LSM

My main thought with the possible Oblivion Marine enhancement would be to help with WYSIWYG. I know plenty of people are just running him as a Lord Kakophonist, but his combi-guitar doesn't really have the right look for a Screamer Pistol + Power Sword (or two Screamer Pistols). In an actual datasheet, I agree that he should be an aura character. (Probably just armed with a Bolter or Combi-Weapon, etc. But I still like the Power Axe joke.) As for giving weapons [Assault], that's covered by Thrill Seekers allowing everything to Advance and Shoot already. (I also solely want such an enhancement because the words 'Sonic Juice' amuse me - the name is non-negotiable. ;P)

While I love most of what the EC release has done, one glaring omission to me is that lack of a Detachment focussed on Noise. As such, I had been brainstorming some loose ideas on the sort of thing I'd like to see, and thought it'd be better with some collaboration amongst all the fine folks here. (Especially from those who manage to actually hit the table with some regularity.) (Part of me does still hope we see a 'Grotmas in July' bonus EC Detachment... whatever happened to that "Murderous Orchestra" reference that Alex brought up in the LVO video?) The three main components of a Detachment being Detachment Rule, Enhancements, and Strategems, they seem like a good way to organise things. // DETACHMENT RULE One of the things I'd want to note, in a Sonic Cult detachment, is that the focus shouldn't just be on Noise Marines. In the previous lore, the Sonic Cult had been taking over all aspects of the Legion - the Kakophoni and Orchestrators being the overt example, but key to their existence was the Fleshcrafters, and the Palatine Blades, Phoenix Terminators, and line-troops were all getting sensory modifications and sonic improvements as well. So I'd like to see there not be too narrow of a focus. Two of the things to take inspiration from (for me) would be the 2002 Codex, as well as the rules for the Horus Heresy legion. I'll note the latter first, where they have had two Rites of War: the Maru Skara, and the IIIrd Company Elite. The Maru Skara represented the "classic" Emperor's Children way of war - well disciplined, combined arms tactics that relied on the army acting in perfect concert... so that's out. The IIIrd Company Elite, on the other hand, represented the emerging Emperor's Children style, which was said would become "emblematic" of the Legion - Kakophoni could be taken as Troops, and all Infantry (not just the Palatine Blades and Phoenix Terminators) could take Surgical Augments (ie. Sonic Shriekers, Sonic Lances, or Sub-Sonic Pulsers). Sub-Sonic Pulsers merely let you ignore Night Fighting drawbacks, Sonic Lances are low Strength template weapons that pin enemies and have ~[Devastating Wounds], and Sonic Shriekers give -1 To-Hit to enemies when Charged or Charging. (Note: in HH 1.0, only Sonic Shriekers were available, and gave +1 Initiative in the first round of combat.) Later, Exemplary Battles Vol 1 would add three more "Debased Augments": Abhorrent Sensoria (~[Precision]), Sublingual Glands (template weapons, wound on 2+, reduce enemy WS/BS), and Warp Scream (a bonus attack on the Charge with ~[Devastating Wounds]). The reason that the other thing I'd go back to is the 2002 Codex is that it was the last time we had full rules for an Emperor's Children force who were conceptually all Noise Marines. In that book, the Mark of Slaanesh gave the ability Warp Scream. (Not to be confused with the HH ability of the same name.) The fluff described it as a piercing scream that blurred the borders between reality and the warp, disorientating opponents. (Every enemy within engagement range is at -1 Initiative.) So: basic kicker to the Detachment rule: Noise Marines gain the <BATTLELINE> keyword. And then primarily, I'd go for some sort of Warp Scream/Sonic Shriekers effect. When enemy units within Engagement Range of an Emperor's Children Battleline unit target that unit for an attack, subtract 1 from the Hit roll. [If this seems too much, perhaps add when Charged/Charging, though I think that might just clutter things to little effect. Alternatively, as there is no Initiative in the game any more, recent Codexes attempted to ape the old Warp Scream effect by giving a blanket Slaanesh-wide Fights First. Giving that to EC Battleline could be a solid option as well. I think that either will help with the survivability of close-range shooting units, allowing them to still be around to Fall Back and find new targets.] // ENHANCEMENTS Of the four Enhancements, two would obviously be taken by those found in the 2022 Codex: Fatal Sonancy and Remnant of the Maraviglia. Fatal Sonancy was basically a way to give a character an amped up ~Doom Siren. (End of Movement Phase, enemy unit within 12", 6d6, on a 4+ deal a MW.) Arguably, the