Starks333 Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 FIRST: I WANT ALL IDEAS, i dont care if you think they suck, or are too lazy :) i want them! anything can be done! (well...almost) alright, so as many know i just finished painting Torquemada, it finished 2nd at Conflict Ottawa, annnnd i cant find St. Celestine's photo(and i could never get myself to draw it..) so now ive chosen the cover of Codex:Daemonhunters THIS ONE: http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y218/Starks3333/Torquemada.jpg ***alright so ive cropped the size, but should i include/exclude? change? anything you would like to see included or excluded so as to not make it a direct copy of the picture(so its less, hey nice photocopy more, hey sweet drawing) some ideas from me: -maybe cut out the characters and stuff on the right side -maybe make hammer a bit bigger -maybe cut down on skulls -maybe add in the two headed eagle(where the characters were cut out, or over his head somewhere?) -maybe add his loin robe thing, to fill the gap between his legs, it kinda looks awkward in the photo -maybe cut out the crap on his back, it looks...odd or out of place -maybe add in a servo skull somewhere if it fits? i want to make this picture unique and beautiful, and that means you input!! I will post some sketches soon of some examples of above(im terrible at sketching so the drawing WILL look 1438217480180 times better than the sketch, i promise :( ) SKETCH with ideas above included^ (sorry for the poor photo, the black is from the photo program not my pencil!) http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y218/Starks3333/Art/HPIM0788.jpg http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y218/Starks3333/Art/HPIM0793-1.jpg ***now if you like that, what should i do with the bottom right corner? round hammer like on the model(and my sketch) or the detailed one from the original? the upper part is from original, i love the sky/daemon spirits and how they move around the drawing Starks Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/90171-art-project-yaaaaaayadded-sketches/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoxI Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 Cool! I say that you should have him doing something with his left arm. The picture looks a bit akward ,I think, without it Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/90171-art-project-yaaaaaayadded-sketches/#findComment-1037274 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starks333 Posted June 23, 2006 Author Share Posted June 23, 2006 Cool! I say that you should have him doing something with his left arm. The picture looks a bit akward ,I think, without it ***actually i was thinking of having the eagle on his arm just about to take off, filling the space where the retinue is right now(on the right side) and because of his pose his arm would be pointing downwards, the eagle touching his arm but in take off mode what do you think? Starks Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/90171-art-project-yaaaaaayadded-sketches/#findComment-1037283 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Chaplain Astador Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 Sounds like a solid idea. Now get to work, I have nothing to add to what you said, take out the retinue, and some skulls, an dth eagle idea is great! Cheers, MCA. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/90171-art-project-yaaaaaayadded-sketches/#findComment-1037292 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kraegus Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 I don't quite understand, why would you paint artwork somebody else has created? Why not draw your own daemonhunter and then paint him? What's the point in duplicating other people's work, when you could come up with something on your own, stretch your imagination and get real practise at making and correcting your own errors? You learn how to draw by using your own imagination, not somebody else's... o :) 2cents Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/90171-art-project-yaaaaaayadded-sketches/#findComment-1037300 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starks333 Posted June 23, 2006 Author Share Posted June 23, 2006 Sounds like a solid idea. Now get to work, I have nothing to add to what you said, take out the retinue, and some skulls, an dth eagle idea is great!Cheers, MCA. ***ok, sounds good! I don't quite understand, why would you paint artwork somebody else has created? Why not draw your own daemonhunter and then paint him? What's the point in duplicating other people's work, when you could come up with something on your own, stretch your imagination and get real practise at making and correcting your own errors? You learn how to draw by using your own imagination, not somebody else's... o :) 2cents ***because im not able to create my own, i cant get the ideas onto paper, the only way i can do things is if i take someone elses work/picture whatever and change it, or draw from it etc(so real life shot of an animal to draw a cartoon version or something)...otherwise ya of course id draw my own...ive tried about 321078983901284091284901284098304823 times to draw my own stuff but it always looks awful, the dragon master sketch i had up was from my model, so again not out of my head and to be honest, if you look at the adjustments and ideas, essentially i am drawing my own, especially after all the friggin changes this thing needs to be accurat, his body or torqued out of whack, it will look alike and a lot the same, but still unique why not create your own models instead of painting others works? because they are there, and its fun! also not everyone in the world is able to be creative that way...im very creative, but not when it comes to this sort of thing so any ideas how to make it more unique less recreation(which was mentioned in my firts post as something i was aiming for) thanks Starks Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/90171-art-project-yaaaaaayadded-sketches/#findComment-1037310 Share on other sites More sharing options...
