crownedzoidberg

What I could imagine is wardens as a bodyguard unit for your characters, being able to heroically intervene to your Shield-Captain's aid or take wounds for their captain.

What I see almost everybody play is: Trajan, Bike-Captain and Vexila (Trajan gives you extra ~3 CP, a reroll 1s to wound and the niche heroic intervention aura ->useful stuff, I will play him above 500 points) 1-2 Squads of Guard, with a majority having Sword and Board to babysit objectives. (If you have FW models, at least one Sagittarus for your home-objective and fire support) What follows is a matter of preference and playstile - and your opinion on Forgeword models. You could run a bike-heavy list (as seen in the TTT video, don't let this determine your opinion on bikes please), Foot-Stodes featuring Terminators (FW or not) and some Venatari (FW) (John Lennon played this list recently on AoW), as many Telemon Dreadnoughts (FW) that can fit in your purse A general rule should be unlocking all your stratagems: Don't spam units but rather have a variety to have more strats and tactics for every situation. This is obvioulsy easier said than done, especially as a new player.

I don't think it's that custodes are too fragile. It seems that Stig(?) didn't really protect his custodes that well. The Ogryns/Bullgryns massacred him (thanks to Spiders rolling) - I wouldn't have put the Vexila in combat. The Bike-Captain didn't do enough IMO. It's hard to argue if he would have been better on the other side of the board, giving up the 5 primary points. The out of position Psyker should have been killed. Stig put his 2 Bike blobs and Allarus in the center, without much Impact it feels like. Why not flank with them, sniping away the Psyker, bringing over the Bike-Captain for rerolls? With Custodes I am thinking way more binary than I would with other armies. If you play high mobility models (Termis and Bikers), which are your most expensive - why do you babsysit the same objective with all of them? Do you guys think he played well?

I use the wardens for regular guardians, since Custodes Boxes are pretty hard to get by in germany right now.

I would suggest swapping the Wardens for Allarus Terminators, giving you a bit more stratagems to use and technically being foot-stodes too. (Strat to snipe cheap characters/snipers). I haven't seen wardens at all and doubt that they're a good designated Hammer. If you got access to Forgeworld, swap 1 guard squad for Sagittarus Custodians - great babysitter for your home objective and decent range. They are treated as some of the best custodes units right now.

in 8th, they simply costed the same as acolytes and gave you the choice of filling your eliteslots for detachments fairly easy (even easier than it is for gsc now). The Vigilus Detachment to reroll charges in metamorph-range (was it so? i can't recall) was a neat little buff.

Ridgerunners are superfast 14" and do have a pre-game scout move, if you don't deploy them as a blip. They are too cheap not to run. The Hivecult Warlord Trait gives a nice 6" Aura of rerolling 1s to hit while shooting. Many players give this to a warlord to hide between the buggies. Chilling Efficiency (HIVECULT) adds another +1 to hit with shooting on an already wounded unit for 2CP. In sum: Alphus marks a target, hopefully wounds it, giving it +1 to shoot, enabling the +1 to shoot stratagem - suddenly you have a wave of ridgerunners having BS2+ rerolling 1s within your warlords and alphus' Aura.

