CimSaint Posted May 15, 2006 Share Posted May 15, 2006 This is probably about the 12th reincarnation of my DIY Chapter fluff, but I've got a decent amount of faith in this attempt. :ph34r: This is the beginning of my Origins & History section, which covers the first few centuries of the Patrons of Cimmeria's existence. Some notes on the article and hints on what comes next: - I plan on writing a much shorter and more concise Index Astartes article for the Chapter, but this is kind of my "fluff bible" re: the Patrons of Cimmeria. I'm an outline nut and my "decent" (IMHO) writing is done with a lot of planning. Hence this ridiculously long project. - It's a first draft and some of the later parts were written a few minutes ago at 1am PST. Bear in mind. ^_^ - This fluff is a major part of the larger Ma'gog Sector, where all of my armies and fluff is based. I'm also writing what will probably turn out to be a short novel sized piece of fiction putting the meat on the bones of my fluff set in this article. It will run on a dual time setting, detailing the events in the story and "current" events set in the first decade of M.42. This is why there is so little detail about the Patrons themselves; they get fleshed out much more thoroughly in the later part of the History section and other parts (Organization, Homeworld, Beliefs, etc.) This is all -My vision for the Patrons of Cimmeria is of a Chapter striving to maintain the vision of the Emperor and the Primarchs in a sector of the galaxy plagued by inner-strife and division. Of course, just determining what that vision is extremely difficult, especially when you're being manipulated by messed with by every xenos race, Ecclesiarch and Inquisitor from Cimmeria to Terra. They're also of Dark Angels gene-seed, and this has a major effect on the culture and attitude of the Chapter. Think Angels monastic tendency, secretive and paranoid nature- just without the Fallen. A lot of Thorian fluff will play in the Chapter, though they won't be running around trying to find the "Star Child". Lots of conspiracy and intrigue, religous themes and "plans within plans." Mainly, I just wonder if this is a semi-engaging concept. Like anyone, I'd like to have a DIY Chapter that's "mine" and that's interesting for people to play against. If anyone actually gets through all this, and wants to know more, I'll gladly post more. If not, I'll just wait and post the more concise article. The reason I post this now is so that I can save myself further work if the idea is a total dud. So, on to the fluff. +++ History Origins The Patrons of Cimmeria Chapter of the Astartes were founded in the dark times of the Age of Apostasy, presumably by some order of the crazed High Lord Vandire. With the fall of the arch-tyrant’s regime, many of his adminstration’s physical records were destroyed or sealed by the Inquisition or by the incoming officials loyal to Sebastian Thor. As such, official information regarding the Chapter is limited to what has been collected in more recent centuries. The closed, monastic culture of the Patrons also presents difficulties to Imperial scholars attempting to learn more about the Chapter. The Patrons of Cimmeria themselves do maintain a documented history that stretches to the Chapter’s earliest days. Librarians of the Chapter are found in every sizeable force, tasked with the responsibility of recording the Chapter’s actions for posterity. A large database is maintained at the heart of the Patron’s fortress-monastery in the Librarium, and it is here that the true history of the Patrons of Cimmeria can be found. Founded as the Patrons of the True Voice, the Chapter annals record the presentation of the battle barge Blade of Light as the official inception of the Patrons in 246.M36. The Chapter initially consisted of fewer than 70 marines, not including a handful of technical specialists and advisers on loan from other Astartes Chapters. What is initially curious (and a clue into the possible motivations for the Chapter’s creation) about the Patrons founding is the appointment of Confessor Mor D’ Lok as de facto commander of the Chapter. The Confessor seems to have been assigned the spiritual oversight and indoctrination of the Patrons of the True Voice, though later entries in the Chapter’s history make it clear that Mor D’ Lok maintained the equivalent of a veto over all major decisions related to the Chapter. The fledgling Patrons and their fleet departed the forge world of Gryphonne IV and proceeded to the Eastern Fringe, where the authority of Vandire’s reign was being sorely tested. Over the following decades, the Patrons of the True Voice had proven themselves in combat on dozens of different occasions, but the growth of the Chapter had been worryingly slow. In 272.M36, the Patrons numbered only 164 battle-brothers; in the same time period most newly founded Chapters would be expected