Canada Games Day Pictures

[-Q-]

This is not the Formula One. This is not the Stanley Cup.

This is a painting toys contest at a Games Workshop convention. It's about having fun. I have no problem restricting entries with rules that lean toward fairness for all over raw best of the best fairness.

[JeanFrancois]

This is not the Formula One. This is not the Stanley Cup.

This is a painting toys contest at a Games Workshop convention. It's about having fun. I have no problem restricting entries with rules that lean toward fairness for all over raw best of the best fairness.

I hope it's not hockey... although we might want to start giving penalties to the people who don't yell >Waaarg< loud enough in a GD, lol.

 

Golden Demons are painting competitions of the highest standard. When I see people from another country dropping in the event, and winning a bunch of trophies, I take the opportunity to learn from them and the miniature they bring over. Getting my painting to the same standard is not innaccessible. Quite the opposite, its even easier for me now to sit down with them, ask some questions, opinions, etc.

 

And what's unfair about allowing people from other coutries to get in? They drink almost the same water we do and they all got McDonald's in their coutries... it sounds more xenophobic than anything else to me. It's up to us here to organize and share our experience to beat them next year (and get the Sword back on Canadian soil, lol).

 

In the end, what matters, really? Getting a trophy or raising your own personal standard. I personally get plenty of satisfaction (and fun!) raising my standard, and that's what happened during that last GD.

[mario]

This is not the Formula One. This is not the Stanley Cup.

This is a painting toys contest at a Games Workshop convention. It's about having fun. I have no problem restricting entries with rules that lean toward fairness for all over raw best of the best fairness.

And winning the Forumula One championship is anything different? It's just entertainment too. Should they stop doing it just because it's not leaning towards you defined "fairness for all" (not everyone has the skill to drive or the money to have a team).

 

GW has rules that forbid people to enter again once they won the Slayer Sword and they removed that rule because it removed a lot of good painters. And no matter how biased the Golden Daemon is, it's still a competition. If you are not good enough for that judges on that day then you don't get a trophy. Should the just start selling the trophies so everyone canhave one?

 

By the way: Fairness for all is allowing everyone to participate and not restricting the competition. Your idea has nothing to do with fairness.

 

from: http://m-w.com/dictionary/fairness

free from favor toward either or any side

Being fair is about giving very one a shot at trying to be the best on that day if they want to participate, restricting someone because they already won the competition is removing that fairness for everyone because they don't have the entries of these removed people to measure against. It's not fair to the removed ones because they can't win and it's not fair to the participating people because they can't win with some of the best participating.

 

This just to show you another view on the whole fainess idea. Your fainess seems to be based around the idea that everyone should get a piece of the cake. The Golden Daemon is a competition and there fairness is defined a bit different even if this competition is not as well known or prestigious as a Stanley Cup/Formula One championship.

[StratoKhan]

Personally however, I believe it's more fun to have the highest possible level of competition possible, and this won't be had by restricting the competitors.

 

The truth is that the competitive drive brings out the best and worst in us. In this case I feel like there was no unsporting competitiveness, and that the better the competition is, the higher the results that will be acheived.

 

And I really want to know what you mean by this -

 

I have no problem restricting entries with rules that lean toward fairness for all over raw best of the best fairness.

 

Because at the moment I don't understand.

 

And by the way I think it's good that you're voicing your opinion even though it might be considered an unpopular one.

[Legacy40k]

I think part of the objection people have isnt people from another country, its from another continent, one where they have so many GDs in a small area.

 

In europe its quite feasable for anybody to go to the France, Spanish, Italian, and UK Games Days since they are all relatively close to one another.

 

In North America, the closest 2 games days are probably Chicago and Toronto, and they are still very far apart.

 

So, while Europeans can already go to many games days and enter, in North America, many of us see Games Day and the Golden Deamon as a once a year event so its not as if we can just enter again at the next games day if we didn't win, we have to wait until the next year, so I think many people are dissapointed when its as if part of their games day was taken away from them and they can't realistically make it up.