syne Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 I would looove to see a nice re-rendereing of the old 3rd edition Space Marine Codex's cover done with 'more modern' proportions, details etc. I still really like the character, composition and brilliant capturing of action/ intensity in that painting. Were I more competent with pencils and paper I would relish in making an homage to it, but perhaps it would be a good challenge for you :) . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/90171-art-project-yaaaaaayadded-sketches/#findComment-1037315 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starks333 Posted June 23, 2006 Author Share Posted June 23, 2006 I would looove to see a nice re-rendereing of the old 3rd edition Space Marine Codex's cover done with 'more modern' proportions, details etc. I still really like the character, composition and brilliant capturing of action/ intensity in that painting. Were I more competent with pencils and paper I would relish in making an homage to it, but perhaps it would be a good challenge for you :) . ***you know what? maybe it is in store for the future i DO play Crimson Fists!!! *liking the idea* Starks Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/90171-art-project-yaaaaaayadded-sketches/#findComment-1037317 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kraegus Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 ***because im not able to create my own, i cant get the ideas onto paper, the only way i can do things is if i take someone elses work/picture whatever and change it, or draw from it etc(so real life shot of an animal to draw a cartoon version or something)...otherwise ya of course id draw my own...ive tried about 321078983901284091284901284098304823 times to draw my own stuff but it always looks awful, the dragon master sketch i had up was from my model, so again not out of my head nobody is born with the ability to draw. I didn't wake up one day and say, "hey! I can paint!" I'm perfectly aware of the frustration that comes along with artwork, or at least 40k. I know how difficult it is to have the continued drive to draw warhammer after you see guys like madscuzzy come along and blow your work out of the water. The thing is, is you have to ignore what others can do, don't EVER compare yourself seriously to somebody else, because you're not them. When you become really good, you'll be bringing yourself down to their level, and when you're not as good, you'll always see your stuff as inferior. It's a brutal cycle. I teach an Art class, and the idea of the "inner critic", saying my stuff isn't as good as theirs can often be the only thing holding a student back from creating really good art. If you tell yourself your stuff is awful, you'll never get better. Critique, but don't be overly Critical You have to focus on what you like about a picture, not what you dislike. Beginner art, at least from my perspective, isn't so much trying to create art without mistakes, but instead trying to incorporate the things you did well on your last picture. Madscuzzy didn't wake up one morning and say: "Hey! I think I'm gonna draw really well from now on!" why he is good is the same reason every other artist you can think of is good. He practises. I know you say you've done X number of pictures without success, but still, you *have* to keep trying. The reason why scuzz and those guys are good is because even when their art was bad, they didn't quit. The only difference between guys like Monet and yourself is: -He's Dead, He was nearly blind, and he was born a lot earlier than you. Monet did not have any more artistic "ability" than a monkey. What he did have was a practised eye for detail, composition, and colour. Things all learned from experience. it sounds cliche, but it's true: Toil and Perseverance make the artist, not expensive paints or inbred talent. -kraegus Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/90171-art-project-yaaaaaayadded-sketches/#findComment-1037324 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starks333 Posted June 23, 2006 Author Share Posted June 23, 2006 nobody is born with the ability to draw. I didn't wake up one day and say, "hey! I can paint!" ***...i did, i get better without practice, i was never taught to draw, i just knew how, i rarely practice, in fact i dont practice ever I'm perfectly aware of the frustration that comes along with artwork, or at least 40k. I know how difficult it is to have the continued drive to draw warhammer after you see guys like madscuzzy come along and blow your work out of the water. ***actually it has nothing to do with others works, in fact i dont care much, i only care about my standard The thing is, is you have to ignore what others can do, don't EVER compare yourself seriously to somebody else, because you're not them. When you become really good, you'll be bringing yourself down to their level, and when you're not as good, you'll always see your stuff as inferior. It's a brutal cycle. I teach an Art class, and the idea of the "inner critic", saying my stuff isn't as good as theirs can often be the only thing holding a student back from creating really good art. If you tell yourself your stuff is awful, you'll never get better. Critique, but don't be overly Critical ***i never like anything i do....but its what motivates me to do better You have to focus on what you like about a picture, not what you