The Black Lizards

[kha'delath]

Ok, the black lizards are a second founding of the salamanders chaptor.

 

 

The salamander were always deeply piousin the ways of war.

The first TRait of the black lizards is peculiar, but deeply hounarable.

 

The blacks lizaards will take any survivors and entre them into the red-ring, a massive colleseum wheer the survivors are forced to fight in gladitorial combat with all manner of beasties, as well as themselves.

 

when the last three men stand, they are then split up and a mighty monster known as the black lizard is unleashed among them.

 

the fortunate indivdual survivor(if there is one, ties are not taken lightly) will then be offered a chanc to join the space marines (if the war was agaist a roguie planet, NOT vs tainted worlds), suffer arco-flagellation or die by thier own hand.

 

 

 

Once, there was a man which took on all adversaries in the red ring, he stood back and laughed at the carnage. When the black lizard was released he killed it in one stroke, a humiliating act fotr the black lizards.

 

 

Thumzil, chaif of the black lizard jumped into the ring to confront him and sliced his face into a grid, before bolting jhim with a powerfist.

 

It was in the following days when they saqw the man who was dead again in the lords quartes and Thumzil was screming on his armour greaves did they knew who they were facing, the dread lord of slannesh Lucius.

 

The black lizards will forever fight to regain the soul of thier fallen leader

 

 

:)

[Brother Scythe]

First things first, make the Black Lizards something other than a Salamander Second Founding. We know all the Second Founding(Except for a handful of ultramarines ones)and the Salamanders were much to beaten up after the Drop Site Massacare to even form another chapter. As such I would make them 3rd-26th.

 

Now onto the actual fluff. I myself do not like the idea that prisoners of war are taken into the chapter should they win the "Red-Ring Challenge"(R-RC). Don't get me wrong the R-RC is a cool idea and sets up some interesting fluff but IMO this is to far gone.

 

A good idea would be that Neophytes fight beasts in the R-RC in order to gain membership into the chapter thus keeping roughly with your idea. but I would avoid having them kill each other outright. Another thought(And perhaps could both be used with the other one I mentioned)is to have Brothers who wish to attian veteran status fight a legendary Black Lizard in the R-RC and should the kill it they make themselves a name in the veteran company of your chapter.

 

Now also keeping with your idea is that Prisoners are brought back to their homeworld(Although that is quite risky and not very likely IMO)and fight to the death for entertainment of the BL and their homeworld people. As such it is a sport and even the winners are eventually killed as they just keep fighting until they suffer death from a new opponent(think Gladiator)

 

From here this is where the Lucius Story could come from. He was captured and brought here and became a great champion that no one could best until eventually the Chapter Master of the BL decided to end his reign in the R-RC and challenged him. He was able to best Lucius(By either better skill or perhaps the dyabolical chaos lord let him win)and thus became Lucius and now this shame and burden is something that haunts the chapter. Only thing here is how would he escape planet? If he just killed my Chapter Master I would either hunt him down and imprison him for the Inquistion(Which you can't do as fluffwise Lucius is still running free)or destory their homeworld in order to rid themselves of the chaos taint. Also another thought Lucius is saturated in the scent and evil of chaos how would he be able to disguse himself enough to be captured? These are the things you need to work on to make it better grounded fluffwise.

 

Well thats what I have to say. Rework it a little and think some of the ideas through more, and also a little spell check might not hurt. I have no problem with bad spellers but in some places it got annoying and hardish to read.

[kha'delath]

wow!

 

Thanks for that quick reply!

 

Man your good!

 

Ok the onty things i was bothered about keeping the same was :

 

some mention of the red ring as my chapter banner displays it!

lucios being hunted somehow!

And the mention of a black lizard

 

thank yu again as your fluff will be my army background with maybe a little revising (say, the escape of lucios)

 

 

Could you regulary (only for a week or two) check this post to work with me on this chapter?

It wold be greatly appreciated!

 

 

The things that need sortin!

Lucious's escape,

 

the induction into the chapter

 

Deeper backgroungd into combat doctrine

 

maybe a unique way of worshiiping the mperor?

