Collaborative Chapter Creation Project II

[Commissar Molotov]

I received this PM from Terroristos:

 

I would really like to take part in this Collaborative Chapter Creation program. Though between the time of creating my own chapter and doing this, I shall have a tough time in helping out, but I will none the less like to participate, and would like to say, would we be able to develop fluff for the Sons of Orar chapter? It would be awesome if we could develop some fluff for it. Thanks for listening and have a good day!!! I added you to my msn, look forward to talking to you.

 

The problem with the Sons of Orar is that they wouldn't be a good candidate for the project. The Sons of Orar were created by Keith Robertson, part of the 'Eavy Metal team, and can be seen in various White Dwarves and Codex: Space Marines. In WD 305 (UK), there is a Sons of Orar Terminator Librarian - Keith says:

 

'My Sons of Orar chapter have a history of fighting Tyranids which I wanted to represent through the use of trophies...'

 

This would suggest Preferred Enemy as one of the traits. They're most definately a DIY, though, and as such they're not available for us to fluff out.

[Commissar Molotov]

Alright, so a summary of the discussion thus far:

Angels of Fire

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v696/Brother-Librarian/Damage%20Inc%20stuff/AngelsofFirethumb.jpg

http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/3714/esangelsoffire1no.jpg

'...While I'm not a huge fan of the flames as chapter badge, but I saw a few drawings from an Armageddon article that were intrigueing. They had a sword relic that looked promising.'

 

Angels Porphyr

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v650/Cpt_Tiberius/22.jpg

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/2787/esangelsporphyr7tl.jpg

'Just thought they had a nice heraldry and we know they participated in the 3rd Armageddon conflict so that gives us a bit of history to work from.'

 

Black Guard

'...the Black Guard, a second founding Raven Guard successor which has no other fluff for them (and are even forgotten by GW on their SM Gallery), they don't even have a symbol.'

'...always liked to wonder about them, seeing as they are practically a blank canvas... maybe the Black Guard would fit comfortablly as the Space Marine equivilent of the Special Forces, fast and deadly, yet designed for stealth.'

'Their name just screams villains. There is a class in D&D named Blackguard – a fallen paladin, champion of darkness, black knight. We could show how the chapter changed from noble knights (ok raven guard successors are not very knightly, but we can come up with something) into sinister (but still loyal) murderers killing civilians and virus bombing planets.'

 

Black Wings

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v650/Cpt_Tiberius/28.jpg

'I've always wondered what the story was behind these guys. Plus it would be interesting to see if we could reign in our desire to automatically make them a BA successor based on their chapter badge.'

 

Damned Company of Lord Caustos, The

'The Damned Company of Lord Caustos is such a force, which, having been declared Traitor by an Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus, based on somewhat flimsy and circumstantial evidence, only later turned to the service of Chaos in order to survive in a galaxy ultimately hostile to them. Lord Caustos and his followers now sell their services to any force that will provide them with the equipment they need to continue their very existence.'

'...the Damned company of Lord Caustos gives us an intrigueing figurehead to explore.'

 

Doom Warriors

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v696/Brother-Librarian/Damage%20Inc%20stuff/DoomWarriorsthumb.jpg

'...Heraldry hints at a "blitzkrieg" style of warfare possibly.'

'...the opposite it would seem of the Castellan feel and a great looking army IMO.'

 

Skull Bearers

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b246/Jabeno/Games%20Workshop/Marines/12.jpg

'...these guys to me seem quite the opposite of the "Knightly" Castellans and would have alot of work to do because as far as I know nothing or at least very little has ever been mentioned about them. Plus Yellow Power Armour is ace.'

'The Imperial Castellans ended goody-good fellows, so next chapter might end something bit more darker. Nothing like renegade or hunted by inquisition stuff, just bit of the darker shade of gray where castellens were lighter shade of grey.'