dislike. Beginner art, at least from my perspective, isn't so much trying to create art without mistakes, but instead trying to incorporate the things you did well on your last picture. ***i do this, in fact the last drawing(i put effort in) the goal was ot improve hair and well Linky you tell me how it looks :) thats all my real attempts at drawing, i think thers one portrait that isnt there, its tiny and its in some book somewhere...i donno Madscuzzy didn't wake up one morning and say: "Hey! I think I'm gonna draw really well from now on!" why he is good is the same reason every other artist you can think of is good. He practises. ***actually...i do that, honestly, i wake up and instantly draw better, im not even kidding, the portraits above explain, Brittni then Kim, yr in between(or more) i did no drawing other than cartoons(which wasnt veyr much) and i improved that much I know you say you've done X number of pictures without success, but still, you *have* to keep trying. The reason why scuzz and those guys are good is because even when their art was bad, they didn't quit. The only difference between guys like Monet and yourself is: -He's Dead, He was nearly blind, and he was born a lot earlier than you. Monet did not have any more artistic "ability" than a monkey. What he did have was a practised eye for detail, composition, and colour. Things all learned from experience. ***oh ive never quit, dont get me wrong, i just prefer to draw from pictures, i still attempt to draw my own(i leave that for my cartoon im creating) as i add realistic look with a bit of creativity i do have(as mentioned i do not have any mechanical/electrical ideas, just dont) it sounds cliche, but it's true: Toil and Perseverance make the artist, not expensive paints or inbred talent. **you may think im being arrogant or whatever, but im not, im explaning how it is, i honestly do NOT practice drawing ever, ive done maybe...30 drawings in my life, excluding random doodles, which dont count, and painted maybe 20 models if that and i dont believe the "everyone has the ability in them" stuff, its how two people are different, one has the talent, the other doesnt, vision is talent sometimes Starks Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/90171-art-project-yaaaaaayadded-sketches/#findComment-1037331 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kraegus Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 You and I are talking about different things I think. I do not dispute in the least that your technical ability improved without practise, but that's to be expected with age. I'm saying the ability to put on paper what's in your head is a result of practise. You do not have the practise (as you have stated) and thus you can't do it. You want electrical and mechanical ideas? Look at a broken radio, get real life reference, then practise drawing the shapes that make up that real life object. Tha'ts how you get practise at drawing things out of your head. You need the practise of doing it a few times before. (i said practise 5 times there, maybe I'm over-emphasizing my point ^_^ ) look, If you have fun doing what you do and don't really care about doing it different, then there's no problem is there? All I'm sayig is that I think you're denying yourself the opportunity to be really good because you can't be bothered to practise since you think you haven't got "talent". As for "everybody has ability" Drawing is like writing. When you printed letters for the first time you weren't great at it, nobody is. It's because you do it over and over that we get good at something. Drawing out of your head is the same thing. There was a post somebody put up on the CGtalk forum on that website, which chronicled his 2 year journey into art. He started off with no lessons or anything, his pictures were crap, and he couldn't even paint a proper square. After two years of solid practise he could paint stuff that could be put in a gallery. He was an average guy who had no speck of recognizable "talent" before his self-imposed marathon, yet at the end he was really damn good. REALLY good. I'm not going to sit here and nitpick over whether "talent" exists or not more than that though. it's an age old argument, I'm giving my 2 cents, whether you choose to believe me or not is your concern. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/90171-art-project-yaaaaaayadded-sketches/#findComment-1037344 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starks333 Posted June 23, 2006 Author Share Posted June 23, 2006 ohhh ok i see what you mean, ya ive done a bit of that(toook me FOREVER to get the spiral stairs i wanted right... ) well then you will like the sketch im going to post eventually, ive taken what i saw, and changed it a bunch, the pose that was drawn didnt sit well and i had to try over an dover to finally get it to look right in my eyes i think this drawing incorporates a lot of my own stuff, but because its from another drawing(and model) i only have to create how it should look, rather than what it should look like i take criticism better than anyone so once its up feel free to comment at will Starks Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/90171-art-project-yaaaaaayadded-sketches/#findComment-1037352 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt_Tiberius Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 I have to agree with Kraegus on this. Copying another's work is not the right way to go about it. Drawing from a model is better as it gives you a reference to go by, but you should only use it as a basis and not the look of the end result. because im not able to create my own, i cant get the ideas onto paper, the only way i can do things is if i take someone elses work/picture whatever