dswanick

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Good point. I was just sitting here, considering this same angle. I just wasn't sure if that variation in wording really makes much difference...

Hey, as long as you're willing to accept the loss of the Gift then I'm willing to accept one re-roll. But that's not the OPs stance, he contends that by limiting it to one re-roll you can apply the disallowed result - based on the wording of the BRB rule on re-rolls having to accept the second result.

Now I do think some things need to be clarified here. There are two different situations going on here: - The first is Gift of Mutation. "Gift of Mutation Do not apply any Spawnhood or Dark Apotheosis results; roll again on the table instead.", C:CSM, Pg.67 This rule tells you to not apply these two results, but to re-roll instead. If you want to argue that Codex > Rulebook does not apply, then if you roll either of these results and then re-roll either of these results you can't apply them but you also can't continue to re-roll. losing the Gift of Mutation. You must accept that Codex > Rulebook if you want to keep rolling until you get a result you can apply. - The second is Boon of Mutation "Boon of Mutation ...he must immediately make a roll on the Chaos Boon table (re-rolling the Dark Apotheosis result)...", C:CSM, Pg.70 I'm willing to accept that, in this case, if a first DA result is rolled and the re-roll comes up DA then the model does become a Daemon Prince. It's a very rare occurance and might be intentional that the DA result should be unlikely but possible. However, to get this possibility you have to accept that Codex does not overrule Rulebook in which case you must accept that in all instance (and not just this one), including the example above.

No. Codex overrules rulebook, and the Codex tells you to keep rolling until you get a valid result. This is where your wrong. The BRB does state "The second roll counts, even if it means a worse result than the first, and no single dice can be re-rolled more than once, regardless of the source of the re-roll. Way wrong bud sorry. That's been a rule since I think before 2nd ed. I know for fact 3rd. "On rare occasions, a conflict will arise between a rule in this rulebook, and one printed in a codex. Where this occurs, the rule printed in the codex always takes precedence."BRB, Pg.7 The BRB rule tells you to take the second result even if worse than the first. The codex tells you to keep rolling until you get a valid result. Codex > Rulebook, so you do what the Codex tells you. And please, don't call me "bud".

No. Codex overrules rulebook, and the Codex tells you to keep rolling until you get a valid result.

Quick question to this. Am I allowed to charge a unit in the assault phase, if the unit I was shooting at in the shooting phase is completely destroyed? Or am I not allowed to assault at all because I have to attack a unit I was shooting at? You can if the charged unit is a formerly embarked unit forcibly disembarked by your destroying their transport in the shooting phase. BRB, Pg.80

Agreed, but the are several members in this forum who have argued thus in several threads in this sub-forum. And I've encountered some IRL who make the same argument. This one always tickles me. What do these people think "counts as" means? Heck, you tell me. You've debated them almost as long as I have. :P

Agreed, but the are several members in this forum who have argued thus in several threads in this sub-forum. And I've encountered some IRL who make the same argument.

That depends on your groups definition of "counts as". If they define "counts as" as "is equal to in all respects" - then yes, a Deep Striking Skimmer counts as having moved Cruising Speed so may claim a 5+ Cover save. Further, if your group allows Deep Striking Skimmers to move Flat Out, it can then claim a 4+ Jink Cover save. If they would argue that a model which "counts as" hasn't actually moved, then no - a Skimmer must have moved Cruising Speed to claim a Jink Cover save.

/tongue in cheek It doesn't say the Pistols 'shooting' profile is ignored, only some aspects of it. It still have a shooting profile with a range. :P Oh, yeah, cause I can so see that conversation go down : 'I used the pistol's shooting profile during the shooting phase, therefore I have to use it during the assault phase - I beat you down with my 12"...' :P

"A pistol can be used as a close combat weapon. If this is done, use the profile given above - the Strength, AP, and special rules of the pistol's Shooting profile are ignored", BRB, Pg.51 The pistol only has the combat profile during the assault phase, not during the shooting phase. The pistol's shooting profile is ignored during the assault phase. In each phase, the pistol only has one profile - a shooting profile during the shooting phase, and a combat profile during the assault phase. As the pistol never has two profiles during any given phase, it never forces a (and becomes subject to the) choice restriction rule. "The Foehammer is a thunder hammer that can be used as a ranged weapon with the following profile:", C:SW, Pg.51 Arjac's Hammer, however, always has both the shooting and combat profiles, thus requiring the choice be made and adhered to. a pistol always has two profiles also then. you use the shooting one for shooting and the CCW one for CC. they are the same thing according to BRB Seriously dude, do you even read what others post before declaring your opposition? You are so going on my block list.

"A pistol can be used as a close combat weapon. If this is done, use the profile given above - the Strength, AP, and special rules of the pistol's Shooting profile are ignored", BRB, Pg.51 The pistol only has the combat profile during the assault phase, not during the shooting phase. The pistol's shooting profile is ignored during the assault phase. In each phase, the pistol only has one profile - a shooting profile during the shooting phase, and a combat profile during the assault phase. As the pistol never has two profiles during any given phase, it never forces a (and becomes subject to the) choice restriction rule. "The Foehammer is a thunder hammer that can be used as a ranged weapon with the following profile:", C:SW, Pg.51 Arjac's Hammer, however, always has both the shooting and combat profiles, thus requiring the choice be made and adhered to.

That can't be correct. As if it is, nothing can ever trigger; The rule would literally be unable to work. What?!?! GW writing a rule which, by strict RAW interpretation, can't work - inconceivable! (Cue the Princess Bride quotes). But seriously, no. Arjac's Hammer is a good example of wargear that is affected by this rule (as much as I hate to admit it). Arjac's Hammer has the Thunder Hammer combat profile all the time as well as the shooting profile listed in the Codex. Neither is conditional, nor are they mutually exclusive as is the case with the pistol. So in the case of Arjac's Hammer you have to choose the shooting or combat profile and therefore can't throw it and then use it in the subsequent Assault phase. I just hope this gets a resolution from GW, 'cause otherwise it kinda sucks.

No. "A Pistol also counts as a close combat weapon in the Assault phase(see pages 24 and 51).", BRB, Pg.52 "A pistol can be used as a close combat weapon.", BRB, Pg.51 "+1 Two Weapon: Engaged models with two single-handed weapons (often a Melee weapon and/or pistol in each hand) get a +1 Attack.", BRB, Pg.24 The pistol both "counts as" and "can be used as". Whether or not you "use" it as a close combat weapon, it still counts as a close combat weapon thus giving you the benefit of +1A when paired with another CCW. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And this, which I just noticed : "A pistol can be used as a close combat weapon. If this is done, use the profile given above - the Strength, AP, and special rules of the pistol's Shooting profile are ignored", BRB, Pg.51 So, this : "Where this is the case, there will be a separate line in the weapon's profile for each, and you can choose which to use each turn." never applies. The reason being that in the shooting phase, a pistol only has its Shooting profile and no Assault profile and in the Assault phase the shooting profile is ignored and it only has an Assault profile. As it never has two profiles at the same time, you are strictly never called to "choose" which to use.