An absolutely essential objective which I take every game is Deploy Scramblers. It's super easy to get if you aren't playing on the smallest board size. It's an easy 10 pts. Engage On All Fronts - I usually get 6 pts out of it, which is okay. I put this in the same category as Linebreaker and use either/or depending on board size and my opponents' armies footprint and mobility. Domination goes here, too. While We Stand We Fight - hit or miss. I will never choose this vs. Marines. Nothing survives unless my opponents wants it to. You can meatshield your Patriarch (if you run him, he'll be the most expensive model) with lots of troops which are morale immune and put 1-2 expensive models in Cult Ambush, that is a big plus. I am planning my next game: 1000 pts against a super fast and elite Night Lords list. Normally I'd choose board control secondaries, but against mobility I have to give it a bit more thought than usual. If he has 2+ Psykers Abhor the Witch might arguably be better than Assassinate... How did it go: We played a new Chapter Approved 2020 Mission Pack - Mission. The map was sectioned in quarters, leaving a 9" circle in the center. 1 objective was placed in each quarter. My Secondaries: Cut off the Head, Engage on all Fronts, Deploy Scramblers Opponent: Assassinate (duh), Engage on all Fronts, I forgot his third Due to the small board size there was no easy take and hold objective that I could farm the whole game undisturbed. His screening was very good, leaving me no place to shock in his backline. I did the grave mistake of not shooting his chaos cultists with my Achilles Stubbers and wasted the shots on 2+ save Chaos Marines in Ruins... I was very lucky killing off his warlord in Turn 2 with a calculated perfect ambush with 10 barebone acolytes and an Aura-Primus, that didn't make into combat. I couldn't finish scramblers because my last eligible unit in his deployment zone was in melee engagement T5 - well played on his side. Overall I played very scared because of his warp talons and Obliterators in Deep Strike. I kept my Patrarich in the backfield for the countercharge and Neophyte-Synapse, but didn't have him in 3" range for Unquestioned Loyalty - he just shot my Warlord off with his Obliterators. Due to the board state I didn't have a good place for my magus and kelermorph to come down, ending up feeding my magus the turn after it came down. Using 1 of my Ridgerunners (which killed both obliterators with help of a smite - nice rolls!) to keep his rhino in melee combat helped me denying him Engage pts but also hindered me killing his screen. In the end we had a perfectly even score of 53:53 Primaries in turns: 5-5-10-15 Secondaries: 10 Cut Off The Head, 8 Engage On All Fronts, 0 Deploy Scramblers Good game, I am still very scared of high mobility armies.

Stormshield-Guard in Cover won't have a 0+ save. They have an inherent 2+, the stormshields ignore 1 AP (recent FAQ). Also keep in mind, that an unmodified save roll of 1 always fails - Meaning a guard with Stormshield in cover will have a 2+ save and ignore up to 2 AP. In case you meant that with 0+ save, sorry for misunderstanding. I just don't think the "0+ save" term describes what actually happens in an understandable way for new players.

I have also started buying some custodes off ebay - It seems to be an easy to play, hard to master army with a lot of new toys and rules. I come from Genestealer Cult so I thought this would be the perfect opposite to my collection. What I got so far: - 6 Allarus Custodians - mixed axes and spears - 3 Dawneagle Jetbikes - either for Shield Commanders or Vertus Praetors - 5 Custodian Guard - Sentinel Blade and Stormshield I plan to run a more infantry-heavy footslogging list. What is great that you can use your models in multiple ways especially if you magnetize your models. A Vexilus is just a Guard-Model with a banner. It really feels like you could play any model and variety just adds to your toolbox, unlocking more strats for the right situation. The Stormshield-Guard is a great tanky unit for your backfield, that just won't budge. Board control is a big weakness for custodes afaik. Coming from GSC, where there's a few traps in the codex (pun intended) it feels like you can't go wrong with any choice as custodes. Everything is playable and you can pack a decent punch even by just picking the models/weapons you like the most.

That's what I'm doing currently. I only have important deepstriking units in Cult Ambush (Sawcolyte Squad, Kelermorph, Support Characters) and maybe 1-2 other units depending on my opponent. If he's squishy, I put one of my 5 man Flamer-Acolytes in Deepstrike to contest an objective - if he's got a single Model with high output, i put my Mind Control - Magus into Ambush. It's quite fun to build your ambush before every game and have that swiss-army knife of utility available. Twisted Helix is so good for that board presence heavy playstile. Your early game reach improves quite alot just because of those extra 2". I tend to build my armies' weapons around that too. I have a shotgun/Flamer Neophyte Squad for early Truck assault, no Mining Lasers but 2 Grenade Launchers in each of my other Neophyte Squads.

