chaos old man

[Raziellycas]

Well my question it's easy, all the chaos marines are heresy time old or they recruit new man for their chapter? because I have this doubt, if they recruit new entry all ok but if they are heresy time old well they must be near to the extinction! after all the wars their number cannot be the same. If this "theory" is true they cannot win aganist imperium it's just a time matter, soon or later the imperium army and the xeno army will kill all the chaos marines1 or they are immortal? ;)

[captainwhizz]

Chaos can recruit new traitors from existing chapters, loyal chapters can be declared heretic and turn to Chaos to survive, Chaos can try to make new marines using geneseed, and other methods

[Brother Nihm]

You must also take into consideration that some of the chapters were legion back then, numbering in the excess of tens of thousands.

 

-Many of the "old" traitors still remain.

-Fabius Bile unlocked the key to creating new marines from (stolen loyalist) geneseed. I would think that he can use traitor geneseed as well, provided it isn't heavily mutated. :lol:

-Time flows differently in the Warp, for some of the traitors it might feel as if the Heresy was "a few months back" hell, they might even think it was yesterday.

[Brother Eleysium]

Many of them are very old, but they do know how to create new marines and do recruit them from cultists and other traitors in the eye, and throughout the galaxy. I was reading somewhere about the inductions that the new Chaos marines go through, and I cant remember where I found it. It was rather interesting and if I can dig it up I will post the link so that you can check it out.

[Khaardun]

There is also planets inside the eye of terror teaming with millions of life, you can think of the eye of terror as a second universe, the chaos marines can go down on these daemon worlds and recruit tribesmen and warriors on these planets.

[Warp Angel]

In the Chaos 'dex, it says something to the effect of, "All the original plague marines were Deathguard", but since then other marines have embraced Nurgle out of a desire for power or to stave off imminent death."

 

This would imply that under the right circumstances, even the Master of the Deathwing could swear to serve Nurgle in his dying breath and be reborn a servant of chaos.

 

Not likely, but it could happen.

 

My overall point being that chaos has many methods of recruiting new marines that don't necessarily involve geneseed.

[Hlakir]

The Thousand Sons must be in a bad situation though. I guess they can't make new rubric marines so one day they will only have sorcerers (which they can recruit)

[Brother Nihm]

Fluff reasons aside,

 

What is to stop Ahriman and his Cabal from "dusting" new recruits? :P

[Damas]

Must be nephews of the Necrons, with that egyptian stuff: just build new ones :P

[Silent Speaker]

Concerning the thousand sons, I remember reading something to the effect that when a rubric marine is destroyed, he can be "resurrected" in some suitably vile act involving a sacrifice (like a thrall wizard) and the armour just "grows" on the victim. Eventually the flesh turns to dust within the now sealed armour ('All is Dust!', after all :ph34r:) and viola! The rubric hath returned! If this is true, that means that, as long as there are 1ksons sorcerors to resurrect them, there will be rubrics! An unending supply! Replnished and recycled again and again (though they were the smallest legion, right?)

 

Of course, I can't remember where I read this :lol:, it may not even be 'canon' (It might be from that Ian Watson book "Chaos Child" or whatever, the final Inquisition War novel.).

[Darth_Lunchbox]

The traitor Legiosn can replenish there numbers quite easy, Fabius Bile unlocked the secret of creating new space marines and provides them with new marines in exchange for protection, plus Iron Warriors or possibly all traitor legions have creatures called Incunuabula (I think thats how you spell it) which creates new space marines when a loyalist or dead one is placed inside it, another way of replenishing the gene stock.

 

Also chaos can grant alot of power to a single person, look at luthor when he fought el'johnson he equalled him in power but lacked physical prowess, anyway to the point their could be humans powered to the point by chaos so they are marines, also the gods resurect their followers, nurgle for one, plus thousand sons are dust trapt in thier armou, get another empty suit but a spell on it and bam instant space marine.

[Kevlarshark]

There is a short piece of fluff in the most recent Codex chaos were a Black Legion Marine encites some native people to rebel to attract some 'Storm Giants' marines and steal their geneseed.