to have grown to the equivalent strength of three Codex companies. The texts of the space marines cite the command of the Ecclesiarchal appointee, the departure and loss of advisors as they were killed or recalled to their parent Chapters and extremely high casualty rates amongst newly inducted brethren as reasons for the slow growth of the Patrons. The Patrons also found it difficult to obtain consistent re-supply from the Adeptus Mechanicus, often being issued insufficient amounts of replacement munitions and equipment. This situation was not aided by the high casualty rate of the Chapter. In the closing decades of the 3rd century M.37, the Patrons of the True Voice arrived in what would become the Ma’gog Sector, a frontier region on the Eastern Fringe centered in the Torgaun System. Torgau Prime had been established by chartered captains and Rogue Trader interests as a base of operations for trade and exploratory expeditions along the frontier. As the presence of the Imperium had grown, outlying planets and systems were explored, with many worlds joining the Imperium through colonization or military conquest. Torgau Prime had grown in wealth and had proven to be a solid investment for its founders. As Imperial vessels traveled further into unexplored regions, they inevitably encountered hostile human civilizations and xenos species. Those Rogue Traders and merchants able to do so assembled what forces they could and requested military aid from the greater Imperium. Confessor Mor D’ Lok and the Patrons of the True Voice arrived in the Sector in response to a request by the sitting Cardinal on Torgau. By this time, the name of Sebastian Thor was relatively well known and the armies of Vandire were clashing with rebel supporters of Thor in many parts of the galaxy. A sect of Thorian supporters had emerged on the main world of the Nidaros System and threatened the authority Imperial Governor of planet. Nidaros III was a relatively knew addition to Imperium and was undergoing transformation into an agri-world. The rebellion had not yet turned violent, but measures taken by the local administration were quickly moving the planet towards civil war, and with the limited military resources of Ma’gog committed elsewhere, the supporters of the High Lord feared a chain reaction of rebellion if Thor’s supporters managed to gain a foothold in the region. Much of the activities of the Thorian rebels seemed to center around the so-called Saint Yosmani, a middle-aged priestess of a rural parish on Nidaros. The woman was an obscure minor official of the Ecclesiarchy who had accused the Bishop of Nidaros of moral decadence and abandoning the true worship of the Emperor. All attempts at capturing or assassinating Yosmani had failed, but with the arrival of the Patrons, it was hoped that the sect on Nidaros could be crushed before it spread to other systems. The Nidaros Rebellion The Blade of Light departed the Torgaun System en route to Nimbosa and days later the massive warship and its escorts dropped from the warp on the outskirts of the troubled system. As the fleet made its way in-system, the scanners aboard the Blade of Light detected a major surprise awaiting the Patrons of the True Voice. An Astartes battlefleet of the Angels of Retribution had taken up defensive positions around Nidaros III, the system’s primary world. Taken aback, the Patrons senior commander, Captain Damion, demanded an explanation for the presence of the Astartes ships. He was told that Nidaros had been placed under the protection of the Angels of Retribution and was curtly ordered to stand down. Confessor Mor D’ Lok, enraged by the audacity and arrogance of the Angels of Retribution, refused their demands and ordered the Blade of Light to continue its mission. Captain Damion, well aware that his fledgling command was seriously outnumbered and outgunned by the opposing Astartes force, refused, instead sending an envoy to the Angels of Retribution. Mor D’ Lok was infuriated. He attempted to have Damion stripped of command, but lacked the loyalty of any major force onboard the Blade of Light. Damion ordered him detained until dialogue had been established with the other fleet and confined him under guard to his quarters. For several days, the envoy sent by Damion met with not only the representatives of the Angels of Retribution Chapter, but also with Inquisitor Locksgeist of the Ordos Xenos (on whose behalf the Angels of Retribution were undertaking the mission) and the supposed Saint Yosmani herself. Locksgeist, like many agents of the Holy Inquisition, had been conducting operations in the galactic east for many years and had only paid cursory attention to the actions of Vandire and his followers. With the rise of Thor, however, Locksgeist had changed his focus from the study and extermination of xenos species to another agenda entirely. Rumors soon reached Locksgeist