Differences between the Successors

[Grand Master Belial]

Also I see no room for jumppacks or was that just an oversight?

In my mind, fast CC oriented warfare does not equal IronWing mobile tank warfare. Those two are quite different.

 

Greets Krewl

 

I see Jump Pack Assault Squads as the exception to the rule. Since they can use the Jump Pack to Deep Strike (at least in fluff, I think you can Deep Strike them in a game as well if allowed) and stay with the vehicles.

[Hemal]

Guys remember that per the fluff, the entire Adeptus Astartes goes around in rapid deployment vehciles, whether they be Rhinos, Razorbacks, Land Raiders or insertion via Drop-pod or Thunderhawk. Only in rare circumstances, e.g. stealth misions (such as the Scouts on Piscina) would a chaopter NOT deploy it's marines via armoured transport. The 40K battlefield is simply the "pointy end" of a skirmish - the battle-buses might be parked behind the front lines, or in the 2o zone just behind the firefight.

The whole Ironwing premise is also great, but according to the older fluff, and which I believe is still valid per Epic scaled rules, formations of battle-tanks ARE a valid deployment of Astartes armour. Whilst the Marine armour is prone to be dispersed supporting Infantry ops rather like the British and French deployment in WWII, there are certainly occassions where a Land Raider company or a Predator Detachment are fielded en-masse, as seperate formations to supporting troops, for the Guderian-style Blitzkrieg (although Blitzkrieg had as a key element armoured mchanised infantry as well - i.e. Space Marines!)

 

So a permanent such formation in the Dark Angels, the Ironwing, would be a divergence, but not a massive one. It would limit tanks to not being just an infantry support mechanism as they are in the 40K game, and would seriously hamper fielding an effective army as teh vehicle rules are cruddy.

[Hertz]

guys, guys....

 

I like the fact that you are trying to expand on the fluff and so... (I do, and I have AoR)

 

but dont you think you are going a "little" over the top? playing a successor chapter of the DA should be like playing DA, only with a another (cooler ;) ) coloursheme and some interesting ideas on behalf of the owner of the army... you are making DA and its successors more different than DA and BA :lol:

 

its easy to be caught up in something and overdo it, but restrain a little ;)

 

hope I dont come of as rude or a nay-sayer! ^_^

[Grand Master Belial]

but dont you think you are going a "little" over the top? playing a successor chapter of the DA should be like playing DA, only with a another (cooler :devil: ) coloursheme and some interesting ideas on behalf of the owner of the army... you are making DA and its successors more different than DA and BA :P

 

I have been trying to reign this in so that these would be DA Codex compliant. Originally, it was just a simple expansion of the fluff instead of the short blurb in the Codex. Then it grew to be a potential IA Article that can be used to Supplement the DA Codex to give a slightly different feel for each of the Successors. It might be over the top but it is fun to think up a different way to present an existing an awesome army.

[Wolf Lord Loki]

There's no indication that any of the Unforgiven have a home-world of operations, certainly any such homeworld would be the central focus of all the Unforgiven? Also, wouldn't having a home-world mean it is much more likely that someone could find out about the secrets of the Unforgiven? Fleet based chapeters can be massive - look at the Templars, they have small chapter-houses dotted around teh Imperium, but their entire chapter is based on ships and all materials of war are traded with the AM, requisitioned from Imeprial worlds or manufactured on-board forge ships. Given the Dark ANgels have one massive fortress monastery, and they recruit widely from amongst the planetary systems (probably the most cosmoploiatnchapter in terms of recruitment apart from perhaps the Templars and the Fists), I can see that the successors might confine their recruitment to particular sectors, and as "child" chapters they would be sanctioned by the Inner council to search for the Fallen in cretain sectors, whilst the DA formed a roaming catch-all...

 

Greetings!! I'm new to this particular forum being predominately a Wolves and White Scars man (hmm, way to make a good first impression, Stuart....). I have to say I found this topic particularly interesting seeing I like the dark background of the Dark Angels.

 

Might I make a suggestion about home worlds? I was thinking that instead of small chapter houses scattered all over the Imperium, you possibly had 3 or 4 Company monasteries situate around a few sectors. The principle of a company monasteries are that they much larger than a chapter house but smaller than a fortress monastery.

