Ferrata Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Just because two chapters have similar names doesn't mean they will automatically be brothers/close. Look at the Blood Angels and Dark Angels, these are close. If you want your chapter to feel betrayed by the falling of another chapter I would suggest using another chapter, a DIY chapter. If you use a GW chapter you run the risk of having them ruin your back story. If chapter is meant to be particularly close to them, but when they write them an IA your chapter isn't mentioned, your fluff is shot to pieces. It is always safer to rely on DIY than GW. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/89539-the-iron-cobras-of-phoencis/page/2/#findComment-1053772 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Count Posted July 14, 2006 Author Share Posted July 14, 2006 Good point, didn't think of that. I guess it is time to make that part of the Iron Cobras GW-proof. The Iron Cobras were created from stored Ultramarines Geneseed for the 17th founding. Since then they have had two successor chapters, created in the 21st and 24th foundings, and respectively named the Dark Cobras and Constrictors. The Dark Cobras have returned to the original idea of a crusader chapter and have currently withdrew from the front lines due to their actions opposing the 'green kroosade', which were reasonably successful but cost them dear, appropriate traits for them would be 'suffer not the xenos to live' (orks) and 'faithful unto death'. The Constrictors also became a crusader chapter, and unlike the Dark Cobras, who found their place combating the ork, never found their 'niche', this was not a problem as warriors of the astres will never be unneeded and they found much requirement for their powerful, nonspecialist, skills, and were going to join the the war for Armageddon, but the chapter master disliked the idea of surrendering his fleet to the black templars, as he put it, so they stayed clear and seemingly disappeared, until later a company appeared in orbit among Phoencis, requesting urgent permission to land, the Iron Cobras had always maintained good links with their successors, so they were allowed to land and greeted with open arms. However upon landing two marines walked out, both wounded and they told a tale of how the entire chapter had turned traitor and had cast them out, before they could continue Jotunheim walked forward and told them, "our brothers are and always have been pure, i will not listen to your poisoned words, and he killed them both. A month later the Chapter reappeared, having decided to pursue a particular Ork force that was retreating from Armageddon, in hope of leading them to a choice prize for glory. They returned with the mark of Khorne etched on every hull... Upon hearing this Jotunheim flew into a rage and ordered that every marine and every ship was made ready to engage if they came anywhere near Phoencis. Soon they did come to Phoencis, but Jotunheims preparation paid off and they were forced to disengage when the lead fleet elements were annihilated by carefully prepared firetraps, and the bulk of the chapter circled round and entered the Maelstrom, where they remain. Jotunheim wants them gone, but cannot follow them, so he waits, and when they reappear, he is waiting... well, better? I included traits for the Dark Cobras as i may use them, of course before their recent actions they could have had any mix of traits, but that is what i will use, if anyone else likes any chapter mentioned feel free to mention them in any fluff (may sound like self promotion but wasn't meant as such). Opinions please! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/89539-the-iron-cobras-of-phoencis/page/2/#findComment-1054556 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrata Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 Dark Cobras I would prefer a name further away from your current one. Related chapters don't need to have similar names ;) I'm guessing these are the 21st Founding Chapter. Remember all chapters founded in the 21st suffered from terrible genetic instability as gene-seed playing went on. Change it to 20th or 22nd. Constrictors Its good, but I would like more build up to why they fell and how they fell. Marine chapters don't just fall on a whim, they need to be converted, so more detail is required. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/89539-the-iron-cobras-of-phoencis/page/2/#findComment-1054609 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Count Posted July 14, 2006 Author Share Posted July 14, 2006 The 21st went wrong? i am sure it was the 20th...