help me with some roman ideas....

[ToyShip]

Hey a couple of months ago i started writing up fluff for my IA: Phoenix Legion( i thnik that was their name). I became greatly sidetracked and thus have made no progress... so my question to you is how do i make a chapter have a uniquely roman feel? Im planing on using the Phoenix Legion but changing it to be more roman. I thought maybe centurions could replace seargents but thats about as far as i got...any help?

[Wulfen_Icon]

Uniquely roman feel? That'd be tough....Not much is unique these days....Unless you had a bunch of Storm Shield/Thunder Hammer Termies in Testudo formation. :P

 

As for colouring, Red and Gold.

[Brother Adeaus]

Try equipping Assualt Squads with spears, and let the sergeants carry swords and roman-style combat/storm shields.

 

Or, as Wulfen_Icon said, Assault Termies in Tetsudo positioning.

 

Hmm.... those leather-strip tabards on the Command squad frame would carry across the Roman theme as well.

[Hemal]

Crests on helmets, the use of knots and tasskles on officers, as stated, spears instead of swords on RnF troops, using galdius-type weapons, having very simple standards like the Roman Legions' Eagles, colour schemes such as reds, purples and whites, with bronze or gold on the chest plates, overlapping armour plates on the chest or shoulders, etc etc...

[cleanse the impure]

when going with fluff and possible rules, bear in mind that the romand were notorius for being well deciplined, and their generals were notorious for being predictable: they would advance across the battlefield in a somewhat unstopable manner. also remember the phalanx idea, and that a general with some originality and flair (e.g. Hannibal) could give them a jolly good trouncing... :devil:

[Hemal]

Until Scipio turned up, that is...

[ToyShip]

As for the gladius idea what would you fellas think if on the assualt marines had shortend chainswords and maybe shields?? Traits would probably include take the fight to them so that they could have swords/ spears...i like the helmet plume ideas also...maybe the scouts could be a bit like gladiators?

*edit* The chianswords could look like this maybe? http://gamesday.us.games-workshop.com/Game...s/s1_silver.jpg

[Wulfen_Icon]

Gladiators as Scouts...there's an idea and a half.

[Master Rameus]

Scouts as gladiators, interesting. You could use Chaos Marauders as the basis for them, file off the Chaos icons. They already come with shields. A few bolt pistols and they could look pretty authentic if thats what your going for.

 

Otherwise, Im not too up to speed on factual Roman themes. I know about the phalanx formations, and the rigid discipline the legions adhered too. Anyhow, read up and watch alot of History Channel. Great info sources there. Good luck and have fun.

[ironloki]

What time period you looking at in Roman History? There is the early Greco-influenced until the reforms of Marius and the rise of the Empire then there is the Empire where it reached its peak and then fell. Then you could even go later such as the time of Constantine and Diocletion(Diocles) or if you wanted to push further the time of Justinian and the Byzantine Empire as that is essentially the Roman Empire in another viel ;)

 

Also is your problem modelling wise, i.e. giving them a unique look or fluff wise to make them destinquishable? The hard part is differentiating them from the Ultra-marines as they have fallen into the pitful of being both Greek and Latin.

 

Go the later Empire and you can have your nice core surrounded by rough and ready barbarian :D

 

Good luck though ^_^

[ToyShip]

Also is your problem modelling wise, i.e. giving them a unique look or fluff wise to make them destinquishable? The hard part is differentiating them from the Ultra-marines as they have fallen into the pitful of being both Greek and Latin.

 

Go the later Empire and you can have your nice core surrounded by rough and ready barbarian

Well i think it would be more of a modeling perspective....although i would need to explain it in the fluff somehow....Am i understanding you correctly when you say the nice core bit that there could be like regular legionaries as tactical marines and then barbarian auxilliaries??? any light shed on this would be great as it is quite intriguing...

 

Scouts as gladiators, interesting. You could use Chaos Marauders as the basis for them, file off the Chaos icons. They already come with shields. A few bolt pistols and they could look pretty authentic if thats what your going for.

 

I agree and also maybe i could model them with maybe a trident or a net or something along those lines??

 

....Unless you had a bunch of Storm Shield/Thunder Hammer Termies in Testudo formation.

I think this could actually be kind of interesting to model....it would definitely be different

[ironloki]

Well i think it would be more of a modeling perspective....although i would need to explain it in the fluff somehow....Am i understanding you correctly when you say the nice core bit that there could be like regular legionaries as tactical marines and then barbarian auxilliaries??? any light shed on this would be great as it is quite intriguing...