 

I Presume this practice is not uncommon in the traitor legions (the fluff also hints he used the nicked geenseed to make the surviving tribesmen into chaos marines). It follows that in many of the confrontations between Chaos and Loyal marines the chaos marines steal a certain amount of geneseed. (Each captured marine is enough to make 2 more Chaos marines so even a drawn conflict would result in the chaos force increasing in size... :))

 

Using the tribesmen to take out the marines would result in a win-win situation. Loyal marines dead (a good thing) and no 'valued' casultys plus the chaos force increases in size (fan-blimming-tastic :drool: )

[Darzoni]

The Thousand Sons must be in a bad situation though. I guess they can't make new rubric marines so one day they will only have sorcerers (which they can recruit)

 

I always imagined that the sorcerers would just make new armor or repair the old and bind some poor sod's soul into it. As for new sorcerers, well... there's always people who take the shortcut to power, eh? ;)

[ProteanSun]

The way I pictured it is that when a marine is offered a chance to serve Tzeentch, he will undergo "The Spell". If he is found unworthy, he is transformed into a spawn. If he is worth, his mortal form is destroyed and he becomes locked in his suit of armor (and is given one fo those nifty hats). If he is of strong enough willpower he will retain his body and be reborn a sorceror.

 

I am currently writing fluff for a 1K sons army where the Lord absorbs the souls of those he kills and he will reanimate the broken suits of armor with Daemon Magic and fresh souls.

[Anarch]

Thousand Sons i picture like necrons in a way since power armor truly can't be totally obliterated their is always a little peice left they either repair or make a new suit for that little trapped soul! the traitor legions can either summon their dead which was in a space wolves book or read iron warriors (too compictated to explain)

[The Angelus Sanctus]

Another thing to realise with the Thousand Sons is that the legion has been heavily "broken down" into factions, Ie a Magnus half and an Ahriman half.

 

One can probably assume any new marines inducted under Ahriman's command will probably undergo through some dark ritual that will seal his spirit to the armor and turn his body to dust (since I'm sure Ahriman is probably still anti-mutation).

 

As for marines that go under Magnus, it may be possible, they do retain a physical body, but one can imagine it probably undergoes rapid mutation (since Magnus was not a fan of the Rubric spell).

 

But that would be my general take on the Thousand Sons to say the least.

[WarsmithDave]

If anyone has read Storm of Iron, it is just before the 13th crusade. The IW did not take part in the 13th crusade fighting for Abbadon. By laying siege to a backward fortress laboratory they fufill their debt to him. By getting the prize within this fort they are the only legion that does not need to be at Abbadon's command during the crusade. The prize you ask? Geneseed of course, this outpost being the only place the annual tithes are kept besides Mars. With such a prize Abbadon can have Bile makes thousands of more traitors. Its no use to use all your force to break through the Cadian Gate if you have no momentum to carry you out is it? On another IW note in Dead Sky, Black Sun the Warsmith from the other novel has his own cut of the seed. The descriptions of how he creates marines are creepy and macabre. The seed is put in the womb of a huge woman who is an unwilling mother and several infants are put in with the seed. Somehow is bonds with one of them and eventually creates a fully grown skinless marine. I simplifying it, but the book is really worth the read. If you've ever wondered what Medrengard is like pick it up.

[Prince Khargore]

I always figured that when the armies of Chaos go to war they would fight it out, and when they got done if they won they would take the spare body parts of the dead from both sides and mutate them untill they became an whole body. Add a suit of power armor and ta-da a new chaos marien.

[WarsmithDave]

The problem wouldn't be the body itself, but the gene seed. It has to be taken from dead marines, regrown and implanted in a suitable candidate. Most legions have pacts with Fabius Bile who does this for them. Though there are other ways of using the seed to create marines. Dead Sky, Black Sun describes one. I've also read a few short stories in which victims from chaos raids are taken to be turned into a chaos marine.