of a priestess on Nidaros III, blessed with the healing touch, and preaching the doctrine of the Confederation of Light. Intrigued, the Inquisitor journeyed to Nidarosa and met personally with Yosmani. The details of this initial exchange between the Saint and the Inquisitor are unknown, but it is clear that after this meeting Locksgeist had no doubt about the legitimacy of Yosmani as a Living Saint. Unfortunately for the priestess and her new-found ally, the ruling authorities of Nidaros (still loyal to Vandire) still persecuted the Saint and her followers. The situation became tense enough for Locksgeist to take drastic measures. He managed to make contact with the Angels of Retribution Chapter, who agreed to answer his call. Upon the arrival of the Astartes, the Imperial Governor of Nidaros promptly fled for Torgau, leaving the planet’s PDF to deal with the space marines and Inquisitor Locksgeist, who for all intents and purposes became the Governor of Nidaros. This was the state of affairs in the Nidaros System when the Patrons of the True Voice arrived. Captain Damion joined the Patrons envoy aboard the Angels of Retribution battle barge on the fourth day of negotiations. Only hours after he arrived, word reached the Astartes fleets that a massive force, including Astartes elements, was preparing to attack the High Lord on Holy Terra itself. For the second time in the Imperium’s history, civil war had come to Terra. Damion eventually offered the complete surrender of the Patrons of the True Voice to Inquisitor Locksgeist, renouncing any allegiance to the High Lord Vandire. Locksgeist allowed Damion and the Patrons of the True Voice to maintain their arms and appointed Captain Damion as the first Grand Master of the Chapter. Advisors were drafted from the Angels of Retribution and the complete reorganization of Chapter doctrine was initiated. Up to this point, the Vandire loyalists on Nidaros III had been content to await the outcome of the greater battles being waged around them. They were aware that the High Lord’s situation was grave, but also that a force of space marines had arrived to challenge the Inquisitor Locksgeist. As word reached them that the Patrons of the True Voice had sworn allegiance to Locksgeist and Yosmani, and that Confessor Mor D’ Lok had been taken captive, the PDF forces began to move against the followers of Yosmani. For many weeks, the fanatical followers of Vandire waged a guerilla campaign of terror and sabotage, causing untold damage to property and conducting “purges” of the population. Thousands of the loyalist zealots were killed by Yosmani’s followers and (especially) the Astartes, but the war was bitter and bloody. Eventually, Vandire’s loyalists were wiped out, and with the High Lord’s death on Terra, his administration began to crumble across the galaxy. After many decades of horror and oppression, the Reign of Blood had finally come to an end. On Nidaros III a new administration was sworn into power and a new charter established. Yosmani’s followers were organized into a small army, commanded by the Saint and Inquisitor Locksgeist. At the vanguard were the Angels of Retribution and the Patrons of the True Voice. The formidable fleet began the short journey to Torgau Prime to unseat the remaining elements of Vandire’s shattered regime. The War of Founding and the Rise of Saint Yosmani The orbital defenses of Torgau’s outlying planets surrendered without a fight, swearing allegiance to the new Imperial authority that was embodied by Yosmani and Locksgeist. Most of these worlds were governed by members of trade houses or descendants of Rogue Traders who had no personal loyalty to Vandire or his cronies on Torgau Prime and were more than happy to switch allegiance in return for being left alone. Only at Eddin’s Landing and Torgau Prime, the third and fourth planets of the system, put up a resistance. Eddin’s Landing was the seat of the Archbishop of Ma’gog, the most powerful individual in the region and a vehement Vandire loyalist. Through the Ecclesiarchy’s and the Administratum’s control of the religious and military center of Torgau, they managed to defend their holdings on each world for nearly eight months of bloody fighting through the streets and cathedrals of Eddin’s Landing and across the rolling grasslands and forests of Torgau Prime. The Patrons know this conflict as the War of Founding or as the 1st Penitent Crusade. The Chapter had had little time to integrate with the newly appointed specialists of the Angels of Retribution, but had found in itself a new fighting spirit on the battlefields of Eddin’s Landing. Grand Master Damion and other veterans remembered well the thousands of men and women they had destroyed as part of the Confessor Mer D’ Lok’s Wars of Faith, and they seethed for vengeance beyond the execution of the heretic Confessor. In addition, under the terms of their