Malios

Hahaha. Touchè about the battlescribe friend. Well played. I'm surprised GW's legal team haven't tried to crush battlescribe yet again since the 40k, AoS and Warhammer+ apps went live. They cease and desisted pretty much everything else.

Honestly, this hobby needs another large competitor in the ring. So step away and try other gaming systems. Let the nostalgia go and see what other companies have to offer. Then come back as one of those niche, Blanchitsu types :p

If I was to get back into 40k with my Blood Angels, the codex, rulebook, blood angels supplement, chapter approved and mission pack would cost me $383AUD. $383 dollarydoos. And that's before models are purchased. For $383 dollarydoos I can purchase multiple 300 point armies for Infinity with all necessary tokens and markers, or even an entire Infinity Sectorial. And the rules are free on their Army app. And I can use whatever bases I want and whatever terrain I want. For $383 dollarydoos I can purchase two mega army collections for Kings of War which includes the rulebook. And use whatever bases I want. And use whatever terrain I want. For $383 dollarydoos I could almost purchase two ready to go starter armies for Bolt Action with the rules included. For $383 dollarydoos I could purchase two complete themed Malifaux gangs. Once again their rules are free on their App. And I can use whatever bases I want. And use whatever terrain I want. For $383 dollarydoos I can purchase two fairly well rounded ASOIAF armies. Once again, the rules are free on the app. Hell, for $383 dollarydoos I could purchase an Infinity Action Pack with a 300 point sectorial army ready to go and commission Angel Giraldez to paint them to a tabletop standard for me. Even Kill Team has a $257AUD buy in just for rules, tokens and tools before models get involved. That's the price of a Bolt Action Army and your choice of tank. Yes its a case of comparing apples to oranges in a market full of fruit... But thats why I think rules should be free, or a quarter of the price they are now. Its one of the reasons I walked away from 40k (persisting here coz I'm awestruck by the hobby blogs and keeping my foot in the IP with Necromunda)

Where to start... - Re-do my 3rd edition Dark Eldar army with the modern kits, but convert them to more of a Corsair or outer Commorragh region theme. Lots of individualised conversions etc. - 1 chaos gang for each god in Necromunda - 1 of each Necromunda gang - Really go deep into Inq28 / Inquisitor / Inquisimunda teritory and re-visit the late 90s era grimdark that got me into 40k in the first place - 1 of each warband type for GorkaMorka, including Muties and Diggas and Necrons for the endgame campaign. - Actually paint up and convert The Deff Skwadron - A splinter warband of the Emperor's children inspired by the audiodrama Perfection, where they look like perverse, angelic monsters with over-exaggerated efforts to be beautiful and perfect. ( Once again targeting down that Inq28 route) - An Angel's Vermilion or Angels Encarmine force where each Marine is individualised. - I go in cycles through the decades where I buy Orks then sell Orks. It's a love-hate relationship. And non-40k projects: - The Dreadfleet army of Count Noctilus - Grimgor Ironhide's Immortals from the Storm of Chaos - A Skaven Army from Clan Rictus - A Har Ganeth themed Dark Elf army compatible as a daughters of Khaine army for AoS

I've been in and out of 40k for multiple editions across several decades, so I'm pretty confident in saying this: 40k and most other GW games are extremely unbalanced. Codex creep has always been a thing. Min-maxing broken or cost efficient units has always been a thing. New models being more powerful to push their sales isn't new either. 40k was always supposed to be a fun game to push sales, not a fair one: alot of hobbyists forget that. But, this unbalance isn't new: 40k has always been unbalanced. It's the price of GW being a miniatures company who tacks on a game to sell their miniatures rather then a gaming company who uses miniatures to sell their game. The real crime is paying so much for the rules to play 40k and relying on third parties like ITC to try and "balance" the game when other companies with modern, intuitive rulesets do it for free, or at highly affordable rates. You don't realise the unbalance and flaws in game design as much until you play other gaming systems and see other ideas in this hobby. It's why I laugh when people talk about 40k competitively (but respectfully refrain from commenting 90% of the time): if you really want a more balanced or more competitive experience, try Kings of War, Bolt Action or Infinity instead.