 

This would provide static bases for the Chapter and also give them the freedom to roam further afield than you might normally expect for a Chapter.

 

Someone suggested that a Homeworld would be a liablity if the Inquisition were watching their activitie, well smaller monasteries would enable them to out manover the Inquisition by switching there destinations with prisoners. It would show a greater degree of organisation that one would expect from the acolites of the Lions tactical genius and also that the inner sanctium of the chapter are in constant contact.

 

I do have a bit of a question though. How much contact to the Successors have with their parent Chapter? And do their different tactical approches cause any friction between them?

[Grand Master Belial]

Might I make a suggestion about home worlds? I was thinking that instead of small chapter houses scattered all over the Imperium, you possibly had 3 or 4 Company monasteries situate around a few sectors. The principle of a company monasteries are that they much larger than a chapter house but smaller than a fortress monastery.

 

This would provide static bases for the Chapter and also give them the freedom to roam further afield than you might normally expect for a Chapter.

 

You know, you just might have a good point. I'll stew on it for a while. I am planning on reverting the Successors to be DA Codex compliant. Though I'd prefer to elaborate on the background more.

 

I do have a bit of a question though. How much contact to the Successors have with their parent Chapter? And do their different tactical approches cause any friction between them?

 

The fluff has all of the Unforgiven gathering every so often. It is presided over by the SGM of the Dark Angels. My goal was to keep them tactically flexible as they have always been from when they were a Legion. The Ironwing and the like was to give them additional flavor. Besides, the level of piety and humility the Unforgiven have would curb a lot of their emotions. So no.

[Grand Master Belial]

Okay, with the campaign over. Time to get back to the multitudes of Fluff Writing projects. Here's a rehash with some new thoughts. I'll modify the first post later.

 

- ANGELS OF ABSOLUTION -

The brothers of the AoA appear to be a very close-knit chapter. (With the entire Chapter wearing Bone Armor, it is possible that the AoA have decided that the entire Chapter deserved to know the truth about the Fallen.) As such, they are not as secretive as the Dark Angels, except when attached to another force. Then the AoA become very tight-lipped.

 

More Commanders fear serving next to the AoA more than the Dark Angels. While the elite warriors of the Dark Angels' First Company tend to wander off when they wish, the entire Chapter of the AoA would do the same thing.

 

The Scouts of this chapter tend to be more apt a close combat and have a distinctly larger appearance than scouts of other chapters have. All it is said when questioned is that the Scouts use their increased strength to aid in their intelligence gathering. Considering the number of disappearing acts the AoA do during a Campaign, this is probably a testament of their Scout's skill in the Gathering of that Intelligence.

 

HOME WORLD

 

The AoA are a fleet based Chapter based on over a hundred ships. Three of their battle barges have been converted by their Techmarines to operate as travelling docks for the smaller vessels and as gathering points for the chapter.

 

COMBAT DOCTRINE

 

The AoA tend to stick close to the teachings of the Codex Astartes. The only deviation is that the squads will break apart during a mission into two demi-squads that will allow the squad to place their opposition into a deadly crossfire.

 

ORGANIZATION

 

The AoA is organized in a fashion similar to the Dark Angels. The difference arises in that there are no distinct reserve companies or Orders as they are know to the AoA. The 3rd through 9th Orders are all set up exactly like battle companies. The 2nd Order is organized similarly to the Ravenwing. Likewise the 1st Order or Archangels as they are known exclusively wear Terminator Armor like the Deathwing.

 

In deference to the Dark Angels Organization. The entire 1st Order is considered to be a part of the AoA's Inner Circle. This is explained by the nature that all brothers have knowledge of the Legion's shame.

 

Progression through the Order is done through Rites of Passage and Atonement. As each brother gains experience and knowledge they must also show through their actions both on and off the battlefield that they have purged themselves of that which allowed their Fallen brthren to be seduced. In this way the oldest and most experienced marines are in the 1st through 3rd Orders.

 

BELIEFS

 

BATTLECRY

"Atone your sins!"

 

POTENTIAL HOUSE RULES

None now

 

- ANGELS OF REDEMPTION -

If a person thought the piety of the Dark Angels were beyond reproach, and then they have not encountered the AoR.

