Veteran Squad loadout

[Lord Morgrim]

Hi there,

After buying the DV box and falling in love with the librarian model I am building a DA force now (i bought the box for the Chaos stuff and now hello second army)

I was thinking about a unit of Veterans with storm shields as a bodyguard for my Librarian (wish he could take a SS!) Is it worth taking some power weapons with them? Or maybe some plasma guns?

I am going with a No Deathwing army just to be different to all the DA in town! ( but a little bit of ravenwing)

[Nightmare84]

I would us the veterans as a command squad with apothacary. Not quite the same but has the same look. You can then skip on the shields since have fnp. And keep them cheap, just double plasma and two Bolter guys

[HJL]

i use veterans as close combat counter assault troops or as a huge bodyguard for azrael.

[Brother-Sergeant Bohemond]

i use veterans as close combat counter assault troops or as a huge bodyguard for azrael.

 

I love this, in a Crusader :woot: All PW and some PF! 10, plus Int-Chap and Azrael wrecks most thinks it charges into it.

[Brother iKon]

i use veterans as close combat counter assault troops or as a huge bodyguard for azrael.

 

I love this, in a Crusader :) All PW and some PF! 10, plus Int-Chap and Azrael wrecks most thinks it charges into it.

Emperor black bones! Thats a whole lot of points in one place. What size game would you be playing for that kind of force?

[Centurion645]

Hey Morgrim, what size points are you playing with, and will this be the only squad of veterans? As Nightmare said, a command squad would be pretty effective, as your Librarian would get FNP, as well as a Retinue/Bodyguard. But if you really want Vets, a few Power weapons would be nice.

[Brother-Sergeant Bohemond]

i use veterans as close combat counter assault troops or as a huge bodyguard for azrael.

 

I love this, in a Crusader :) All PW and some PF! 10, plus Int-Chap and Azrael wrecks most thinks it charges into it.

Emperor black bones! Thats a whole lot of points in one place. What size game would you be playing for that kind of force?

 

minimum 1500, and thats when I feel like having a blast.

 

Usually run at around 1750. If I feel points are restrictive, I drop the Chaplain. Its not toooo bad, considering the fact that it will tear a new one in pretty much any squad it faces. Except Terminators, who are slightly more resilient.

[Lord Morgrim]

Thanks for the replies. As far as FNP vs SS the 3+ invulnerable wins hands down doesnt it? I guess its a matter of points. Maybe two in the unit can have PF and SS combo? Its a very pricey unit though....

@Centurion- they will be the only vets in the army at 1500 pts to start with

[cypherthefallenangel]

Well there is good reason that everyone plays DW. IMO, The vet are way too expensive and hardly ever make there points back. They're basically an overpriced tactical squad. A vet with just a SS, or plas-pistol, or a power weapon costs 40pts(cant be a troop choise, ATSNF, 3xS4 AP-, 3+/(3++ ss)). A DW terminator with THSS is 43pts(troop choice, fearless , relentless, 3xS8 AP2, 2+/3++). See what I mean.

When I use vets, I generally spam out melta or plasma and put them in a droppod, rhino or LR. Ride or drop in and blast something or deny an out of the way objective. Hopefully when the new codex is released they overhaul the pts for all the ironwing and ravenwing units to make them competitive again.

[shabbadoo]

DA Vets have 2 Attacks, and they cost 5 points more than a regular marine because of it. If you build them shooty then you waste that extra Attack (and the points you pay for it), so build them to chop stuff up.

[cypherthefallenangel]

DA Vets have 2 Attacks, and they cost 5 points more than a regular marine because of it. If you build them shooty then you waste that extra Attack (and the points you pay for it), so build them to chop stuff up.

They actually cost 9pts extra ea. more than a tac-marine. all you get for that is +1 attack , ld 9 and more wargear options.

[Tamwulf]

At the points cost the OP is contemplating, why not just take a Deathwing squad?

 

3x SS/TH

1xPF+AC

1xPF+SB+Cyclone

 

Give your Librarian Terminator Armor and Bob is your uncle.

 

You can even take an Apothecary to get FNP.

[Cactus]

Thanks for the replies. As far as FNP vs SS the 3+ invulnerable wins hands down doesnt it?

Feel No Pain will make the models more resilient to small arms fire. Anything that requires a storm shield rather than your usual armour save will likely ignore FnP too, however when you fail a normal armour save it's good to have that second chance to ignore the wound.

[HJL]

Thanks for the replies. As far as FNP vs SS the 3+ invulnerable wins hands down doesnt it?