Totally agreeing here - prominence should resemble strength in terms of creeds. I have played my first game of Twisted Helix and it feels amazing. We played a 1250 pts game. Having a Squad of Neophytes to advance a potential 14" in your first turn is so helpful. I also tested the clearance incinerator on the Rockgrinder - I never rolled higher than 4 hits with it. Too bad the Truck can't have a Flamer. It also feels weird to put a Squad of Aberrants into the Rockgrinder, it's just way too big of a risk. Pick-Aberrants didn't really work for me against IG Scions - the only good target for them being bullgryns which my Patriarch was designated to. My 4 Sawcolyte Squad killed a Tank Commander on the dot with the Primus' buffs - that felt amazing. Funny enough, I value the Ridgerunners Stubbers higher than their Lasers. 2 of them can kill a 5 man Squad of T3 models quite easily. I am still trying to figure out, what models to get going forward (1500 pts). I might go up on Ridgerunners, maybe having 2 squads of 2. Pick Aberrants would need so much support to put a dent into T7 (helix psychic ability, Biophagus), that I would probably not run them at all. Hammerants feel so expensive when compared to Jackals with demolition charges. Is my math correct here? 5 Jackals with Demo charges does 11,6 avg dmg against t7? Even more if I can get Drive-by Demolitions by forming an extra (mixed) detachment to get the rusted claw creed. 3 CP total in combination with Lying in Wait, getting close enough to throw grenades, hitting on 3s, wounding mostly on 3s aswell and then moving as if it was the movment phase - does that mean the can advance back into safety aswell? I love Flamer Acolytes and I will probably increase the # of models in a squad to wound MEQ reliably.

MSU: I'm a big fan of 5 man Acolyte Squads with Hand Flamers, generating around 9 (T3) or 6 wounds (T4) the moment they come out of deepstrike. Sorry for my poor mathhammering. You steal a poorly guarded objective or do your scrambler deploy - great value and utilty for mere 50 points. At 2k points I might want to add 1-2 SU of Metamorphs as a cheap reroll-bubble, that is if you made a custom creed with Devout Worshippers. You could also get the special detachment, giving the same reroll bubble to an Iconward, but I have never seen that guy useful in the front lines. It feels weird to have him babysit 10 sawcolytes while he could give the FNP and Morale Reroll to your ~3 Squads of screening Neophytes in the back. I am a sucker for Bladed Cog (hue), Overthrow the Opressors, giving extra attacks on 5+ against Marines, drastically improving the power of rending claws and rocksaws in your list. I am not satisfied with the creeds of 8th, they are way too specializied without the option to mix and match with detachments. At 1000 points I can't afford wasting CP on 2 different cult creeds. Have you guys tested custom creeds?

@Akrim - Yeah I suppose it's a question of belief and what works for you after all. I added 2 SU Acolytes for objective holding and stealing, either putting them on the table from the start or having them as a backup depening on my opponent and the missions. I haven't seen Metamorphs as worth the points after the increase. Beforehand they costed close to the same as Acolytes and it was mostly a matter of what type of unit you need for your detachment. Does 1 unit of Metamorphs get the reroll charge themselves or would you need 2 units hugging each other to receive the reroll Aura?

@Rogue - Nah, I didn't take it as such. I was calling myself one. So, the new wave of FAQ's are out - bringing the 12" Flamer and D2 Heavy Bolter to the armies. We already talked about an Acolyte Bomb that can deepstrike & flame on without the investment of CP, but what do you think about the Bolter Change? The best Platforms I can think of are Leman Russes and Chimeras, latter one hasn't seen much play due to its lacking GSC Support (Transport 12 - Brood Brothers only), but costs 90 ish pts for rhino statline. Afaik there isn't any infantry Model that benefits from Bladed Cog (Move and Shoot Heavy without Penalty) and can carry one - bummer.

