chaos old man

[Brother_Soulrot]

the only legions who do have problems with geting new recruits are the WE , because they have problems with getting enough gene material

Huh? That may be true but Khorne is the Chaos God that attracts followers quicker than any other (the 40K universe revolves around war, after all). CSMs are more likely to turn to Khorne than the other Gods because he represents the things they most like doing (killing and maiming).

[the jeske]

CSMs are more likely to turn to Khorne than the other Gods because he represents the things they most like doing (killing and maiming).

yes , but that way if your really lucky you get something like a the zerkers under huron . you dont get new WE. no man can get near angorn and most of the WE officers are either dead /demonic or to crazy to take gene seed durning battle. On top of that they almost got destroyed in the legions wars , the break up means no stable base of operation , no gene seed banks etc . If it wasnt for Bile the WE would have died out by now.

[Ju'kosian]

CSMs are more likely to turn to Khorne than the other Gods because he represents the things they most like doing (killing and maiming).

yes , but that way if your really lucky you get something like a the zerkers under huron . you dont get new WE. no man can get near angorn and most of the WE officers are either dead /demonic or to crazy to take gene seed durning battle. On top of that they almost got destroyed in the legions wars , the break up means no stable base of operation , no gene seed banks etc . If it wasnt for Bile the WE would have died out by now.

 

I think Angron and other officers of the legion still can think clearly enough to sustain the legion.. indeed that idiot Khârn messed things up..

But according to the fluff Angron once came out off the eye commanding 50.000 Bezekers.. now that's a lot of bezerkers mate..

 

So There will be people who still want to keep the legion somewhat intact, I don't think all of them are just frothing madmen..

They'll have their clear moments..

[the jeske]

I think Angron and other officers of the legion still can think clearly enough to sustain the legion

well I wonder then why didnt he take any WE when he went to armagedon . for demons [the khorn ones] there is no such things as enough blood and "ok now we stop to kill and move to the next planet" etc . read demon world there you have a nice khorn demon prince . about the officers . its true that in the new dex the zerkers dont go wild in the rules, but the fluff stays the same . WE were unstable even in their loyal times [specially the new recruits with the implants] after the legions wars they are just plain crazy . In in to the maelstorm we see how huron controls his zerkers [non WE so less crazy , because of the lack of implants] . he constantly sends people for them to kill [what beside stasis is probably the only safe way to travel along side of them] .

 

But according to the fluff Angron once came out off the eye commanding 50.000 Bezekers.

source ? and by the way even in crusade time there werent 50k WE. and there shouldnt be more after the break up and near destruction of the WE durning the legion wars.

 

So There will be people who still want to keep the legion somewhat intact, I don't think all of them are just frothing madmen

well sad truth is Gav Thorpe ex GW writer and one of the DT of our new dex thinks differently .

[Teethgrinder]

On top of that they almost got destroyed in the legions wars , the break up means no stable base of operation

"When the Heresy failed and Horus was slain, Angron and the World Eaters battled halfway across the galaxy to the Eye of Terror and the daemon world Khorne had prepared for them." (WD151)

 

Sounds like a base of operations to me :)

 

well I wonder then why didnt he take any WE when he went to armagedon .

He did. There were thousands of them. Four companies (each of c.1,000 Legionnaires) are named in the Codicium Imperialis article on Armageddon in WD279, there are World Eaters in the orginal First War for Armageddon board game, and five World Eaters strike craft are referenced as accompanying the hulk Devourer of Stars to the planet. There were World Eaters at Armgeddon.

 

source ? and by the way even in crusade time there werent 50k WE. and there shouldnt be more after the break up and near destruction of the WE durning the legion wars.

The Dominion of Fire colour text in the 2007 Chaos Space Marine Codex is the source.

Do you have accurate numbers on the World Eaters Legion? From any time in their history? I'd be impressed. You can show where it definitively states that there were never 50,000 during the Great Crusade/Heresy, let alone any speculative guess at their post-Heresy numbers? All I know is they lost about half their strength at Isstvan, the exact numbers are still hazy and leaves plenty up to the imagination. As the "50,000 Berzerkers" figure comes from proper 40K Codex canon, there's not much point in denying it; might as well think about ways it could come about. :)

 

Given that the Traitors were freed from any sort of logistical issues curtailing their numbers once they fled into the Eye, I don't see any reason that there shouldn't be more of them after thousands of years of gathering their strength in exile. Sure there will be losses, but there are also Berzerker-Surgeons and Apothecaries to rebuild them. And if Angron put the word out that he needed a few thousand more bodies for a massive invasion, I reckon he'd get them.

[Brother_Soulrot]

With respect, I think the 'WE can't recruit anybody' argument is slightly flawed. For one thing, the WE probably lose far more troops than anyone else because they're mostly Berzerkers (or entirely Berzerkers depending on which fluff you prefer), so there has to be some sort of plot device to allow them to replace losses.