surrender, the Patrons of the True Voice were required to redeem themselves for past crimes through the act of these Penitent Crusades. Eventually, the loyalists of Vandire were defeated and executed for their crimes against the Imperium. New planetary governments were established while the Administratum was reorganized and Saint Yosmani was appointed as the Bishop of Torgau and the Cardinal of Ma’gog. Yosmani was quick to capitalize on her new found powers, mobilizing her own armies and continuing those campaigns and conflicts which had plagued Ma’gog before the rebellion. The Angels of Retribution departed the region, but Inquisitor Locksgeist and the Patrons of the True Voice remained in Ma’gog. The Chapter fought alongside the Saint Yosmani for nearly two centuries after the Torgaun Wars of the Apostasy, Grand Master Damion forming the head of her honor guard. To this day Saint Yosmani is a figure of legend; Imperial theologians and historians debate her true nature, while most layman worship her as a minor deity, an angel of the Emperor. It is clear that she was well-respected by the Patrons of the True Voice, and her impact is visible in the Chapter’s ceremonial tradition and historical texts. The wars fought during this time were wars of conquest and expansion; system after system fell to the Imperial armies of the Ma’gog Sector and the current structure of the Sector began to take shape. By the early decades of the fifth century M.36, the Patrons of the True Voice were campaigning scores of light years from Torgaun, conducting the 117th Penitent Crusade. The Administratum on Holy Terra had seen fit by this time to declare Ma’gog as an independent Sector in all respects, its capital on Torgau Prime. Ma’gog prospered in this period; Saint Yosmani ruled as Cardinal, uniting the citizens and stifling political discord. The Patrons of the True Voice, now a full 1000 strong, cut a swathe through heretical and traitorous human and xenos worlds and more worlds came under the Guiding Light of the Emperor of Mankind. 517.M36 the Patrons of the True Voice launched an assault against a cluster of stars in the northwestern quadrant of the Sector. Saint Yosmani (or so it is claimed) confided in Supreme Grand Master Damion (as he was now known) that she had foreseen a world of great importance, one lost from the Imperium many thousands of years ago. She had predicted a great battle the world and its surrounding planets, that the Imperium would win victory only through great sacrifice. The Patrons began their assault on the Cimmerian System in earnest, dispatching detachments to every major planetary body capable of harboring life. Orks were encountered on the moons orbiting the fifth through tenth planets and in large numbers on the second through fourth planets. The space marines set about butchering the orks, most of whom were of a primitive feral nature, lacking even the basic weaponry and advantages of major ork Waaghs! On Cimmeria III, while conducting seek-and-destroy missions in the mountains of the main continent, the Patrons discovered a small human settlement, well hidden and fortified, in the most remote valleys and peaks. The humans rejoiced upon seeing the space marines, declaring that the Emperor had at last answered their prayers. The Patrons, though confused, celebrated along with their new comrades and learned much about the nature of the orks on Cimmeria III. Even more stunning were the meticulous historical libraries of the Cimmerian people; indeed, their own records declared them to be the descendants of marooned Imperial crusaders who were forced to land on Cimmeria III millennia before and had never left. Saint Yosmani declared a day of Prayer and Rest in honor of the event, declaring it a blessing of the Emperor and a sign of His favor. Yosmani didn’t live through the end of festivities, felled in her chamber by an assassin’s blade. The Golden Era of Ma’gog, as it is known in regional lore, died with her. +++ -Saint Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/86906-the-patrons-of-cimmeria-origins-history/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhivago Posted May 15, 2006 Share Posted May 15, 2006 The Patrons of Cimmeria Chapter of the Astartes were founded in the dark times of the Age of Apostasy, presumably by some order of the crazed High Lord Vandire.Well, foundings are ordered by high lords of terra. And while Vandire was surely one of them, he would not have the authority. And even if he tried to get AM to do it, I doubt they would be willing to help him. (As AM generally don't interfere much with adeptus ministorum (i.e eccelsiarchy) add to that Vandire was apostate :). What is initially curious (and a clue into the possible motivations for the Chapter Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/86906-the-patrons-of-cimmeria-origins-history/#findComment-1006832 