D.I.Y. Iron Dragons Renegade Chapter

[Tech-Priest Tjorvi]

"Look out into the streets my Brother...there are thousands of them out there, and there are twenty of us. I like these odds."

- Commander Caedes, addressing Battle-Brother Tirathon

 

 

[Nicili]

No Offense,

 

But your chapter is 3x too large. An average space marine chapter is only 1000 marines strong, yours is 3000! Take away some brotherhoods or make them smaller, no chapter would be this large.

[Tech-Priest Tjorvi]

I know the size of a Chapter, but the reasoning behind my chapters size is because

 

A. they're renegade and no longer answer to the Imperium

B. the Chapters 7,000 years old with access to now 2 Forgeworlds in the Sagrado Sector (1 upgraded to FW status and the other created), (FW's contain the gene-seed)

C. it is literally impossible for my Chapter to be in any one area with more than 1/4 of its full size, ship-wise or ground-wise, because of the highly dangerous and unpredictable space in Sagrado

[Severus6]

I am just going to state the obvious on this. Its too big and if the Chapter did go renegade with this much firepower not to mention the AM Troops and all of the Titans attached, there would be no end to the amount of troops and resources that the High Lords would expend to destroy you and bring back those Titans. Period.

 

On a positive note, I like the part about the bionic heart. Simply put, I think you have a good idea of Marines going renegade without all of the other stuff. Why not simply say that they have found or have been influenced by something of C'tan origin. If they are an IH offshoot this is not hard to grasp. It would be a simple, direct, and intrigueing way to create your Chapter. You dont need all that other stuff as all it does is deviate outside the accepted background and lessen the storyline. Then again its your Chapter, have at it.

 

Severus6

[Tech-Priest Tjorvi]

oh I want an intriging chapter, thats what Im aiming for. Im just tired of seeing all these "goodie-too-shoes" style chapters, that have rinky-dink problems, like.. they stray from the codex for a little while, the =][= finds out, and suddenly the chapter is kissing the =][='s shoes, begging for forgiveness.. I want a chapter that strays, and stares into the eyes of anyone who looks their way, and doesnt even flinch B)

 

besides, the Imperium having to deal with only 750 RSM in a single major ground engagement at a time isnt too bad when you consider Crusade-sized armies

 

But! lets just move away from the size of the chapter for a while, I need some replies on the rest of the Fluff, like the .. well.. anything else other than the chapter's size will do :P heh

 

 

EDIT: oh and btw, I forgot to address this part. If you've read the Inquisitor's report in the history area, it states that part/most of the chapter (at the time) had stayed on a planet to help their brothers escape by giving their lives (and then the planet blew), so they didnt come into the Sagrado Sector/leave Imperial space with 3k Marines, that took 7,000 years

[ixupi]

Its too big and if the Chapter did go renegade with this much firepower not to mention the AM Troops and all of the Titans attached, there would be no end to the amount of troops and resources that the High Lords would expend to destroy you and bring back those Titans. Period.

 

^

|

 

That pretty much sums it up. The biggest flaw I see being the amount of dreads/titans. 7,000 years or not. But THAT many titans? :rolleyes: Imperium would go ape :wink: on them.

[Viperidae]

Not to dwell on the 'size thing' based on your request, I applaud you for being creative and not sticking to the 'this is what all chapters are' way. Make your chapter as large as you want it. Keep up the good work while I keep reading...

 

Although I have to add, those two quotes at the top of it are awesome! :rolleyes:

[Viperidae]

Now, a few things about the fluff that I'm wondering about:

 

If kills determine seniority, when a commander is killed, does the guy with the highest kills below that just take over? And if a lieutenant got more kills than a commander (because the commander was, say, doing more planning than fighting) would they exchange positions? Just curious how this would all work, though I particularly like the idea that the more 'bitey' dudes get seniority. Nice touch (and as it should be).

 

The council protectors being psychics surprises me. At first I thought 'Cool!' but then I thought 'What about Daemonic attack/possession, anti-psyker units etc. Wouldn't that put the council at serious risk? Cool touch with the weps. Got any conversions yet?

 

The breakdown of your chapter into companies is awesome. I'm impressed how much detail you went into, but bear in mind this will allow people to nitpick with comments like 'Why are there 150 marines in a brotherhood instead of 149 like normal guys'. I hate when people do stuff like that. Anyway...

 

The heart-eating bit is cool. I plan to include a similar thing with my wulfen (who won't just eat the heart) and I like the chaos part. It would make sense that eating what is corrupted by Chaos could infuse you with a bit of Chaos. Maybe, since Chaos know this now, you could have them tricking the chapter into eating a seemingly innocuous heart that is actually the raw stuff of chaos...then have a squad or even just dude turn against the chapter...perhaps in secret...see you're inspiring me! :rolleyes:

 

On colour scheme, got any pics? Im not a huge fan of the white marines, preferring darker colours but I'll hold back judgement til I see some. What colours will their boltguns be? Will they have back banners?