'I think they could be interesting as long as people avoid it becomming a watery Mortifactors due to the skull reference'

 

Storm Giants

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v653/nfjbs/77.jpg

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/4674/esstormgiants3pz.jpg

'One of two officially mentioned (If only potential) successors of the Salamanders. Yes, yes, I know, any Chapter could use Salamander geneseed after the 2nd founding, but the Storm Giants are one of the only two I know officially mentioned as even being potentially of Vulkan's line. That makes them pretty unique, I think. Second, the name. "Storm Giants", doesn't that evoke a feeling of awe, doesn't it imply "Space Marine" right off the bat? Their color scheme, I've always thought, was very nice--simple, but effective. They're also relatively new (Founded M41), so this allows us to fluff them up without really digging too deeply into official canon. No wedging them into the defense of the Emperor's Palace, or explaining how they were involved in the Age of Apostasy and Badab War. It also allows a bit of a new pace, instead of designing an elaborate history inked into the history of the Imperium, we're dealing with Marines relatively new who have to make a name for themselves in the midst of more famous Chapters that came before them. We also know they at least participated in one official war, that of the Third War for Armageddon, in which the Storm Giants sent 5 Companies.'

 

Storm Warriors

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v650/Cpt_Tiberius/79.jpg

'Probably a codex chapter judging by the pauldron trim. I thought a more "normal" chapter might be interesting this time around. Plus I think they have a cool name and a no-nonsense heraldry.'

 

War Bearers

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v696/Brother-Librarian/Damage%20Inc%20stuff/WarBearersthumb.jpg

'Cool name and cool chapter badge and not much else, so plenty of room to play.'

 

 

Hopefully this collates the strongest ideas we've had thus far, and can be used to channel discussion effectively.

Edited July 9, 2006 by Commissar Molotov

[Ferrata]

What you need to ask yourself for each Chapter is how much do we know and how does this restrict our creativity?

 

For those chapters who have sent forces to Armageddon, this limits where they can be based and what they are doing around that time. It also restricts our choice of behaviour as anything too extreme would have been noted in the Armageddon articles.

 

With the Black Guard having a set gene-seed and founding, it does limit how far we can go with them, but it also settles some issues which can be awkward to discuss. I would suggest going for a complete blank canavas bar name and colour scheme.

 

I would personally suggest either the Doom Warriors, Skull Bearers, Storm Warriors or War Bearers

 

The Chapters suggested last time where:

Avenging Sons - What are they avenging?

Eagle Warriors - Meso-Americans in Space?

Imperial Castellans

Knights of Gryphonne - AM link?

Marauders - White Scars successors, Tartans over Mongols?

Masters of Proteus - What is Proteus? World, System, Person, Item?

Red Hunters - Got a large amount of interest due to their =][= symbol on their should pad.

Skull Bearers - Skulls carry importance to the chapter? Head-Hunters?

Warmongers - A chapter that seeks war?

[Brother Tyler]

The one Chapter above that I would like to develop one day is the Angels of Fire. That cleansed fire blade is sooooo intriguing, and it would be nice to see them not be a Blood Angels Successor. But that's just me.

 

Don't take this as me giving guidance, but I think it would be really cool for renegades to be developed. They are rightfully covered in this forum, too, even though you very rarely see anyone developing a DIY traitor Chapter or force. It would also be a challenge from an intellectual standpoint - creating a DIY force that used to be loyalist (lots of good background to develop), but which later turned to Chaos.

 

But if you just have to keep on the loyalists, I'd suggest going with a Chapter that is a blank canvas. No Second Foundings or suggestions from GW for gene-seed.

 

I guess I'd put forth the Skull Bearers or War Bearers as my two preferences. It would be interesting to see if we could make a Chapter interesting without having to make it non-Codex (i.e., keeping it Codex or with only a notable divergence). And it would be interesting if we could do all of that without making the obvious name or Chapter badge being a Big Thing. But that's just me. I'm kind of a vanilla guy, y'know.

[Commissar Molotov]

Edit: This post is with reference to Ferrata's post, not Tyler's.

 

The alternative argument, though, is that far from restricting us, it can provide us with a base from which to progress - by already having some decisions made for us, it prevents some arguments and gives us a (vague) idea of where we're going. Considering that the Blood Angels (based in the Ultima Segmentum) and the Relictors (based in the Segmentum Obscuras) both participated at Armageddon (in the Segmentum Solar), it's not necessarily as restrictive as you might think. With regards to the Armageddon conflict, the Angels Porphyr and the Storm Giants were only mentioned in passing, so there's nothing definitive either way. Just because GW didn't say anything about their 'behaviour', it doesn't mean we can't.