 

The brothers of the AoR are not above any known method of purification in existence in the Imperium. While also fervent users of the Pain and Nerve Gloves, the brothers also participate in ritual scarring, flogging, or tattoos. Members of the AoR seem to show off tokens of shame more than laurels of valor. Even the parchment attached to their purity seals seems to convey shame and their desire to purify their souls.

 

On the battlefield, they fight with and eerie calm around them. Believing that they have a heightened tolerance to pain, this trait was recognized as a key factor to the success of the AoR destroying a Blackstone fortress when a few severely wounded marines were able to survive long enough to rig the station to explode. Their calm demeanor and high tolerance to pain also allowed the AoR be very adept in boarding and breaching actions. Actions that would typically chew through hundreds of guardsmen would be taken with relative ease by the AoR as they continue to push through the breach to make room for their brothers to come behind them before finally succumbing to their grievous wounds.

 

Only when fighting the forces of Chaos has the AoR shown anything resembling fervor or a sounding a battle cry. The First Company especially seems to come to life when arrayed against the forces of Chaos, though there are rare reports of them coming into their own when fighting against another Xenos.

 

HOME WORLD

 

As they are meant to be masters of breaching, they have a homeworld. However, like all Unforgiven, they recruit from several worlds. Homeworld could be a barren wasteland.

 

COMBAT DOCTRINE

 

Ideally more shooting based. With the Purity above all trait.

 

ORGANIZATION

 

Standard DA Organization

 

BELIEFS

 

Redemption through suffering.

 

BATTLECRY

 

"Pain is Weakness leaving the body!"

 

POTENTIAL HOUSE RULES

 

Vet Sergeants can take the Purity Above All trait at the same cost as an Apothecary Upgrade.

 

- ANGELS OF VENGEANCE -

Of all Second Founding Successors, the AoV seem to be the most reliable when in a mixed force, as long as the commander does not offend the marines. The brothers of the AoV have maintained the original legion's color scheme of black armor (including their fist Company) and it is rumored that they even continue the legion's original mission given during the Great Crusades. They can be readily called upon to lead an Explorator team to new worlds and to purge worlds of heretical and xenos taint. A duty they perform with zeal, for any offense to the Emperor or the Lion is an offense to them.

 

On the battlefield, their tactical cunning is beyond reproach. Any opponents of the AoV will quickly find themselves dying a slow death as supplies are cut off and their forces diminished. Though they tend to anger easy, they redirect their anger into prolonging their opponents suffering before they are vanquished beneath an AoV blade.

 

Of all the Unforgiven, the AoV had the best accounting of themselves during the most recent Black Crusade. Their deep-rooted hatred to Chaos and heretics had the AoV taking on any Chaos force that they could find even if they were greatly outnumbered.

 

HOME WORLD

 

Fleet-based

 

COMBAT DOCTRINE

 

They get in fast and doggedly pursue their quarry to the ends of the Imperium. They are based off the Ironwing.

 

ORGANIZATION

 

Like AoA, No Reserve Companies. All are equipped for rapid deployment and mobility.

 

BELIEFS

 

They perform a number of surgical strikes to in effect to kill their enemy by "Death of a Thousand Cuts." Every Chaplain on the field carriesa number of knives known as the "Blades of Reason." No high ranking official is safe from these blades should they be captured instead of killed.

 

BATTLECRY

 

"Death by a 1000 Cuts!"

"We are Vengeance!"

 

POTENTIAL HOUSE RULES

 

Marines may exchage their close-combat weapon for Lightning Claws at the same price as buying them from the Armory.

 

- - -

 

I will open this up for comments and other opinions. Perhaps this can then be compiled and added to the Fortress later on as three unique IA articles.

[Brother Adeaus]

Like the AoA fluffness. But, 2nd company being called the 'Seraphim'? Thats a Battle Sister title, I doubt a Marine would like to be compared to a Sister (not on the religon facet, I mean in other terms) and the 'Divide and Conquer' rule seems a bit... pointless since Tactical squads split into demi squads, or combat squads as the Codex calls them, on a regular basis.