 

Basically later on in the Empire armies had proven to be a bit of a problem (Proclaiming their generals Emperor and then proceeding to try and overthrow the existing Emperor and they were expensive) So they decided to use Barbarians to swell their ranks. Although they had their own problem they seemed like the logical choice - cheap, would disband after a campaign and were barbarians after all.

 

The officer core normally was still very roman though or at least those who aspired and copied Roman traditions etc

 

What I would translate this to Space Marines would be to have Veterans - vet sergeants, command squads, veteran squads to be the old Roman style - Gladius shield etc and then have say tactical squad or scout squads representing the rougher members of the army - you could give them mad weilding axes, long beards. Rough and ready looking like Space wolves. I think it would be a nice contrast but probably a lot different from what your thinking :blink:

[ToyShip]

Actually that is a really good idea that way too it would be like almost two chapters.....maybe with the fluff i could detail the different tribes of barbarians and maybe each "Barbarian Squad" could hail from a different tribe? This way there would be many different oppurtuniteis for modeling/army composition too......But i really like the idea and i want to get to work on it right now......maybe i can post a little up later.....

[Nine_Breaker]

If you want a new, more Roman name, why not call the chapter the Centurions instead of just sergeants?

[DOGGED]

Wait here I go! :devil:

 

Allright first you'll fond that ultramarines are esentially roman looking so you can use the basic components to give that roman look to your army. Black templar components can add to it with little modelling.

 

OK forget about the plumes except maybe (and only maybe) for sarges and officers. You can use plumes from WFB empire or bits from eldar dire avengers heads (maybe you can find them online).

 

Then forget about the spears. Really forget. Romans with spears were archaic, they only had them later in some ranks (princeps?) and were not very practical for them. They used pilum, that is, iron head and front shaft-rear wood rear shaft heavy javelins. They threw them at the enemy when in close range, then unsheathed gladius and fought close, using shields to block-push and sword to hack-thrust.

 

So when trying to translate roman weaponry you should have its practical purpose in mind first and foremost. There's no necessity in shortening chainswords or the like. Romans used shorter swords because of their fighting way as an army, not by personal preference. Then, in a close quarters foight, gladius is so much preferable to celtic long swords for example. These worked to skirmish in front of the legio line hacking roman feet. But when in combat the longsword overreached while the gladius rocked its way perfect.

 

Marines are over-strong and dexterous so they can fight with longer weapons and still keep an edge in close quarters.

 

The barbarians fought as auxiliaries or allies/feudataries. The better way to represent that should be to use Imperial Guard as PDFs. Scouts should represent just that, scouts detached from the main army. They would be Auxiliar troops, like retro assault marines, reserved for auxiliar duties like long range harassing or claiming quarters/attacking rearguards...

 

To reflect roman look alike, you could, for example:

 

- Use decimal formations. Ten men squads, hundred men companies, etc.

- Use Decurions for sergeants (refers to tenths), Centurions for company captains (refers to hundreds)... Look for legionary ranks to use.

- Give them bolters, modern equivalent of pilum, and Trust yer Battle Bros to reflect capability in close combat capability.

- Name banner bearers "signifiers" or so and use objects on the banners, not standards.

- Not use close combat only units unless they're honour units or the like because they lose versatility. I'd give Thammers and Sshields to sarges as a ceremonial badge and why not an ace up the sleeve (did I say it correct?). Termies and vets could reflect roman veteran guards/units inside the main unit. Even then their superior abilities could be better reflected via assault cannons and spec weaons on the field.

- Use devastators to reflect balista like artillery.

- Treat fast attack choices as flank or feeble points exploiters or to give tha fatal coup to the enemy just as historical.

- Use superior firepower and range to your advantage just as romans did with the weapons at their disposal.

 

 

I'm no roman warfare expert, but from what I know of it and the period this could give a close romen fighting look.

And a couple things more. Roman generals could win almost every battle unless they were of inferior capability than the enemy generals. Hannibal lured the romans to win battles and this roman defeats, as the massacres in the german woods showed, were a direct result of tactical good or bad choosing. But the roman way wasn't easily defeatable nor did romans advance like unstoppable automats. The legio was a very versatile and tactically manouverable formation, just like marine codex is.

 

Whoa I better leave for now... :)

[krusade]

and purple was only allowed in the imperial household so i wouldnt use them on rank and files...

 

romans fought in manciples of 3, that is three seperate lines with the lighter armoured greens in the first rank, the fully trained legionares in the second and the vets as the last line as they were the heaviest armoured...greenies to wear em down, standards to bloody em and vets to kill em off or counter attack if the 1st and 2nd lines were beaten.

 

cav was firstly auxillaries then became the first instances of combined arms

 

the romans werent that good on the infiltration and scouting bit so you may wanna cut down on scouts...