gene-seed meddling

[cleanse the impure]

ok, a little while ago, i was tempted to create a space marine chapter. i thought that they could be either 21st founding or cursed founding, and was thinking of mixing ultramarine and spacewolf geneseed (inquisition experiment). what put me off is that i heard (rumours only) that many people are not very happy with people messing around with seed in this way. does anybody have any thoughts? all comments both good :) and bad :devil: would be appreciated. thanks in advance...

[Aurelius Rex]

It depends why you are doing it, and if it actually adds anything to the theme of your chapter. When the Relictors IA was first released mixed geneseed became that week's Shark Cartilage Enema, the Next Big Thing, and the board was swamped with chapters with mixed geneseed for no other reason than it was fashionable.

 

Effectively it was being used in many cases as a flashy replacement for character and simply tacked onto the chapter with no regard for it's effect on the wider theme.

 

It was this that got Mixed Geneseed a bad reputation.

 

Now like with everything in DIY chapter creation, if a compelling reason exists for having the chapter use mixed geneseed that fits in with the overall theme of the chapter, then go for it, we would be happy to see it, but if it doesn't mesh, then it can come over as a poorly judged idea.

 

So while there are supposedly mixed geneseed DIY chapters, and I would try to keep such shenanigans to the 21st (Cursed) founding, it doesn't necessarily mean that this will fit well into your DIY chapter.

 

Just because you can do something it doesn't mean that you should do it. :devil:

[Ferrata]

I agree with Rex here, if it doesn't fit the character then don't do it. If it really is a big part of your chapter that they have half-ultra-half-wolf gene-seed, and it adds something to the chapter, then go ahead and do it. If you find it writes well and makes sense, then I'll be happy to read it. I could have easily given my chapter half-Blood Angel half-Ultramarine gene-seed, but prefered their downfall to come overtime and due to their actions, not their genetics.

 

Just because you can do something it doesn't mean that you should do it.

QFE

 

Ferrata

[Tubal]

Both Space Wolves successors and mixed geneseed chapters are frowned upon for different reasons, but ironically they complement each other. They could have mixed the two (UM&SW) to try and breed out the curse of the wulfen from the Space Wolves, probably with disastrous results though...

[the_raptor]

Both Space Wolves successors and mixed geneseed chapters are frowned upon for different reasons, but ironically they complement each other. They could have mixed the two (UM&SW) to try and breed out the curse of the wulfen from the Space Wolves, probably with disastrous results though...

 

The question is why would the AM bother? There are already so many good sources of gene seed out there (all those ultra and fist descended chapters) that their is no need for "good" wolf seed. And the wolves themselves are entirely unlikely to think their geneseed needs to be purified.

[Mrph45]

I mixed geneseed became that week's Shark Cartilage Enema, the Next Big Thing

 

 

Why didn't any one tell me that Shark Cartilage Enemas were in :P

 

 

Why mix if it works don't screw with it! Besides so what if occassionaly spacewolves become berserk werewolves they still kill in the name of the emperor.

[princeofchaos]

The IA about renegade marines mentioned that the mixing is not always intentional, and sometimes it is. If one chapter does not have a particular organ, the AM might splice in that organ from another chapter. This pretty much leaves the "gene blending" wide open for use.

[Darrell]

What I would do is try to do everything in your power to avoid making a Chapter based on fouled-up geneseed. Geneseed is holy to the Space Marines, it is their future, it is their past, it is their connection to their Primarch (And through them, the Emperor Himself). Space Marine Chapters guard their geneseed more than any other part of their armory. In the first Index Astartes, the Silver Skulls' vault of geneseed is quoted as being THE most impregnable portion of their Fortress. It can survive an Exterminatus. As long as that geneseed is alive, their Chapter is alive. If that geneseed is destroyed, their Chapter is doomed.

 

A lot of people don't realize geneseed is that important, or looked on with that kind of adoration. Think of it like this:

 

Suppose we had the blood of Jesus, or Muhammad, or Moses, or Buddha, or any other great holy man. A man who is looked on with great adoration, viewed as a god by many people. And with this blood, you can pass his powerful abilities down to people imbued with that blood, and make them into great, spiritual warriors. That kind of blood would be seen as sacred, holy, sanctified, not something to be trifled with.