 

 

 

:D ;) ;)

and, where, if not the salamanders, did they come from

 

Im soory i stole this template from the post 'white crusaders' hehe

 

 

++Chapter Name++: Black lizards

 

++Chapter Founding++: Dunno?

 

++Chapter Master++: Blank until Thurmzil's soul is restored

 

++Chapter symbol++: A black lizard body on a red circle

 

++Chapter geneseed++: Salamanders

 

++Chapter heraldry++: Scaly green main armour with red and black details, like red scorpians, their name shows only in thier symbol

 

++Chapter Battlecry++: "Your soul is the emperors, fight to claim it yourself!!!!" .

[Big Woop]

Well, it's a bit difficult to comment on as it includes basically one trait, but to get a full perspective on them you'd need to know more. I.e what other traits do they have, whats the story behind them etc.

 

I'm a little confused as to that last part of the text, you mean their leader fell to chaos?

[Ferrata]

++Chapter Founding++: Dunno?

Depends how old you want the chapter to be, the older the more time you have to fill in. For a Salamanders successor, your good any founding after the 2nd, so 3rd is the earliest you can go for. Avoid the 13th and 21st.

 

Brother Scythe has offered some sage advice. While the idea of a pit of death (RRC), it seems flawed for a Space Marine chapter. Going a long with Brother Scythe's advice, you could have squads of recruits placed in the arena to fight the Black Lizard, and only by working together can they defeat it. What does this do for your chapter? Well, it increases the bonds between the younger recruits, and even the older marines. It stops your recruits from having to fight till the death, and it makes a damn cool initiation test. The Veterans could work, but I can't see the chapter keep placing their veterans in dangerous positions outside of battle.

 

Onto the taking Prisoners, I think this is a very un-marine thing to do, especially when traitors/heretics are involved. Marines are a mobile surgical strike force, they do not want to be weighed down by Prisoners. I would prefer this to be dropped from the chapter as it really detracts from them. So I would drop the taking Prisoners and having Prisoners fight to the death to seek redemption. This does put the Lucious story into a little bit of hot water...

 

Maybe they were on the battlefield (which seems more likely then sitting at home for Marines) and an unknown Chaos champion was slaughtering his way through Imperial Guardsmen, IG Captains and Commissars, and even Marines. Up steps the CM and bang, down goes the Champion. The Champion is old Lucious and you have your story.

[st.germaine]

There's not a problem with your chapter being a Salamanders successor. They just can't be from the 2nd Founding. The 2nd Founding was used to break of the loyalist Space Marine Legions after the War of the Horus Heresy was over. The Salamanders had suffered such great casualties at the Istvaan Massacre that they were small enough not to need splitting up. While there are not a lot of chapters that GW has stated is a Salamanders successor, it is pretty well accepted that their geneseed was used in many if not all of the following foundings.

[Brother Scythe]

Well I am more than willing to watch this thread and offer my thoughts whenever I am on(which is alot more often these days... :D )

 

Ok now onto some of the problems.

 

First off have them sallies geneseed just do not make them 2nd foundind. there are 24(or at least 22)other founding to pick. If you want a very old chapter then a 3rd founding is ideal. My own chapter is young and as such they are a 26th(The newest)founding.

 

I think keeping the Red Ring is a good idea, as I siad Neophytes deuling beasts is good and very Space marine like, aswell Veterans fighting Black Lizards(Some else you want to keep)to gain their status is also a good thought I feel. It keeps both those thoughts in and keeps the fluff real and serious. However I think the best idea is Ferrata's idea of the neophytes facing them and needing bonds to survive which is an awesome idea.

 

 

Now onto Lucius. I like the idea of him but we need to have it realistic. Perhaps instead of having him dealt with in the arena he was dealt with on a world where your chapter was deployed. And as he was being captured to be taken to the Red Ring he slew many battle brothers of your chapter. To make an example of him the other prisoners your Chapter Master walked up and put a powerfist into his skull. Thus the change. This could also be said as just as that happend a chaos counter assualt on your chapters location caused generaonfusion and gave time for your Chapter Master/Lucius to escape back to chaos lines. As such the Chapter Librarians have used their knowledge to hunt out the followers of Slaanesh and slaughter them without hesitation. Slowly they have been getting closer to Lucius thanks to the capture and eventual execution of a close leutenant of the Chaod Lord. This sets up hunting like fluff but doesn't make in concrete fluff to go against what we know of Lucius.

