Old, but not experienced ... polite-rant

[Dunedon]

Anyone know of a painting contest, or at least a category, dedicated to those of us that no longer qualify for youngbloods ... but are just picking up a paintbrush seriously for the first time?

 

I'd love to compete, but frankly looking at some of the entries in most contests I get overwhelmed ... even the worst efforts I've seen make mine look like ... welll ... :rolleyes:

 

So ... if/when a new contest is announced, how about a category for those of us that are just learning how to paint :unsure:

 

- Dunedon

[-Q-]

Some people just want to win... so I can't imagine how the entrant's eligibility would be confirmed.

 

Many local GWs and Hobby Shops hold painting contests from time time. They're a good place to show off your best stuff and have a running since your competing locally rather than globally like one is here or even in the Golden Demons.

[Dunedon]

Some people just want to win... so I can't imagine how the entrant's eligibility would be confirmed.

 

Many local GWs and Hobby Shops hold painting contests from time time. They're a good place to show off your best stuff and have a running since your competing locally rather than globally like one is here or even in the Golden Demons.

 

I can certainly understand that ... I guess I'd just like to see my stuff in comparison to someone that has been painting about as long as I have, instead of against some of the awesome stuff I've seen here :rolleyes:

 

- Dunedon

[Freakiq]

How do you decide who are "sucky" enough to enter and would Obliterator, Boltman and all other great painters be banned? :rolleyes:

 

Am I too good to enter, where do you draw the line? No golden demon winners?

 

Also i've been painting for three years, but I only paint about one model a month due to studies while someone else have been painting for three years but paints 10 models a week.

[ursidae]

if/when a new contest is announced, how about a category for those of us that are just learning how to paint

 

I can sympathize with you, but now that you are posting on the B&C, you'll be painting master-class in no time ;) show us what you're working on and we'll be more than happy to give you some hints and tips on how to become an 'eavy metal class painter. cheers and...

 

POST PICS! B)

[Dunedon]

How do you decide who are "sucky" enough to enter and would Obliterator, Boltman and all other great painters be banned? B)

 

Am I too good to enter, where do you draw the line? No golden demon winners?

 

Example Criteria:

 

#1) Do you think your stuff is good enough to compete with the pro's? (YES, then you can't enter)

 

#2) Have you placed in the top 3 of a mini painting contest online, hobby store, golden daemon? (YES, then you can't enter)

 

#3) Are you being honest in answering the above questions? (NO, the you shouldn't enter)

 

Prizes: The ability to compare your work to others of your "caliber" and maybe have a victor that propels you into the elite ranks of the "professional" painters.

 

- Dunedon

[Obliterator]

How do you decide who are "sucky" enough to enter and would Obliterator, Boltman and all other great painters be banned? ;)

I now officially love you B) ...

[Legacy40k]

It simply doesnt work.

 

That would be like telling an olympic gold medalist that they are no longer allowed to compete in their sport because they are too good.

 

-Legacy40k

[plaguewielder]

I agree,

 

If you feel that you are overwhelmed by lots of talented painters, then maybe you should use that as a starting point for ideas on how you can improve rather than taking all that talent away.

How can you improve on your painting if everyone around you paints at exactly the same level?

 

 

One of the most important things i have learned recently, now that i enter the Demons every year, is that even tho i dont win i walk away with the knowledge of what i can improve on and what kind of effort i have to put into the hobby and art that i love most in life to succeed.

 

The best thing you can do here is post pics, ask for help, and everyone that makes up this community will be happy to help and support you. Keep in mind that these forums are not at all like CMON for example. No one is here to roast your hard-worked mini's but rather to form a support group to help you get better at what you love todo (incase you have ever had bad experiences on those other sites)

[Starks333]

i think what he means is an "amatuer" catagory

 

you dont have proffessional athletes competing at amateur events(unless its a fundraiser) and its not saying you cant compete, you just dont qualify for this catagory

 

stipulations could be more along the lines of, how many years have you painted? amateur should be classified as maybe 3 or fewer years??

 

 

i say its possible, but solely depends on people honestly admitting their years of experience

 

Starks

[T14]

If anyone finds a "painting contest for chumps" sign me up double quick.

 

Cheers

-t14

[mario]

I don't understand this. You want to give medals to some of a few people who are still learning to paint good? Doesn't the process of getting better and faster have it's own appeal? If your really need an official medal that shows you are the best of the newbies then try to start that painting competition at your local store. People don't watch sports to see some newbies play (at least not in the NFLand similar leagues). Something like that can only work at a small scale.

 

If I remember correctly then over at kaple.dk (look in the forum) there was a competition for people who have never won a Golden Daemon or similar competition. The whole contest was online. You could ask there if there will be something like that again.

 

You are free to participate in any contest that allows in by the rules. If you win depends on your work. So when you say that even the worst are better than yours you need improve your painting. That takes time.

 

To tell you the truth I think your idea of a newbie painting comeptition sounds pathetic. Your painting won't improve or be good just because you have a medal or some trophy.