 

Personally I think that because the WE aren't 'organised' anymore it actually makes it easier to recruit new Berzerkers, because the 'legion' now simply consists of many completely independant warbands comprising CSMs devoted to Khorne. It wouldn't actually matter much to a Skull Champion if a potential recruit who had succumbed to Khorne's power was from a different Legion, a renegade, or whatever. As far as the warband's leaders are concerned, the more bloodthirsty warriors they have, the greater the harvest of skulls for the Skull Lord. In the middle of a battle, a CSM with a liking for mayhem and carnage might find the red mist overwhelming his thoughts and fall in with the guys in red armour from that point onwards. There would probably be some kind of initiation fight but that's Khorne for you.

 

The Iron Warriors, Word Bearers etc might be fussy about gene seed, allegiances etc. but would the WE really be fussy about who they recruit? Ultimately all it takes to be a WE is a chain weapon, red power armour and a willingness to cause mass slaughter in the name of the Blood God! :)

[the jeske]

All I know is they lost about half their strength at Isstvan, the exact numbers are still hazy and leaves plenty up to the imagination.

yes , and then they took the greatest loses of all chaos legions during the siege of terra and then they were broken up and near destroyed durning the legion wars . they dont operate as a single fleet , the fluff tells us that they cross the stars by hiring them selfs to other [non WE] lords . when do they store the gene banks ? where do they store the gene seed if they dont have stasis chambers ? They gene seed stock was either destroyed or is held up on mars [the fluff was never [precise on that].

 

He did. There were thousands of them. Four companies (each of c.1,000 Legionnaires) are named in the Codicium Imperialis article on Armageddon in WD279, there are World Eaters in the orginal First War for Armageddon board game, and five World Eaters strike craft are referenced as accompanying the hulk Devourer of Stars to the planet. There were World Eaters at Armgeddon.

what kind of a contradicts the sw fluff that says that angron brought only demons with him and that the main reason for him to fail was that fact that he had no mortal followers with him . If angorn had a whole fleet and 4000 WE the sw would have lost the war .

Given that the Traitors were freed from any sort of logistical issues curtailing their numbers once they fled into the Eye,

save the legion war that almost destroyed the BL , EC and WE . and the constant war against demons the fractured warbands after the primarchs lost control or/and interest in their legions . and the fact that the gene seed banks and recruitment camps were left on the imperial side , they didnt have any other problems .

 

Sure there will be losses, but there are also Berzerker-Surgeons and Apothecaries to rebuild them.

only the senior apothecaries , gene stock specialists were left purged by the imperials . most of the legions [save the EC what gave them a huge boost in the begining of the legion war] had only line apothecaries . good for battlefield surgery and gene seed extraction , not so good for gene seed manipulation re creating the whole recruitment procedure and that in the face of mutations and changes to the gene seed.

 

but would the WE really be fussy about who they recruit?

because its the legions way . each and every [chaos or non chaos] legion saw itself as the superior one as the most perfect and best . that didnt change after the heresy . one may say that after the legion war it became even stronger . Also about the "new zerkers" how many chapter companies do we know of that turned zerker khorn , that survived to this day . most traitor chapters like the thunder barons , violators etc were destroyed after some time [not by imperials I give you that] .

[Teethgrinder]

yes , and then they took the greatest loses of all chaos legions during the siege of terra and then they were broken up and near destroyed durning the legion wars . they dont operate as a single fleet , the fluff tells us that they cross the stars by hiring them selfs to other [non WE] lords . when do they store the gene banks ? where do they store the gene seed if they dont have stasis chambers ? They gene seed stock was either destroyed or is held up on mars

Well, I've already pointed out that the background says Khorne prepared the Legion a daemon world as a reward - could a sizeable force not have conceivably taken any remaining genetic material there? And despite whatever losses they may have taken, ten thousand years before the current timeline - we still don't know any actual numbers, and have no actual evidence to dispute any number that comes out of official canon background.

 

what kind of a contradicts the sw fluff that says that angron brought only demons with him and that the main reason for him to fail was that fact that he had no mortal followers with him . If angorn had a whole fleet and 4000 WE the sw would have lost the war .

I don't think there's any such backstory - Angron was held up crossing the equatorial jungle because of the need to build monuments to strengthen his daemonic legions. There's no caveat to suggest that there were no mortal followers (especially as the invasion is presaged by half the Armageddon PDF regiments going over to Chaos - so Angron certainly had mortal followers with him). And there are references to the World Eaters on Armageddon in White Dwarf going back 16 years. I don't think you'll find any background that supports the idea that Angron's invasion was solely daemons, but if you do then it's been overruled many years ago.

 

And the Space Wolves very nearly did lose the War. It was the company of Grey Knight Terminators who tipped the balance :D

[Cmndr Sarpedon]

I hate to bring back a semi-dead post, but I think chaos players should know this. I myself have learned quite abit :)

 

Death to the False Emperor!