Behind Closed Doors..

[iron father]

That's a great design. Very fortunate that the checkerboard is both very Masonic and very 40k. I hope someone will take up the mantle of this project.

[Deadlight]

I know that it was only a film but in "From Hell" staring johnny depp, wasn't "Jack the Ripper" a Free Mason? I dont have anything against Free Masons, infact i once one an award sponsored by them. But the secret mission for the royals, even if involving bloody handed murders could be useful.

 

Also on the theme of the the architecture - the COD rules allow you to take combat engineers. This could be an opportunity to make links to the masons - (When playing COD, this is a trait that you would use alot).

[iron father]

No, I'm pretty sure Jack the Ripper was not a mason. Even if he was, he wouldn't be working for the royals, and I'm not sure what either one of those organizations stands to gain from dead prostitues.

[Guest Akharin]

aclark79 Yesterday, 06:45 PM Post #25

An example of Masonic and 40 marine icons in a sample chapter banner:

Nice sketch!

I may use it as inspiration for my own unnamed DIY chapter I'm working on.

 

iron father Posted Today, 09:20 AM

and I'm not sure what either one of those organizations stands to gain from dead prostitues.

A heavy dislike of Slaanesh, maybe?

 

Akharin

[aclark79]

iron father: Thanks for the compliment, I also hope someone runs with this. There is so much imagery that is masonic in origin, so there are mnany many angles a chapter creator could take.

 

Deadlight: In the movie the ripper was a mason, in real life it is a re-occuring myth, disprovenby all the people who were actually part of the investigation. It is true that many members of the Royal family (the men) where and are masons in England which is part of the reasons the myth stays alive.

 

I think a "royal" connection would be cool, it would be great if in the chapter fiction the connection to the lords or terra or to the custodians could be alluded to, some kind of 'consipracy' at the highest levels of the imperium, but not directly spelled out, so then the reader can make connections to the Inq, the lords of terra, the AM, the ecclisiasty, assasisn, etc etc etc.

 

Akharin: Thanks! Take it and run with it. I'll do up some more art work that is a little easier to see and higher quality if I can.

 

Any questions about the Masons, please feel free to ask, I'll give it some more thought and see what I come up with.

[utilityzero]

maybe they are allowed to recruit from the sons of noble houses on major imperial worlds? but they are required to pay for such an honor with service and the fact that they would have to keep secrets concerning their higher contacts, knowledge their aspirants bring with them, and the nature of the special mission which they might perform in the service of imperial authorities goes without saying.

[Deadlight]

I know that the movie was a fiction, but the rippier killed the prostitute (aka illegitimate pregnant girlfriend of the prince and heir to the throne), and then anyone connected to the princes girlfriend, in order to cover up the evidence. (in the story that is).

 

perhaps new members have to be vouched for by current members to enter?

 

any how - spec ops assainations, movement behind the scenes, these could be part of a secretive order,

 

P.S. i like the design you made.

 

P.P.S. what about the idea of combat engineers? does that sound appropriate?

[Gator_of_Bahamut]

I think Freemasonry is one institution that, like many others such as religions, would not carry over to the 41st Millenium. Furthermore, as others have said, even if it did survive, the Marines are about the least likely place for it to show up. Also, you never know who you might tick off. What if the owner of your local gaming store is a Mason? You'd probably have to ask some Master Mason to help you win them back. Where woud you find one of those? :unsure:

 

Somebody mentioned the Simpsons though. Using the Stonecutters would be too funny!

 

That said, I DO like the idea of Marines being a part of a secret society. Stay away from the Inquisition ties if you do though. As has been said, there are all sorts of secret societies from history and modern times you can pull inspiration from.

 

I particularly like the "lodge" idea though. Perhaps you can have it so each group is enough Marines to take advantage of a Strike Cruiser, and no more. Thus, each group could be called a crew, or better yet, krewe.

 

The whole Jack the Ripper thing came about because some people claimed the way that certain victims were killed reflected some Masonic rights of initiation or something. As aclark said, though, I think it has never been more than a rumor.

 

aclark: That's pretty cool of you to drop in and help, assuming we can trust your information. ^_^ That is a very well done sketch though. Politics and religion are really forbidden topics? That would put a crimp in a lot of conspiracy theories if it was proved.