Lord Kakophonist's Doom Siren ability has taken on a version of this, but I still think it should be generally available (to a Lord Exultant/Daemon Prince/Sorcerer) in this sort of Detachment. I'd suggest moving it to the Shooting Phase, and making its use be instead of Shooting with a ranged attack. Remnant of the Maraviglia was a once-per-battle use, which increase the Attacks characteristic of Core/Character models within 6" by 1. Would probably transfer over as the bearer and their attached unit getting +1 to the Attacks characteristic of equipped Melee Weapons (once-per-battle). As for the other two, one thing I'd like to see is some sort "Power Axe", as a nod to the previous The Noise Marine model. (I'm still holding out hope that next edition the model can come back as a D-Rokker or Oblivion Marine character datasheet.) I think I'd try to work it as: Emperor's Children Infantry model (or perhaps just the Lord Kakophonist), increase the range of one Screamer Pistol equipped by this model from 12" to 24" (representing the Bolter-ness of the original-look Sonic Blaster) but remove the [Pistol] keyword, and increase the Damage of one Power Sword equipped by this model by 1 (if applicable). A fourth possibility would be what I'd like to call Psychosonic Overdrive. Each time this model's unit is selected to shoot, it can use this ability. If it does, until the end of the phase, its ranged weapons have the [Devastating Wounds] and [Hazardous] abilities. Beyond that, I'd like the possibility of something to maybe make a Sorcerer worth taking? I'd knocked around giving them and their unit Deep Strike, or perhaps a once-per-game Remove from the battlefield and place in Strategic Reserve + for the purposes of setting up Strategic Reserves, can count the Battle Round as one higher. (Using the thinned reality of the Sonic Cult to skip around.) I also like the idea of something like Fleshcrafter Tools, allowing a character to return wounds to a unit (or a FNP, though I personally like to minimise FNPs). I miss the old Stimulated By Pain (for each Wound lost, add an Attack, up to +3) though it's not inherently Noisy. The 6th edition Symphony of Pain psychic power could maybe be reworked (enemy gets -1 WS/BS and shooting is at +1 S against them). Some of the HH Augments could also inspire options. Finally, part of me wants an Enhancment called 'Sonic Juice', though I'm not sure what it would do. // STRATEGEMS Need six, and the first up would have to be Endless Cacophony. I'm not a big fan of "shoot again" though, so... maybe when one unit has shot an enemy unit, a different EC Battleline unit may also make a shooting attack at that enemy unit (ignoring Thrill Seekers restrictions, and not counting as their regular attack for that phase), but only hitting on 6's. (Like a weird Overwatch.) Or just "shoot again", but only hitting on 6's? As for the other five, if Endless Cacophony is just a "shoot again" type thing, then I'd definitely want a 'strat that is some sort of "EC Battleline units can ignore the Thrill Seeker restrictions". Maybe call this Murderous Orchestra? I'd like something like a Shooting Phase version of Death Ecstasy - don't remove casualties, instead those models may shoot as if it was their Shooting Phase, then remove them. (Might pair nicely with Psychosonic Overdrive, if like Hellblasters it's explicit that models killing themselves via [Hazardous] are affected.) Rapturous Demise? A reference to the original Noise Marine rule - Psychic Cacophony - could be nice. I'd rename it to Psychic Dissonance (to avoid confusion with Endless Cacophony), and maybe just make it that all weapons equipped by an enemy unit with the <Psychic> keyword gain [Hazardous] for the phase. The Photon Flash Flares could also inspire a stratagem (though part of me wants to tie it to <Grenades>, Noise Marines don't have them). Maybe give [Stealth] to a Grenades unit? (Something for the non-Noise Marines.) In the Index Chaotica, much was also made about the modified shells that Noise Marines used in their Bolters - which scream, shriek, and howl to a mad rhythm unappreciated by those who don't worship the Dark Prince. A Boltgun Choir that could effect Tormentor/Infractor 'Bolt Weapons' in some way ([Sustained Hits 2]? Improved AP? Shoot twice?). Older edition's Warp Amplifier could be pulled in, to allow EC Vehicles to lower the leadership of nearby enemies. Excruciating Frequencies in 9th gave a unit ~[Devastating Wounds] plus no Overwatch for enemies hit... so maybe just force a unit hit in the Shooting Phase to take a Battleshock Test? Stealing 'Point Blank Destruction' from Fellhammer Siegeforce could also be an option. (Ranged Weapons gain the [Pistol] keyword.) Pit Slamming. // Those are some of the thoughts I've jotted down over the last few days; I'm interested in what other people can cook up.