 

Also, the use of say the 3rd 'Order' instead of Company is very nice. I like the idea of the whole Chapter knowing something about the Fallen, and that they hunt them, but seeing as they are a sucessor from the DA, and all that Inner Circle jazz, wouldn't the rank and file Brethren know just that they hunt Traitor Marines, not Fallen per se, and that the higher in the ranks they get, the more knowledge of their targets is given. Exactly like the DA, but with a slant that implies heavily upon the hounding of Traitor Marines. This would explain the bone coloured armour on all Brethren.

 

The 1st Order might not wear bone coloured armour, since they would look too much like the Deathwing. They might have a diffrent colour scheme for their Terminators, or they might have individual colour schemes, keeping the helmet and shoulder pad with the Chapter symbol in bone. Who knows. Oh, and for battlecry, I have an idea. Something along the lines of 'Absolve your sins' or something like that.

 

But these are just my opinions. Feel free to ignore them/flame them/use them or whatever. Mainly due to me starting an AoA force.

 

-Bro Adeaus

[Dudley Nightshade]

Actually, I'm kind of glad someone resurected this thread. I was confused about what chapter I wanted to paint when it was still active, so had nothing to post. I have since decided that I quite like Bleached Bone, so AoA it is :P

 

The AoA are a fleet based Chapter based on over a hundred ships. Three of their battle barges have been converted by their Techmarines to operate as travelling docks for the smaller vessels and as gathering points for the chapter.

Neat! That coincides nicely with my vision of the chapter.

 

The AoA tend to stick close to the teachings of the Codex Astartes. The only deviation is that the squads will break apart during a mission into two demi-squads that will allow the squad to place their opposition into a deadly crossfire.

Way to nail the combat squads rule months before the new codex!

 

The 1st Order might not wear bone coloured armour, since they would look too much like the Deathwing.

Heh, mine do since they started out as Deathwing :lol: Of course, there could be any number of situations that would require the techmarines to haul out their paintbrushes to make them the same/different from the rest of the chapter. Maybe even different points in the chapter's history. Perhaps when the Deathwing adopted the bone colour, the AoA first order (still getting used to that terminology) might have decided to change their armour colour in order to be distinct. Perhaps mine are from before the "Deathwing" incident on the plainsworld and yours are after?

 

But, 2nd company being called the 'Seraphim'? Thats a Battle Sister title...

Have to agree here, although I'm a bit light on other suggestions at the moment. I'll ponder.

 

So now for the questions...

1. I assume since we're inventing fluff here that that there is precious little established fluff for the AoA--true? If something exists, what books do I need to track down?

2. Similarly, are any character names known? The first chapter master must have come from the DA when the successors were created. Do we know his name?

3. Is there any new fluff coming in the codex that will make our musings here moot?

[Grimdarkness]

QUOTE(Brother Adeausl)

The 1st Order might not wear bone coloured armour, since they would look too much like the Deathwing.

 

Heh, mine do since they started out as Deathwing Of course, there could be any number of situations that would require the techmarines to haul out their paintbrushes to make them the same/different from the rest of the chapter. Maybe even different points in the chapter's history. Perhaps when the Deathwing adopted the bone colour, the AoA first order (still getting used to that terminology) might have decided to change their armour colour in order to be distinct. Perhaps mine are from before the "Deathwing" incident on the plainsworld and yours are after?

 

 

QUOTE

But, 2nd company being called the 'Seraphim'? Thats a Battle Sister title...

 

Have to agree here, although I'm a bit light on other suggestions at the moment. I'll ponder.

 

So now for the questions...

1. I assume since we're inventing fluff here that that there is precious little established fluff for the AoA--true? If something exists, what books do I need to track down?

2. Similarly, are any character names known? The first chapter master must have come from the DA when the successors were created. Do we know his name?

3. Is there any new fluff coming in the codex that will make our musings here moot?

 

 

I've never understood the bone colouring of the AoA if there 10'000 years old they picked it long before the plains world so i can only hope G.W touch on the colour in the new Dex.

 

as for your questions.

1 Yes and wait and see (new Dex)

2 No again wait and see(new Dex)

3 Wait and see (new Dex)

 

i hope this doesn't make me read like a p :cuss k.