Feel No Pain will make the models more resilient to small arms fire. Anything that requires a storm shield rather than your usual armour save will likely ignore FnP too, however when you fail a normal armour save it's good to have that second chance to ignore the wound.

 

 

that isnt really true any more, the changed to FNP make it work on a much wider range of attacks.

[shabbadoo]

DA Vets have 2 Attacks, and they cost 5 points more than a regular marine because of it. If you build them shooty then you waste that extra Attack (and the points you pay for it), so build them to chop stuff up.

They actually cost 9pts extra ea. more than a tac-marine. all you get for that is +1 attack , ld 9 and more wargear options.

Really. ;) You should probably look at the codex a bit more carefully. For +5 points added to the cost of Tactical Marine, a DA Vet with +1 Attack and Ld is very much worth it.

 

Comparatively, for only 1 point more per model, the Command Squad members also gains Fearless (and don't take up an FOC slot), which it totally worth it too (especially now that the No Retreat! rule is gone). That also opens up the Apothecary and Standard Bearer options.

 

Also, people bring up Deathwing, but there is a very good reason NOT to take Deathwing- they cannot chase down beaten units like DA Vets can. Sure the Deathwing will be a good option in most cases, but against large units that you want to beat in combat, break, and have the chance to outright destroy by pursuing and catching them, Deathwing are not THE choice. Just depends on what types of units the enemy is able to field.

[Cactus]

Thanks for the replies. As far as FNP vs SS the 3+ invulnerable wins hands down doesnt it?

Feel No Pain will make the models more resilient to small arms fire. Anything that requires a storm shield rather than your usual armour save will likely ignore FnP too, however when you fail a normal armour save it's good to have that second chance to ignore the wound.

that isnt really true any more, the changed to FNP make it work on a much wider range of attacks.

*checks rulebook* Oh yeah, I hadn't realised that. Good to know before I bring out the Deathwing for their first game of 6th edition. Thank you. :cuss That just makes it an even better option than I thought.

 

Shabbadoo makes a fair point (one that I hadn't considered before) about being able to run units down but personally I rate being a scoring unit more highly.

 

The thread did start with 'no Deathwing' however, so of the two remaining:

 

The command squad can have feel no pain and extra attacks, a couple of special weapons and a couple of power weapons/fists if you want them, and they're fearless. If you're using the interrogator-chaplain in your army as well as the librarian they can upgrade to a sacred standard for the fearless bubble.

 

Company veterans have better weapon options and come in larger numbers. Storm shields look freakin' cool. :P

 

I prefer the command squad because it brings more interesting things to the table. As for the original question: firing plasma guns will prevent you assaulting, which is where either of these units will be more effective. Power weapons in addition to storm shields will make an already expensive unit more expensive, but will give you a bigger return on your investment if they get to do their thing.

[Brother-Sergeant Bohemond]

Unless you dont take shields and just use Azzy :cuss

[cypherthefallenangel]

I looked it up and.... Your right my bad. I was confusing them with sternguard vets.

But without spending TONS of pts on upgrades they suck against most other cc units.

For example.

10x vets with only pistols and chainswords.

Shooting...10x S4 AP5 shots @ 12”

Close combat... 30(40)x S4 AP- @I4

Not very impressive 200pts . Most cc units of the same pts will kick the crap out of

10x vets (cc) boltpistols and chainswords, 3x powerweapons, 1x powerfist, 2x stormshields, flamer or melta, and 2x plas-pistols.

This would be a tough cc unit. A little overbord on upgrades but it has something for everything you will come across.

Shooting...1 S4 ap5 flamer/ S8 ap1 melta, 2xS7 AP2,, and 7xS4 ap5 shots @12”.

Combat... 9(12)x S4 ap3, 2(3)x S8 ap2, 15(21)x S4 ap- attacks.

Alot better at assault than the first one. Weighting in at 340pts. It should be, but go up against 340pts of death comp or nids. They will would be butchered. Hell a 215pts hammer squad will go toe to toe with It.

But we're not done yet. They need a ride. Cause if you don't they'll never make it across the board.

Droppod? No, cant assault when you show up so they will get hammered on for a turn. Possibly making them ineffective.

A rhino/razor? Nope, cant assault when you disembark and will almost always get cracked open on the first turn. So they'll end up walking anyways.

A landrader/crusader? Yes, this will most likely get you to the enemy and unload some woopass on your opponent.

Now your upto 450-590pts assault unit that can't caprure objectives. for the same pts. You could take 2x 5DW with cyclone missles and a typhoon speeder with points to spare. A waaayyy better use of those pts for a cc unit.