Looking at the Flawless Blades sprues, there are 4 of the 'Broadsword+open hand' and 4 of the 'dual swords' (per 3 models). (I have to assume that the sculptor intended for those to be two different weapon options.) 3 heads, 3 shoulder pads (1 EC, 1 boring, 1 fancy), and 2 optional belt grenades (per 1 model). // The ninth (and final) helmet can also be seen curtesy of Vincent Knotley. (Very Tormentor-y.)

Correct. 18 maximum Noise Marines in a EC/CSM army, and you'll have to rebase them to be on 40mm bases. (Plus 3 Kakophonists in EC.) Though as the second design article noted: "Noise Marines are equivalents to Havocs: long-range support fighters... Before this release, Noise Marines were the core infantry alongside Chaos Space Marine Legionaries. Tormentors and Infractors now become the core infantry of the Emperor’s Children." Noise Marines aren't the core of the Emperor's Children anymore. // Flipping through Fulgrim, and a little passage that struck me (with its description of Lucius, primarily): At the forefront of the Emperor’s Children, Lord Commander Eidolon and the swordsman Lucius led a contingent of their warriors into the heart of the enemy, killing with wondrous displays of bladework and howling shrieks of raw sonic power. The swordsman danced through the battle, his Terran blade carving a screaming, bloody path as he laughed in time with music only he could hear. Marius Vairosean and his orchestra of damnation ploughed the bloody sand with their terrifying harmonics, ripping open flesh and metal with shrieking chords and howling scales. In contrast, Julius Kaesoron took little part in the fighting, expending his energies in the mutilation and defilement of the corpses left in his brother’s wake. Trophies of flesh hung from his armour, each violation he wreaked on the flesh of the enemy more extreme than the last. Going forward, my head-canon for how Lucius sounds: A nod to his Noise Marine-ness, which is no longer recognised.

I didn't play in 2nd edition, so have no lived experience. From what I've heard, ranged was better than melee in general (due to the way that models had to fight models, rather than units fighting units). I could theoretically see an edge case for taking a trio of naked Noise Marines if you commonly faced psykers though, just for the Psychic Cacophony bubble. Jes Goodwin's '95 sketch also had a basic BP+CCW Noise Marine (below), and in the '99 Codex you could replace three Sonic Blasters with Doom Sirens (plus the Noise Marine's Aspiring Champion automatically lost their Sonic Blaster, replaced with BP+CCW+Doom Siren). So I'll still push back against the notion that Noise Marines were previously just guys wailing on their 'Blasters. (Not to mention the 2002-2024 era.) (Note: for the current kit, I wish there was no Disharmonist, and instead 2-of-6 could be given Blastmasters or Screamer Pistol+Power Sword. Then I'd make the Blastmaster not be a pure upgrade over the Sonic Blaster, such that there were use cases where someone might theoretically want to take an entire unit of 'Blasters. Maybe increase the Range/Strength/AP/Damage on the Single Frequency but make it a single shot, and then drop the Strength and AP on the Varied Frequency. Then I'd remove their 'Close Combat Weapon' (A3 WS3+ S4 AP0 D1) and replace it with 'Doom Siren' (A1 [Sustained Hits 2] WS3+ S5 AP-1 D2) and give the Power Sword the [Extra Attacks] keyword. Oh, and then make them [Battleline], or at least provide a detachment that does so.)