 

-Legacy40k

[StratoKhan]

In europe its quite feasable for anybody to go to the France, Spanish, Italian, and UK Games Days since they are all relatively close to one another.

 

I think you'd be surprised at how much it costs to travel around Europe, especially when you take accomodation into mind. I'd say that there isn't as much difference as you might think.

[Brother Weasel]

So because they were able to travel they shouldn't enter? liek i said before, who cares where they are from? who cares how many demons they have, or swords? why does it make a diffrence? say i end up with team los angeles, and they end up being a bunch of great painters, and we all go to frence or england SPACIFICALY to enter the demons, who cares? are the english going to complain that we invaded and took all thier deamons? i'll tell you this if you did it in france, the north americans would know who you were, taking on some of the best and beating them... but some how it's diffrent if they come here, it cheapens thier win? that just plain stupid (sorry -Q- i agree with a lot of what you say, but this one i can't:))

 

if Y, ot Boltman, or hardy went to every north american contest and got a sword, peoples jaws would just drop... some people would complainm, but in reality, they just took on the entire country, and proved that they can paint... not "bad lighting" no demon hunting, simply "no one can touch me"

 

it's just a painting comp... the top of our world, and there are a lot of them a year... you want to put restrictions on who can enter, then you need to have a final, sword for sword, demon for demon... because when it all comes down to it, people want to know who the best is... and learn how to be the best

[Master Avoghai]

This is not the Formula One. This is not the Stanley Cup.

This is a painting toys contest at a Games Workshop convention.

So what? For many people I know, the up to come World cup is of lesser interest comparing to GD....

 

This is a competition, that's all

 

Your way of thinking mean you apply a value to competitions hence to competitors...

 

Every competition is respectable..

 

It's about having fun.

And believe me you can having fun by being a competitor... come on ! I'm under the feeling you're gonna reproach those guys to have talent and use it...

 

So, while Europeans can already go to many games days and enter, in North America, many of us see Games Day and the Golden Deamon as a once a year event so its not as if we can just enter again at the next games day if we didn't win, we have to wait until the next year, so I think many people are dissapointed when its as if part of their games day was taken away from them and they can't realistically make it up.

Well it's still costly ya know and few people can really plan such travels...

 

The funny thing about that is that the last french slayer Sword was taken by the Spanigh team... and the French team never managed to take theirs -_-

 

And we're fine with that :)

[-Q-]

Just want to clarify that my intention was not to be xenophobic. I posted a follow up to try to explain that. My first thought was inspired by others' complaints of a foreign team but really it's the general concept of "shopping for Demons" that bothers me. So a team of painters that won in Atlanta going off to do the same in Baltimore would bother me the same.

 

Mario, dictionary definitions of single words are not always helpful in discussions. Saying "You've won, now give someone else a chance" is what I meant by "fairness for all" and is a perfectly fair system. Nobody seems to be complaining that one person can't enter 10 times in one category and win Gold, Silver, Bronze. The rules restrict that person from winning more than once in a category on that day. It would still be a *fair* system if that person could only enter once per category per year or one Slayer Sword per lifetime. The idea of winning the Slayer Sword one time only is that it'd then be more of a "Hall of Fame" type award. (Hopefully that clears up my statement for StratoKhan as well)

 

Now what gets me all riled up about all this is that there's a duality among the painting community. The Demons are seen as the highest achievement in painting but at the same time every event is full of judgment controversy, excuses that the judges at that show were inexperienced, the entries were all crap so the winners didn't deserve it, etc. Frankly my thoughts on how to give more local people a chance would probably do the opposite because painters would have to think about what they're going to enter and really bring their best of best. Just like stated elsewhere above, it would raise the level of the serious painters' entries knowing that was their one chance at that category that year.

