NoxI Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 I'm not sure if this belongs here, but this seems like the most appropriate place because my two questions have to do with my DIY chapter's background. 1.) if a ship went out into the halo stars, beyond the astronomician, would the ship be able to navigate or would it be stmbling around in the dark? 2.) In the Codex, it says there are no known Salamanders second founding chapters. Does this mean there are deffinately none or could there be some that are just unknown? The reason I ask is that I want to make my DIY chapter a Salamanders successor. However, in the guide, it says not to claim that your chapter is second founding. As the Codex is notably ambiguous in this case, I was wondering if it would be cheesey to have my chapter be a Salamanders Second Founding Chapter that was lost in the Halo Stars. Thanks. (Hopefully Liber Astartes is the right place to put this) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/89417-some-questions/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nine_Breaker Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 1.) if a ship went out into the halo stars, beyond the astronomician, would the ship be able to navigate or would it be stmbling around in the dark?Navigation would be tricky at best, but not impossible. 2.) In the Codex, it says there are no known Salamanders second founding chapters. Does this mean there are deffinately none or could there be some that are just unknown? The reason I ask is that I want to make my DIY chapter a Salamanders successor. However, in the guide, it says not to claim that your chapter is second founding. As the Codex is notably ambiguous in this case, I was wondering if it would be cheesey to have my chapter be a Salamanders Second Founding Chapter that was lost in the Halo Stars. There very well could be Salamander successor chapters, it's just that nobody takes the time to note the later ones down. However, there are NO 2nd Founding Salamander successors. 3rd Founding? Sure. 4th? Why not? 2nd? Hecks no! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/89417-some-questions/#findComment-1028465 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoxI Posted June 12, 2006 Author Share Posted June 12, 2006 There very well could be Salamander successor chapters, it's just that nobody takes the time to note the later ones down. However, there are NO 2nd Founding Salamander successors. 3rd Founding? Sure. 4th? Why not? 2nd? Hecks no! Hecks no? you sure? ok, whatever, it doesn't matter actually. I was thinking at first that each successive founding's genes had to be based on the previous founding's geneseeds. However, I realize that the founding number denotes time not steps in a ladder. Hmm... I need them to be really lost out there. Like no idea how to get anywhere. Any ideas for this? Thanks Nine, by the way! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/89417-some-questions/#findComment-1028480 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt_Tiberius Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 Yeah there's nothing wrong with Salamanders successors. Both the Black Dragons & Storm Giants are known successors. I'd say do it as it would definitely be a change of pace around here, plus Vulkan was cool. :wacko: As for the navigation question, I assume it can be done, though most would not want to do it. I think that reaching the edge of the Astronomican was one of the reasons Macharius' crusade fell apart (his troops refused to leave the sight of the Astronomican as they believed that the outer territory was full of monsters, i.e. "There me dragons here.."). However back in Rogue Trader, Space Marines were often sent as guards for rogue trader missions, which frequently headed out into unknown territory looking for riches, so it's not beond reason that some crazy fools would try it. Besides Space Marines know no fear... :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/89417-some-questions/#findComment-1028521 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 Both the Black Dragons & Storm Giants are known successors.Suspected, not known. :P Black Dragons are a Cursed Founding (Which, if following the pattern, was apparently an attempt to water down the Blood Angels' Black Rage with the Salamanders), while Storm Giants are...most recent, I think? You can make your DIY any founding of Salamanders geneseed except for Second; there was no Second Founding because their numbers were so low they didn't need to be splintered off into multiple chapters. I have a Chapter of Salamanders' successors that are 22nd founding. Nothing wrong at all with them being a geneseed successor, just not 2nd founding. I am unsure of exactly how the Astronomican and whatnot works with ship navigations, but it is possible that the ship was damaged somehow which prevented use of the Astronomican to use as a guiding beacon. Could happen during a battle of some sort, or they crash landed and damaged their gear and were unable to repair it, maybe a squad went rogue and tried to blow up the ship but failed save for destroying the navigation equipment. That would pretty much destroy their chances of navigating damned near anywhere. 1.) if a ship went out into the halo stars, beyond the astronomician, would the ship be able to navigate or would it be stmbling around in the dark? Or they could stop and ask Master Chief for directions. ...Sorry, that was lame, but it's power armor! :wacko: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/89417-some-questions/#findComment-1028563 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrata Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 There are no Salamander 2nd Founding Successors, due to a number of reasons. Firstly, the Salamanders where always a small Legion. Secondly, they suffered heavy casulaties at Ivstaan. Then I'm sure they also lost a large number of their force in a Warp Jump to Terra, which went terribly wrong. So when the Legions where broken into Chapters, the Salamanders did not have enough Marines to break into two Chapters, thus there a no Salamander Second Founders. Now, they are Salamander Successors who where founded outside of the 2nd Founding, so from the 3rd onwards. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/89417-some-questions/#findComment-1028766 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nine_Breaker Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 The Atronomican works as a beacon for Imperial space ships, like a more primitive type of sea faring ship may use a particularly bright and familier star. They look at where it is, and are able to determine their position and direction of heading by doing so. Perhaps, in the Halo Stars, this signal is completely shot and navigation equipment just goes kinda whacky (think the 'Bermuda Triangle'). If that is the case, then anything that went in could get lost for a very long time and could possibly be stuck in there forever. From what I've seen it isn't that hard for something to be lost at sea for many years, just imagin space! A hell of a lot bigger and with no real ups or downs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/89417-some-questions/#findComment-1028851 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubal Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 I am unsure of exactly how the Astronomican and whatnot works with ship navigations, but it is possible that the ship was damaged somehow which prevented use of the Astronomican to use as a guiding beacon.The 'equipment' is the navigator himself who has a third eye (a pre-imperium mutation) that lets him literally see the warp. If something were to happen to the navigator(s) then they would be SOL and messed up and any other acronyms you can think of :PA way to navigate short distances without navigators are mentioned sometimes but I've never read anything about it myself. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/89417-some-questions/#findComment-1029167 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoxI Posted June 12, 2006 Author Share Posted June 12, 2006 I am unsure of exactly how the Astronomican and whatnot works with ship navigations, but it is possible that the ship was damaged somehow which prevented use of the Astronomican to use as a guiding beacon.The 'equipment' is the navigator himself who has a third eye (a pre-imperium mutation) that lets him literally see the warp. If something were to happen to the navigator(s) then they would be SOL and messed up and any other acronyms you can think of :PA way to navigate short distances without navigators are mentioned sometimes but I've never read anything about it myself. Yeah that's what I thought. Ok, now I just gotta make up a story for why the astronomer couldn't navigate a ship... Thanks a lot guys! Hopefully, you'll be seeing a little storyline for my DIY chapter soon! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/89417-some-questions/#findComment-1029203 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nine_Breaker Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 Yeah that's what I thought. Ok, now I just gotta make up a story for why the astronomer couldn't navigate a ship... The obvious reason would be that the Navigators are killed. :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/89417-some-questions/#findComment-1029254 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoxI Posted June 13, 2006 Author Share Posted June 13, 2006 Haha, well, yeah, but there are options. Such as: the ship crashes and they need a way to repair it (can't navigate a broken ship even if you are the best navigator in the universe :lol: ) Also, if the navigators are outright killed, chances are the valiant and resourceful brothers of the adeptus astartes would likely never get back to the astronomician. Of course, that could make for a good reason why they would be gone for a couple millenia... I just kinda proved your point... Oh well, sweet, I've got a better idea for a story. Another question, what dates were the foundings? You don't have to list all of them, just like 3-12 if you want(anyone). Thanks a lot! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/89417-some-questions/#findComment-1029271 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadlight Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 As far as i'm aware, the salamanders still are not at full strength after the istvaan V incident. Thats why they have no successors, they are barely a chapter themselves. Why do they have to be second founding? The other foundings are just as good. And i think the Storm Giants are from the White Scars geneseed, not the salamanders. If you want your chapter from the halo stars with the Salamanders geneseed. Perhaps your chapter is the result of the Adeptus Mechanicus mixing two (or more) gene samples (think relictors). They have samples of Vulcans geneseed. Perhaps they wanted marines with the hardiness of Salamanders mixed with the temperament of something else like the controlled rage of the Dark Angels, or the impetuousness, independence and bravery of a space wolf. Your chapter do what you want, but these are some suggestions Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/89417-some-questions/#findComment-1029278 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrata Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 Read the Stickies Founding Dates Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/89417-some-questions/#findComment-1029414 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 And i think the Storm Giants are from the White Scars geneseed, not the salamanders. You might be thinking of "Storm Lords", which are a White Scars successor. Also, the numbers of the Chapter currently don't really effect any further foundings. The second was pretty much cutting all the Chapters down to 1,000 so any over that were cut down and those cut formed other Chapters. Since the Salamanders suffered heavy losses to the Warp and the Istvaan Massacre, they were under 1,000 and weren't split off. After that, geneseed submitted to Mars could be used to make successors regardless of the First Founding Chapter's numbers. I had thought I remembered there being "Navigators" on the ship, but since I wasn't sure, I used the catch-all "Equipment was damaged". A computer gets damaged by getting hit by a missile. A Navigator gets damaged by getting shot in the face. Again, you could also have a traitorous sabotage attack in which the traitors shot the Navigator (Or kidnapped him) and then left the ship which left the Chapter floating helplessly through space. Here it probably makes more sense they kidnapped the Navigator rather than shot him, so they could navigate around. Plenty of opportunities to get lost, just please don't do the lost in the warp thing, that's all I ask. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/89417-some-questions/#findComment-1029784 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoxI Posted June 14, 2006 Author Share Posted June 14, 2006 Read the Stickies Founding Dates Haha, I scoured the stickies before I asked my initial questions, I guess I just forgot, since there really isn't that much anyway. Anyway, thanks for that. Darrell, I was thinking something along those lines, though I have thought of something rather creative, in my opinon. :P Deadlight: Yeah, I learned that a little while ago, thanks anyway though. Well, wish me luck on my quest to create a good story! Thanks for all of your help. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/89417-some-questions/#findComment-1029975 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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