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dasleah Posted May 15, 2006 Share Posted May 15, 2006 I think it's feasible for High Lord Vandire to have founded a Chapter. He did assume several positions on the Council himself, and invariably placed those under his power in the other positions, to maintain his absolute power. The Adeptus Mechanicus probably might of come in the way, though. But I'm sure that Vandire had maybe a loyal Forge World pocketed away somewhere. Not all Marine Chapters have to made on Mars. I like the idea of a Thorian Chapter, too. ..skimming...... I'm always amazed that with all the rebelions in the Imperium, eveyone always forgets the Adeptus Arbites. That's kind of their point - to ensure loyalty and maintain the status quo within the Imperium. If there's something foul afoot, then the Arbites remove the problem. Inquisitors come and go of their own accord, but they're mainly an investigation-based force, leaving the paperwork and civil battles to the Arbites and local PDFs. Some good things there. Wish I had the attention span to read it all :tu: But well written nonetheless. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/86906-the-patrons-of-cimmeria-origins-history/#findComment-1007001 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CimSaint Posted May 16, 2006 Author Share Posted May 16, 2006 Well, foundings are ordered by high lords of terra. And while Vandire was surely one of them, he would not have the authority. And even if he tried to get AM to do it, I doubt they would be willing to help him. (As AM generally don't interfere much with adeptus ministorum (i.e eccelsiarchy) add to that Vandire was apostate tongue.gif.This is one of the things I like least about the history, but for reasons not yet disclosed, it either came down to this or an Inquisitorial faction. And I like this definately the best of two bad options. Vandire reached his position as Ecclesiarch AND Lord of the Administratum through blackmail, murder and other strong-arm tactics. He runs two of the most powerful arms of the Imperium, and the Mechanicus, Astartes and Inquisition are pretty much letting him do what he wants for 7+ decades. Those are probably the five most powerful organizations in the Imperium; he controls two and three are sitting on the sidelines. I'm aware that the Ad Mech wasn't likely to help out Vandire, but again, at this point he's THE most powerful individual in the universe. Coming up with a battle barge and a few dozen suits of power armor is a major undertaking sure. But so is becoming the Supreme Lunatic Dictator of the Imperium. I appreciate where you're comin' from, and I tried to play it down in the fluff by not saying Vandire said one day "let's make some space marines!" (having it come from his "administration") but I don't think it's too much of a stretch and I'm kind of stuck. And highly unusual.. even if decree passive was established then. Usually such tasks are reserved for veterans from other chapter that also form the core of newfound chapter. As far as we known chapters are found full-strength, someone correct me if I'm wrong... Other than that.. great... I feel bit iffy about eccleserchial character guiding chapter after apostasy (decree passive thing). So what about the homeworld ? The Confessor is supposedly a "spiritual" advisor, though he ends up calling the shots. The more I think about it, the less important the Confessor seems to the story. I just couldn't imagine Vandire's people going to so much trouble creating this Chapter and then setting it off without supervision. Should I drop the Confessor and maybe have something like a War of Faith accompanying them instead? Good point on the decree passive. I'd forgotten about it. After Vandire's fall, the Patrons undertake "penitent" crusades and fight alongside Yosmani, not FOR her. At this point the Chapter is completely independant. Sorry if that's not clear, I'll try to make it more so. I've never heard of a Chapter being created at full strength; I'd always imagined a new Chapter as between 50-75 Battle Brothers, though I think a lot of people would probably argue that it's more. The homeworld is Cimmeria, mentioned at the end of the article but not detailed. I'm workin' on it. :D I'm always amazed that with all the rebelions in the Imperium, eveyone always forgets the Adeptus Arbites. That's kind of their point - to ensure loyalty and maintain the status quo within the Imperium. If there's something foul afoot, then the Arbites remove the problem. Inquisitors come and go of their own accord, but they're mainly an investigation-based force, leaving the paperwork and civil battles to the Arbites and local PDFs. Some good things there. Wish I had the attention span to read it all msn-wink.gif But well written nonetheless. Oh, I'm sure that the Arbites were very active on Torgau, and there were probably some on Nidaros III as well. ;) I