[Brother Weasel]

Now what gets me all riled up about all this is that there's a duality among the painting community. The Demons are seen as the highest achievement in painting but at the same time every event is full of judgment controversy, excuses that the judges at that show were inexperienced, the entries were all crap so the winners didn't deserve it, etc. Frankly my thoughts on how to give more local people a chance would probably do the opposite because painters would have to think about what they're going to enter and really bring their best of best. Just like stated elsewhere above, it would raise the level of the serious painters' entries knowing that was their one chance at that category that year.

 

I hear you here...

 

all competitions have poeple who will complain, about something.. but in the end, they are all being juged by the same people in the same lighting with the same everythign, as every other person there, that day...

 

look at any sport... most of the time the team who lost, someone will have a complaint. the ref wasn't calling the game fair, if we had such and such player who was sick, others on the team will just congradulate the better team that day...

 

I was at GDLA, i took 3 first cuts, btu won no awards... do i think i deserved better, course i do, but i KNOW i'm biased to my stuff:) in no way should those who won be begrudged, nor the staff or anythng else... good show all around, even when i saw boltmans stuff there, and Y was back... who cares who showed up:)

 

people are going to bitch... no matter what you do, you can hace the best mini critic in the world, under perfect lighting with all the time in the world... and someone, be it the artist, or someone who sees it on the net, will complain that this shold have won over that....

 

so what am i saying? seam a bit silly to talk about it to hard now, in my mind:)

[Master Avoghai]

Saying "You've won, now give someone else a chance"

Yeah but this is not giving a chance but getting it yourself that is important...

 

The idea of winning the Slayer Sword one time only is that it'd then be more of a "Hall of Fame" type award.

 

Well I can see that but then I think that if so, the Slayer sword shouldn't be given on a particular piece of a particular GD... Just a separate prize given after all prizes...

But slayer Sword is just the Prize "all categories"

 

Of course some people could say that by multiple entry you get more chance to get a deamon and a slayer sword... but hey, you divide your effort then you divide your chances too...

 

And still, Slayer Sword can be given for the consitancy of a painter along categories but here again I see no reason for forbidding him to try to be so constant next year...

 

I also see another reason for allowing multiple entries... Suppose you say : one category/year... I take no risk by saying that some categories will be left for more "classic" ones... You will see everybody participating for "single miniatures" and less for "diorama"

 

But we have restrictions in France too (don't know for the other european ones) : every slayer sword winner is allowed to present one single entry the following GDs... I personnaly don't appreciate, you imagine, but I think it's a fair compromise

[mario]

-Q-: I used the dictionary definition just to show what fair is, and not what you make it to be.

Your fair is based on the idea (the following is just an example) that every child at the party should get a piece of the cake. That type of fairness is about equalness too but not about equalness (is that even a word) in a competiton. In an competiton everyone should have the same chance, not a chance. It's a competition, it's not about distributing the little resin (and five minutes before the comeptition starts finished with drybrushing) statues. For that they could sell the daemons or give them aways with each ticket or something like that.

 

GW had this "one Slayer Sword only" rule and it did cost the a lot of good miniature pictures. And restricting it to one per year is not possible, the registration is is digital, it's more or less informal and only used to get the winner's names and people can pick up their entries after the competiton.

 

Should tournament winner be restricted to one tournament per year too? I don't think so and I think introducing that rule again will rob the competition of it's best painters.

[-Q-]

I know you are proud of your "piece of cake" analogy but that's not what I'm saying at all.

Nobody seems to be complaining that one person can't enter 10 times in one category and win Gold, Silver, Bronze. The rules restrict that person from winning more than once in a category on that day. It would still be a *fair* system if that person could only enter once per category per year or one Slayer Sword per lifetime.

[Master Avoghai]

I know you are proud of your "piece of cake" analogy but that's not what I'm saying at all.

Nobody seems to be complaining that one person can't enter 10 times in one category and win Gold, Silver, Bronze. The rules restrict that person from winning more than once in a category on that day. It would still be a *fair* system if that person could only enter once per category per year or one Slayer Sword per lifetime.