(has a look around assuming i am not always right) I stand corrected. first change, the dark cobras are 20th founding. Second change, the dark cobras are no longer the dark cobras, they are now the Avengers of Shadow Third change, i will put all my brain cells on working out what happened when the Constrictors left imperial space, and how those two escaped it. Please somebody give me an idea as i hardly have a leg to stand on here Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/89539-the-iron-cobras-of-phoencis/page/2/#findComment-1054628 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrata Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 first change, the dark cobras are 20th founding.Second change, the dark cobras are no longer the dark cobras, they are now the Avengers of Shadow Good :) There are many reason why a chapter will fall, but Khorne makes it slightly easier. Maybe a chapter that's just been sent into battle carelessly one too many times, and in the heat of combat snaps. Or after spending many battles fighting the Orks, they find their combat is failing them, so they prey to the Emperor, only Khorne answers instead. There is always the conversion of a Chapter Master because he has personal flaws and he then rips the chapter apart. Maybe they just spend too long in the warp and go crazy, seeing images of despair and destruction which turn them all mad and to Khorne. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/89539-the-iron-cobras-of-phoencis/page/2/#findComment-1054707 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Count Posted July 14, 2006 Author Share Posted July 14, 2006 taking that into account... how about they chase the ork scum, and eventually are forced to make planet fall to finish their job (the cobra idea of honour here, i am going to work on that next), they land and cut their way through, praying to the emperor for strength to smite the Xenos HtH, however, this far out the Emperor has little influence, and Khorne begins to favour those who are particually good at killing, but the handful of marines remaining on orbit are unaffected. Upon returning to orbit, many captains and chaplains have fell, and some truly ruthless individuals become the new captains, the CM himself has much more of a taste for blood, and this new command structure leads them to seek out new foes, they begin falling on isolated communities of orks and massacring them, further praying to the emperor (unaware here Khorne is answering) for more strength, soon the warriors honour they hold dear has been twisted, by now the horrified group of people remaining spaceward have seen what is happening, and when the highest members of the chapter begin to embody daemonic characteristics the chapter realises what has happened, and by now they are so far gone they are happy to enter service of Khorne, whilst those who had fought little ram for their lives, a small ship with two marines on board managing to get to Phoencis without being destroyed... meanwhile the Constrictors began to fight their way towards their parent chapter, their now twisted warrior code demanding they show that the child has overtaken the parent... all i need is to throw in a couple of names and it is done i think, but any ideas are welcomed as always, if this all goes well i think i will set down the Cobras honour code, and that will allow me to review their place in the Imperium in light of it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/89539-the-iron-cobras-of-phoencis/page/2/#findComment-1054732 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrata Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 Its ok, but it would be better for them to turn in one battle. Imagine the scene, the honourable Space Marines are fighting the cursed Orks who are trying to get to a human population protected by the marines. The marines fight honourable for days, keep the Orks at bay, but the blood lust comes at a price. Chanting for protection and strength from the Emperor, Khorne decides the would be easy to convert. Calling out to one of the captains who has a flaw in his character, he turns one of the captains to his blood lust. This captain starts chanting a new chant, one dedicated to Khorne (thought not obviously) and slowly this chant takes over, unknowning that by every chant the fall closer to chaos. They keep chanting because as the chant they become more powerful, until all the Orks are dead. The Space Marines, so consumed by this blood lust now turn round and slaughter the human population they were just defending. After all those days of being honourable they have fallen to the curse and slay all those Marines still loyal.... :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/89539-the-iron-cobras-of-phoencis/page/2/#findComment-1054744 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Count Posted July 14, 2006 Author Share Posted July 14, 2006 when you do that it is obvious which of us has lots of experience on this kind of thing. Not that i mind as it means my chapter ends up with a better background. So cheers! I think i will use that pretty much as it is, at the edge of Imperial space, the Constrictors cease chasing the orks to go and save another planet that has been attacked by part of the ork fleet heading the other way (they couldn't wait long enough to fight!), their honour demands they go and defend the human population. They fight, whilst in a prayer, and Khorne senses one of the captains takes the honour too far... and then he corrupts the rest and orks die etc..., they return to Imperial space proper (ie not right at the frontier). Where the honour, which made them great defenders of the Imperium, but was also their downfall, has been twisted... Better. Much better i think. Also I think i may have ago at painting a spare marine up so i have reference for each successor. Well, ill leave this until tomorrow evening to see what everyone thinks (or is it just you now Ferrata? heh heh) and then unless i have anything to deal with ill have ago at writing an honour code and inventing a catchy name for it that is snake related. For the Emperor! lord of gods! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/89539-the-iron-cobras-of-phoencis/page/2/#findComment-1054754 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Count Posted July 15, 2006 Author Share Posted July 15, 2006 well, this whole honour thing is harder than i thought... I know i want a bit about glorifying battle in the emperors name, a bit about worshipping the emperor as lord of gods and a bit about revenge for those wrongs. So if anyone can think of anything along these lines then please say, expand on what was said as you feel fit, or tell me i am being a bit foolish trying to define a concept which other members of the Imperium have trouble understanding in full, i don't mind which. As i don't intend on getting every last bit down, just the basis and relevant parts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/89539-the-iron-cobras-of-phoencis/page/2/#findComment-1055387 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrata Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 If you could explain what you mean more, I'll be happy to help. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/89539-the-iron-cobras-of-phoencis/page/2/#findComment-1055764 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Count Posted July 16, 2006 Author Share Posted July 16, 2006 Okay then, basically what i mean is that Phoencians as a whole are driven by a concept of honour. This is a system of beliefs that they believe they must adhere to remain the best of the Emperors (or gods) servants. This system has many parts which make no sense to outside organisations. I don't intend to have the whole concept, so i can leave out some concepts such as the above. The natives use this concept as well, but they make no mention of the Emperor, but do refer to the gods. The general idea is that battle and killing are glorious and raise your worth in the eyes of the gods or Emperor. A part i have is about not harming Cobras (the image of the snake gods) Also vengeance is quite a strong idea. If you think of anything that fits with the theme i have going let me know. I hope that makes it clearer :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/89539-the-iron-cobras-of-phoencis/page/2/#findComment-1055800 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrata Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 I hope that makes it clearer Not much but I'll have a go. The Marines believe that they must remain pure as servents of the Emperor, and the only way to remain pure is to wash away your sins by the killing of the sinful or non-believers. The population of their home world have a similar belief system, but instead of remaining pure serveants of the Emperor, but to the Snake god. As they imagine their god to be in the image of a Cobra, they dare not attack a Cobra, and if one is attacked by a Cobra it means that god wanted them to die, thus they are sinful and not helped by medicine. Now Vengence is another thing to add here, which is quite hard to weave into the above idea, but I will give it another go. When you require vengence, it is usually because someone has dishonoured or bested you in someway, thus your honour is stained, therefore you are impure. These stains can not be removed by battle because they are a direct stain from a direct cause, so you need to right this stain to become pure again. Both of these things could also link into them having an obsession of a pure gene-seed, which is another thing again. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/89539-the-iron-cobras-of-phoencis/page/2/#findComment-1055819 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Count Posted July 16, 2006 Author Share Posted July 16, 2006 Ah, thats it! Thats the spark of inspiration! Thankyou! Give me a day on word and i think i could have it! Note to self, never ever again invent chapter with complex honour concept. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/89539-the-iron-cobras-of-phoencis/page/2/#findComment-1055847 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Molotov Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 I actually think the idea of the Constrictors returning to 'prove their worth' by besting their parent is a really strong, original and vibrant idea. It's got a huge amount of potential behind it. I won't go in-depth with your fluff because Ferrata's doing a great job helping you. I just wanted you to know that you've got some incredibly strong ideas here. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/89539-the-iron-cobras-of-phoencis/page/2/#findComment-1055901 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Count Posted July 17, 2006 Author Share Posted July 17, 2006 Cheers, i'm glad you like it! My aim always was to create a chapter, which although may not be painted entirely tremendously (i cant paint well enough for that...) but has a rich background which is original and would make people look up and notice it. Hopefully that is happening. Well but enough of that, lets have a go at honour with Ferrata's idea as a start (sorry i couldn't make it that clear, it is a difficult idea to explain, well for me...) this is believed by native Phoencians and the Iron Cobras, whilst a warped version is used by the constrictors and the Avengers of Shadow use a variant, but i will not go into the two variants. Also whenever i refer to the Emperor i would mean a snake god for the natives. It is believed that when you die, those that had more honour in life will be closer to the Emperor in death. Also it is believed you have no honour when you are born. Some are happy to live life without honour and they are those in the villages, they believe there are other ways to get close to their lord god (not knowing of Golden Boy). But for the marines and woodsmen they gain honour through killing those who oppose any or all of their ideas, such as not recognising the divine light of the emperor (as a note the odd official on Phoencis has died through not recognising the snake gods...). The Phoencian Cobra is considered to be the pure representation of the Emperor, and so must not be harmed, doing this is an unforgivable sin, destroying lifetimes worth of honour, anyone that has done this has taken their life immediately as in order to explain why they did this, and hoping the punishment will not be too severe... As they gain more honour the natives see alternative means of gaining honour, such as by helping those in need. Few marines take this route, as their purpose is to kill, but more experienced marines will try to avoid civilian casualties, notably an absent idea from younger marines. Outside organisations have difficulty understanding it due to the fact some things a villager could do would be seen as honourable, whilst a warrior would find it dishonourable, this is a kind of arrogance, there IS honour in farming the land, but in comparison to battle there is little, so warriors look down on villagers, and yet recognise their simple honour. In their apparent weakness they recognise the small honour there is, and are sorrowful even, that they cannot survive with that little honour. If you are wronged it is believed you lose honour, and any wronged party would fight to get it back. This can be done by killing the offender, or removing a limb or something similar if the offender doesnt deserve death (ie they have a lot of honour). There are many things that are believed to be a wrong: -stealing (some cases farm equipment, in some cases a certain place to stand, depending on magnitude of the theft depends on the magnitude of vengeance there will be) -not fighting 'a fair fight' basically using an unfair advantage to win (think having allies help in a 1 on 1 fight), anyone defeating a cobra like this will have the rest of the deads squad baying after them, to reclaim his honour so he can use it in death. -being bested, the way to get honour back here is to win a re fight There is much more than this but i think this gives the flavour of what i mean so allows it to be understood, and it shows why the cobras find acting honourably so important (so they can see the emperor). I don't think i will write much more on it as it is supposed to be a vast concept, much of which wont apply to the chapter. But now the idea is written people will know what i mean when i say the Cobras will do something because there is honour in it, and the fundamentals are written down. Cheers for help with the concept Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/89539-the-iron-cobras-of-phoencis/page/2/#findComment-1056173 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Count Posted July 17, 2006 Author Share Posted July 17, 2006 also that gives some explanation as to why they have such a hatred of many Imperial organisations, as they beleive by not giving them the time they wanted they dishonoured them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/89539-the-iron-cobras-of-phoencis/page/2/#findComment-1056945 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrata Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Looks good, now get it in a more readable format or I'll set the Rats on you! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/89539-the-iron-cobras-of-phoencis/page/2/#findComment-1056947 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Count Posted July 17, 2006 Author Share Posted July 17, 2006 should i start a new thread? oh and we all know what snakes do to rats... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/89539-the-iron-cobras-of-phoencis/page/2/#findComment-1056959 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrata Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 should i start a new thread? Nope, just make it flow a lot better instead of being disjointed sentences. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/89539-the-iron-cobras-of-phoencis/page/2/#findComment-1056967 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Count Posted August 10, 2006 Author Share Posted August 10, 2006 well i have been back a couple of days now so will begin work on getting a full IA done, I am aware i have been asked about the colour scheme and chapter symbol and i will put pictures up as soon as i learn how to work the digital camera without something blowing up, and then to get the pictures here. So hold with me for that. Also i am considering changing the iron part of the name, to avoid confusion with the iron snakes and the steel cobras, does anybody have any opinions or ideas? Once that is resolved i will try and get the IA finished and posted, if i am lucky at the same time as i can get the camera to work, but maybe not... Also as an aside, if anybody has an easy way to make a totem pole that looks like it has carvings of snakes on, and more importantly that can be made cheaply let me know. "Faith is our venom! Succumb to it!" Cheers The Count Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/89539-the-iron-cobras-of-phoencis/page/2/#findComment-1075799 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Count Posted August 14, 2006 Author Share Posted August 14, 2006 well, here it is! fanfare! celebrations! no? ah well, here is an IA IA: Iron Cobras Chapter name: Iron Cobras Founding: 16th founding Geneseed: Ultramarines Homeworld: Phoencis Located near the Maelstorm, Phoencis is a planet that could be considered beautiful by some. Towering peaks, large areas of woodland and deep lagoons. The population largely lives in great wooden floating villages, happily living their lives as fisherman, the dangers faced by these are few, as of all the watery inhabitants the few that are dangerous fear the light, however on the occasion they do rise from the deep the village in question will simply be wiped off the map. The other inhabitants of Phoencis live in the woods, where survival is tough, it is here that the Iron Cobras take most of their recruits; hunters, trappers, criminals and more besides call the woods their home, it isn't an easy life, but it is one where your life or death is dependant on yourself and those you are with, and this breeds hardy warriors for the Iron Cobras to recruit, appearing from the night and snatching away the chosen recruits. The hardships faced in the woodlands are variable, ranging from swarms of small insects, too the gigantic Phoencian Cobra, easily capable of swallowing a man whole. Over generations people have learnt how to live, although their numbers remain few, their fellow Phoencians living a much easier life. Some yearn to return to the villages, but cant, for a variety of reasons, whilst others hate the weakness that they believe is shown by the villagers. They worship a group of Gods, all of which are snakes, believing that by being honorable in life they will be close to the gods in death. Upon learning of the Emperor they place him as the chief god, embodying all of the snake gods. There are two keeps for the chapter on the planets. The first is atop the highest mountain on the planet, this holds between 300 and 600 marines plus the majority of vehicular support, the other keep is below the deepest lake on the planet, and this is purely for the veteran company and chapter master. First chapter master: Haffeyd Current Chapter Master: Jotunheim Successor chapters: Avengers of Shadow (20th) The Avengers hold true to the Iron Cobras original role as a crusader chapter. Recently they took heavy casualties fighting Orks in the 13th black crusade, and are rebuilding. They have kept contact with the Iron Cobras and they often co-ordinate actions if they are both present, although they have a different version of the honour code that the Cobras use, reflecting the many cultures they have integrated into the chapter. Constrictors (25th, now excommunicate traitorous) The Constrictors also held true to the original ideals of the Iron Cobras, crusading at the frontiers of Imperial space. However recently they turned to worship Khorne. The honour concept they use was again different, integrating many cultures; this had made them very proud, almost arrogant. As a result they refused to take part in the third war for Armageddon, as they would not put their fleet assets under Helbrechts command. Instead they embarked on a charge into unknown territory. Eventually they reach a planet that appears human, they make planetfall and see that the planet is overrun with orks, with pockets of resistance, in order to adhere to their honour, they charge headfirst, praying to the Emperor for guidance, they don Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/89539-the-iron-cobras-of-phoencis/page/2/#findComment-1078674 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodwraith Posted August 16, 2006 Share Posted August 16, 2006 My one problem is that you should slaughter the chaplains because having them fall isn't believable in my opinion. The amount of indoctrination they go through and testing and what not to prove they are worthy. Slaughter the curs in the name of the blood god. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/89539-the-iron-cobras-of-phoencis/page/2/#findComment-1079634 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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