 

no it makes you read like an idiot what is not wait. :blush: :devil: :)

[Brother Adeaus]

Actually, I'm kind of glad someone resurected this thread. I was confused about what chapter I wanted to paint when it was still active, so had nothing to post. I have since decided that I quite like Bleached Bone, so AoA it is :lol:

 

Yeah, the bleached bone scheme bought me as well. But, as Grimdarkness said, lets wait for the new Unforgiven codex (DA codex incase anyone starts on me v.v'' ) But until that moment, speculating about the AoA is fun. I'm surprised no one made a note of my comment about all of the AoA knowing at least a rudimentary knowledge of the Fallen.

 

As for characters, the 'How to paint Space Marines' book mentions two. Brother Captain (in other words, Master) Issac and a Sergeant whose name escapes me. Both are of the 5th Company/Order.

[Grand Master Belial]

Like the AoA fluffness. But, 2nd company being called the 'Seraphim'? Thats a Battle Sister title, I doubt a Marine would like to be compared to a Sister (not on the religon facet, I mean in other terms) and the 'Divide and Conquer' rule seems a bit... pointless since Tactical squads split into demi squads, or combat squads as the Codex calls them, on a regular basis.

 

Remember that this was written before all the rumors, so I guess we can withdraw that house rule now.

 

I'll remove the Seraphim title. and leave it as the 2nd Order.

 

Also, the use of say the 3rd 'Order' instead of Company is very nice. I like the idea of the whole Chapter knowing something about the Fallen, and that they hunt them, but seeing as they are a sucessor from the DA, and all that Inner Circle jazz, wouldn't the rank and file Brethren know just that they hunt Traitor Marines, not Fallen per se, and that the higher in the ranks they get, the more knowledge of their targets is given. Exactly like the DA, but with a slant that implies heavily upon the hounding of Traitor Marines. This would explain the bone coloured armour on all Brethren.

 

As a sense of variety I made the AoA the only ones where all brothers knew the secret but in varying degrees. This is patterned off the Levels within the Deathwing, but opened up to the whole chapter.

 

It is there only for variety and if people don't like it. I'll drop it.

 

It is anyone's guess toward the bone armor. I am leaning toward the reason for the skeletal grim reaper in the sacred standards. The AoA took on the Crim Reaper motif and with the new robed minis coming out they can wear green robes and be a similar to the reaper. I just need to break them away from the Plain's world reason as that applies only to the DA Deathwing.

 

The 1st Order might not wear bone coloured armour, since they would look too much like the Deathwing. They might have a diffrent colour scheme for their Terminators, or they might have individual colour schemes, keeping the helmet and shoulder pad with the Chapter symbol in bone. Who knows. Oh, and for battlecry, I have an idea. Something along the lines of 'Absolve your sins' or something like that.

 

 

But these are just my opinions. Feel free to ignore them/flame them/use them or whatever. Mainly due to me starting an AoA force.

 

-Bro Adeaus

 

Per the Codex, all AoA wear Bone armor including the 2nd Order (Successor Ravenwing). Though you can use dark brown robes as a variant.

 

Flaming is for Salamanders and Sisters of Battles, DA exploit flaws. Thanks for lighting the fire under my butt about this thread.

 

So now for the questions...

1. I assume since we're inventing fluff here that that there is precious little established fluff for the AoA--true? If something exists, what books do I need to track down?

2. Similarly, are any character names known? The first chapter master must have come from the DA when the successors were created. Do we know his name?

3. Is there any new fluff coming in the codex that will make our musings here moot?

 

1. The DA Codexes have precious little. The Painting Space Marines has some names, but it honks me off that they are using DA Heraldry for the Company Symbols. I still hold to the 2nd Ed variant that the Company symbol is the Heraldry of the Master of the Company/Order. As such it will change with time and Chapter. Other than that, I haven't seen anything else about the other Successors.

2. No names known but that might change with the upcoming Codex. Still that doesn't stop you from making your own.

3. Well the Squad rule happened, but not much has been said about the Successors. Though as with the Eldar Codex, there might be a few more DA Chapters put in though they would not be Unforgiven or know about the Fallen.

 

Because of the resurrection of this thread. I took the marines out of my Battle for Macragge box and now they are an Unforgiven Tac Squad. They are linked into my Termy squad from the Sword of Retribution campaign.

 

But until that moment, speculating about the AoA is fun. I'm surprised no one made a note of my comment about all of the AoA knowing at least a rudimentary knowledge of the Fallen.