 

Nobody complains because restrictins applies to everybody not just people coming in group or having won the stanley cup or coming to games day without the official T shirt...

 

Everybody can present one entry/category, no matter if he won before or not... so eveybody has its chance and the same one...in each category.

[Grey Knight]

I beleive we've all gone over our opinions several times now, and, as with most things in life, have seen that it's all about opinion. Now can we PLEASE stop arguing about what's fair and what isn't and just get some decent pictures up?

[molebrain]

It's a competition for the best painters. You never know who will show up and what categories they will enter so it's always a risk. If someone comes and takes all the demons than they were better than you. You just have to get better or try for a category that may have less attraction for the better painters.

 

Why should anyone be limited to one GD? If they can put out 6 GD quality pieces in a year they should be allowed to enter 6 different competitions. My first GD, my main entry didn't place. I studied, got better, and won some demons. Losing was the best motivator of all. :D

 

Zach

www.crookedeye.net

[GreyDeath]

Uhm is anyone going to post anymore pics?

Or is this post pretty much dead to argueing?

 

:D

[Shades of Black]

Esteemed brothers.

This is my first post after a looong time lurking and I hope you'll please pardon my poor english.

 

For the few I saw on the web about this controversal GD, I retained one thing : It was a nice one, worth of interest, full of brillant works.

Then I read a few threads... One on Cr

[grifon]

While I can see how people feel about others "Shooping for demons" my response is simple...Step up...

 

The people who are saying "Its unfair" need to realize that this is a competition for the best, I would rather compete against the best and lose than win against the worst. I haven't had the joy of ever attending a Games Day [Next year in LA hopefully, and the entry blog will start on here soon <_<] but I have been competing in IPMS [international Plastic Modelers Society] for years, and guess what, I have had my ass handed to me on numerous occasions by someone who had abilities that were just out of this world. I didn't complain, even when one of the people who I got trumped by in the Miniature competition simply flew in for the prize that was being advertised. I got the chance to spend some quality time with the individual at the show and learn about the techniques they used. Under normal circumstances I might have won, but I didn't that time, and guess what? I LOVED the competition.

 

I would like to address the fact that the Open Competition SHOULDN"T be allowed to be considered for the Slayer Sword, I feel that the competition has already got conversion heavy enough without allowing a pure scratchbuilt to win the competition.

 

EDIT: Now if you want to talk about judging issues, then look at the recently completed GD Baltimore and explain how Victor Hardy's Golgotha placed where it did, easilly one of the most amazing pieces I have ever seen."

[-Q-]

*chuckle* Awesome. Let everyone enter whatever they want... unless they're talented enough to sculpt a mini from scratch, then you shouldn't be allowed a chance at the Sword. Hehe sorry couldn't resist, too funny. :)

[grifon]

*chuckle* Awesome. Let everyone enter whatever they want... unless they're talented enough to sculpt a mini from scratch, then you shouldn't be allowed a chance at the Sword. Hehe sorry couldn't resist, too funny. :)

 

People who want to do complete scratch builts, there are competitions for those and the Games Workshop allows the category, I just feel that since this is based of GW products then peoples own creations from scratch shouldn't be eligible. Bear in mind they have gone after people for casting their own bits, whats the difference?

[-Q-]

The point is that it's allowed in the current rules so since it's a painting competition it shouldn't matter to you. You exclaim for everyone to bring their best but then pull back if that person sculpted their entry too. If I can build a Space Marine without GW parts and paint it better than you, why should I not be allowed to compete for the best of the best? :)

[-Q-]

That Ultramarine Terminator fills me with joy. Makes me genuinely happy just looking at.

 

The Peanut Butter Jelly Marine rocks.

 

Poor Dreadnought with banners so big he's falling off the rock. =(

 

DV8's yellow is like magic but I noticed a mold line or something through the freehand?

[asmodai650]

Who's Chaplain?

 

I rember this from here somewhere, tried searchy, but no luck. Anyone know where this is?

[StratoKhan]

That's DV8's from these very own boards.