 

Other than that its pretty stable. Remember this is your chapter and everything is your choice so do as you see fit with this chapter.

 

PS - "Your soul is the emperors, fight to claim it yourself!!!!" your chapters Warcry. It sounds odd, they make it sound like theythey wish people to fight the make the souls not the Emperor's which is not right. I would change it a little, perhaps "Your soul in the Emperor's, Fight to keep it that way!". Or something like that. Instead of a warcry have a little montuage said by the Chaplains as you prepare to crush your enemies. "In life we serve the Emperor and in death we have but our souls to give him" this could relate to spritual side of worshipping the Emperor(Different than alot of chapters, and you said you wanted something different...)as well as keeps with the search for your Chapter Masters lost soul.

[kha'delath]

Wow

 

 

thanks guys

 

this post is getting masively d

etailed , which is what i wanted :D

 

 

 

Thanks to Brother scythe for basically turneing all my ideas into somnething which works!

 

 

Thank you to ferrata, youyr idea will be used most definatly, and i will have to lavish some extra attention on my scouts and make them into Bonded-scouts (i wonder what they can be called?)

 

Ok, another is i want to refer to my armyt takin the flesh over steel trait, as the army list which i wrote contains only land speeders.

 

 

there is another twist to my army list which i will reveal when the background is written

 

 

You are doin a ghreat job guys!

Keep it up

;) ;)

[Brother Scythe]

First off you're welcome for all the help. Just remember if you simply take all we say you may indeed have a great chapter but it might not be as much yours as you wish so read what say but change it how you see fit if that is what you want. The ideas are just that.

 

and i will have to lavish some extra attention on my scouts and make them into Bonded-scouts (i wonder what they can be called?)

No need for a different name. Bonding happens to all chapter brothers. It just so happens that these trials are what causes the bonds in your chapter.

 

Ok, another is i want to refer to my armyt takin the flesh over steel trait, as the army list which i wrote contains only land speeders.

 

Well no reason to reference to it unless you really want to. My chapter has little armour because of its age and the fact they prefer to use man power to vehicle power. Even so my chapter has a decent armoury with some tanks and transports. Perhaps your chapters perfered mode is to forgo the use of armour for the use of Battle Brothers, as in their experiance men are more powerful than machines. However the use of Speeders is still needed for fast attacks and recon.

 

there is another twist to my army list which i will reveal when the background is written

 

Hmm sounds interesting, provided it doesn't change anything about the character of your chapter....it has great character as is no need for anything drastic IMO. Can't wait to find out what it is though.

[kha'delath]

Right,just gonna clean up a few things.

 

First off have them sallies geneseed just do not make them 2nd foundind. there are 24(or at least 22)other founding to pick. If you want a very old chapter then a 3rd founding is ideal. My own chapter is young and as such they are a 26th(The newest)founding.

Well, i think ive decided on 7th founding, for no reason other than its my lucky number

 

Now onto Lucius. I like the idea of him but we need to have it realistic. Perhaps instead of having him dealt

Now onto Lucius. I like the idea of him but we need to have it realistic. Perhaps instead of having him dealt with in the arena he was dealt with on a world where your chapter was deployed. And as he was being captured to be taken to the Red Ring he slew many battle brothers of your chapter. To make an example of him the other prisoners your Chapter Master walked up and put a powerfist into his skull. Thus the change

Thats exactly what i wanted, i just didnt explain it well.....

 

Your soul in the Emperor's, Fight to keep it that way!". Or something like that. Instead of a warcry have a little montuage said by the Chaplains as you prepare to crush your enemies. "In life we serve the Emperor and in death we have but our souls to give him" this could relate to spritual side of worshipping the Emperor(Different than alot of chapters, and you said you wanted something different...)as well as keeps with the search for your Chapter Masters lost soul.

