NTaW Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 The whole reason points costs are separate from unit datasheets is so they can be wholly revamped without needing to re-release a Codex. I'm pretty sure that's in part the intention of the once a year Chapter Approved book. Always be wary of building models to suit rules, maybe even more so now that the points cost for matched play can be adjusted so easily. Kyrne, Silverson, dusara217 and 1 other 4 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodTzar Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 Hello guys, is it me only or there is more of you that feels like BA got huge nerf in terms of points; Sanguinary guard 22 a pop with all the additional goodies..not even mentioning Storm raven... I mean it is quite appealing to be able to drop almost everything 9" from opponent than try to charge, while being all in the auras, but I feel it makes the army very one dimensional even worse than 5th ed :/. Does this mean BA are now turned into slaves of AURA-Hammer? Did you guys have some success with 8th ed BA? ~BT redshadow 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartali Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 BA specific stuff seems reasonably pointed in comparison to the other Marine stuff - stuff just costs more in 8th ed. You could probably argue over the BA Dread pointing, and Infernus Pistol range and/or pointing, but that's about it. Don't feel BA are one dimensional at all at this early stage. For a start you can't drop almost everything 9" away - you're limited to half your units. I think there's probably a few builds that have potential. I'll probably be jumper/terminator/mech to start with anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTaW Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 I'll be repping my power fist laden Razorback army of 5th edition, the army that has basically been useless for two editions is back with a vengeance! Sneak some jump units and Dreadnoughts behind them and Tactical units in Drop Pods to land behind an advancing enemy...oh yes. I'll not be forgetting my Furioso filled Stormravens or Death Company filled Land Raiders either. I am very ready for 8th edition. LutherMax 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted June 5, 2017 Author Share Posted June 5, 2017 (edited) Played a new list - still with Corbs/Meph/Astorath - vs. Khorne and zerkers.....my gawd. I was essentially tabled in turn3. I'm a little bitter at how good zerkers are in relation to DC. Same cost, yet they fight twice in the phase, are S6, and -1 . Like...what crack were the people smoking that thought DC has the same value? Edited June 9, 2017 by Morticon Rafen IX, Chaplain Gunzhard, Helias_Tancred and 2 others 5 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted June 5, 2017 Author Share Posted June 5, 2017 Hello guys, is it me only or there is more of you that feels like BA got huge nerf in terms of points; Sanguinary guard 22 a pop with all the additional goodies..not even mentioning Storm raven... I mean it is quite appealing to be able to drop almost everything 9" from opponent than try to charge, while being all in the auras, but I feel it makes the army very one dimensional even worse than 5th ed :/. Does this mean BA are now turned into slaves of AURA-Hammer? Did you guys have some success with 8th ed BA? ~BT You're not wrong. Played two games- looking at damage output of lists and finding that our point-to-resiliency is exceptionally poor in relation to what we can try throw back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleon Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 Just be aware the chance of a Sanguary Guardsman with a plasma pistol cooking himself on overcharge (when he has a re-roll) is the same chance as him killing himself previous edition. Because two 1s in a row happens more often than you'd think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vahouth Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 Played a new list - still with Corbs/Meph/Astorath - vs. Khorne and zerkers.....my gawd. I was essentially tabled in turn3. I'm a little bitter at how good zerkers are in relation to DC. Same cost, yet they fight twice in the phase, are S6, and -1 and reroll charges. Like...what crack were the people smoking that thought DC has the same value? Yep, the DC has been hit relentlessly with the nerf bat. The comparisson with the Zerkers is cementing my opinion that this new edition was not sufficiently playtested. Unless the guy that playtested BAs was killing everyone with the DC. Helias_Tancred and Morticon 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Gunzhard Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 Played a new list - still with Corbs/Meph/Astorath - vs. Khorne and zerkers.....my gawd. I was essentially tabled in turn3. I'm a little bitter at how good zerkers are in relation to DC. Same cost, yet they fight twice in the phase, are S6, and -1 and reroll charges. Like...what crack were the people smoking that thought DC has the same value? Yep, the DC has been hit relentlessly with the nerf bat. The comparisson with the Zerkers is cementing my opinion that this new edition was not sufficiently playtested. Unless the guy that playtested BAs was killing everyone with the DC. Just sayin... this IS the kind of feedback they claimed to be interested in hearing... : https://www.facebook.com/groups/40krulesandqueries/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 Keep in mind that sanguinary guard are 22 points without any guns or encarmine weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spagunk Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 So my opinion was that when they play tested the BA, whoever set up their army doubled down on drop pod dreads and DC. I am gonna guess they went full on Ancients formation with Lost Brotherhood with maxed out DC squads. It apparently wrecked someone hard (guessing tyranids or maybe even orcs) which prompted the nerf. Not sure that was the case but it certainly feels that way. vahouth, Morticon and Chaplain Gunzhard 3 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damon Nightman Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 After watching the Frontline Gaming livestream the other day, they made it seem like armies (orks, nids, DE) and units (zerkers) that have been lackluster or downright bad for a long time got a huge buff to I guess make up for being crappy all these years? (Not saying I agree with that mindset when balance should be the main focus, not "justice") and armies like eldar that have been good forever have been taken down a peg or two... so it seems to me that they made zerkers basically op on purpose since they have sucked for so long. I mean it's not the worst idea in the world, but definitely not balanced by any means... DC were probably what most BA players were taking. Even though they weren't technically OP, they were pretty much the best unit we had, so they nerfed D.C. To make SG and other stuff seem more worthwhile. I honestly think the D.C. Nerf makes our index and options seem pretty internally balanced... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 I can only hope DC become a bit less muddy when we have a codex to bulk everything out vahouth 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spagunk Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 After watching the Frontline Gaming livestream the other day, they made it seem like armies (orks, nids, DE) and units (zerkers) that have been lackluster or downright bad for a long time got a huge buff to I guess make up for being crappy all these years? (Not saying I agree with that mindset when balance should be the main focus, not "justice") and armies like eldar that have been good forever have been taken down a peg or two... so it seems to me that they made zerkers basically op on purpose since they have sucked for so long. I mean it's not the worst idea in the world, but definitely not balanced by any means... DC were probably what most BA players were taking. Even though they weren't technically OP, they were pretty much the best unit we had, so they nerfed D.C. To make SG and other stuff seem more worthwhile. I honestly think the D.C. Nerf makes our index and options seem pretty internally balanced... Internal balance was never a big problem with BA as with other armies IMO. The reason why DC were goto choices in 7th was because it was the only thing that could stand up to all other army combinations. We appeared to be fine versus other armies until 7th edition marines came about. Everything afterwards just bumped the game up to 15 while we languished with a previous set of skills. Angel's Blade helped a bit but basically reinforced doubling down on DC. Damon Nightman, Morticon, Helias_Tancred and 1 other 4 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helias_Tancred Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 Death Company was our one real powerful unit and option in the game. Nerfing them was a poor poor decision, especially when you compare them to the Khorne Bezerkers now, or the silly fact they have the same morale as a standard space marine! So far I like most of the rules of 8th edition, but I'm at best suspicious of how we will fare in the new edition. Morticon and Chaplain Gunzhard 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 Now to take from AoS and apply yea verily here, you don't do it on your one. What the death company benefit from are having stuff about to buff them, now successor will suffer because the characters aren't allowed, however taking Lemartes, and Astorath, not forgetting a death company dread, now you've got one angry, nigh unshiftable (in leadership terms) blob. Rerolling all failed charges/hits, means you are getting in and decking whatever, and Astorath makes sure they pass leadership end of. Then if you've got the points/slots pop a sanguinary guard ancient nearby you're rerolling 1's to wound for the infantry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redshadow Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 I think everyone's missing a trick here.. We have everything the marine dex does plus extras... Good extras Dante, sanguinor, sanguinary priests, company vets with jump pack are awesome, death company are awesome a squad of ten with jump packs and power axes is 250pts, if their with a priest that's strength 7 there wounding and killing everything. There's more lemartes re-roll charge but I think are best build is to hide good assault units behind tanks move them 12/10 depending, shoot everything with Dante giving tanks re-rolls to hit then next turn they stay fire everything again whilst assault units jump out and drag as many unit as they can in combat, with sanguinor +1 attacks, the priests +1 strength and Dantes re-rolls they'll murder anything they touch... We are strong this edition so far but we need to use the aura buffs and keep everything tighter together which isn't a problem anymore because there's no pie plates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 We don't get everything. We have a specific list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redshadow Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 (edited) Were impreial asterites... Just our bonuses only work on chapter blood angels Edited June 5, 2017 by redshadow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calistarius Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 Were impreial asterites... Just are bonuses only work on chapter blood angels Unfortunately, that's not really how it works. We have a specific list we can pull from to make a battle forged Blood Angel force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redshadow Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 (edited) Ups ? Did I get this wrong ? We don't need there stuff anyways lol were awesome, Everything I put about our units still stands there unique to us and really good. Edited June 5, 2017 by redshadow Calistarius 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted June 5, 2017 Author Share Posted June 5, 2017 Were impreial asterites... Just are bonuses only work on chapter blood angels Unfortunately, that's not really how it works. We have a specific list we can pull from to make a battle forged Blood Angel force. May want to re-read how to build battle-forged. We can happily take marine stuff - as it has (more than) one keyword common -Adeptus astartes (as well as Imperium). The problem isn't that we can take marine stuff- its that....dare I say it....compared to other things...I dont think there's that much out there that's super incredible? In a points for damage, or resilience for points ratio :/ Im still fiddling though, but nothing stands out. It feels like loyalist marines have been balanced EXCEPTIONALLY well- but...."too well" in relation to the other armies. Fidelius Animo 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redshadow Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 I agree... But that's only good for us because we get to still be fluffy with our army and still be competitive. We haven't been this good in ages... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 I agree... But that's only good for us because we get to still be fluffy with our army and still be competitive. We haven't been this good in ages... Hmmm not seeing it personally, especially not compared to last edition. We lost a lot of unique powerful stuff. Chaplain Gunzhard and Arkhanist 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
durdle-durdle Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 There's a lot I do like. I like the sanguinor, company vets with jump packs, astropath (one of my favorite models in the gAme), mech transports. Otoh, death company cost a little more than vanguard vets and only are better on the charge (and not even then if you trade the vanguards pistol for a second chainsword) and a 6+ NFL which is completely unreliable. They do have good synergy with lemartes, but I feel are largely lacking. I think they need some small change to differentiate them from vanguard vets a little. Currently it comes down to whether you want to keep your pistol (and have 4 attacks on the charge only) or have that extra 4th attack all the time, be a couple points cheaper, and not have a pistol. Unless I'm going very into a death company theme, and taking lemartes + several other squads, I'm more likely to take vanguard vets. The pistol is nice to have, and gives you the small chance of killing an enemy your tied up with in the shooting phase, but seems very niche. More likely, you'll kill whatever you charged (or die) in the first turn of combat when you charged, or the opponents turn. And if you get charged, you have that extra attack in their turn too plus your turn again. Basically, if you're going a full death company army with lemartes go for it. In single or double units instead, I'd heavily consider vanguard vets. (I wish death co had some sort of extra bonus like a morale effect, were fearless, had extra strength when they charged, someone hint to really make them stand out against our plethora of jump infantry we have. Poor assault marines though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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