Im not totally against the vets. I do use some. I stick to 6x vets with 1x plasma gun and 5x combi-plasma or 5x plasma-pistol and bolt-pistol(with the new gunslinger rule you can fire both in your shooting phase). Give them a droppod and its lots of plasma death when you hit the dirt. They may even survive a few turns. For 200-225pts.

[cypherthefallenangel]

Double post sorry.

[Brother-Sergeant Bohemond]

Running 10 Vets like that would make more sense in a larger game.

 

You also need to spend 130 on Belial before you can run Termies as troops, which OP has already said he does not want to do.

 

Perhaps best use of points is 5 Vets, 3 SS, 2 PF and 3 PW?

 

Unless you also run Azrael (which you can do with the starter set using the CM) then you spend 200, + 170 for 8 PW and 2 PF (running 10). In a crusader.

 

Thats...370 + 225 + 250. Looking at best part of 1000 points, chuck in 2 Tactical Squads and the Librarian. Watch it cream whatever it runs into. I would only suggest this at a minimum of 1500 points, preferably higher games.

[Tamwulf]

Beg pardon about suggesting Deathwing! I forgot not everyone wants to run competitively or have that kind of meta. The couple times I've fielded my DA lately without Deathwing or Ravenwing (Greenwing FTW!), my meta was not kind to me. We have so many challenges in the DA Codex to overcome, that it's discouraging to me.

 

Outside of the Deathwing, we have no close combat/hard hitting assault units. I.e., Vanguard, Honor Guard, Sanguinary Guard, Death Company, Wolf Guard, Purifiers, Howling Banshees/Striking Scorpions, the Dark Eldar equivalent, Harlequins, the Necrons even have a couple CC units, all the bugs... I know I'm missing some, but the point is, for the Dark Angels, our best CC unit are Deathwing terminators. Take them away and we have a very, very shallow unit that can assault, but isn't nearly as good, costs a lot of points, and requires transportation. Oh, and we really don't have the transportation options a lot of the other armies have outside of the Deathwing.

 

Hopefully, GW has seen this and will give us a couple more options for CC in the new Codex.

 

Haven't seen anyone mention taking bikes as a possible replacement instead. A couple bikes that can turboboost, jink, toughness 5, and a couple other little rules could be a viable alternative.

[JeffJedi]

Don't forget about Power Axes. You can shave off a few points but still have S5 and AP2. Or even Mauls with +2S.

[march10k]

Sometimes, math-hammer and the imperative to field the most points-efficient list possible need to be set aside in deference to the Most Important Rule. It's okay to have a little, um, fun, at the expense of WAAC-ness. I do that in WFB with a 700-point blob of knights with Karl Franz Himself leading the charge. They always underperform, but they're super fun. Just yesterday, in fact, they were all turned into rats by that awful skaven spell. I think a full veteran squad with Azzy and a raftload of combi-flamer/powerfist marines, bolter and power sword marines, and so on, with an interrogator chaplain in a crusader, while it would cost a good thousand points, would be just pure fun. It would eat anything it came across, save thundernators, without a second thought (unless the crusader first thinned the thundernators with bolterspam), and would never "make its points back," but it's only a game. Go ahead and indulge a little, every now and then! Seeing Belial make a personal appearance at every unforgiven-involved battle is lame. Never seeing Azzy and his cabinet show up to personally smite an evildoer is pretty lame, too!

[Tenebris]

I am actually thinking to make my Veterans the loyalist version of the DV chaos chosen. So that would roughly be:

 

6 Veterans

 

- Power Maul + Bolt Pistol

- Lightning Claws

- Power Axe + Bolt Pistol

- Power Fist + Bolt Pistol

- Plasma Gun

- Plasma Gun (to add some DA flavour)

 

For a total of 235 points for quite a good all rounder squad. The melee weapons capitalise those 2 attacks and the plasma guns provide some firepower when need be.

[march10k]

I am actually thinking to make my Veterans the loyalist version of the DV chaos chosen. So that would roughly be:

 

6 Veterans

 

- Power Maul + Bolt Pistol

- Lightning Claws

- Power Axe + Bolt Pistol

- Power Fist + Bolt Pistol

- Plasma Gun

- Plasma Gun (to add some DA flavour)

 

For a total of 235 points for quite a good all rounder squad. The melee weapons capitalise those 2 attacks and the plasma guns provide some firepower when need be.

Since you can't get a bonus attack by combining a powerfist with a boltpistol, why not put a plasma gun on that model? Or a combi-flamer, my own perference?