 

kool idea and im goin with it

 

\OK the twist is

 

I wanted (this is not definate so if your screaming NOOO in your head do say!)

 

 

An inquisitor and some Grey knights

 

mainly cause they look koool

 

but they could fit in as they are constantly fighting slannesh, deamon or marine, so they call often on the ordo mallues to give them a 'helping' sword

 

 

 

hmmmm,, what yu think? yay or nay

[Commissar Molotov]

Well, it's not such a bad idea, but perhaps turn it around the other way. Rather than your chapter calling upon the Inquisition whenever they wanted, the Inquisition would be more likely to call upon your chapter to do their dirty work. They'd be quite happy to manipulate your chapter to destroy the worshippers of chaos. So perhaps the Inquisitor often gives your chapter 'handy hints' of where the latest Slaneesh-worship hot-spot is, so they can race there and smite the heretic. :ph34r:

[Ferrata]

Advancing on Molotov's idea. Imagine an Inquisitor that knows about the Chapter Master problem and how he was transformed. Now instead of either letting this go or going in for the Witch hunt, he has a good idea. Knowing the chapter is full of guilt and wanting to repent, he sends them information about the location of large Slaanesh cults, which the Chapter chases after. The Chapter think the Inquisitor is helping them redeem their honour, and they can leave their homeworld chasing after their honour, but all the time the Inquisitor is just using them to do his dirty work. Now his forces can be saved for large battles and he has a smaller risk of death.

[kha'delath]

Great Idea

 

 

Kool

:lol: :lol:

[Brother Scythe]

Alrighty so going ahead here I've made a random sample IA for your chapter so we can all understand what it is you want/got. I'll do it point form so you can write it out as you see fit, and obviously add whatever you want this is your chapter.

 

++Chapter Name++: Black lizards

++Chapter Founding++: 7th

++Chapter Master++: Nobody until Thurmzil's soul is restored

++Chapter Symbol++: A black lizard body on a red circle

++Chapter Geneseed++: Salamanders

++Chapter Heraldry++: Scaly green main armour with red and black details, like red scorpians, their name shows only in thier symbol

++Chapter Battlecry++: "Your soul is the emperors, fight to claim it yourself!!!!" . or maybe something else I'm not sure you've decided yet.

++Chapter Homeworld++: Unknown as of now

 

Basic Details

~Slaanesh Lord Lucius killed Chapter Master Thurmzil during Chaos Cleansing on Planet [blank]

~Chapter now seeks to recapture their Masters soul by finding a way to exterminate Lucius

~This has led to Inquisitor [blank] using the Black Lizards as almost his play things, he sends them little tidbits about Slaanesh Cults and the BL desend on them with minimal Inquistion Support to eliminate them.

~Chapter is named from the mighty Black Lizards who roam their planet

~These Lizards are often used as the trials for the new recruits. They will be place into the "Red Ring" with such a beast and have to use their wits, strength and the the support of their future brothers to defeat them. This in itself creates strong bonds of brotherhood among the young recruits which last even in the Veteran company

~Standard Codex chapter? 10 Comapnies of 100 Marines each.

 

More to come and get it fleshed out. So come on here kha'delath lets get this thing more detialed and get some of the simple facts that we have missed out to get such character. Even little things like a Planet name(Or if they are fleet based etc)make the shapter seem much more real for alot of us plus it allows you to avoid such simple questions later on.

[Ferrata]

++Chapter Master++: Nobody until Thurmzil's soul is restored

Begs the question who is in command of the chapter now? You could do something to the Salamanders where the Captain of the first Company is acting Chapter Master awaiting Vulkans return.

 

"Your soul is the emperors, fight to claim it yourself!!!!"

This still reads that you will be removing your soul from the Emperor (something bad). Maybe something like "Let the Emperor claim your soul in battle!"

[kha'delath]

Brother Scthe you have yet again Blessed me with your knowledge!

 

 

 

Alrighty so going ahead here I've made a random sample IA for your chapter so we can all understand what it is you want/got. I'll do it point form so you can write it out as you see fit, and obviously add whatever you want this is your chapter.