 

As for characters, the 'How to paint Space Marines' book mentions two. Brother Captain (in other words, Master) Issac and a Sergeant whose name escapes me. Both are of the 5th Company/Order.

 

Perhaps you could elaborate a little bit more. I might not have gotten your point.

 

Listing of Angelic Orders

 

A listing of Angelic Orders for possible AoA names - For those that don't want to hit the link.

 

Orders of the First Choir are:

Supernals - Celestials - Illuminations

 

Orders of the Second Choir are:

Seraphim - Cherubim - Thrones

 

Orders of the Third Choir are:

Dominations - Virtues - Powers

 

Orders of the Fourth Choir are:

Principalities - Archangels - Angels

 

Two listings of Orders from the site

 

DANTE

 

1. Seraphim

2. Cherubim

3. Thrones

4. Dominations

5. Virtues

6. Powers

7. Archangels

8. Principalities

9. Angels

 

BARRETT, The Magus

 

1. Seraphim

2. Cherubim

3. Thrones

4. Dominations

5. Powers

6. Virtues

7. Principalities

8. Archangels

9. Angels

10. Innocents

11. Martyrs

12. Confessors

 

Move around the Magus and you have an interesting order:

 

1. Thrones

2. Dominations

3. Powers

4. Virtues

5. Principalities

6. Archangels

7. Angels

8. Confessors

9. Martyrs

10. Innocents

 

Thrones could be a name that harken's back to when the DA Legion was the Emperor's body guard. After the Emperor took to the Golden Throne, they took up the nme the Thrones.

[lhavoc]

I got into this discussion on the Gathering of Angels site and was thankfully pointed here where there seems to be more going on with the Angels of Absolution. As you can see from my post from the other site I am in favor of a Heavy Mechanized Chapter, but with a Dreadnought/Terminator emphasis that would allow for other chapters to use vehicles extensively if they want. The AoA would use pods like the old Soviet Airborne divisions. A massive jump behind enemy lines, cutting off the escape of the enemy force and becoming the anvil to the other Chapters hammer. They would also be very heavy when they hit the ground, but not as mobile as standard codex Chapter.

 

Here is my2c from the other board:

 

"I agree with Grand Master Belial on making the AoA more of a Mechanized Chapter. Here is an idea that came to me and I would like to hear what you all think:"

 

"According to GM Belial, the AoA progress through the Orders (Companies) by virtue of experience and merit. It also says there are no reserve Orders like a Codex Chapter. So, how about this, the 10th Order is Scouts just like as described above. The next pregression in the would be to the 8th and 9th Orders which would be fast-attack based like the Ravenwing, then would come the the 6th and 7th Orders, which would look like a standard Codex mix. Then the 4th and 5th which would be Tactical and Devestator squad mix. 3rd would become an all Devestator Order with the 1st and 2nd Orders as all Terminator. Throw in a large Dreadnought contingent and this would make the the AoA the heavy assault/siege breaker Chapter the the Imperial Fists were reputed to have been before the Heresy, as well as being the anvil to the hammer of the other Unforgiven Chapters. I also like the idea of this huge mass of Terminators and Dreadnoughts thundering across the battlefield in an unstoppable mass "

 

In the previous description of the AoR, they are listed as having the same organization as a standard DA Chapter. This does not really fit in with a role as siege breaking troops. That usually requires heavy weapons (Terminators, Dreadnoughts), fire support (Artillery, Devestator squads) and specialized Engineering equipment (Vindicators?) the AoA organization, with it emphasis on heavy weapons is more like what the AoR should be organizationwise, if the AoR are destined to fulfill this role. The disadvantage is that it makes them slow, but anything that gets in range is pulverized.

 

Going back the the Angels of Absolution, If you use this heavy organization with the fact that they are fleet-based, could they become sort of a fire brigade for the other Chapters? If another Chapter runs into something that it can't handle, up come the AoA heavies! with Drop Pods, Dreadnoughts and Terminator Deep Attack they could drop behind enemy lines and become an anvil for the enemy to beat itself to death against . In either role, there is a need for a heavy (Dreadnought, Terminator) force. It might even be a fun place to introduce a REALLY heavy weapon, such as an Titan

 

The use of the AoA in the "fire brigade" role could also play into what is said about the AoA scouts. (i.e. that they are larger and have a liking for close combat) This role would be as pathfinders for the Chapter. Drop them in to recon the landing zone/clear for the drop of the rest of the Chapter. Then they would become Tank-busting teams to soften up the enemy before they get hit by the rest of the "anvil".

