the jeske

its an anti flyer list. if someone has a quad raptor list for example. Or a lot of flying DPs. It has a ton of scoring units, and it makes stuff like eldar lists waste shots on stuff. At the same time your runing 6 HQ 6th and eariler edition eldar super friends style. they can deal with problem targets, can alfa strike stuff. There are games where you lose all the HQ and the DC, but the scoring dudes won you the game. In other games your scoring dudes try to not die as long as it is possible while your DC and HQs go hunting. the fire base primaris and techy work ok, they aren't dark reapers, but when you need a list that has to kill a flyer build this list does quit well. At the same time it does not totally suck like some counter builds. I personally like the more sb veteran version of the list, it plays a bit like eldar jetbike/warp spiders list played, but with more bodies and stronger melee.

soups are not [although it is nice to have a G-man that works on everything] about buffing everything with everything. It is no longer the case, but there was a time when it did not matter much if any of your other stuff could buff those 5 lords and magnus

The slick chaos models like IW look characterful and good. The chaotic chaos models they did like the DV are butt ugly, rather have no new models, then get an ugly update and then be told by everyone "look chaos already got X" . The "chaos got X" excuse was used over and over again. But you got helldrakes, but you got magnus, but there is new DG/1ksons etc those things actually do push stuff back, and if instead of getting nice non overcrowded models, someone wants to get ugly ones, then there is green stuff, plasticard and the DG model line. A slick model can be moded, can be converted, an overcrowed new-style one can not. And GW is not know for being able to do good looking models with a lot of detail. Sometimes they do, and the models can be a gem, but if someone want to imagine how new zerkers would look like, they already exist in the AoS line. for every aspiring bloodbringers there are 10 blood reavers or warriors.

what is there to joke about meta game set ups? Do you joke about war or sports too?

That is rather heretical a view, because it claims that there is no difference between pious men and women of the imperial navy, proud imperial merchants and dutiful navigators and an eldar or orc psyker. Because those people are in touch with the warp on a daily basis. G-man was not the warmaster and Russ had the direct order from emperor to deal with any threat posed by space marines to his planes. Plus the squad wasn't anything special, I don't think Russ though any of his brothers was safe. Going by todays fluff, he probablly wouldn't have the time to care what G-man is doing or claiming.

It is a cost thing. It is one thing to play the losing side or an unequal scenario in a game that cost you 0-150$. Heck the game could be build to lose, and the only way to "win" in it would be to check how long you can last. It is a way different thing, when to play you and your opponent require 700$+ of stuff[and I think we all know how stale the game becomes if you play vs the same person over and over again, no matter if you win or lose]. when the cost of a game becomes 2-3k $ [cost of table, the armies of 2-3 people], even if the cost is shared it still a lot. The threshold for being ok with losing over and over again is for most people put a lot lower then the avarge cost of a w40k army and again this are not all costs, there can also bepainting, tables and terrain for it etc This means people do try to optimise their armies. the problem with this is that an optimise army [not a tournament army, but you know an assault army that may actually pull of an assault, a shoty army that doesn't always get outshot/run over in melee etc] for faction A, maybe better then a "WAAC" list for faction B. And as the community is not that large people playing both kinds of armies/factions/lists do play against each other. This generates a ton of dislike for each other. Because it is hard to explain to one self why my 700$ work better then my opponents 700$[and heave forbid his army is cheap and good like Draigowing]. And even if you can it is always easier to say that the other dude doesn't know how to play and is salty now[army A player] or the other dude is a WAAC douchbag that hates his army, his life and is a prime example what counts as not being a human. On psychological level we also encounter two aspects that buff the dislike even more. In general two different groups can be antagonistic to each other and often are, but bloodiest and biggest conflicts you always get within the same group. You will never hate an infinity or warmahorde player[as a group, without personally knowing them] as you hate a WAAC player or a fluffhead. The second aspect is the aspect of space. When w40k grew there were a ton of player coming and going. It was possible for a local store community to have two sub groups one playing the game the type A way and the other the type B way. Sadly as sells went down, and both the lnflux of new players went down, there just wasn't enough people to support both such playstyles in local communities[GW sending mixed messages by their codex design also didn't help, it was mind blowing to see codex like orcs/nids and eldar/marines come out from the same DT in the same edition]. To make it short for those who do not want to read the whole thing. W40k costs too much and is too much of a time investment to play it without having fun. Something has to be there even if it is just a social thing, and the game is more an excuse to met friends[you know the way our fathers went to fish aka be out of home for a weekend, specially pre big holidays]. The community is split and it will always be split, what I would like to happen though is for people to understand that there is only one way to play the game type A for life.