Not much, no. Though characters like Eidolon (who in The Path of Heaven self-identified as the man who had embraced the Sonic Cults more than any other) consider Fulgrim to be the one that led them to the truth of Slaanesh. Eidolon wouldn't be such a (pre-2016) Noise Marine if not for following Fulgrim's lead. And I guess Slaves to Darkness does have this bit: Fulgrim stared at him, contempt burning in the gaze. Then he shook his hair out and tilted his head back. His throat rippled. Wet red gills opened. Pouches of skin inflated. Fulgrim called into the abyss. It had no true sound, but reality blurred and vibrated as its silent note rose. Actaea flinched, head twitching as blood ran from her ears. The blade slaves growled, the teeth of their swords grinding. Layak heard it in his mind, echoing across his link with the daemon. It was a command, a call to gather like the cry of a wolf to its pack. Sensations and images came with it, fragments of nightmares and joy: the taste of a fruit picked just as it ripened, the gasp of someone dying in strangled terror, the warmth of flesh against the razor’s edge. Out the call went, piercing time and space. It vibrated through the gene-laced blood of Fulgrim’s bastard sons. On his throne Eidolon heard it, and blood flooded the whites of his eyes. In the sound-drowned ruins of Nus, Glorocletian, Apex of the Crescendio, heard the cry over the sounds of shattering stone and the screams of the dying. On Netis’ black sands, Lucius looked up from the scattered limbs on the ground beneath his sword. The faces on his armour swirled and echoed the call. In a thousand places of suffering, the children of the Emperor heard and raised themselves from the pleasure of their slaughter. They rose with bitterness in their hearts, with joy, with apathy, but rise they did. Ships broke from the orbits of mutilated worlds. Scattered fleets came about as they rode the frayed remnants of the Ruinstorm. From across the burning Imperium, the Emperor’s Children heeded the demand, and the promise, of their primarch. Mmmhhmmm. On the one hand, I tend to use "Noise Marine" as a catch-all for the aesthetics (beyond wielding Sonic Weapons). This stems from the 2002 Codex being foundational to my love of Noise Marines and The Emperor's Children - as you note, they don't wield Sonic Weapons as default in that Codex, so to me Sonic Weapons aren't integral to Noise Marines. (Though they don't wield Sonic Weapons as default in the '96, '02, '07, '12, '17, or '22 Codexes; just in the '99 and '25 ones. And in their '91 WD rules - where they were reasonably Bolter-esque - and the '93 Black Codex - where they were Storm Bolters, rules wise.) So when I say that I wish Fulgrim was more Noise Marine-ish, I don't mean as some (post-2016) stoner lugging around a pair of Sonic Blasters, strung out on the Song of Slaanesh. I mean superfluous voxes, chains, studs, leathers, straps, drug lines, canisters of who-knows-what, etc. Manic tweeker sensorian stuff. The rest of the line features that "classic Noise Marine aesthetic", as I think of it; objectively I think Fulgrim should too. He leads the faction, he should share in its tropes. // On the other hand... I do wish there was more "sonic-ness" in general. (Particularly in the rules.) I love the 40k Emperor's Children. I love the 30k Emperor's Children. I love how the Horus Heresy rules reflect the transition the legion was undergoing; the (pre-2016) Sonic Cult taking over here and there. Captain Lucius and the Palatine Blades - obsessive swordsmen, striving for martial perfection... who get surgical augments like Sonic Shriekers to go screaming into combat. The sculptor talks about liking the faces on Fulgrim's knees in that one book cover, and so wanting to carry it forward with the daemonic faces on Fulgrim's hip plates. But... why does that art have screaming faces on his knees? Because Noise Marines had speaker faces as a motif, and the 30k range includes bits of precursor imagery - echoes from the future... Now they've bounced back forward, sans sonic styling.