 

The problem is, a lot of people see this and go:

 

"OMG I could cross Jesus with ninjas and then I could have kung-fu fighting Jesus ninjas lmao!!111 :("

 

Now, maybe Kung-Fu Fighting Jesus Ninjas would add something special to your Chapter, and if you have a good idea for it, then go right ahead! We can all read it here and give you feedback. However, from experience, I can tell you that the far majority of Chapters I have seen with fouled geneseed (Or "documents destroyed", or "lost in the Warp for X years") do not use that quirk to improve their Chapter, and instead it's a thin attempt to add depth to the Chapter without really adding any work to it. Sort of like instant mashed potatoes, you know? It only takes a minute, and it tastes alright, but it doesn't compare to the homeade kind of mashed potatoes your grandmother makes...and it only took a little bit of effort to pull off.

 

If you're not sure how much depth it would add, leave it in and post it here and see what others have to say (I know it's hardest for me to critique my own work). But try writing your fluff without the Ultramarines/Wolf geneseed and see how it goes.

[Severus6]

The other side note to this, is mixed geneseed alot of times is associated with Chaos, ie; in certain areas of the GW background, traitor marines will harvest the geneseed of fallen loyalist and mix and match. That of course is the most extreme case. Further more I concur with the "flava' of the month issue". It has become another "lost in the warp, primarch unknown, didnt turn to chaos" cliche,...which when all is said and done is too bad as it does create some interesting possibilities.

 

That and you dont have to worry about the afore mentioned kung-fu fighting Jesus ninja. Steady on Darrell, steady on. ;)

 

 

Severus6

[cleanse the impure]

ok, thank you all for your ideas and thoughts. initially my idea was that during the 21st founding (or maybe 13th) one of the more radical inquisitors (probably ordo hereticus) decided to mix the two geneseeds. the idea being that the result would be a bunch of guys with ferocity of the space wolves, but without the mutations that come with (mark of the wolfren, the long canines, etc), and hopefully iron out some of the really headstrong aspects (i know space marines are pretty headstrong regardless of who they are, but the space wolves do seem especially so). essentially, he was after a more conventional chapter, but with some of the better and more useful qualities of the sapce wolves. needless to say, neither of the 'participating' chapters had any idea of this, otherwise they would of objected, and it took a lot of effort to procure the relevant geneseed, but it was done. ok, from this point onwards, you can see some ideas from other chapters, but i figure that the likes would not necessarily be issolated.

 

after a couple of small raids using marines with the altered geneseed (they were a success), the inquisitor decides to go for a larger confrontation, in the event with a dark edar raiding party...a large one. now, all is going well, and the inquisitor is at the front line to see the results for himself when things start to go wrong. the marine in frint of him goes into contorsions, and a large blade of bone comes out of his forearm, and gets the inquisitor in the belly, killing him. one of his acolytes runs off the tell another inquisitor. the dark eldar are thoroughly thrashed, but as the marines head back to their base (they have not yet been given a homeworld, and only a small handfull of ships), this oother inquisitor attacks. there are heavy casualties, but they survive. because of their casualties, they are restricted to small raids and the like to garner supplies, and sometimes manage to find a numan world (probably fairly primitive) that they manage to recruit from.

 

ok, that's pretty much all the fluff i've thought up so far (or at least all that i've actually decided upon). as far as gameplay goes, the chapter would combine the rules for the cursed foundings, specifically the black dragons, mixed with some of the chapter traits in codex space marines, and perhaps a few of my own goodies. they will be quite assualt orientated, but will lack most of the heavy armour (restrictions on termis, and all vehicles that aren't rhioes, including bikes). but, unlike the cursed foundings in chapter approved, i intend to keep 'and they shall know no fear', as they still consider themselves space marines, and doing the emperor's work.

 

the only final points that i should perhaps make is that they really don't like the way that the inquisition handes itself. they see no reason why chapters with mutations should not have wider recognition. the other is that i'm not sure if the doner chapters (ultramarines and space wolves) should ever find out, and this might mess with official history a bit too much. well, thanks to everyone. i know that reading all of this may be a bit tedious, but it is all appreciated. :)

 

p.s. i didn't know geneseed mixing was ever that popular...you learn something new all the time...

[Viperidae]

I say go for the mixed geneseed if you want to, it makes for a cool, characterful army when backed up. I'd actually be interested to see how a half-ultra, half-wolf geneseed chapter would operate and react on the battlefield!

 

Viperidae says "DOOOOOO ITTTT!" :rolleyes: