Advanced techniques / considerations for painting display minis

[Nurglespawn]

on the topic of diluting paints...

 

i'm going to give a try this weekend at this style of painting, and it occurs to me that one needs a certain amount of speed to do so...

 

so, i plan to dilute my paints with a 91% Isopropyl alcohol, as alcohol by nature evaporates faster than water

 

this way, i'll bea able to paint many thin layers onto the model in quick sucession

 

i'd like to know if anyone's tried this, and if so, whether or not its worked for you

 

Personaly, i think that it should work in theory, but i'm open to all suggestions

 

thanks,

 

N.S.

 

P.S.

 

who in their right mind would give Boltman any :rolleyes: ... i mean, Boltman + Slayer Sword + Guy pissing him off is bound to = a decapitation ^_^

[Dr_m4d_skillz]

I would actually know how the "dilute paints with alkohol" experiment went, because it sounds like a great idea! ;)

 

kinda sad this thread died since I learned alot from it so far! :P

 

one love

 

mvh: skillz

[Grey Knight]

thanks for the suggestions, i Think I'll pick up some glaze medium and matt medium and experiment a little. It's a good thing they have it in Vallejo, as I've recently bought of few model colour paints from them, and i must say i really do like them, more than the GW ones thats for sure.

 

Also, why wouldyou dilute with something that dries FASTER? I've been known to be able to grab a brush and layer stuff pretty quickly but it's so much easier to get things done when your paint stays the same and dries slower than when it takes about 20 seconds until you need to add water back in.

 

By the way, any chance of us seeing some WIP pictures anytime soon?

[RayGun924]

I'm glad it's been resurrected because I have a question if Boltman reads it again or if any of you have insight on how the Europeans do this:

 

Metallics.

 

I noticed that they prime white and then work down from the highlights. But what about metallics? Do they basecoat the area with black first and then work as normal (i.e. basecoat, ink, highlight, wash/glaze)? Or do they work from highlights as well?

 

I'm a big fan of how the Spanish team does metallics. Such as the Spanish Sword winner from last year.

 

~Ray

[Boltman]

I've only withnessed a quick demo of steel, but here's how Allan c does it apparently. Same as regular color, that is undercoat white, then diluted layers of boltgun, concentrating thickness of the paint layer where you want the shade. Then very thin, progressive black paint layers (a little boltgun in it is also good. Add a color for oxydation in the shade if desired, just to tint the black a bit, then a thinned layer of mithril silver towards the light to cover a little more the boltgun layers that, until now, still showed the white undercoat through. Leaving a bit of the white showing is not a bad thing. Thin diluted layers is the key to making a smooth transition in the change from boltgun to black.

 

When I'm done with my month long urban city project I'll get to experimenting these, can't wait.

 

Boltman

[mario]

On the isopropyl dillution: IIRC then isopropyl is a short chanied alcohol so it should b mixable with water based paints. But I don't know how good (too long ago). But it should not be needed. If you think your paints very much and don't flood your brush then each brush stroke will only leave a little bit of paint and water (no pools). The result is that it dries rather fast. You would be lucky if you could use that to paint witha very small brush. From my experience I am happy if I manage to get the thin paint from the brush to the miniature when I am applying paint with brushes that are smaller than 0/2 or something like that. I use drying extender to have something workable when the brush hits the miniature.

 

My guess on the isopropyl would be that it will all be evaporated before you even hit the miniature. So you will be applying some semi-dry paste and not thinned paint. I have in general problems with too fast drying time of my paint mixes on the palette (I paint very slowly) so anything that speeds up the drying process is the bane of zen-painting. And when that happens then I don't like to paint and need to do something else.

 

For the metallics: Somewhere I found and tutorial that two guys wrote who were in a seminar with one of the Ilyad (sp?) miniatures guy. And I don't know if I used babelfish or if they even had an english translation (I will try to find that again but my bookmarks are not easy to data-mine :P). Found it though someones links to someone elses links: here (in french)

 

They did start with a basecoat consisting of a mix of any metallic paoint of your choice and a comparable nonmetallic paint. So you have for example Chainmail and Codex Grey. That way your basecoat doesn't have too many blinky metal flakes in it. For the rest it's like Boltman wrote, paint it like anyithng else, don't just drybrush (use drybrushing if you need it for texture but not for applying basic paint). They highlight by adding more Mithril Silver to this mix and applying highlights consistent with the light source. And like for normal paint thin your paint and blend your highlights. Add glazes as needed and for the shadning use darker compelementary glazes (in the right areas) plus black and apply corrosion/rust where you need/want it.

[maelis]

To get the flakes from metallic paints to settle neatly on a surface it's good to add a little gloss varnish to the mix. Here's a little example http://www.elisanet.fi/toni.sokura/ekkrioni.jpg

[Dr_m4d_skillz]

Boltman, do you have any further reports regarding how to paint metallics, after painting your Lord Graviax? I would really appreciate if you could write up a short summary :teehee:

 

I'm eager to learn!

 

mvh: skillz

[Boltman]

Well what a fortunate event that I take a minute to browse through here!

 

Alright, metallics I feel pretty comfortable with now. Refer to the steel fingers of this model;

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v168/Silphid/2007%20Canadian%20Slayer%20Sword/GraviaxCMON.jpg

 

The whole model is painted white. That is because white from the primer actually shows a bit under the brightest hilights. For steel, I prefer white undercoat, but I basecoat it boltgun thoroughly nevertheless. It just makes the steel brighter. Remember it is easier to shade than hilight with diluted paints. Make sure your basecoat of Boltgun is nice and smooth, this is crucial, consider diluting your boltgun a bit and apply it in 2 or 3 coats to keep the paint thin.

 

Pick a point of light and a point of shade on each surface, according to lighting and angle. Notice that the top digits of the fingers on Graviax are shinier at the knuckles. That is because at usual viewing angle, light on a a metallic surface positionned this way will tend to shine back at your eyes at that spot. What we are doing is simply brightening spots where metals would shine, and darkening places where they would not. That way the metal shines as you look at the miniature from any angle, but you kinda help the shining "perform" in a particular way by enphasizing shades at prefered locations.

 

To do this, very simple, but time consuming. Take water on a waterproof surface (I strongly urge you to get a wet palette), add a touch of black to the water. You get dirty, blackish, see-through water. The more see-through your black water, the better, but the more applications you wioll need to complete the shading, therefore the more time it takes. Dip your brush in, and then soak up the paint from the brush a little bit. When you apply this water to the model, it should not make a pool, simply a moist, slightly wet trace that should dry within a few seconds. Result: you should barely see any change actually. That's ok, apply another layer, waiting for the first one to dry, always. Go from the light towards the shade point, draggin the paint(water!) towards the shade in a very thin, see-through film, simply tinting the steel a bit darker. Let it dry, repeat.

 

As you add layers, start your brush stroke slightly closer and closer to the area of pure shade. Progressively, you are adding thin see-through layers of black tint (there is so little black pigment in your blackish water). Layers after layers, you are "opacifying" the black until, at the base of the fingers, it is pretty much pure opaque black. But the transition between boltgu and black is so smooth and gradual, that under light, the shine is progressive, making an excellent metallic effect. This of course looks much better in real life than on pictures, as opposed to NMM. Back towards teh boltgun (hilight), I dilute a bit of mithril silver, and gently apply a bit of it to brighten further the strongest points. You can also fiddle with a bit of scratches, make a thin black line, then right under it, make a bright mithril line, to simulate the dent and where light would catch the edge fo the dent. That is for pure, kept steel. ON top of this, you could apply a light glaze of a brownish color for oxydation, again, go for the shade areas, on top of black, a few progressive layers of brownish water. Don't put too much, as you want a hint of oxydation. If you want flat-out rust all over, then don't use black to gradually shade, use snakebyte leather, bestial browns, blood red, a d a touch of black, and progressively change color as you shade your way towarde the crack. Additionally, rust shoudl be applied towards teh cracks, interstices, anywhere water would tend to pool, which is not necessarily where you would shade the steel. Careful observation is the trick here.

 

Hope that helps!

[Dr_m4d_skillz]

it really does! interesting reading :tu:

 

what's your tips and tricks for painting gold or brass metallics?

[LunchBox]

I vote this thread be stickied.

 

*And on a side note to the rantings on the previous page...even if Boltman wanted to show off, or feed his ego...HE is entitled to do so. I doubt that very many here see it that way, and those who truely do, may want to review their own personal inadequacies.

[Boltman]

Thanks for the vote of appreciation, but let's leave old quarrels in the past.

 

Gold I painted the same way as teh steel, except that instead of black, I start first shading with bestial brown, then gradually add some purple to the bestial brown for the following layers of shading, and then move to a bit of black in teh purple. I you do a good progressive change in your colors, your gold gain a lot of livelyness. Why Purple? Purple is the complimentary color of yellow, and a complimentary shade seems to work out nicely most of the time. Try using a complimentary color to shade, you may like the effect! For brass I'd suggest more bestial brown shading, and maybe move into the greens a bit for the final shading. Never tried, just an idea.

[Dr_m4d_skillz]

ok, so you start of with boltgun metall when painting gold too? that's interesting, gotta try that :)

 

Yeah I've been using complimentary colours to shade my minis ever since I read your first post in this topic, it really does work wonders, thanks alot :) purple is what I usually add to the yellow when painting Hazard stripes on my Iron Warriors, it works really good!

 

another thing I've been thinking about, in wich order do you tend to paint when using metallic paints? Do you start of with the metallics before moving on to the normal paints sections, or do you start of with the larger areas whatsoever and finish the metall rims after?

 

The reason I'm asking is because I think it would be hard to controll sucha watered down metallic paint, feels like I would get thoose alu flakes allover my mini, totally ruining the non metallic parts.. and therefore be better of painting all the metall sections first? although even if you start of with metallics and get som alu flakes on the white basecoat, it will still shine trough when painting thin layers over it.. guess you have to be really carefull when painting, but it seems hard when painting stuff like Chaos rims :) although with your method with using metallic paint for the basecoat only, and not for shading and so on, seems to lessen the risk for misstakes

 

what's your thoughts about using acrylic medium in your paints? also, what brand of primer do you use for basecoating, and do you use varnish to seal the modell afterwards? if you do what brand and type, because I find alot of varnishes take away some of that metallic glare, but I really hate when the paint is chipping of everytime you fart or cough near it :P

 

thanks alot, MvH: skillz

[Boltman]

No-no, gold is basecoated with gold color, I just use better golds than the GW range (Coat d'arms bright gold is excellent, so is brass balls from P3).

 

I tend to paint main areas first. That way on the large surfaces I don'T need to be too caerful about how I do my glaze-shading, and slow down only for the minute details afterwards. On Chaos marines, the trims therefore go last. Only the basecoat uses metallics, and a bit for the hilights. I apply in 2 layers by metallic basecoat (because I'm lazy). make sure there is very little paint in your brush, and donT' dilute metallics more than 1:1. All teh shading being done with progressively darker colors, if you spill a bit, it'S all good as it wil make a bit of blacklining between the trims and the other surfaces of the model. Just take our time and be careful, tidyness comes with practice.

 

I don't use mediums because it is a better learning experience, and also avoids the shinyness induced in your paint, but I've tried Vallejo's Glaze medium and it does make the glaze shading easier, prevents the tide lines. I know you can add other stuff to yoru paint to try and prevent a glossy finish, but I don'T like to add 50 chemicals to my models. And because ay model with metallics I do not varnish (can't find a good varnish taht will not flatten the metallics), I can't affort my paint to become glossy with medium. When I plan ahead, I try to do the non metallics, seal that in with 3 or 4 layers of Testor's Dullcote, then paint metallics.

 

Oh and primer I always use GW white (when I paint a model to look spiffier). If you're going to paint with glazes to shade in your color, always use white, period. Black works good on scenery or to-be drybrushed necrons... :sweat:

[Dr_m4d_skillz]

Yeah I always use white undercoat, but I'm currently looking for a different brand... had some troubles with the GW primer, sometimes it seems to dry before hitting the miniature, creating a kind of a rough surface, wich is still visible after a couple of thin layers :pinch:

 

and I live in sweden, so it's not like 100 degrees here, and we dont have any problem with to high humidity or something like that

[Dr_m4d_skillz]

oh, and another thing ;)

 

what's your experience with OSL on metallic paints? Is it just me or does OSL make it best on NMM?

[LunchBox]

Well what a fortunate event that I take a minute to browse through here!

 

Alright, metallics I feel pretty comfortable with now. Refer to the steel fingers of this model;

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v168/Silphid/2007%20Canadian%20Slayer%20Sword/GraviaxCMON.jpg

 

The whole model is painted white. That is because white from the primer actually shows a bit under the brightest hilights. For steel, I prefer white undercoat, but I basecoat it boltgun thoroughly nevertheless. It just makes the steel brighter. Remember it is easier to shade than hilight with diluted paints. Make sure your basecoat of Boltgun is nice and smooth, this is crucial, consider diluting your boltgun a bit and apply it in 2 or 3 coats to keep the paint thin.

 

Pick a point of light and a point of shade on each surface, according to lighting and angle. Notice that the top digits of the fingers on Graviax are shinier at the knuckles. That is because at usual viewing angle, light on a a metallic surface positionned this way will tend to shine back at your eyes at that spot. What we are doing is simply brightening spots where metals would shine, and darkening places where they would not. That way the metal shines as you look at the miniature from any angle, but you kinda help the shining "perform" in a particular way by enphasizing shades at prefered locations.

 

To do this, very simple, but time consuming. Take water on a waterproof surface (I strongly urge you to get a wet palette), add a touch of black to the water. You get dirty, blackish, see-through water. The more see-through your black water, the better, but the more applications you wioll need to complete the shading, therefore the more time it takes. Dip your brush in, and then soak up the paint from the brush a little bit. When you apply this water to the model, it should not make a pool, simply a moist, slightly wet trace that should dry within a few seconds. Result: you should barely see any change actually. That's ok, apply another layer, waiting for the first one to dry, always. Go from the light towards the shade point, draggin the paint(water!) towards the shade in a very thin, see-through film, simply tinting the steel a bit darker. Let it dry, repeat.

 

As you add layers, start your brush stroke slightly closer and closer to the area of pure shade. Progressively, you are adding thin see-through layers of black tint (there is so little black pigment in your blackish water). Layers after layers, you are "opacifying" the black until, at the base of the fingers, it is pretty much pure opaque black. But the transition between boltgu and black is so smooth and gradual, that under light, the shine is progressive, making an excellent metallic effect. This of course looks much better in real life than on pictures, as opposed to NMM. Back towards teh boltgun (hilight), I dilute a bit of mithril silver, and gently apply a bit of it to brighten further the strongest points. You can also fiddle with a bit of scratches, make a thin black line, then right under it, make a bright mithril line, to simulate the dent and where light would catch the edge fo the dent. That is for pure, kept steel. ON top of this, you could apply a light glaze of a brownish color for oxydation, again, go for the shade areas, on top of black, a few progressive layers of brownish water. Don't put too much, as you want a hint of oxydation. If you want flat-out rust all over, then don't use black to gradually shade, use snakebyte leather, bestial browns, blood red, a d a touch of black, and progressively change color as you shade your way towarde the crack. Additionally, rust shoudl be applied towards teh cracks, interstices, anywhere water would tend to pool, which is not necessarily where you would shade the steel. Careful observation is the trick here.

 

Hope that helps!

 

 

I'll be returning to metallics tonight, using this as a guide. Unfortunately, the nature of this project is unfit for this forum. This is the best AMM (actual metallic metal :drool: ) tutorial I've ever seen, from one of the best painters on the planet.