 

Assume a chapter fought at Armageddon. They could have been there because they're fleet-based, therefore meaning we can do pretty much what we want with them. They could have been there, like the Mortifactors or the Relictors, because they'd been lead there by various portents or prophecies - therefore taking them quite far from their homeworld or their usual stomping grounds.

 

That doesn't mean that I'm advocating using either the Storm Giants or the Angels Porphyr, but rather I'm saying that they shouldn't immediately be cast out of consideration. We have to be open-minded.

 

Ferrata is, of course, absolutely correct that we should attempt to find out whatever we can about the various chapters up for consideration - if there's something we need to consider or incorporate, or something that means we'll need to take a chapter out of the running, it's better to find out now, rather than later. :P

Edited July 9, 2006 by Commissar Molotov

[st.germaine]

Without adding to the list, my preferences for the chapter to be used for this project are as follows:

 

Knights of Gryphonne - 1) there aren't enough orange marines; 2) I'd like to see if the AM link can be developed instead of the chivalry tack; 3) this is the chapter that my youngest daughter started to paint at one time.

 

Black Wings - of the proposed chapters easily the slickest chapter symbol and the most vibrant color scheme. combine that with an intrigueing name.

 

Angels of Fire - I love the fire iconography but am not too keen on red armor.

 

great symbols (& names) but not much else - Angels Porphyr, Doom Warriors

[Keyoz Devastrius]

Ferrata:

With the Black Guard having a set gene-seed and founding, it does limit how far we can go with them, but it also settles some issues which can be awkward to discuss. I would suggest going for a complete blank canavas bar name and colour scheme.

 

I think that known founding date and gene-seed are not a real problem- look at SCC Brazen Claws -very cool and creative and he was more restricted then us- they already had scheme and badge.

 

But if we decide we really can't go with Black Guard, then I would say Skull Bearers. I hope we can be creative and won

[Cpt_Tiberius]

Actually I had an idea for the Skull Bearers that's been bumping around in my noggin for a bit. I was trying to find a reason someone would "bear a skull". My idea was that they revere their fallen brothers by displaying their skulls and carrying them into battle as "holy relics". Whenever a marine would fall, his squad mates would retrieve his skull which would be ritually cleansed and then inscribed with tales of his deeds as well as purity seals and parchment bits. It is sort of a slightly debased ancestor/hero worship type thing.

 

I liked my idea as they are not technically headhunters like the Silver Skulls, and are not obsessed with death/cannabalism like the Mortifactors. There practices have nothing to do with consuming of flesh, but are rather like when the Catholic Church would make relics out of the bones of saints.

 

 

...Just an idea I had. -_-

[Commissar Molotov]

Though in a sense that's very similar to the Mortifactors, who also take the fallen skulls of their brethren and display them in the Basilica Mortis. In fact, the Chaplain in Warriors of Ultramar even tries to reassure Uriel and the other Ultramarines that if they die, the Mortifactors will reserve them a place of honour.

[Ferrata]

I would now suggest removing the Black Guard from the list (mainly because I'm intrested in doing them at a later stage, I can be selfish at times -_- )

 

I think the Doom Warriors and Skull Bearers have some good potential, but have the probability of falling into the Mortificator-trap.

 

I'm intrested in Angels Porphyr, mainly because I have no idea what Porphyr is, any clues?

[Heru]

There is two candiates for what Porphyr means

 

 

1. Porphyr

[Commissar Molotov]

This link intimates that 'porphyry' is very much connected to the Imperial Roman Families.

 

Edit:

 

BROTHER DAMOS

OF THE ANGELS PORPHYR

 

Brother Damos commanded the 9th Company of the Angels Porphyr, a stalwart veteran of three centuries of battle. His Devastator squads were the very model of efficient fire support and wherever his men fought, the armoured might of the enemy would be wary. It was during the Scouring of Hume as he led his men in the defence of Hill 236 that a surprise attack on the Space Marines' position by rebel Marauder bombers caught him in the open as he moved between his linked bunkers. By all rights the bombardment should have killed Damos, but when the attack was over, his brother Space Marines found that the bloody shreds of his body still drew breath. He demanded the chance to fight on. And thus his remains were placed in stasis and transported back to the Chapter`s fortress monastery where he was implanted within the armoured sarcophagus of a Dreadnought. For three thousand years he has remained entombed within his armoured body and, as he did in life, Damos provides a solid anchor of fire support for his brothers, guiding the deployment and firing of the Chapters Devastators.