actually have a plan for a Witchhunters 'Civil Defense Force' army, based off of Torgau... but that's a long way off. But I'll be sure not to forget the Arbites when I write the "real" story of the Patrons founding. Thanks for the read guys, even if it's just a skim. Even if I don't use all of the suggestions, it's still appreciated. -Saint Well, foundings are ordered by high lords of terra. And while Vandire was surely one of them, he would not have the authority. And even if he tried to get AM to do it, I doubt they would be willing to help him. (As AM generally don't interfere much with adeptus ministorum (i.e eccelsiarchy) add to that Vandire was apostate tongue.gif. This is one of the things I like least about the history, but for reasons not yet disclosed, it either came down to this or an Inquisitorial faction. And I like this definately the best of two bad options. Vandire reached his position as Ecclesiarch AND Lord of the Administratum through blackmail, murder and other strong-arm tactics. He runs two of the most powerful arms of the Imperium, and the Mechanicus, Astartes and Inquisition are pretty much letting him do what he wants for 7+ decades. Those are probably the five most powerful organizations in the Imperium; he controls two and three are sitting on the sidelines. I'm aware that the Ad Mech wasn't likely to help out Vandire, but again, at this point he's THE most powerful individual in the universe. Coming up with a battle barge and a few dozen suits of power armor is a major undertaking sure. But so is becoming the Supreme Lunatic Dictator of the Imperium. I appreciate where you're comin' from, and I tried to play it down in the fluff by not saying Vandire said one day "let's make some space marines!" (having it come from his "administration") but I don't think it's too much of a stretch and I'm kind of stuck. And highly unusual.. even if decree passive was established then. Usually such tasks are reserved for veterans from other chapter that also form the core of newfound chapter. As far as we known chapters are found full-strength, someone correct me if I'm wrong... Other than that.. great... I feel bit iffy about eccleserchial character guiding chapter after apostasy (decree passive thing). So what about the homeworld ? The Confessor is supposedly a "spiritual" advisor, though he ends up calling the shots. The more I think about it, the less important the Confessor seems to the story. I just couldn't imagine Vandire's people going to so much trouble creating this Chapter and then setting it off without supervision. Should I drop the Confessor and maybe have something like a War of Faith accompanying them instead? Good point on the decree passive. I'd forgotten about it. After Vandire's fall, the Patrons undertake "penitent" crusades and fight alongside Yosmani, not FOR her. At this point the Chapter is completely independant. Sorry if that's not clear, I'll try to make it more so. I've never heard of a Chapter being created at full strength; I'd always imagined a new Chapter as between 50-75 Battle Brothers, though I think a lot of people would probably argue that it's more. The homeworld is Cimmeria, mentioned at the end of the article but not detailed. I'm workin' on it. ;) I'm always amazed that with all the rebelions in the Imperium, eveyone always forgets the Adeptus Arbites. That's kind of their point - to ensure loyalty and maintain the status quo within the Imperium. If there's something foul afoot, then the Arbites remove the problem. Inquisitors come and go of their own accord, but they're mainly an investigation-based force, leaving the paperwork and civil battles to the Arbites and local PDFs. Some good things there. Wish I had the attention span to read it all msn-wink.gif But well written nonetheless. Oh, I'm sure that the Arbites were very active on Torgau, and there were probably some on Nidaros III as well. ;) I actually have a plan for a Witchhunters 'Civil Defense Force' army, based off of Torgau... but that's a long way off. But I'll be sure not to forget the Arbites when I write the "real" story of the Patrons founding. Thanks for the read guys, even if it's just a skim. Even if I don't use all of the suggestions, it's still appreciated. -Saint Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/86906-the-patrons-of-cimmeria-origins-history/#findComment-1007062 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhivago Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 I've never heard of a Chapter being created at full strength; I'd always imagined a new Chapter as between 50-75 Battle Brothers, though I think a lot of people would probably argue that it's more.Well, the tsygotes are cloned until there are 1000 of them. (And this takes 55 years or so) So it would seem bit silly if the glands were left un-used... Not all Marine Chapters have to made on Mars. This is hazy