Third article is out, about Fulgrim. Thoughts: The aquatic-ness is said to be a reference to mermaids/sirens - to link to their beguiling nature in myth. (No reference to Slaanesh's previous associations to water.) "We also wanted to very strongly keep the telltale signs of his origin as both a Primarch and a Space Marine, so elements such as recognisable power armour and the backpack needed to remain intact." I've mentioned this before, but 40k Fulgrim is more power-armour-y than any other previous depiction of him has been. (Rounded shoulder pads, power pack, etc.) His previous art and models have tended to lack these features, instead having pointed shoulder pads (sometimes Cataphractii-y) and no backpack, etc. There is no mention of the classic 40k Emperor's Children aesthetic, or the (former) core concept of Slaanesh' Cult (ie Noise Marines), etc. The focus is instead on twisting the pre-Heresy Emperor's Children look. What I am a little... put-out by, is... the 30k rules take into account how the Sonic Cults were taking over, y'know? The Captain Lucius rules allow you to take him with or without the Blade of the Laer and Sonic Shriekers, allowing you to play him as he is at Isstvan III (neither) Isstvan V (Sonic Shriekers) or post- (both). Likewise, all the fancy units (Characters, Palatine Blades, Phoenix Terminators) get to take Surgical Augments (Sonic Shriekers, Sonic Lances, Sub-Sonic Pulsers) and the late Heresy, even more corrupted EC forces gain even more augments (Warp Scream, Sublingual Glands, Abhorrent Sensoria). The rest of the line managed to dodge "pre-Heresification", but it seems to have hit Fulgrim.

On Reddit there was a post mentioning that Lucius' resurrection mechanic was "very well documented" in the HH series, which... That's not how I would describe it. But it made me do a little reflection on (as far as I'm aware) Lucius' appearances in that series. I'm copying it to here (partly to keep track of it), but also to see if I've missed anything important. (Also, if anyone's read The Crimson King and has any interesting insights/notes, as that's one I haven't gotten around to.) Horus Rising: Lucius is an (enjoyably) preening prick, a superb swordsman who gets sucker punched by Loken in a duel, ruining his perfect face. False Gods: Lucius makes a brief appearance, his face now covered in massive scaring. He re-matches Loken, and dumpsters him. (They actually seem to part on reasonably good terms.) Galaxy in Flames: Lucius features extensively, including his jealousy-fuelled betrayal of the assumed-Loyalist elements being purged on Isstvan III. Fulgrim: Lucius appears a bit, and we find out that between Horus Rising and False Gods, he encountered a painter who cut herself and inspired him to take pride in his ruined visage. He begins purposefully cutting himself, retroactively explaining the change in his appearance. He also goes under Fabius' knife (for improvements), and Daemon-Fulgrim hands down the (dispossessed) Blade of the Laer to him. The Reflection, Crack'd: Lucius stars, and is at the centre of a plot to bind Fulgrim and excise the daemon that the Emperor's Children braintrust think is in possession of him. He notably muses on how the thing that makes him a great swordsman is (in contrast to most of his peers) his love of pain and the excitement he gets at the thought of death. He is also noted to have started decorating his armour with sculpted "madly screaming faces", and to have repainted it from its previous "drab and pedestrian" hues. Angel Exterminatus: Lucius features a bit, mostly paired off against Nykona Sharrowkyn. The first time they fight, Lucius is extremely excited by such a dangerous foe. He's presented as a right nutter, and also nicks a sentient whip off of one of his dying brothers. At the climax of the book, Sharrowkyn kills Lucius (having given him two new scars), and has a bit of a hackneyed line about taking no pleasure in the act. Lucius then wakes up in Fabius' lab, with Fabius having no idea how he's not dead. (Lucius scampers before Fabius can take a professional interest.) Lucius: The Eternal Blademaster: With the Emperor's Children falling apart, Lucius wonders off to challenge a Thousand Sons duellist of renown, and then gets recruited to tag along with Ahriman on a sidequest. The Crimson King: Said sidequest. [Note: I have not read this.] He apparently surfs on a Screamer of Tzeentch, and ends the novel trapped in Tzeentch's Crystal Labyrinth. Slaves to Darkness: Lucius (I suppose having freed himself from the maze) hears Fulgrim's call. (But apparently doesn't answer, as he doesn't show up in the subsequent Siege of Terra novels?) He is in the Armour of Shrieking Souls at this point, and has apparently already died a number of times (as there are enough souls in his armour for them to swirl and echo Fulgrim's galaxy-spanning scream). (I vaguely recall there being some book where Fabius Bile claims he resurrected Lucius after his death at Sharrokyn's hands, but that's in direct contradiction to the scene in Angel Extreminatus. Still worth mentioning if someone can remember where it's from...)