and change it, or draw from it etc(so real life shot of an animal to draw a cartoon version or something)...otherwise ya of course id draw my own...ive tried about 321078983901284091284901284098304823 times to draw my own stuff but it always looks awful, the dragon master sketch i had up was from my model, so again not out of my headWell of course it's going to look bad, you never practise. If you just draw a picture a day, I'll 100% gaurentee you'll get better. I've never had a formal art class beyond basic drawing and perspective, But I'm fairly decent at it because I draw almost everyday, even if it's a little doodle. Just don't let the bad pictures get you down, just keep drawing and eventually horrible becomes okay, the good, then great... You seem to have a decent start and I'd hate to see you just stall out regurgitating others work. Sorry if that sounds harsh as it is not my intention. As an artist I know how tough it is, but if you really enjoy creating, I hope you listen to our advice. If you need help stop by my art forum (link in my sig below). There a bunch of great guys there who are still learning the ropes and some who are farther along, we'd all be happy to help you improve if you desire. ^_^ I teach an Art class, and the idea of the "inner critic", saying my stuff isn't as good as theirs can often be the only thing holding a student back from creating really good art. If you tell yourself your stuff is awful, you'll never get better. Critique, but don't be overly Critical Ahhhh...that explains alot. :D If nothing else you have helped me. I'm constantly battling my own inner critic, and from this day forth I resolve to suck it up and stop worrying that I'm not good enough. Cheers! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/90171-art-project-yaaaaaayadded-sketches/#findComment-1037368 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starks333 Posted June 23, 2006 Author Share Posted June 23, 2006 i dont think ive ever received so many posts telling me not to do something...wow...anyways, sketch is up, this is one im going to do, because i like the picture/pose/detail and everything as to creating my own, ill leave that to the dragon master, if i can somehow figure out how to give that a pose/life i want without having the model in that pose...and do cool effects like the dragon spirit..... Starks Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/90171-art-project-yaaaaaayadded-sketches/#findComment-1037380 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starks333 Posted June 23, 2006 Author Share Posted June 23, 2006 i need some input before i go and draw the real thing----> legs, do they still look awkward? if so what do you think i need to do? completely reposition them? maybe a minor change? next the elbow pad on the extended arm, it looks awful in sketch should i make the elbow pad ridges a bit bulkier to draw away from the joining piece?(hosey type stuff) what else needs to be added/should be etc Starks Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/90171-art-project-yaaaaaayadded-sketches/#findComment-1037732 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starks333 Posted June 23, 2006 Author Share Posted June 23, 2006 ok this may be getting annoying as ive posted three times in a row, but its another update, and no one seems to be posting so...... its a bit blurry, dont have a tripod, ok so i swapped out skulls for the rock i had on my actual model, i added Torquemada style chest with a bit from the older version(note the leg thats in the middle of nowhere to the right is the actual angle of the leg that will be in place, as the one thats attached right now doesnt seem to be on the proper angle-the original drawing) it needed to be turned a bit so his kneecap didnt look dislocated :D http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y218/Starks3333/Art/HPIM0795-1.jpg Ok so any other dieas to make it more of my own drawing(since uh...copying isnt a preferred thing here) ther pose and the sky are staying because they made me want to draw this in the first place, but i can add other details and stuff for coolifying thanks Starks Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/90171-art-project-yaaaaaayadded-sketches/#findComment-1037986 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Chaplain Astador Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 I think it looks great so far! keep up the good work. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/90171-art-project-yaaaaaayadded-sketches/#findComment-1038144 Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyinghippo Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 Personally I think it looks a little odd having the hammer in that position but only holding it with one hand :P Other than that it looks great. -_- Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/90171-art-project-yaaaaaayadded-sketches/#findComment-1038150 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starks333 Posted June 24, 2006 Author Share Posted June 24, 2006 Personally I think it looks a little odd having the hammer in that position but only holding it with one hand :ph34r: Other than that it looks great. :ph34r: ***might be the angle i did it on, ill clean that up in the final, its raised over his head about to swing down, so just think of how you hammer nails in anyways i started puttin it on the bigger page, i think i have the measurements about right, ill do some more work and then post a WIP thanks, any more comments? i can still make changes Starks Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/90171-art-project-yaaaaaayadded-sketches/#findComment-1038403 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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