Well am not sure about that. If people post armies from large tournament all over the world, with different set of tournament packs being run [so lets say one ITC pack can't screw the data]. And the type of Chaos list turn up to be very simiular over and over again, then it seems like the interent does know a thing or two. All good armies in 8th had 2-3 things in them. Swarms, multi shot weapons, smite spam . On and off gimik stuff that placed high was stuff like dual primarchs, 5-6 SR[till nerfed], multiple knight+G-man[till everyone started running smite spam], so skew builds that had some horrible match ups and required playing a pre set type of opponents to really do well [and could really take a nose dive like 2/3 or worse, if they did not]. Chaos good stuff was FW[broken points cost in initial months of 8thed], primarchs, demons. If you make or made a list with those things and had smite, swarms and multi shot weapons, your weapon automaticly became good. Stuff like AL that was added later, boosted some lower tier stuff[melee units like zerkers] in to workable range, but the really bad stuff[like csm] stayed as unusable as it was before. Actually pointwise you can replace conscripts+commisars with normal IG squads and the lists work just fine. Have even more shoting now thanks to the hvy weapon teams normal IG dudes bring. Consrcipts are mostly a thing for soup lists now.

Well it depends what demonic is suppose to mean. If it suddenly means that AL or IW look like DV chosen, then we may have a problem as far as looks go. And there also lays the problem with csm. Something that is ok for BL or some mutated renegade group, does not fit the art of fluff of other legions. A demonic or half possessed look for WB can be awesome, when converted and painted real well. using the same on AL makes it feel as if someone painted their models the wrong way.

I would replace the GMs with G-man, replaced the sternguard with predators. Also why not drop the vets and run regular IG, cheaper and AC got nice buffs in the new update

It is kind of a hard to not be negative about the GK changes post last update. And if GK players do care about new people, it is probablly a good way to not give them a false idea about the state of the faction. Some people think may get a false image that GK are just tier 2 or something like that. IMO it is the same for tau. I don't think there is much[specially after the update] to be happy about, if one is or wants to be a GK player. And it is more fair to be up front about it. And the fact that GW could fix it [index, codex and the new rules update] and did nothing, does leave people salty. I can understand that, I mean even if w40k get a really fast update cycle the quickest something will get fixed is next year rules update.

Am rather sure that the DT more then once pointed out that they want each player to buy as many models as possible, including GW materials showing armies which have illegal set ups of units, and with their use being explained by "I like it, so I use it". what GW does is to say that if something is "unfun" or complained about in the rule set/game, it is not their foult. Which is more avoiding the responsibility, then anything else.

well most GW books are not good value, codex are a very small upgrade on index in case of a lot of armies. If we go by that we could stop on the level of buying an index or even downloading the rules/making your own. The index is an update to costs, if it is not posted on a GW controled website for free and you want to use a unit that has changed, the sourse for rules is the index. Now on a social level of course someone can force someone else to play, the same way someone who is higher on a local social ladder can say we don't play FW[or we do] this day/event etc But it does not change the rule. People mention that nothing in life is mandatory, well on a technical level, maybe. But how long can someone decide to not breath or drink?

Talked to some old friends it looks like the update won't happen till the half year errata review. Last chance for something to be changed[i hope for you guys for good, and not bad] is when smite is going to be changed. It is an important part of 1ksons/GK game play, so maybe something will be adjusted. Still mass letter is a good thing to do, it will show GW how many people are there that care for GK. It would be nice if we could have this stickied in Amicus, so people playing other factions could join in. Although that maybe a gainst thef orum rules.

but you can't be sure to kill it with 1 SB. so you take 2 and suddenly my stuff gets targeted with 3 SB instead of 4 from that unit, and that is if I only deployed one mine. IMO 2 biovors are a must, and 3 are not 1 too many.

If your in to a whole full system[old necromunda/gothic/mordheim/etc] it can be really fun, and I understand liking skirmish systems. But as others said GW does tend to pull a plug on specialist games after some initital hyper focus. The old "not necromunda" isn't even a year old, if you want to check what can happen. So as long as you know and accept that, AND have people that want to play it can be really fun. We played the first version of necro for decades, and it was always fun.