Even compared to the more established competition, there is no disputing that GW's products are still amazing quality. And plastic! You don't know how much of a blessing plastic is to work with until you come back tonit after playing with resin and metal for a prolonged time. I just wanted to acknowledge that first. I still keep my foot in the door with Necromunda / Inq28 and Gorkamorka as a hobby project (yeah I'm one of those hobbyists now), but I'm happy to admit that I jumped ship to other gaming systems like Infinity and won't look back. The reason for the jump was multi-factorial: * Price, as an Australian hobbyist especially, was a significant factor. I don't need to elaborate further. * GW are still selling kits that are 20+ years old and charging an arm + a leg for them. $54 AUD for 10 Catachan models, when back in 2000 you could buy 20 of the same sculpts for $40. And you need to spend a minimum of $216 AUD to fulfill your mandatory requirements for an average game of models whose sculpts are 20+ years old (yes you don't have to and can go with the slightly newer Cadian shock troops who are only 17ish years old for the same price). Yes its a testament to the quality / iconic nature of the sculpts, but GW not retiring these kits and factions hurts their game systems alot too. * The insistence by GW that you have to purchase rules and codexes. As a space marine player, I would have spent $254 AUD just on codexes since 2017. That doesn't include core books, chapter approved 2018 - 2021, chapter-specific supplements or a subscription to the warhammer app for your army builder. And honestly, the errors and need to FAQ the codexes despite that price is... Yet another flogged horse. In comparison, Corvus Belli have an app that's free for Infinity that includes your army builder and links to a free wiki site for rules. So the money you spent just on rules can almost purchase you an entire sectorial of Infinity miniatures. The money you'd actually spend on your 40k army then buys you a second army to introduce your mate to Infinity and a table of dense terrain to play on. * I've been in the hobby for 21 years. GW's gaming systems haven't changed that much in 21 years. Seeing what else is out there made me realise that there are gaming systems with different ideas. Some of those ideas are actually better ideas. The ARO system used in Infinity. The random activation mechanic introduced in Bolt Action and later adapted by Star Wars Legion and half of the tabletop games out there. These more... Interactive... gaming systems flow smoother then GW's aged back and forth play. * Concurrently, GW's hobby systems haven't changed much either in 21 years. Their paints have changed manufacturer and names a few times, and have also exponentially increased in price (and in my opinion their base and layer paints have dropped in quality.) In comparison, 3rd party hobby brands like vallejo, Scale 75 etc are price matched as an industry and often half the price of the GW equivalent. The quality of these brands are often better too pending personal taste, considering they don't just cater to wargamers. * I'm also moving away from Black Library slowly. Its obvious that bar a few diamonds in the rough that black library are books written to a release schedule these days rather then to explore the potential of the IP that is both 40k and AoS. Many of the recent books, particularly the eBook versions, feel significantly overpriced for whats essentially a miniatures catalogue as a result. So yeah... in the end I jumped ship and have decided to vote with my wallet. Multiple reasons why, but price was a significant one. [Edit] I'm happy to acknowledge that I'm not really GW's target demographic these days though: I was their demographic during the dark kirby era, which might explain alot!

This hobbyist appreciates your write up Squark. Good job in staying objective with your review. The initial starter box was $150 AUD (often discounted to $120) so I said that I would purchase Hive War if it was similarly priced. Being $250 AUD and not contributing anything new, I think I'll keep my hobby funds for something else.