Edited July 9, 2006 by Commissar Molotov

[Severus6]

I am casting my vote for War Bearers,...camo green and crossed battle axes,...it just doesnt get any better than that. That and there is so little known you can take it anywhere. The Skullbearers are intrigueing, but as has already been said, there is no need for another Mortifactors Light. Same thing for the Angels Porphyr,...every time I think of these guys I see BA offshoot.

 

Severus6

[Sigismund Himself]

Has anything ever been done on the Storm Lords? They look like a good candidate for the fleshing out if nothings been done on them. If something has, my vote is for the Storm Giants. There aren't that many Salamander successors out there. The Black Guard sound intriguing but I think the Storm Giants have it

cheers

[Grimdarkness]

Black Wings - of the proposed chapters easily the slickest chapter symbol and the most vibrant colour scheme. combine that with an intriguing name.

 

I was looking in the Insignium Astarte's and the HTPSM books for ideas and the pic of the black wing marine in the ING Ast shows a D.A green chest plate and right gauntlet shoulder pad. Explain the chapters heraldry alone could be fun so I'll throw my vote behind the black wings.

[Cpt_Tiberius]

Has anything ever been done on the Storm Lords?

The only thing I've ever heard about them is that they are a White Scars sucessor. Also most of the minis I've seen have been devestators (or at least heavy weapons marines) and have also seen alot of rhinos. I thought it would be cool to set them up as an mechanized infantry army, ever unit in a transport type idea.

 

They look like a good candidate for the fleshing out if nothings been done on them. If something has, my vote is for the Storm Giants. There aren't that many Salamander successors out there. The Black Guard sound intriguing but I think the Storm Giants have it

 

As I said before I'd rule them out. They are someone else's DIY and I don't think we should really step on their toes. (same would apply to the Sons of Orar).

[AWOL]

When I heard the name "Doom Warriors" I didn't initially think of the word doom in the "You're doomed" sense, but rather the older meaning of the word used prominently by authors like Tolkien, where the chapter could carry a heavy doom, as in destiny. Perhaps a Librarian or some such visionary has forseen a great role for them to play in the coming events of the galaxy, and they fight now to prepare for that day. Maybe their destiny is to win a great battle, or maybe it's that they're going to die.

 

Anyway, they're the only chapter thrown out thus far that has gotten my gears turning over-much.

[Race Bannon]

War Bearers = :angry:

[Darrell]

As I said before I'd rule them out. They are someone else's DIY and I don't think we should really step on their toes.

 

All you mentioned before was something about a conversion on a Dreadnought. Could you please quote me a line from somewhere that says "Jim Butler's DIY, the Storm Giants, yadda yadda blah blah"? I'd really like to know for sure if these guys are a DIY, because I have searched EVERYWHERE for anything remotely resembling that sentence and nowhere on the Internet does it have it. Until I can find out for sure, I still stand by these guys for a fluffing out. I'd owe you a lot if you could show me fore sure, Tiberius, so maybe I can look on contacting Jim Butler and getting some information from him about these guys, but I want to make 100% sure they're his before I try doing that. I hope you understand.

 

War Bearers would also be good. Pretty good color scheme, definitely not the "knightly" type, and there is an odd resemblance to the Blood Axe klan symbol. And their armor is green. Perhaps Orks have infiltrated the Space Marines?! :angry: Plus, I can't even think of hearing these guys in passing; the GW site was the first time I'd heard of them at all. Not to mention, seriously, who doesn't like axes?

[Keyoz Devastrius]

Severus6 :

Same thing for the Angels Porphyr,...every time I think of these guys I see BA offshoot.