[Brother Adeaus]

This whole idea of an 'Ironwing' seems a little bit silly to me. I mean, wouldn't an 'Ironwing' just be the Chapter Armoury exerting it's 'muscle'? And aren't all Chapters basicly mechanized anyway? But the massed firepower thing is ok...

 

As for the focus on AoA, I was thinking, if we got one Chapter nailed down in nearly all its facts, then we could move onto the next one, and repeat the process. That way we could focus our collective energies on each Chapter in turn instead of 'throwing mud at the wall' idea processes that the Liber folks do with their DIY's. I just think the Unforgiven deserve a focussed effort.

 

 

As for my last comment, in regards to the Fallen. I think the AoA would have a collective knowledge of the Fallen. Say, the Scouts know that they hunt Traitor Marines, but Tactical Brethren know they hunt Marines who have dishonoured the Legion, and so on and so forth until they reach DW-equivalent, where they learn the full scale of their misson. That way, the possible anger at the 'half-truths' that the DA use is diffused and avoided since no lies were told, just withholding information. That would be one reason behind the bone armour, the other being, like you said Grand Master Belial, the Grim Reaper motif.

 

Just my thoughts.

[lhavoc]

Whell I don't know about anyone else, but I like AoA for the color scheme :tu: And making them a Heavy Weapons (i.e. Terminator/Dreadnought/Heavier stuff?) Chapter would make them a lot like Soviet style Airborne/Air Assault troops. This would play into US Airborne/Air Assualt doctrine too :) Kinda like this:

 

In US Air Assault doctrine units are inserted behind enemy lines so that a retreating enemy is prevented from escaping. The emphasis is on a forced that can be dropped on the ground, then stand and hold a key position. Airborne doctrine is similar with Airborne troops dropped in to seize and hold key objectives and disrupt enemy lines of supply until attacking friendly forces can relieve them. In this case too, the intent is to have a force that can grab and hold key terrain/positions and shatter anything that is brought up against them.

 

The Soviet Army in deploying thier Airborne/Air Assault forces in Afghanistan essentially copied US Air Cavalry doctrine that they had observed during the Vietnam war. With the forces dropping into an area, securing it and then expanding outward to establis dominance of the region. Also was used as blocking forces to keep retreating enemy forces from retreating.

 

This would not be an "Ironwing" force, but would be based around drop pods/teleports and would use dropable assets (dreadnoughts/terminator) rather than vehicles, with heavy firepower provided from orbital bombardment.

[Grand Master Belial]

This whole idea of an 'Ironwing' seems a little bit silly to me. I mean, wouldn't an 'Ironwing' just be the Chapter Armoury exerting it's 'muscle'? And aren't all Chapters basicly mechanized anyway? But the massed firepower thing is ok...

 

As for the focus on AoA, I was thinking, if we got one Chapter nailed down in nearly all its facts, then we could move onto the next one, and repeat the process. That way we could focus our collective energies on each Chapter in turn... I just think the Unforgiven deserve a focussed effort.

 

...That would be one reason behind the bone armour, the other being, like you said Grand Master Belial, the Grim Reaper motif.

 

Just my thoughts.

 

All thoughts are warranted and appreciated.

 

Perhaps the reason why the Ironwing fell out of disuse is by the reasons you gave. Also it doesn't seem feasible in the 4th Ed rule set. Though I guess I can make it background material for the AoV and let the reins get loosened on the table due to the scale of the battle save certain scenarios. (Reserves must be mounted, etc...)

 

As for the bone armor, I want to steer well clear of the Deathwing Plain's World incident as that relates to the Dark Angels after the splitting of the Legion. They shouldn't be linked.

 

AoA is defintiely getting the focussed effort. Though I have put something for the others just to get it there. I'll revise it here in a little bit. I edit first in the GoA thread and cut & paste. Though we apparently are going to have two more Chapters added to the mix with the new Codex.