I'll admit that my first experiences with Chaos were extremely negative. I got into Warhammer around 2000, and my first army in my young adolescence which I shared with my brother was Black Templars (inspired by the paint scheme of the 3rd edition starter set as well as the 2001 3rd War for Armageddon campaign). Where alot of Chaos players reminisce about the infamous 3.5 codex and how good it was both on the table and the character it had, my experience was the exact opposite: I was on the receiving end of it. Time after time. It was not an enjoyable codex to play against in the slightest. Especially with a 3rd edition space marine codex, even if it was supplemented by the Black Templars rules in Armageddon. This negative attitude was then further amplified with the outcry when the 4th edition Chaos Codex dropped. Granted it was a massive change compared to the 3.5 codex and took away alot so the outcry was justified... but the outcry didn't stop for nearly 10 years and four editions. It was a common, negative attitude on the multiple online forums, including Bolter & Chainsword. And it was really bad locally for me, with some very vocal chaos players sucking the life out of actually wanting to play warhammer. What annoyed me the most about it was the entitlement: it was a general observation that Chaos players when the 4th edition codex dropped (and persisted well towards the end of 7th edition) felt they were owed more then everyone else. It didn't matter that Dark Eldar hadn't received a codex or a new model in 13 years (prior to their revamp), or that Tyranids received an abomination of a codex for 5th edition that almost made them unplayable, or that Necrons were using a 3rd edition codex right until their revamp at the end of 5th edition... it was that Chaos was so hard done by. They wanted to the Matt Ward treatment, because they deserved it. Suffice to say, it annoyed me. However, my attitude changed. I realised my issue wasn't with the faction: it was with the players. What led me to that realisation was a number of factors: - Novels. AD-B's Night Lords trilogy was my first true foray into Chaos in a narrative prose, and suffice to say, it changed my opinion very quickly. This was followed shortly by Storm of Iron by Graham Mcneil, then the Word Bearers Trilogy by Anthony Reynolds, the Ahriman Trilogy by John French and the Black Legion duo by AD-B. I was also concurrently reading the Horus Heresy books and these served to highlight that Chaos weren't just moustache twirling villains who were thwarted by the Imperium every time they set out from the Eye: They were a faction with distinct individualism and character. - Forge World: The Siege of Vraks and the Badab War. The Siege of Vraks extensively detailed how a rebellion escalates into a full Chaos incursion. The Badab War further gave character to Chaos by showing the tragedy of good intentions and just how ruthless the Imperium was in its ignorance. - The Crimson Slaughter. It didn't add much to the game and was heavily criticised that it wasn't a Legion, but I really enjoyed the story of the Crimson Slaughter in their supplement. We got to extensively see, similar to the Badab War, just what leads a chapter to go renegade and the challenges they face when they do. The running theme though for me, was that individualism and character was what defined Chaos in any rendition of Warhammer and AoS. That unlike the Loyalist Chapters who were defined by their Chapter identity, the Veterans of the Long War were defined by their individualism on the path the glory. That their origins played a part of that identity, but their personal goals, vendettas, struggles and regrets defined them. And as a result, I felt there was more of a story to tell in Chaos both in narrative prose and on the tabletop. And I still stand by my opinion that Sevastus Kranon's model is one of the best in the Chaos range... a shame it is no longer available. I don't really play 40k that much anymore, but I'm reconnecting with Chaos in the Necromunda context. The character, theme and narrative of the Corpse Grinder Cults is so dark and twisted that it takes me back to the hopeless, grimdark themes from earlier editions which I feel has been... evolved in newer editions. The release of Slaanesh mortals, the Blades of Khorne and the Warcry warbands in AoS has also opened up alot of modelling opportunities for Chaos Helot cults that weren't possible without alot of work previously. So Chaos is in a great position from a hobby context in this hobbyist's opinion. 40k is still the weakest of Chaos' lineups and despite some needed new sculpts still needs alot of work, but its a great time to be in this faction from a hobby perspective. The options available now are substantially greater then they were 10 years ago, and even moreso then 20 years ago. [Edit] To end with snippet of irony, we've received alot of new toys except for what we actually want: new Khorne Berserkers, new Noise Marines and new Chosen sculpts. The Chaos gods must truly be fickle, or have a nasty sense of humour.

Its not fair to compare apples and oranges. Comparing 40k to AoS is a similar concept: both have different design philosophies and marketing philosophies. AoS releases smaller army ranges because those armies have a limited size and sales shelf life. They're also new to AoS The fluff will write them out eventually, or evolve them accordingly with time to keep sales turn over. The annual general's handbook supports that notion. 40k in comparison has 30 years of miniatures and faction development and bloat: there are a broad spectrum of kits pushing 20+ years old still being sold (termagaunts, eldar guardians and dire avengers, catachans, some chaos marine heroes, legion upgrade kits etc) because GW won't drop them. The hysteria when primaris marines were released and the imminent fear of 25 years of space marine collections becoming redundant for example. As for Chaos (and to get my post back on track), I'm one of a minority who was disappointed that GW crept backwards to the concept of Legions as defining chaos' identity in 40k. I truly despised the 3.5 codex for setting that expectation amongst the community, even if the narrative is swinging back that way with the daemon primarchs and wayward sons suddenly caring about their legions again. The difference for me from their loyalist counterparts is the individualism of chaos marines as they strode the path to glory (or damnation.) The concept of broken warbands from the rogue trader + 2nd edition era personified this. But, times change. Design philosophies change. Community expectations change. I need to get with the times. For Chaos' sake I hope they get atleast something to reflect a faction just as diverse as their loyalist counter parts. If it has to be a legion that identifies that character, then so be it.