 

On the whole I like the fluff, it was an entertaining read. More about what's happened to them since they left their homeworld would be cool, and maybe some squad-level stories about some campaigns they've fought in.

 

Keep up the good work. :wink:

[Tech-Priest Tjorvi]

But THAT many titans? :D Imperium would go ape :( on them.

I must apologize/explain.

 

my knowledge on Fluff such as titans and such is mind-numbingly limited. I believed that the amount I specified was a small amount, I guess not lol ;)

 

 

If kills determine seniority, when a commander is killed, does the guy with the highest kills below that just take over?

 

basically, yeah (for now, if I need to divulge into it, I'll try to figure something out)

 

 

And if a lieutenant got more kills than a commander (because the commander was, say, doing more planning than fighting) would they exchange positions?

no, chances are that the commander would still have more kills, regardless (age can play a nice factor :P )

 

 

The council protectors being psychics surprises me. At first I thought 'Cool!' but then I thought 'What about Daemonic attack/possession, anti-psyker units etc. Wouldn't that put the council at serious risk? Cool touch with the weps. Got any conversions yet?

 

there will be instances where council guards may try to kill council members, maybe even wounding them, they are not impervious to Chaos..

 

.. and no, I dont have any conversions Just yet :P

 

 

The breakdown of your chapter into companies is awesome. I'm impressed how much detail you went into, but bear in mind this will allow people to nitpick with comments like 'Why are there 150 marines in a brotherhood instead of 149 like normal guys'.

because I included the captain in the numbers (I believe)

 

 

I hate when people do stuff like that.

 

me too

 

 

On colour scheme, got any pics? Im not a huge fan of the white marines, preferring darker colours but I'll hold back judgement til I see some. What colours will their boltguns be? Will they have back banners?

yeah I got a few pictures on my computer (like maybe 4 or 5 or something). Chances are their guns will be blood red and chainmail, with some gold in there on the eagle. And Im not a fan of that back banner thing, I think it looks ugly on the normal troops

 

 

More about what's happened to them since they left their homeworld would be cool

 

their new homeworld in the Sagrado Sector is a Shrineworld, with a population of 455,000,000

 

 

maybe some squad-level stories about some campaigns they've fought in.

 

trying to get some fluff-writers, I cant write myself unfortunately

[Nicili]

I know i sound like the devil's advocate, but again i am just trying to offer constructive criticism.

 

Ignoring chapter size, titans, etc. at your request i do have one more nitpick on your chapter, ( I am truly trying to help, i dont mean to sound like a jerk here)

 

I just feel your chapter for being "renengade" and all and being that size, i feel that your chapter is too arrogant and proud for just being renegade. Most renegade chapters have to constantly hide or run from the Imperium.

 

I think after 7,000 years, your chapter would have been tainted by the power of chaos. Now you might say your chapter might resist chaos and they are so strong...but...the primarchs fell to chaos, and it would be to the same reasons, take Fulgrim for instance: He was Proud Strong and Willed, he had character flaws (Hubris or "Pride" was evident even in Greek Tragedy). He was persuaded by chaos. A God among gods. I feel your chapter, as arrogant as they are, considering your quotes, would have fallen by now.

[Tech-Priest Tjorvi]

oh I dont mind discussing the Titan numbers, that I definately need to fix, I dont want my chapter to have too much power, or to have the Imperium actually have to struggle with engagements all the time.

 

as for the chaos timbits;

 

my chapter worships a C'tan, theres your corruption :lol: lol

 

 

but seriously, while they do worship the Dragon on Mars, with the eating hearts bit, there were Marines that had become corrupted by Chaos, and were forced to be destroyed. Even their gene-seed wasnt recovered from the bodies, believing that that was corrupted as well.

 

And I know this has been just mind-numbingly used over and over again to the ends of time, but if it would help with some of the fluff, then lets say that my chapter was trapped/lost in the warp for 4,000-6,500 years (or whatever is reasonable), as in the Inquisitors report, they believed the chapter destroyed because of a warp storm discovered nearby, but only through recent reports have the Iron Dragons been noticed again (because with 7,000 years, and seeing my sector only being 125 systems (average 6 planets, 4 habitable), then they would have Easily conquered the sector by now, but in my Fluff, they are still battling to gain the rest of the sector

 

 

 

(and for those that are wondering, I dont wish to discuss the 3k marines bit just yet because the discussion wont leave that topic for weeks, trust me, its already happened, and its very frustrating. I could get ;) loads more done if other areas could be discussed)

[Tech-Priest Tjorvi]

hey Ive been trying to add the color schemes I have devised for my Chapter, but for some reason I cant.. like, the button isnt there in the reply window. I checked the Help window, but I couldnt find the right answer :P

[Nine_Breaker]

Okay, so they have psykers and worship a C'Tan? A bit hypocritical, don't you think?

 

Also, as mentioned, the number of titans here is...to bit it in my own words, "a whole fecking lot more than it should be". I'd bump it down to maybe 20 titans. Each forgeworld has its own Titan legion protecting it, so I'd say that each world would have an average of 10 titans (maybe more depending on the worlds importance).

[Tech-Priest Tjorvi]

ooooooohhhhh, you see, I didnt know how many titans would be a lot, and how many wouldnt be, but yeah I can change the 65 to a 20 :D

 

as far as the psykers and worshipping a C'tan, as far as they know it they're worshipping the Machine God on Mars. I dont know if that makes it better/more sence/whatever, but thats how I understand it..

 

anything else you'd like to comment on? :)

[Feroce]

Well, IF the dragon is awake enough to manipulate them such as they are, I personally think that they wouldn't have psychers. The warp is anethema to C'tan. If the chapter had psychers prior to their falling, they'd probably be wiped out by the chapter itself eventually.

 

Hmm... and personally, I wouldn't have Chaplains as their spiritual leaders but tech marines or iron fathers or some such equivalent. They are worshipping a machine god afterall. At very least have them heavily bionic'd and appear to be somewhat like a mix between a Chaplain and a Tech marine.

 

I won't go on about the chapter size or how large it SHOULD be. But keep in mind that 7k years isn't a whole lot of time especially when they fight as much as they do, to gain 3k marines. Even first founding legions like the Salamanders were destroyed to less than a chapter size in a small perior of time. Don't forget that aside from all the fighting and dieing, not every person that is chose to become a marine actually does, and as such will only be partly modified and would have to become members of the marine flreet or chapter serfs to look after their equipment and intallations. A tyranid fleet and three orc warlords would sevearly damage a chapter's numbers, particularly with world as lowly populated as yours. If the planest had a billion or more people then it might be a little more reasonable to think that they'd have enough PDF forces to work with the marines to put up some sort of defence. Marines may be superhuman, but there have been chapters nearly decimated by tyranid or orc forces (Ultramarines, Crimson fists, Scythes of the Emperor, Lamenters, ect.). If they had high population worlds, and a good defence against genestealer cults, as well as a ton of automated defences, then I could see the chapter gaining these sort of numbers in that ammount of time.

 

Also as a side note, the world of Dalaran, that's totally taken from Warcraft. Might want to choose a less recogniseable name. <_<;

 

Sorry for bringing up the numbers issue again, just thought that it might give you a better grasp of how to gain such numbers against such overwhealming odds.

[Nine_Breaker]

But keep in mind that 7k years isn't a whole lot of time especially when they fight as much as they do, to gain 3k marines.

An entire chapter of 1000 marines can be 'grown' in 55 years in theory. So if these guys decided to cut their losses when they needed to and just kept on recruiting then I'm sure, in 7,000 years, they could come up with 3,000 marines...if they have the geneseed for it anyhow. It obviously is looked down upon, but at least it's possible.

 

Even first founding legions like the Salamanders were destroyed to less than a chapter size in a small perior of time.

 

The Salamanders got caught in between 5 traitor legions though! And were taken by surprise at that.

 

 

 

 

Please make note though, I don't like that these guys have so many marines. After all, a chapter of 1,000 is certainly a force to be reckoned with! Just saying that it is possible, even if it is only just.

[Deadlight]

If anything, renegade chapters generally get smaller. To keep below the radar. A force this big would totally stand out, the =I= aren't stupid, just extremely narrow minded. The High Lords wouldn't accept such a loss of resources, and other chapters nearby would be called in to remove their taint. Once renegade, the chapter wouldn't have access to all the additional training (techmarines, apothecaries) as well as the loss of chaplains, repairs to old and access to new vehicles.

[Tech-Priest Tjorvi]

The High Lords wouldn't accept such a loss of resources, and other chapters nearby would be called in to remove their taint.

which is where my campaign Im planning/outlining will come in. I will have several Imperium players play against myself, and if I can finish Codex: Iron Dragons sooner than later, then I can have others play the army to gain more statistics as well ;)

 

 

Once renegade, the chapter wouldn't have access to all the additional training (techmarines, apothecaries) as well as the loss of chaplains, repairs to old and access to new vehicles.

 

my chapter already cant use the Razorback, the Pred. Ann., or the LR Crusader, and that dont bother me none, because except for the Crusader, I dont really like those models :)

 

 

in 7,000 years, they could come up with 3,000 marines...if they have the geneseed for it anyhow.

correct me if Im wrong, but dont Forgeworlds carry some SM geneseed? because if they do, then the 2 FW's in the sector (1 captured and 1 created) should help in that area

 

 

Hmm... and personally, I wouldn't have Chaplains as their spiritual leaders but tech marines or iron fathers or some such equivalent. They are worshipping a machine god afterall. At very least have them heavily bionic'd and appear to be somewhat like a mix between a Chaplain and a Tech marine.

 

Iron Fathers Are Techmarines and Chaplains.. they preform both functions, its in the Iron Hands Fluff

 

 

If the planest had a billion or more people then it might be a little more reasonable to think that they'd have enough PDF forces to work with the marines to put up some sort of defence.

I know this sounds like Star Wars, but my IG are clone armies. They dont have as advanced tech as the clones in the movies, and they dont have lasguns Fluff-wise. Fluff-wise they're armed with projectile weaponary (dont ask, its just the way it is), and there is 200,000 clone guard combat ready every 10 years

 

 

Marines may be superhuman, but there have been chapters nearly decimated by tyranid or orc forces

 

the Tyranid fleet (dubbed Hive Fleet Letum (Latin for 'death,' 'destruction,' etc.)) is rather small, but large enough to warrent some observation on its movements. As for the Orks, they're usually too busy at each others' throats to come together and attack my Marines. However, there will be times where they Do come together and work for the common Waaagh! and the Chapters' size will be reflective of that

 

 

Also as a side note, the world of Dalaran, that's totally taken from Warcraft. Might want to choose a less recogniseable name.

lol yeah I know, I took the name directly out of the Tides of Darkness manual :D besides, there isnt any Copyrighted signs or anything near the name :ph34r: lol I like the name, names are constantly borrowed :P

 

 

Sorry for bringing up the numbers issue again, just thought that it might give you a better grasp of how to gain such numbers against such overwhealming odds.

 

you'd be surprised how much it actually helps.. just giving me the problems of it makes me think of reasons to have that many, and by doing that I add to the Fluff, like major conflicts :D

[Deadlight]

My other point as to the unreasonable size of your renegades would be that, when they go traitor, they would lose the ability to harvest geneseed, on that scale. In order to get to 3000 marines, 1500 would have had to have died, as each marine makes only 1 extra progenoid gland. so for 1500 marines to have died, and all of that geneseed been recovered successfully (which doesnt always happen), then the chapter would have been wiped out completely once, and another half times. and if they are traitor, then who would train their apothecaries, and who would test the viability of these glands.

 

my suggestion to get around this fluffy technicallity may involve darker paths to create that many marines. I think that the involvement of Fabius Bile could be secretly employed, cloning the marines, and the =I= would definiately be upset with that, gives you some extra modelling opportunities for the initial trials (seriously deformed) marines. Perhaps the chapter has access to something that he desires or needs. This would also provide the opportunity for a stand off between an inquisitor and one of the universe's most evil and twisted inhabitants.

 

If your chapter loses, then the entire system could be exterminated to remove the taint of Bile.

[Tech-Priest Tjorvi]

I cant say I like the idea of seriously deformed SM's though. I've already implimented cloning into the tied SM-IG Fluff, but I just dont see it working if I were to use the IH SM models (which I do plan to)

[Tech-Priest Tjorvi]

got the idea a while ago from the Imperial Guard layout and figured it might work for the Space Marines, why not, eh? :devil:

 

 

RESTRICTED UNITS: Razorback, Predator Annihilator, Land Raider Crusader

 

ALTERNATE ORGANIZATION: 3,000 Space Marines in 20 Companies called

[Ferrata]

Not sure if I like the IG style of detailing a chapter, but it all seems good besides one point:

 

ALTERNATE ORGANIZATION: 3,000 Space Marines in 20 Companies called

[iron father]

They're renegades; who's to stop them?

[Ferrata]

Change me question to: What does it add to the chapter?

[Tech-Priest Tjorvi]

the numbers add to the chapter in the sence that the chapter is not your average chapter. It's renegade, it worships the C'tan on Mars, believed to be the Void Dragon, but in this case it's their Machine God. They have heavy ties to the Adeptus Mechanicus cult that worshipped the Machine God (I believe they're called the Cult of the Dragon?) and because of the chapters' situated location (the Ghost Stars), they are not only getting out of reach from the Astronomican(sp?), but there is an increased number of Necron Tomb Worlds there, as well as 2 Tyranid Splinter Fleets, an Eldar Craftworld, several Imperial Crusades numbering at roughly 1200 Loyalist Marines + Guard and Fleet at a time, and an Ork Empire with roughly 7 or so Ork Warlords

 

 

now (and I really dont want to sound rude), but does That help explain the number of Marines in my chapter? :D