Really depends on what you want to do and what models you like. If these are the models you already have and want to play - go for GSC. All that matters is that you got enough models/wounds on the table. If you want to play Tyranids or Genestealer Cult effective, you will have to go hard on horde and use the model count as an advantage to secue objectives. Your opponent won't be able to clean the board and compete on objectives in time. This means tons of Terma-Horma-gants for Nids, Neophytes and Acolytes for Cult. If you like Purestrain Genestealers, you will probably have to go for Nids, just because there's kraken for extra mobilty. Sadly Genestealers don't get much beneficial synergies in Genestealer Cult. GSC are one of the hardest armies to start 40k, but it might be rewarding to fight against the odds and prove the statistics wrong.

Yeah, split those Genestealers in 2 Troops, add in a unit of Ripper swarms. They are a cheap objective holder,screening unit and are already inside your Box of Genestealers or Warriors.

Yeah, the bullgryns had 1 Model with the invuln shield - he saved 3/4 attacks and the return dmg killed me exactly. Some might say it was jinxed. Wow, yeah I am a cheating bastard. I will find the newest rule text of MO and put it into my rulebook.

I did quite well in a 1k game against Tempestus Scions. Having lots of units on the ground, taking objectives and secondaries gave me an early point advantage that my opponent couldn't catch up to. Stacking Bladed Cog and an Iconward on 2-3 Units of Neophytes/Acolytes feels really good. The Ridgerunners did amazing work with their lasers. Mental Onslaught killed 2 units of scions for me, which was great. I did some stupid mistakes when I got into melee, losing my Patriarch to 3 Bullgryns and not splitting my Attacks well between a character and Taurox with my 4 Saw Squad. All in all it felt great having a normal "balanced" game of 40k where I do partake in decisionmaking. Edit: My secondaries were Assassinate (3 Characters for Opponent), Domination (scored each time), Deploy Scramblers (Super Easy for GSC)

Really great points there! I checked out the patreon-podcast of the Art of War about GSC with the same result. Less Cult Ambushes, MSU starting on the board and working yourself across the board with +2 Advance as twisted Helix or in some Transports. One Hammerant and Sawcolyte (working title) - Bomb, hidden in the shadows, but that's it. I haven't had success with playing horde yet, since I haven't used target saturation or LOS to my advantage - well, sucks even more if there isn't even LOS-breaking terrain to begin with. This is my agenda for the next training games: Learn what it means to be a suqishy horde army, place way more infantry on the board and play the objective. Gather redundancy for scoring points, not kills.

Yeah, so my game didn't go well at all. We played a tag-team match of 2k points. I played with necrons against Tempest Scions and Imperial Fists. Our Fists player brought 2 redemptor dreadnoughts and 1 squad of centurions, which he put into the captain and lieutenant bubble. He was also the guy that put down terrain (check picture) which wasn't enough at all. Imperium got turn one and deleted our left flank out of existence. The shooting that was left from my part didn't do enough and shaved off some scions, bullgryns wounds (which held N and W objective) and about 1-2 tactical marines NE - pretty shameful shooting. The Rhino was my Goliath Truck proxy - it held it's ground but dropped down turn 2 under the fire of the Melta-Squad that jumped out of the Plane (forgot the name). We abandoned the game at turn 2 bottom because I couldn't deepstrike anywhere that mattered and out of sight of the deathstar our Marine player built. Shotgun guys were okay, I rolled poorly though - will definitely try them again! What I can learn from this game: Charges on 9" are so unreliable and at those low point games I want 2 charges a turn. I might need CO4AE or a Deliverance Broodsurge if I really want to step up my Assault Phase. Don't let the Deathstar-Marine Player place the terrain without checking the board 360° - and maybe don't invite him next time ;-) Don't change your list too drastically after one obliteration. Go through changes systematically. PAINT MORE MINIS!