 

Some real advice: If you want to win, create something that is worth the trophy. It will take time to get better and you still won't win. But you will paint better and faster. And that is worth more than any forgeworld-made and ten minutes before the competition started drybrushed resin daemon statue (or whatever the competition is giving away).

 

PS: Ok, Privateer Press and a few others are even givin prize-money for the winners but most competitions give you just some trophy. The money is at least somehow useful.

[Freakiq]

How do you decide who are "sucky" enough to enter and would Obliterator, Boltman and all other great painters be banned? :huh:

I now officially love you :wub: ...

 

:ph34r:

[Jokersminis]

Some real advice: If you want to win, create something that is worth the trophy. It will take time to get better and you still won't win. But you will paint better and faster. And that is worth more than any forgeworld-made and ten minutes before the competition started drybrushed resin daemon statue (or whatever the competition is giving away).

 

PS: Ok, Privateer Press and a few others are even givin prize-money for the winners but most competitions give you just some trophy. The money is at least somehow useful.

 

INHO, as not a Multiple Slayer winner like Tom Schadle or Scott Bowser, as a lowly 1-Time Bronze Demon winner, it's not about the, as you so graphicly described, "drybrushed resin daemon statue".

 

For me, it's about competing against an elite field of the best Miniature Artists in the US, or in the case of Toronto this year, the world. It's about proving that painting plastic or pewter toy soldiers can be elevated to an art form- ableit an obscure one. It's about pushing yourself to the next level, trying something new, taking a ridiculous idea and making it work. ie- Boltman. Vincent Hudon had been in the hobby less than a year when he decided to sit down and teach himself NMM, and spent 400+ hours on Magmatrax, blowing away the competition and walking away with a Slayer Sword.

 

It's about Drive, Desire, and Plastic Soldiers.

 

As for a lower level competition, the logistics would be hard to manage- ie who was qualified and who wasn't.

[Starks333]

I don't understand this. You want to give medals to some of a few people who are still learning to paint good? Doesn't the process of getting better and faster have it's own appeal? If your really need an official medal that shows you are the best of the newbies then try to start that painting competition at your local store. People don't watch sports to see some newbies play (at least not in the NFLand similar leagues). Something like that can only work at a small scale.

 

 

***ok since you keep referring to sports heres an equal comparison(since no one here seems to be able to give an accurate one)

 

at ALL levels of sports there are awards(team and league) for best player, most improved etc so why is it pathetic for someone to want a medium level for painting?

 

they have junior(youngblood) semi pro(what he wants essentially because hes not young and hes not experienced) and pro(golden daemons etc)

 

why is it unreasonable to want to win WHILE improving? or maybe he IS trying hard but knows he just wont be able to ever paint that good? (some people just cant paint amazingly...)

 

i dont see a problem with this at all

 

 

Starks

[ixupi]

Horrible idea, don't mean to rag on you but in my opinion it is.

 

It's sort of just promoting lack of progress and/or unfair competition.

 

If you don't think you are good enough to win an award, try harder. If you can't afford to do this, then competitions aren't for you. Everyone starts out at square one and earns their skill, plain and simple. Once you've stepped up out of the young bloods rank, you're in the battlefield and all is fair in love and war as they say. Just try harder man, I know it's repetative but it's the truth.

[Starks333]

Horrible idea, don't mean to rag on you but in my opinion it is.

 

It's sort of just promoting lack of progress and/or unfair competition.

 

If you don't think you are good enough to win an award, try harder. If you can't afford to do this, then competitions aren't for you. Everyone starts out at square one and earns their skill, plain and simple. Once you've stepped up out of the young bloods rank, you're in the battlefield and all is fair in love and war as they say. Just try harder man, I know it's repetative but it's the truth.

 

***i find it funny how the three people who completely hate the idea are actually able to paint quite well(or mario who has the knowledge to, havent seen his stuff :D)

 

its great to aim for the top, but sometimes when you dont see success along the way you lose motivation, and sometimes success comes in the form of winning...

 

so i dont see a problem for an amateur painting comp, for guys who are out of the youngblood level but are essentially youngbloods when it comes to painting

 

Starks

[ixupi]

***i find it funny how the three people who completely hate the idea are actually able to paint quite well(or mario who has the knowledge to, havent seen his stuff :P)

 

its great to aim for the top, but sometimes when you dont see success along the way you lose motivation, and sometimes success comes in the form of winning...

 

so i dont see a problem for an amateur painting comp, for guys who are out of the youngblood level but are essentially youngbloods when it comes to painting

 

Starks

 

:D I'm sure 'those three' will take that as a compliment.

 

Anyway, the idea itself isn't bad. Just wouldn't ever work. It's like a high school football tournament, you've got the people who can eventually make it to the pros and then everyone else, same amount of experience in most cases so just pick it up quicker/have more natural talent. Boltman is a perfect example, he went from zero to hero around here(and I mean the best by that, if you're reading this boltman. :ph34r: ).

 

To get back to my point, there is still no way to get an 'even' playing ground. I'd consider myself an amateur, seeing as how I have alittle over 6 months experience. But I've seen people painting for less than that do better and people who've painted for three years do worse.