[Ludwig]

Do you think with all the comments here and with help from new fluff in the upcoming codex the ideas could be combined into a more final version and then pinned into the top of the forum? because i personally found this very helpfull when making my D.I.Y Chapter (an Angels of Redemption successor) and im sure other people have and will when deciding what army to start

[Grand Master Belial]

That is the plan and it is also to be submitted to the Fortress to be immortalized forever in cyber-space.

[ODM]

I would wait until the new codex is released to submit it though. It might be that each successor is given a couple paragraphs of history and motives you can build on.

[lhavoc]

I'm really hoping that the fluff and the discussions that occur in the forums are at least considered as much has been don with the Successor Chapters to give them unique identities rather than just being clones

[Grand Master Belial]

I would wait until the new codex is released to submit it though. It might be that each successor is given a couple paragraphs of history and motives you can build on.

 

Very true, but I think that we can build up most of the known Successors now and tweak them later.

 

I have a bad feeling that they'll remain clones.

 

To all who aren't paying too close attention, I keep editing the first post to be the latest and greatest. After the Codex comes out, I might ask that this one be closed so I can start another one where I can quick post 6 entries and edit them individually and perhaps expand it to include some B&C made Successors (like the Angels of the Lion).

[Vodunius]

This whole idea of an 'Ironwing' seems a little bit silly to me. I mean, wouldn't an 'Ironwing' just be the Chapter Armoury exerting it's 'muscle'? And aren't all Chapters basicly mechanized anyway? But the massed firepower thing is ok...

 

the only canon appearance of Ironwing i have ever seen first hand was in the Horus Heresy era army lists for EPIC in WD126 ~ wherein the armoury was not a separate entity from the infantry, and vehicle squadrons fitted into the organisational charts along with everything else: the Ironwing was not a standalone unit, it was only fielded in combined 'Wing' Battalions alongaside Deathwing and Ravenwing companies where it would fill in what those companies lacked (it should be pointed out that according to that article Ironwing could be fielded as an all tank company ~ as could any non-wing company ~ but was not even required to take transports: you could field it as a robot maniple, a thudd gun battery and a footslogging tactical platoon if you wanted)

[Brother Adeaus]

*kicks this thread up the backside*

 

I've just had a wild and crazy thought. Well, two actually. Both involves the new DA sprue. There are a lot of shoulder pads with a sword moulded on them, as well as other parts that have the DA Chapter symbol on them. I have two thoughts on these items and their uses in other Unforgiven Chapters.

 

First thought, regards Company Veterans. Company Veterans who bear the Sword on their shoulder guards (representing the Lion Sword) have undergone some great trial or displayed an exemplary feat of arms, and were awarded said honour, resulting in their promotion to Company Veteran.

 

Second thought, Marines of the Unforgiven Chapters who have fought alongside the Dark Angels in joint operations (possibly involving the Fallen, or maybe not) and brought much honour would be awarded the 'Symbol of the Legion' (or any other suitable name) and are permitted to bear the symbol of the Dark Angels Legion upon their armour alongside their Chapter Symbol. Placement of this honour varies, but permissable places are:

 

- Replacement icon for chest Eagle.

- Replacement icon for squad markings (usually coloured with appropriate squad designation. E.g. Black for Tactical Squads, Red for Assualt etc.)

- Fashioned as a backpack heraldry icon, or borne atop the powerpack like those skull reliqueries (sp?)

- Fashioned as an icon upon a tanks turret/flanks.

[CDR Grendelwulf]

ODM

I would wait until the new codex is released to submit it though. It might be that each successor is given a couple paragraphs of history and motives you can build on.

Having just received my codex, I can verify they each get a paragraph or so. And each is presented with their own bit of fluff to differentiate them from each other. For example, the Consecrators who revere pre-heresy tech so much...although it might have been interesting if they alluded to some redeemed Fallen within their ranks. It would have been a nice place to put those loyalists. Too bad they don't use the DA symbol. I may attempt some decals for their symbol, or freehand practice to see how they'd look. Otherwise, I'll just use traditional DA.

 

Or those cool new sword shoulder pads on the DA sprues.

 

Ciao,

CDR Grendelwulf

[Grand Master Belial]

Having just received my codex, I can verify they each get a paragraph or so. And each is presented with their own bit of fluff to differentiate them from each other.

 

Which might nullify the purpose of this thread.