His serpent bits being more aquatic (referencing past associations between Slaanesh and water, similar to Steeds of Slaanesh having fins and the Daemonettes' original "lust lobster" look) is my favourite part of the new model. I was more curious about how he doesn't have: studs, leathers, straps, chains, drug lines, superfluous voxes, sonic juice canisters, etc. A lot of the classic EC aesthetic that the new range is flush with, but Fulgrim is lacking. Yeah, they're definitively not 100% consistent, but they both have that distinctive "zig-zag" kink in the blade. Basically, if I were sculpting a "Blade of the Laer", that would be the one thing that I felt I had to include. (And I was wrong - the zig-zag predates the 2013 Fulgrim model, going back to the cover art of 2007's Fulgrim.)

(In the Codex there are a couple shots of the Flawless Blades from different angles, which shows that head actually is a mask and not a helmet.) // Also: WarCom article (1 of 3) on designing the range. A couple quibbles: "This sword is the Blade of Laer, which gave us an opportunity to come up with a unique design..." Not sure that follows. His sword being The Blade of the Laer would mean that it had an established look (since 2013), lessening the inherent opportunity. "...although he’s thoroughly depraved, he still takes pride in how he treats his weapon." Lucius previously was notable for treating his weapons with callousness, which was why before being handed down The Blade of the Laer he was armed merely with "Nineteen". I'm very interested in what they'll say about Fulgrim (who strikes me as dissociated from the rest of the range).

Apologies for any confusion, I was not intending to suggest a new Chapter Master Lufgt Huron model. I was trying to speculate that it might be a new Lord Huron Blackheart sculpt, but with his Heavy Flamer looking more like his Badab War era one. (Rather than the palm-mounted one in the Tyrant's Claw, as it's been previously portrayed on his Chaos model.) (And then noting that the widdle hooks made others' suggestion of a Knight weapon far more likely.)

Huron Blackheart, maybe? Not like his Chaos model, but more reminiscent of his Badab War era look. (Though I guess the hooks are awfully small, suggesting a Chaos Knight sized weapon.)

I thought these were the Heavy Warpflamers. (They've got what looks like a fuel tank, the classic "heavy = two barrels", and the nozzles remind me of the Helbrute's Heavy Flamer - plus bird-deco). Granted they're weird, but their Meltas also look pretty weird... // Alex did say during the presentation: "One of their key features: they're psychically controlled bodyguards. They're threaded through with spells of prophecy, so they can essentially foresee attacks on their master, able to jump in the way of bullets or move them out of the way."

Did they say that they won't have [Walker], or only that they had [Vehicle]? (Most walkers have the vehicle keyword as well.)

The TS robits are smaller than I was expecting. The pose, I assume, is purposefully statue-eqsue... which I'm also not sure does them favour. A lot of cool elements though, I think they'll grow on me.

When he was created he wasn't a notable duellist; the Legion with the (early 2000s) Horus Heresy history of such (including proudly bearing their duelling scars, in the German/Austrian fashion) were the Imperial Fists. The Horus Heresy book series and other later sources definitely turned them into such a reference, but I'm not sure that's what his scars were created to be. (As opposed to cutting/self-harm imagery.)

Valrak's latest video includes whispers of the new DG Combat Patrol: Lord of Virulence Tallyman Deathshroud Bodyguard Plague Marines Rhino // (Or as 'Val said, a Lord of Virtulence and a Tallysman .) Interesting rumour with the Rhino and two characters.

