meaning cross and Revenant being one who returns from the dead. It just seemed fitting considerring their homeworld is now a cemetary.

 

Why the change? Well, I have always enjoyed the DA fluff, but always wanted to create my own chapter. By making it a successor that is not an Unforgiven, I can tie the two together. The tie currently is purely fluff at the moment, however, should the new DA rules suit me, it won't take much to convert them.

 

My next delimna is the paint scheme. I am trying to figure out how to incorporate DA colors without saying, those are funny looking Black Templars. I suppose I could just shift the scab red to a dark green and the fortress grey to bleached bone, though their tabards are already bone. Maybe tabards and eagles could be bleached bonelike below. Any thoughts?

 

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b325/kinseyfs/40k/CruxRevCol.jpg