[aclark79]

I don't mind helping at all, until I finish re-writing my Cameron Highlanders (who suffer from a lost in the warp backstory) I don't have alot to talk about so this is fun for me.

 

utilityzero: That could totaly work, although it isn't the way I'd go. In order to be made a Mason you have to ask, your not supposed to recruit people, only give them info when they ask about it... so you could have the Chapter based on a homeworld where its shrouded in mystery, but still seen as a high high honor. Maybe most people don't know how to get in, they try all kinds of things to impress the secret masters of the planet and that in of itself is an initiation test.

 

Deadlight: Absoultly right, in the movie thats what he was and in real life thats where the rumors came from. Remember though Masonry is symbolic, whereas you could have the Chapter of Marines actually dealling out ritual death to those who hurt eh Imperium. Maybe part of thier purpose is to protect the Status Quo (they might see it as protecting humanity from itself), by eliminating evildoes.

 

No matter which way you go its not going to be Masons, just masonicly inspired, so feel free to deviate.

 

Combat enginiers sounds great as that kind of stuff is right up a mason's alley, both operativly and speculativly

 

Thanks for the compliment on the design.

 

Gator_of_Bahamut: I guess you'll just have to trust me, maybe I'm the dissinformation man. :cuss

 

I think Msonry would surive but would surley mutate in time. It might be unrecognizable to myself after 10,000 years, but in some form it would be around. Oh and I have to point out its not a religion. I don't think there is anything wrong with using the symbology and the public information in your fluff and design, I think most Master Masons would be flattered by your interest and if they aren't oh well. It wouldn't be very masonic to take your minis or something!

 

Part of the purpose of the Lodge is to promote harmony amoung the brothers. What destroys harmoney more than talk about religion and politics? Now in the history of the whole orginazation there have been some Masons who've abused thier positions and the obligations of other Masons, and if my brother is running for office then I'll probably vote for him befor I vote for a non-mason, but its not an organized consipracy. Thing about it, if there was a conspiracy then I demand a better paying job!

 

 

Keep going with your ideas and I'll keep thnking about symbols that can easily be used. Old school masons used lots of skulls and crossed skull and bones to remind them of thier own mortality, that would make geat Space Marine symbolism without even seeming Masonic in the 40k world.

[Commissar Molotov]

Aclark, I like your ideas, but I think that perhaps we have a difference of ethos. I think in the end it needs to be marines with subtle masonic touches. I don't much like the use of 'Worshipful Master' and the like because it doesn't seem very much like the Astartes to me.

 

Utility's ideas regarding the chapter being a secret - young boys not knowing exactly what they're being recruited for - are very interesting, actually. There's a lot of inspiration that can be drawn. I think in some senses you needn't be too concerned about copying every aspect exactly from the Masons. I think you should be prepared to draw upon (and play upon) stereotypes and impressions of the masons as much as the truth regarding masons.

 

Maybe part of thier purpose is to protect the Status Quo (they might see it as protecting humanity from itself), by eliminating evildoes.

 

Tying in to Amalathian philosophy... (remember to think 40k!)

[aclark79]

Aclark, I like your ideas, but I think that perhaps we have a difference of ethos. I think in the end it needs to be marines with subtle masonic touches. I don't much like the use of 'Worshipful Master' and the like because it doesn't seem very much like the Astartes to me.

 

No worries, if it was my Chapter and I decided to do Masonic I would include Masonic elements that would only really be recognizable to another Mason, or someone very well versed on Masonic symbolism. I mean how many people here know what the 47th problem is? And there are a number of Masonic like refrences in 40k already, and no not the Illuminati or the Star-Child stuff. It may be that the designers were going for a Knights Templar influance to many marines, and that Knights Templar also influanced Masons (wheter or not you belive they decended from Scottish Templars). I mean we are talking about Chapter Masters, Not Chapter Comandants.

 

 

 

Utility's ideas regarding the chapter being a secret - young boys not knowing exactly what they're being recruited for - are very interesting, actually. There's a lot of inspiration that can be drawn. I think in some senses you needn't be too concerned about copying every aspect exactly from the Masons. I think you should be prepared to draw upon (and play upon) stereotypes and impressions of the masons as much as the truth regarding masons.

 

Agreed, there are a number of ways to go, I'd think the best way would be to have the Chapter seem very secret, maybe not even admiting to be part of thier secret order (which happens to look like freemasonry). However if you don't include enough obvious symbolism then no one will recognize them as a Masonicly influanced Chapter.... If you look at skulls and symobls of mortality, very Masonic, but no one thinks the skull bearers are a masonic chapter... its to far removed from what people think of as masonic symbols.

 

I'd go really heavy with the Masonic influance inthe fluff and relativly light with the symbols, other than the main ones like the Square and Compass and the all seeing eye (which many masons say isn't originally a masonic symbol, although its accepted as one now). Gotta be carefull though, the Inquisition might see it as a Chaos eye.

 

 

 

I'll post a number of Masonic symbols and you can pick the ones you think are cool or would work.

[aclark79]

I've posted a number of symbols on my photosite, check them out at your leisure

 

Masonic Symbols

[HunterOfTheFallen]

wow I am so happy this topic is so popular. Sorry I've been away from this topic for awhile but I am about 2 days away from leaving for college and there are a lot of things to do around the house (I have a newfound hatred for packing ;) ) first of all I want to say thank you to everyone for their input on this chapter and I am loving everything that I am reading. Aclark79, I've very pleased that we have an actual mason putting his 2 cents into this...I want to become a mason some day and i hope that day will come sooner rather than later. I love that the checkered pattern is both masonic and 40k'ic and I will definitely include that in some way into the chapter. The lodges idea is already a for sure thing and I am trying to write up some backround fluff at the moment between everything that is happening. I am still lost at a name however, what are your guy's take on that? thanks a lot!!

 

HotF

[aclark79]

I'm sure there are other Brothers on the boards who can give you advice. I would say that there are simply a ton of good books on Masonry, some listed on the 1st page by Brother Tyler, which can give you a good insight, and another excelent book is Freemasonry: A Journey Through Ritual and Symbol, an excellent resource for imagry and understanding the some of the meanings behind them.

 

I guess at this point I have to ask what kind of chapter are you looking for, a super aggresive purge the unclean type, a vengeful anti-chaos type, a more sedate or human build up the forces of the imperium type or a more secret behing the scenes surgical trike type. Not to pigeon hole you, but I would suggest at this point taking a few obviously masonic symbols and then taking the ones that aren't so obvious but work towards your intended chapter alignment.

 

What I mean is if your going for the supper agressive purge the unclean, work in alot of swords and scales and skull imagery, but if you want a humanity based chapter go more for the working tool symbolsm, trowel, rulers, things like that into the iconography of the chapter.

[Bloodwraith]

Hmm, now i was under the impression that the only way to become a mason was to have family connections. My grandfather is a mason and he told me this. White aprons? Hmmm, odd, wonder what the turquoise aprons were for then? The masons have no secrets? Hmm, ok if you say so. Not sure i would try and build an army with masonic influence, knight templar yes, masonic? No, doesn't really work in my mind but oh well.

[aclark79]

Hmm, now i was under the impression that the only way to become a mason was to have family connections. My grandfather is a mason and he told me this. White aprons? Hmmm, odd, wonder what the turquoise aprons were for then? The masons have no secrets? Hmm, ok if you say so. Not sure i would try and build an army with masonic influence, knight templar yes, masonic? No, doesn't really work in my mind but oh well.

 

 

No family connection is required otherwise I couldn't have become a Mason. White aprons are the apron worn by the standard Masonic Lodge, other appendant bodies such as York Rite, Scottish Rite, Royal Arch Masons may have different aprons but all Masons wear white aprons at thier home lodge.

[Bloodwraith]

again as i said, odd, maybe it is a different sect with different rules.

[Lord Mordred]

Hummm old topic, but I fell like ressurrecting it!

I'm starting a enw chapter called Orient Brigade, using Genesis logo to emulate the compass and square and trying to fit a lot of symbolism and nomenclature on it.

I was trying to be a bit more subtle into the whats and how, and seeing some of the questions about Freemasons on this topic was scary!

 

So if anyone is still interested and needs helps with the symbols and have any questions on specific fremason stuff, don't hesitate in PMing me, I'll answer what I can!

 

In any case, here's my new chapter (trying to work in a decent story to please the Blood Gods of Lore)

 

Orient Brigade SM