 

I just have a feeling despite it all, it just wouldn't be fair for those true 'strugglers.'

[Tiberious]

I don't think the idea would work either. I am not one a great painter and would fall into the amateur league, but I think it would be too hard to police and decide who can enter. For example, me and a bunch of my friends got into this hobby at the same time, almost three years ago. One of our friends has been in it for almost 12. I am the best painter out of the group, but my stuff would not even make the first cut at a golden demon (prob. would get laughed right off of the table lol). That is the goal I am striving for and some day I may find myself there, but I feel if there was a armature class I would not even enter it because that is not the goal I wish to achieve.

[Legacy40k]

The simple issue is.. how do you police it. You could make Catagories for non Golden Deamon winners.. Infact, i think at one point, slayer sword winners were only allowed to enter the open catagory the following year.. But outside of that, it would be nearly impossibly to police it.

 

While I certainly don't object to the idea, infact, I wish North America had the Catagory where everybody had to paint the same unconverted model... However, It is very impraticle and I just don't see it working. You wouldnt be able to change the catagories we have now, just add in an "amature" Catagory that would be like young bloods for people older.

 

-Legacy40k

[frontierpediatry]

I agree,

 

If you feel that you are overwhelmed by lots of talented painters, then maybe you should use that as a starting point for ideas on how you can improve rather than taking all that talent away.

How can you improve on your painting if everyone around you paints at exactly the same level?

 

 

One of the most important things i have learned recently, now that i enter the Demons every year, is that even tho i dont win i walk away with the knowledge of what i can improve on and what kind of effort i have to put into the hobby and art that i love most in life to succeed.

 

The best thing you can do here is post pics, ask for help, and everyone that makes up this community will be happy to help and support you. Keep in mind that these forums are not at all like CMON for example. No one is here to roast your hard-worked mini's but rather to form a support group to help you get better at what you love todo (incase you have ever had bad experiences on those other sites)

 

This wouldn't really help much... in the 500 point painting contest the B&C held a while back me and Boltman were two of the finalists... and I had only been painting about 6 months and they were Boltman's very first models.

 

Ultimately I agree with mario, if you want to win a competition, become a better painter.

[Hemal]

I would say that, as Ayn Rand would say, this smacks of celebrating mediocraty, almsot like saying it's unfair that people who paint well win all the competitions. Ok, so you're new to the hobby, great. You will find many great and not-so-great painters on these forums, the great ones (Boltman, Commander Y etc) with multiple Golden Daemons, the not so great ones (myself included, but just you wait :lol: ) and everyone else will be more than happy to offer hints, advice and suggestions to improve your technique.

 

However, if you ask me whether there should be any categories for "newbie and old" painters, then I say no, I'd have to go against the whole idea of a meritocracy which I firmly believe in to do this. I sympathise, I'll never win a GD myself unless my standard improves dramatically (and I'm actually a pretty reasonable painter, just a Salieri to the elite "Mozarts" out there...), but I still would rather view the genius of talent and let them grab the limelight, whilst grumbling in the shadows, than exclude them through some articially constructed rules.

 

As stated,without say a Professional or Elite painters federation or union, it's very difficult to say who counts as an "amateur" or "professional" in the same way as you have in sports

[-Q-]

We face these two very distinct viewpoints whenever any conversation involving painting competition comes up. In the context of our time on these forums and the Bolter and Chainsword contests here are the two most important points to this thread...

 

1) It is impossible to enforce any sort of amateur or even youngblood class here.

 

2) These contests are not about winning. They are about coming together as Brothers and showing off our unique interpretations of a theme.

 

I hope everyone takes the time to make an entry, paint an entry, submit an entry. There is nothing cooler in this hobby than checking out what other people have done with their Space Marines. ...that's why most of us are here at the PC&A all the time! The contest is a unique opportunity to bring common theme which greatly demonstrates the unique eye of every entrant. st.germaine created one of my favorite among the BnC mini-me's. He states in his first comment to his post that he's not half the painter of the other guys but here's his... That's not only brave... that's exactly the spirit we should *all* have around here.

 

Regarding some of these comments, I personally understand that many people here don't *want* to put in the work to become an expert painter. This is a calming fun hobby. Don't feel you have to "raise your game" to post in PC&A or enter a contest. Please post and share your efforts even if you aren't going to try to get better at highlighting or even care. :lol:

[zain]

well boltmans a great example he wasn't world class but as he practiced he became amazing.

If you practace enough you'll get better and better. The way I practace is I have a friend who struggles with painting so ever so often I offer to paint one for him.

Try your best and enter and remember there's always next year

heck I'm 15 and entering loads of catogorys

[frontierpediatry]

well boltmans a great example he wasn't world class but as he practiced he became amazing.

If you practace enough you'll get better and better. The way I practace is I have a friend who struggles with painting so ever so often I offer to paint one for him.

Try your best and enter and remember there's always next year

heck I'm 15 and entering loads of catogorys

 

What? Boltman's a terrible example, Magmatrax was like his 15th model, and like I said, he won a B&C painting competiton with what were I believe his very first models. He was amazing right off the bat.