 

++Chapter Name++: Black lizards

++Chapter Founding++: 7th

++Chapter Master++: Nobody until Thurmzil's soul is restored, Currently Patriach Reold of the 1st Company

++Chapter Symbol++: A black lizard body on a red circle

++Chapter Geneseed++: Salamanders

++Chapter Heraldry++: Scaly green main armour with red and black details, like red scorpians, their name shows only in thier symbol

++Chapter Battlecry++: "In life we serve the Emperor and in death we have but our souls to give him"

++Chapter Homeworld++: Unknown as of now

 

Basic Details

~Slaanesh Lord Lucius killed Chapter Master Thurmzil during Chaos Cleansing on Planet [blank]

~Chapter now seeks to recapture their Masters soul by finding a way to exterminate Lucius

~This has led to Inquisitor [blank] using the Black Lizards as almost his play things, he sends them little tidbits about Slaanesh Cults and the BL desend on them with minimal Inquistion Support to eliminate them.

~Chapter is named from the mighty Black Lizards who roam their planet

~These Lizards are often used as the trials for the new recruits. They will be place into the "Red Ring" with such a beast and have to use their wits, strength and the the support of their future brothers to defeat them. This in itself creates strong bonds of brotherhood among the young recruits which last even in the Veteran company.

~Standard Codex chapter? 10 Comapnies of 100 Marines each. Yes!

 

 

Ok we need some more Detail yes?

 

Go on guys, we know how good yu are!(brother scythe)

[Brother Scythe]

Well I myself have no problem helping you evolve your ideas into something more streamlined and better fluffwise I would prefer to not simply give out all the details of this army and make it my own. I have 2 DIY Chapters being built and 2 others I have made which are nothing more than ideas currently and would rather not take on yours as a fifth :unsure:

 

As such you need to make alot of these details. I and others will fine tune them for you but this is your chapter.

 

Some of the things you need to work on as it sits.

 

Homeworld or Fleetbased - Also go into details about the choice and where/how new recruits are gathered(Besides the red-ring)

 

Beliefs - You mention you wanted them to "worship" the Emperor different than other chapters. As such place some ideas down on what you think would be sutiable for this chapter.

 

Combat Doctrine - We've delved deep into what they fight but how do they fight? What tactics? What styles?

 

Other Characters - Thurmzil is mentioned but who else? Anyone else have a name or done anything of note? Enlighten us. Also as mentioned who leads the chapter currently. There is no Chapter Master but someone(or some group) need to be in charge.

 

Organisation - How are they organised? I put Codex Chapter as it seems it muct be as you've yet to mention anything else but are they done up differently? Do they follow the Astartes to a key? Do they show chapter markings like normal? Where are they displayed? Do they use different paint scheme or symbols for certian positions or companies or what?

 

These things and more can and should be worked on in order to give you a great chapter with alot of detail.

[kha'delath]

Right okay#

 

Beliefs - You mention you wanted them to "worship" the Emperor different than other chapters. As such place some ideas down on what you think would be sutiable for this chapter.

 

Thi is the first thing i was going to work on.

 

-THey could worship the emperor lke any other chapter

-They could, interestingly see the emeperor in the gigantic lizards which they fight

-They could see the heart of the emperor in the recruits when fighting the lizards?

 

 

any other ideas

 

I wanted something as seeing the worship through conflict and in holy battle!

 

 

 

 

Ant

[Brother Scythe]

Well in IMo you want to avoid them seeing the Emperor in thier kills, as such it may appear they wish to kill him. I would almost say perhaps they feel the Emperor is a godly lizard who watches over them however other chapters(Steel Cobra's I think)have been declraed heretics for such actions.

 

Perhaps they worship him as a god and as you said see his soul in new recruits and thqt is how the Chaplians choose them, only the ones with the most 'Emperor Soul' get recruited. Just throwing some thougths out.

[kha'delath]

Perhaps they worship him as a god and as you said see his soul in new recruits and thqt is how the Chaplians choose them, only the ones with the most 'Emperor Soul' get recruited. Just throwing some thougths out.

 

kool idea

ill go with that

 

 

Right. let work on a character......