memory, but I think that there were only two geneseed deposits in the imperium ? (And then Abaddon got one of them pillaged.) Then again, I might be entirely wrong. The Confessor is supposedly a "spiritual" advisor, though he ends up calling the shots. The more I think about it, the less important the Confessor seems to the story. I just couldn't imagine Vandire's people going to so much trouble creating this Chapter and then setting it off without supervision. Should I drop the Confessor and maybe have something like a War of Faith accompanying them instead? Or having the marines following him around for his wars. And then something happen that make them to doubt his purpose. But this raises other problem, IF Vandire ordered their creation by pulling some strings, I think he would have also at least tried to effect their psycho-conditioning to make the marines loyal for him. Then of course you could have saint dispelling this with 'divine intervention' . "Suddenly their eyes opened from the haze and they saw the full horror of their actions as 'guardians of humanity'. " or something like that :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/86906-the-patrons-of-cimmeria-origins-history/#findComment-1007141 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CimSaint Posted May 16, 2006 Author Share Posted May 16, 2006 What's funny is that that's still basically what happened... just without all the *SHAZAAM!* :D The impression that I wanted to give to 'early' Patrons was of a new Chapter's... well, innocence. I would think that they would go pretty much where they were told, asking how high they needed to jump along the way, as long as they bought in to the cause. This is where the Confessor would come in. In the beginning, he's gently reinforcing the "justice" of his cause, pointing out nests of "heresy", etc. At Nidaros, however, this changes. He demands a suicidal assault on another Astartes fleet, because he's a Vandire fanatic and that's how these crazies work (or so I'm trying to get across). And Damion makes a choice. The Patrons themselves don't know that it's wierd for a Confessor to be bossing them around; that's the way it's always been. Why do you think all those Astartes specialists from other Chapter's kept leaving. ;) :D This all serves a better thematic element later on as well; eventually, I want the Dark Angels paranoia and secrecy, but without the Fallen. This is a good excuse for it. "If they screwed us back then, what makes you think they're going to help us now?" After Yosmani dies, the Patrons do not get along well with the Ma'gog Sector for several hundred years... I could see there being two major desposits for gene-seed in the Imperium, but I would be surprised if those were the sole sources for gene-seed, period. I could see a whole planet being fortified by the Mechanicus to preserve a repository of a single Chapter's tithed gene-seed. Well, depending on the Chapter maybe. ;) If you can point me towards a fluff source for the founding of a Chapter, I would really appreciate it. I've always heard that a Chapter takes "about 50 years to reach full strength" and assumed that that meant a Chapter started out under-strength and developed as it gained experience. -Saint Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/86906-the-patrons-of-cimmeria-origins-history/#findComment-1007209 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhivago Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 If you can point me towards a fluff source for the founding of a Chapter, I would really appreciate it. I've always heard that a Chapter takes "about 50 years to reach full strength" and assumed that that meant a Chapter started out under-strength and developed as it gained experience. 50 years come from the calculation that raising one seed to two will take about 5 years or so... (this happens inside sedated prime-stock slave) so 5 years for 2, ten for 4 and so on ~55 for 1000. (The power of err... second power :wacko:) The process is repeated until we have 1000 seed-glands. Apparently other organ are easier to manufacture. This was mentioned in the same IA article that had all the marine organs named and so on... So that's the stroy of 50 years. For chapter that gets devasted by the war this could take slower as we can assume that getting killed will d Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/86906-the-patrons-of-cimmeria-origins-history/#findComment-1007325 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CimSaint Posted May 16, 2006 Author Share Posted May 16, 2006 Thanks for the info. :) I'll be makin' some changes and trying to track down a copy of that article. -Saint Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/86906-the-patrons-of-cimmeria-origins-history/#findComment-1007489 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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