The thing what makes you think so is Porphyria-an inherited blood illness. It has been suggested as an explanation for the origin of vampire legends, so I think they are BA successors. My biochemical knowledge has proved useful for the first time :)

 

Ferrata:

I would now suggest removing the Black Guard from the list (mainly because I'm intrested in doing them at a later stage, I can be selfish at times blush.gif )

 

I will gladly offer my help with any Black Guard project :)

Edited July 10, 2006 by Keyoz Devastrius

[Hrvat]

I am also interested to provide help in this project.

 

My vote goes to War Bearers because their officers formed the core of my 26th founding chapter staff but I would have nothing against Doom Warriors because they have a very cool colour scheme.

Edited July 10, 2006 by Hrvat

[Zhivago]

Actually I had an idea for the Skull Bearers that's been bumping around in my noggin for a bit. I was trying to find a reason someone would "bear a skull". My idea was that they revere their fallen brothers by displaying their skulls and carrying them into battle as "holy relics". Whenever a marine would fall, his squad mates would retrieve his skull which would be ritually cleansed and then inscribed with tales of his deeds as well as purity seals and parchment bits. It is sort of a slightly debased ancestor/hero worship type thing.

 

As noted that reminds of mortificators..

 

What came in my mind was that they take the skulls of their enemy. And carry them on top of their banners and such. Skull is inter-galatic sigh of 'here be death, be afraid'. And thus gruesome trophies might be seen as usefull for a shock force that marine chapter is. This would probably seen as barbaric by most of the imperium, but then again, space wolves are barbaric too.

 

I think that eating the foes should be kept away from theese guys, even if it sounds possibility, after all, if you take the skull, you have the brains easily edible. :)

 

When it comes to angels of fire, they too have potential. But I think that there is risk that they will inherit some salamanderish traits (not Traits) due the name and iconography.

[Archangelus]

My vote goes to:

 

1st: Skull Bearers

2nd: War Bearers

 

The Skull Bearers can be developped to anything we want. Some suggestions:

 

Pious: Skull iconography throughout the Imperium and the Imperial Creed

 

Ferral: Head Hunters

 

Relic Keepers: Specific Skull (Skull of a Primarch or more likely the skull of their first Chapter Master) This could be viewed as part of piety or as an Museum curator thing. Maybe they are collectors with close ties to AM (Biologis branch) keeping a record of every single enemy species type and their respective skulls.

 

Maybe the "Skull" they are "bearing" is not an actual skull, but something more abstract (don't know what yet) or maybe a specific item/fortress/weapon/artifact/relic

 

 

As for the War Bearers:

 

Colour scheme suggests use of setalth and camouflage (not necessarily but...).

They probably like axes.

They could also be a experts in forest/jungle fighting (axes used to clear up the trees :), but I don't think so)

They bring war (spear head attacks/crusades) or do they sustain it, mopping up behind the first wave?

Maybe they work closely with the IG (similar colour scheme as well).

[Cpt_Tiberius]

Could you please quote me a line from somewhere that says "Jim Butler's DIY, the Storm Giants, yadda yadda blah blah"?

 

Well I've almost never heard them ever refer to any chapter as _____'s DIY (the closest they have come is when Pete Haines described his creation of the harbingers, and also with the Helion Legion that popped up in WD when the new 'dex came out.)

 

However in Codex Armageddon the line under the image of them says "Jim Butler's Storm Giants with Vindicator". It specifically uses the possesive ('s) which no other image in the book does.

 

As for the dreadnought article (WD-256 "Heavy Duty: Modeling Options with the new Plastic Dreadnought kit") The text under the SG image reads:

 

Jim: I'd just put together a Land Raider Crusader for my Storm Giants and, as I equipped it with twin-linked assualt cannons, I was left with a couple of heavy bolters.

 

I've always read these to quotes as the SG being his army. I could be wrong, but there is definitely a strong indication in favor of, at the very least.

[Ferrata]

Enough off if the Storm Giants belong to someone or not. Tiberius, you can happily be against them. Darrell, you can be happily for them. If we don't do the Storm Giants, then it looks like Darrell has found an army to collect and make an IA for <_<

 

That extract about the Dreadnought has turned me against the Angels Porphyr, with the references to Dreadnoughts and Devastators I think many people would want to take them down that route, I think we need a little more freedom.