My opinion is Kill Team was a rush job by GW aimed at tapping into the skirmish games target audience, rather then as an intro into 40k. Warcry felt planned as a true stand alone game. (The community cried out that they couldn't use their AoS miniatures so all hell broke loose stop gapping all of the other factions into the game though, so it wasn't perfect.) As a result Warcry features its own mechanics and campaign mechanic that's very different to AoS: a true skirmish game, designed to play in a lunch break. Kill Team on the other hand felt... Lazy. A cut and paste job of 40k rather then anything new. One may remark that it was a trial of sorts, but its also likely that it was a rush job "to produce a result" so that GW could throw its net into that skirmish gaming target audience which is dominated by the likes of Infinity and Malifaux. Granted, Kill Team if it is ever updated has the potential to be so much more, now that combat patrol has taken over the place of "introduction to 40k" (not that I believe that Kill Team was ever designed for that purpose as highlighted above.) However, based off GW's design philosophy with AoS / 40k (ie rules only for what's provided in the box) I don't think looking to necromunda or the past will entirely be accurate for a "what if" approach. Essentially, if you want that old school, complex GW skirmish game with hybrid RPG elements thats supposed to be fun rather then fair... You might as well play Necromunda. I suspect Kill Team will never go down that path

The Dark Muses are Dark Eldar who rose to such infamy that they were respected unanimously for their accomplishments. Less like gods, and more like paragons of infamy in a society of villains. But, GW regularly retcon so who knows when it matters.

I've said it before in a different thread: GW are the gateway, the dominant force in the industry... And they've overstretched themselves. Significantly. Hence their games are an inconsistent mess at the best of times. Their design and development team are stretched too thinly to keep up with demand.

Like my colleagues, I back the statement that only GW knows for sure. My personal view is that there are four additional factors at play beyond subjective popularity and sales: I agree with my colleague's previous statements about the learning curve with Dark Eldar: they are an amazing army, but not a forgiving one when things start to turn on you, Dark Eldar aren't in the spotlight of the 40k setting: they are small fish compared to the current narrative forerunners, GW as a company have over-stretched themselves, and There's more revenue in releasing new kits then cyclically revamping old kits. (more evident in AoS's release schedule then in 40k) Despite being the juggernaught of the industry, and the gateway into tabletop wargaming, its safe to say that GW have overstretched themselves: GW have more gaming systems then other tabletop wargaming companies have miniature lines (40k alone has more space marine factions with rules then privateer press has factions full stop) and their design + development and production teams probably haven't grown to the size they need to be in order to supply the demand. I still find it hilarious that the revamped Dark Eldar are still considered "new" by 40k players, despite a good portion of their plastic kits being 9 - 11 years old now. Granted, there are GW ranges still being sold that are much, much older so its all relative to a frame of reference. Compared to other tabletop wargaming companies who revamp their lines every 5 - 10 years, its probably one of the big criticisms on GW's part (but also a complement in the respect that their kits hold up in quality and detail longer then most of their competitors.) There's also the remnants of the lessons learned from the Kirby era too at play, that's more prevalent in AoS then 40k: selling "new" is more profitable then revamping older kits. When dollar symbols and profit margins are at stake, a brand new line of Primaris Marines that slot into current Space Marine collections (but everyone has to buy because they are new and the rules are biased in their favour) are likely substantially more profitable then releasing plastic for the already existing Dark Eldar finecast kits. I think this is wrong, because in doing so they actually harm the sales of the neglected lines further, but I'm just a hobbyist: I don't see the business side of things. So yeah... I don't think its a matter of popularity on its own: Dark Eldar are certainly popular. [Made some edits. Didn't like how it read the first time]

For $500 AUD, I'd be lucky to buy 3 primaris intercessor squads, 2 space marine characters and 7 paints. I'd be painting woth my fingers, and using nails for fine details. So just the mandatory requirements for a battalion. And they want to raise the prices again...

I always enjoyed the established concept of a tech-priest in orbit, plugged into his noosphere, playing chess with his pawns and balancing the cost in Skitarii lives like they were a budget to be balanced. It worked well in the Tech-Priest novel and the Mechanicus game on Steam, emphasising that step away from humanity that the Mechanicus are. Where the 7th edition codexes fell flat with their canticles and battle rites was actually capitalising on this concept: the thought that you, the player, were the HQ choice pulling the strings but not physically is an awesome one. Tis a shame it never took off. If you were to shrink the scope though because you desperately needed a HQ choice, read the Word Bearers trilogy and Titanicus. Plenty of inspiration for Skitarii, albeit not really fitting in with modern miniature designs.