[Ju'kosian]

1. Are recruited from Daemonworlds and the likes.. somewhat like loyalists recruit but then with mutations and stuff..

2. Fabius Bile is able to create Marines and this is described in fluff..

3. Like in " Dead sky black sun" by using Geneseed and something called "Daemonwombs"

 

Prior to the 13th Black Crusade the Iron warriors Captured Geneseed on a planet. There were only 2 places were Geneseed was stored, and since the IW took one of those places that should even the odds a bit..

[the jeske]

Fluff reasons aside,

 

What is to stop Ahriman and his Cabal from "dusting" new recruits? :P

magnus told he kill him if he ever performs the ritual again.

also its not realy needed as long as at least one 1ksons sorc survives [meaning magnus has to die for that ] all he needs is a proper number of sacrifice and the legion can be reborn .

 

the only legions who do have problems with geting new recruits are the WE , because they have problems with getting enough gene material and the DG who have they gene seed destroyed . all other chapter even those that were nearly destroyed in the legion wars [the EC and the BL] have more or less effective harvest methods .

[FerrumIgnatus]

Traitor Legions Recruitment

"We want you as our new recruit!" :blink:

 

-As mentioned some couple of lines above, time flows differently in the Immaterium.

-Traitor Legions probably have access to new recruits on other worlds in the likes as the Loyalists have.

-Loyalists who turn Renegade can be included in Traitor Legions, and even rise in the ranks.

-The "Daemonwombs" in Dead Sky, Black Sun are called Daemonculaba, though this method of re-producing new recruits is rather inefficient, as there are more "failures" then succesful specimens.

-Fabius Bile will gladly experiment with new, fresh stock.

-The majority of Chaos Space Marines are grizzled veterans of untold battles, easily matching the experience of some chapter masters, and are therefore unlikely to be shot in the head due to "Oh, look at that shiny bolter that points directly at me!". Leave that to Imperial Guard Conscripts.

 

I find the Daemonculaba-method rather interesting, though. You take a little infant, and surgically implant it inside the womb of a grotesquely swollen female, and feed her with the crushed remains of the fallen -friend or foe alike- so that the Daemonculaba can retract the geneseed from the "Astartes-paste" and use some daemonic/mutant tendril-like thingies inside the womb which have pierced the skin of the infant and are now passing on the geneseed. You wait a couple of days, and if the Infant has succesfully absorbed the geneseed, then it should be a screaming, skinless Astartes when it's forcefully drawn out of the womb. If it is unsuccesful, well, it get's flushed away and left to die, though some of these "unsuccesful" survive and become the Unfleshed in Dead Sky, Black Sun.

 

-FerrumIgnatus

[Morbus]

I have always thought that some if not all Chaos Gods resurrect

their favourite warriors.

Papa Nurgle is the one that comes to mind. Although there propably are not many

who deserve the blessing(or a curse) such as that.

[Bloodwave]

Well, in the WE fluff, aparently Khârn was resurrected by Khorne. Although I don´t know if the fluff was 100% clear about him being dead... it says something like ...his body mangled and laying a top a pile of bodies..." that descripsion implies he was actually dead... but could be near dead too.

 

In any case, I guess that would be an honour reserved only for the more worthy champions, if I´m not mistaken, when a cult marine dies, his sould do not get lost in the warp, it melts with the essence of his patron god... so, a chaos god has to willingly "reject" the champion soul and push him back into the material realm and into his body... for doing that, the chaos god surely has to consider the service of that champion more worthy in this plane rather than the power boost his soul would represent...

 

Still, with so many sources out there, it has to be easier for the traitors to replenish their ranks than for the loyalist... traitors and chaos legions are not as picky with geneseed as imperial astartes.

[Dammeron]

The term Chaos Space Marines is quite broad, referring to both those ancient Traitors who fought during the Horus Heresy (many of whom still survive, especially in the Great Legions), and those that have spat on their oaths of loyalty and thrown in their lot with Chaos in the millennia since. There are also those rather interesting individuals who have proven themselves worthy of being inculcated into the ranks of the Traitor/Renegade armies since; essentially newly created Chaos Space amrines that, as the second ed codex points out, are far more hardy and brutal in nature than Imperial Space Marines owing to the truly horrendous endurance and initiation trials they are subjected to in order to determine whether or not they're worthy.