Special Officer Doofy Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 That's the stupid part- they restricted guns but not CCWs. So it's not even being limited to the kit- it's 50% limited to the kit Shhhhh! If GW finds out they will make it worse haha. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/4/#findComment-5753149 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaVolt87 Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 It’s a reasonable expectation, I think, to lose options. Maybe more likely than not? Unless they come out with a chaos weapons upgrade kit, but that seems unlikely. I don't see why though, it can force you to buy the HH tartaros or cata's instead for CSM since there is no difference in the armour rules anymore. Those two kits cost more than the CSM termi kit and look way better IMO. CSM isn't the budget faction for collecting IMO and thats a good thing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/4/#findComment-5753424 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 I don’t think they’d mind selling those extra kits, but wouldn’t intentionally write rules to take separate kits into account. Just doesn’t seem to be their M.O.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/4/#findComment-5753477 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaVolt87 Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 I still don't like the implications, that would leave SW WG termi's untouched because they are very similar versatility wise to ours at the moment. Honestly, better for the game to have nids, eldar, tau out before more MEQ. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/4/#findComment-5753840 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 (edited) Yeah even if we have a codex for a month before 10th it would be nice to not just get copied and pasted over from a prior edition (or within the same edition) again. Edited October 17, 2021 by Juggernut Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/4/#findComment-5754651 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaVolt87 Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 On the bright side, AL and WB will have probably the most thematic armies with mortals in the CSM dex. Still seems a bit of a waste to not have lost and the dammed in a separate faction codex. Marshal Loss and Lord Marshal 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/4/#findComment-5754744 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Loss Posted October 18, 2021 Author Share Posted October 18, 2021 Loadouts are a tricky beast. I've definitely held off building a lot of kits I have piled up because I'm worried about what will happen in our book. On the bright side, AL and WB will have probably the most thematic armies with mortals in the CSM dex. Still seems a bit of a waste to not have lost and the dammed in a separate faction codex. If the rumoured releases pan out, it's definitely looking like a dream come true for my Word Bearers. Re: LATD, it's always possible that this is just "laying the groundwork" and they plan to break them out into the own army eventually, but I will say that I was surprised to see so many non-marine releases in the 2022 CSM wave. Not a bad thing, mind, just surprised. Khornestar, WrathOfTheLion and Tallarn Commander 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/4/#findComment-5754823 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 We'll see how it pans out. I'm using this time before our codex drops to build and paint all my piles of shame. :) Khornestar, MegaVolt87, WarriorFish and 3 others 6 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/4/#findComment-5755755 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 Same here! I even decided to revive my long-dormant painting thread. Just need to get it moved into the AL subforum... Cerberus1775, WarriorFish and Tallarn Commander 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/4/#findComment-5755839 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shovellovin Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 Can we reasonably hope that Haarken Worldclaimer will be given decent rules in the 9e codex? Shame to have such a cool model have such lackluster rules. Tallarn Commander and Iron Father Ferrum 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/4/#findComment-5755931 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 He won't be in the codex, you'll have to wait for the Black Legion supplement. ...I'm kidding, I have no insider knowledge of the Chaos release plan. But if any Traitor Legion gets its own stand-alone supplement (assuming WE & EC are getting stand-alone codices), it'd probably be the Black Legion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/4/#findComment-5755935 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Officer Doofy Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 Haarken needs some love. Lucius too, he is the only chaos lord I know that doesn't even get 4++ haha. Hopefully the book corrects alot of the shortfalls. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/4/#findComment-5755951 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squike Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 so this might be slightly off topic but it relates to the current state of CSM/Chaos, and rather than expect a coherent answer from GW via and FAQ question, I thought here would be a better place. so considering DG/TS & CSM all share the "Chaos" keyword, in a Battle Forged army I could have a Patrol Detachment of each. Now I know the rule of 3 exists for units with the same datasheet, but how does that work when units have the same names but different datasheets, e.g. Helbrutes, Maulerfiends, Forgefiends, Heldrakes. Could I run 2 Helbrutes in the CSM detachment and 2 in the DG detachment, they have the same name, but the rules and stats are different? could I run 2 Helldrakes in the CSM detachment and 2 in the TS detachment, again they have the same name but completely different stats and rules. the same goes for the Mauler and Forgefiends... the same could be said for all the unit changes that have happened to the other TS/DG units but not CSM, (plague marines, Rubrics, Defilers , Possessed etc.) as well as having more than 3 of a unit on the field those units will also react completely different on the tabletop... have i got this completely wrong and this isn't possible or its entirely possible and just a big of a mess as it appears. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/4/#findComment-5757613 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Officer Doofy Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 I could have sworn they specifically mentioned the DG, TS and main chaos marine book's Daemon Princes share the rule of 3 as far as datasheets are concerned. I just got to remember where I saw it and I'll let you know. So my guess is no. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/4/#findComment-5757622 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squike Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 (edited) ah yes, interestingly I just looked at the datasheets for them, and unless there is a mistake on the Russian datasheet website, the DG and TS princes have different attack stats and invun saves as well as movement stats with wings, on top of their cult specific rules being different. So at what point do we think GW would regard them as different units from a rule of 3 standpoint? because even in the prince's case the names are actually specifically different. which then goes towards with predators being split into two datasheets, (Annihilator and Destructor) what's the point of splitting the sheet if you cant take 3 of each? because their stats are even further aligned than the Daemon Prince's are as its just the main weapon option that is different... Edited October 26, 2021 by Squike Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/4/#findComment-5757657 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Officer Doofy Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 (edited) April 2019 update had this: "WARHAMMER 40,000 RULEBOOK Official Update Version 1.5 wrote: ORGANISED EVENTS The updated Organised Events guidelines table restricts the number of times a particular datasheet can be included in your army. A few common questions have arisen from this: Q3) Are the Daemon Prince datasheet from Codex: Chaos Space Marines, the Daemon Prince of Chaos datasheet from Codex: Chaos Daemons, the Daemon Prince of Nurgle datasheet from Codex: Death Guard, and the Daemon Prince of Tzeentch datasheet from Codex: Thousand Sons all considered different datasheets for the purposes of the Organised Events guidelines? A3) No. For the purposes of these guidelines all these datasheets are all considered to be the same." That's where I saw it. Edited October 26, 2021 by Putrid Choir Squike 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/4/#findComment-5757668 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squike Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 so again, where do they draw the line, is it with items of the same name or items with similar profiles? because the Daemon Prince's now all have technically different names, and different stat lines. it seems like chaos are punished for GW's screwups when it comes to keeping chaos datasheets consistent for common units. or are Daemon Princes now just the exception to the rule. Is a Datasheet defined by its name or its basic unit stats? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/4/#findComment-5757700 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Officer Doofy Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 (edited) That's a good question. I just remember Daemon Princes were one of the units being abused that made GW want to push for the rule of 3 for TO's to begin with. I think they are the exception. Death guard possessed have a different name and statline as well to their counterpart. I would think you could do 3 and 3 of those. But I'm just some dude on the internet haha. Edited October 26, 2021 by Putrid Choir Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/4/#findComment-5757707 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaVolt87 Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 I imagine if the keywords aren't a 1-1 match, they would be considered different. That's how I interpreted that anyway. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/4/#findComment-5757743 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squike Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 so most of the examples above have different keywords, not including faction keywords, even the Daemon Princes mentioned have different non faction keywords. they only ones that are the same are the forgefiend and maulerfiend between CSM and TS and the Defiler between DG and TS. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/4/#findComment-5757970 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Closet Skeleton Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 (edited) Daemon Princes have always had different datasheets between books and yet counted as one unit. Brood Brother Heavy Weapon Teams and Guard ones have completely different keywords and count as the same unit (the stats are different too but only because one has a trait built in). The FAQ is pretty clear and is a specific arbitrary exception to normal rules, there's no way to 'logic' around it. The way rule of three works is by name, but brood brothers and Daemon Princes are exceptions. Anything other than the name at the top of the datasheet is irrelevant. The DAEMON PRINCE keyword doesn't matter, you can have Syll'Eske, Be'lakor and 3 unnamed Daemon Princes. Expect to see Daemon Princes even harder to spam as DG ones are limited to one per detachment. Edited October 29, 2021 by Closet Skeleton Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/4/#findComment-5758632 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WickedJester1013 Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 Is that faq still valid? That was from 8th edition of I recall Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/4/#findComment-5762633 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WickedJester1013 Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 I think what covers them as far as daemon princes go is that you are limited to 1 per detachment and can only have so many detachments. For the other units mentioned I don’t think there is a clear answer. The chaos book is all messed up with your outdated rubric and plague marines lol. The way I see it is your asking for theoretical rules talk, to that I would say the spirit is to limit spam and to me it seems like rules lawyering to get around it. If your asking because you want to do it on the table your better off asking your local GW/TO/friend group. Cheers! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/4/#findComment-5762642 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Ruminahui Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 I'm pretty sure the limit on demon princes across chaos codexes remains, and is buried in the match play rules along with the more general rule of 3. I'll take a look at my rulebook when I get home and report back. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/4/#findComment-5762709 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Loss Posted November 9, 2021 Author Share Posted November 9, 2021 (edited) I'm pretty sure the limit on demon princes across chaos codexes remains, and is buried in the match play rules along with the more general rule of 3. I'll take a look at my rulebook when I get home and report back. Yeah, you're right - page 280, in the matched play section: ...each player can only include the same datasheet in their army three times. For the purposes of this restriction, the Daemon Prince, Daemon Prince of Chaos, Daemon Prince of Nurgle and Daemon Prince of Tzeentch are all considered to be the same datasheet. Edited November 9, 2021 by Marshal Loss WrathOfTheLion and Dr_Ruminahui 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/371366-what-to-expect-from-9e-csm/page/4/#findComment-5762805 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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