I'm preparing for more games in the future and still don't know how I'm going to transition from 1k to 2k points. This weekend I'm playing a broodcoven, 2 10 man Acolyte squads with a truckload of saws, 3 10 man Neophyte squads, a Truck and a Ridgerunner. I had leftover points for a bunch of upgrades, because I don't own any elite models yet - the Sanctus or Kelermorph cost CP to be effective due to the required relic or Lying in Wait - Stratagem, that's why I feel uncomfortable getting some for 1k points. I will probably reduce the acolytes to ~5 models and 2 saws each to increase my count on Ridgerunners - depending on how my firepower feels. What I want to figure out is: Can a Shotgun/Flamer Neophyte squad in a Truck be a good and hasty objective-stealer? How many saws is too much within a 10 man Acolyte squad? How well are my Mental Onslaught - rolls? Currently running a Bladed Cog Battalion to give my scoring units more survivability, above 1k I will definitely form a second more melee-focused detachment and put an Iconward in there. Also I want to add that it's a shame an Acolyte Box only has 1 Rocksaw. I'm currently stalking ebay to buy off any leftover bits I can find.

I spent some time mathhammering the :cuss out of Leman Russ weapons and came to the conclusion that the Punisher cannon with its heavy 20 range 24" is quite nice for what I need it to do. Against Invuln saves it is uncomparable to the other options and this is where I lacked with damage in the first place. If I used the power of math correclty, I can put out 10 Wounds on a t7 4++ target, given Range, Grinding Advance, Tank Order: "Gunners, kill on Sight!" and the 1CP to give out the same Order to the other Russ. Obviously I will have a worse time against high toughness targets that have a good armor save that are outside of my effective 29" range, but I am willing to take a loss there. This is my current list, 1001 points: For deployment I will try to manage to zone off one full flank and corner myself in the other, granting the morale reroll and FNP with my Iconward on the two Neophyte Squads. It should look about this:

If I cut the guardsmen I would lose the patrol detachment, which is making my army illegal for matched play.

Thanks for replying! How do I want my army to win - like - what my winning strategy is? I figured the best way would be immobilizing fast attack units and transports first with the Leman Russ' tanks. I am not certain, if I can manage to crack open a Rhino, but generally killing open-fielded objective-holders are priority targets for the Russ' Heavy Bolters and all Neophyte weaponry. I really like the Idea of an assaulty- Neophyte Squad, that is inside a Goliath Truck. I can send it off into the midfield, maybe even locking a unit in close combat. Neophytes could jump out the following turn and making themselves useful with shotguns and flamers (wish scenario). OR the neophytes get out the Truck in turn 2, secure an objective; the Truck is moving to charge a unit that one of my CA- units is planning to charge. I don't know if that's better than a second Russ, that sort of achieves the same role: being a distraction for my opponent while killing infantry with its heavy bolters and transports with its battle cannon. I worked on another List and maybe you can tell me what you think: By using a Brood Brother Detachment I am able to get a sweet LR Tank Commander with BS 3+ that can give Tank Orders within 6" to one friendly LR. This can either be a weird charge command, which I will probably never use; shooting and popping smoke launchers; or rerolling 1s to hit. With Grinding Advance I can definitely put out some wounds and do, what my Truck hasn't really done the recent games. Cool sidenote: Militarum HKM are just 6 points. Each CA unit is in company of a Primus - I cut the Patriarch for now - to guarantee a higher CA roll for both teams, since they probably want to ambush both on turn 1. It might be a bit redundant, depending on the battlefield, since both Prmuses be in range of each other. I added a 3rd HQ in form of a Magus for now, who could do a solo CA and pop up anywhere for Smite, Deny power or Mass hypnosis. I also like the Idea of an Iconward aswell, for 1strength, the 6+ FNP and Morale reroll, I can't really decide. EDIT2: With 20 Neophytes in the back (Guardsmen don't get the 6+++ unfortunately), an Iconward might be quite useful. I could sandwich the Iconward between my LR to give heroic intervention support - my Tau friend reminded me of that. With that, a person who is trying to get both LR in combat, will probably end up within 3" of the Iconward. The following turn I can atleast fall back with both LR and still have my opponent locked in melee combat if I need to. EDIT: With more points I can add a Goliath Truck and do exactly what I talked about at the start, while still having the 2 LR. Maybe Sentinels can also work well, being a zoning and distraction tool and/or flaming away infantry.