I think it was originally intended to be the Dirge Caster vehicle upgrade. (The 1999 Codex had a Slaanesh-flavoured Warp Amp upgrade, which decreased enemy leadership rather brutally - <18" -1, <12" -2, <6" -3. The 2002 Codex then added the Dirge Caster as an "Undivided" upgrade - giving nearby friendly units Fearless - and still having the Slaaneshi Warp Amp; though vehicles could not be equipped with both. The 2007 Codex then did away with all the Cult vehicle upgrades - Warp Amps, Coruscating Warp Flames, Nurgling Infestations, and Destroyers - and changed the Dirge Caster to -1 to enemy leadership when Tank Shock'ing.) The Warp Amp had a rather neat conversion shown off in the 1999 Codex (that's also the Destroyer conversion in the image's top right corner:

See... I really love that take. But the Codex doesn't state that plainly - all the pieces fit, but... if that's the official line on Lucius, it needs to actually be said. The Death Guard codexes tell us that Typhus is beloved by Nurgle for playing the key part in damning his Legion, that he was honoured with becoming the Host of the Destroyer Hive, that he was disgusted with Mortarion's sentimentality and largely operates on his own - heralding misery across the galaxy. The Thousand Sons codexes tell us that Ahriman weaved his Rubric to stop the Flesh Change, it tells us that with "all-too-Tzeentchian irony" he only made things worse and was cast out by Magnus, and it tells us that with absolute conviction he believes that he can still perfect it, and pursues such ends (damn the costs). The World Eaters codex tells us that Khârn is Khorne's preeminent butcher, "seemingly slain on countless occasions" only to reappear and continue letting blood for the Blood God, believing that his Legion should not resist their inclination to berserk slaughter - to the point where he infamously fell about his fellows at Skalathrax, shattering the World Eaters and earning the name Betrayer - despite having a calm and noble bearing between such slaughtering ("a soul conflicted"). The Emperor's Children codex tells us that Lucius is a seemingly immortal swordsman of outrageous skill and egregious ego, who takes pleasure from testing himself against great champions, who associated pain with victory and carved deep grooves into his flesh with pride, who found death to be a transcendent pleasure... and is now host to a curse which resurrects him in an infuriatingly embarrassing way - shamefully wrapped for all time in those who were more skilled than him, losing his memory and giving in to insane rages to avoid introspection, shielding his pride with contempt for every other sentient being. Typhus, as noted, is a bit of the odd one out, in that he got exactly what he wanted. Ahriman is Tzeentch's plaything, but he refuses to lose hope that he can be the master of his own fate and correct what he ill-worked. Khârn thinks existence a nightmare, but it's one that he's accepted and embraced. Lucius... the first bits bring up his pleasure in pride and pain, and make claims about supreme skill. The second bits are all about how constantly humiliated he is, (implicitly) about how lacking his skill actually is. It's possible to connect the dots, as you so readily show. I think those lines really need to be in the Codex. If he dies a lot, not because he's a failure, but because he toys with his enemies, because he tries stupidly excessive things for his own entertainment ("I'm going to duel him left-handed... is only way I can be satisfied. If I use my right... over too quickly"), because he enjoys getting stabbed, because on-the-edge (where he could die) is the only place worth living, and all those "safe" duellists afraid of pain are weak cowards who will never truly better themselves as he does... that needs to be said. Not left for folks to reason out. (Also: I think "is getting hollowed out by his constant deaths and has forgotten many of his lifetimes" is at odds with "used his many lifetimes to raise his skills to almost supernatural levels".) // Power Swords ignored Armour Saves in 3rd and 4th. I'm not sure when melee weapons gained an AP stat - 5th or 6th, I assume? (I was out of the hobby at that point.)

Superpowers in general can remove dramatic tension. This comes up a lot with Superman as a character, for example - there's just so much of the normal storytelling stuff that you can't do with the character. But... Superman can produce good stories; and the type of stories that no other character (archetype) can. Writers just need to use an entirely different bag of tricks. Personally, I feel like "adding drama" to Lucius is the wrong tack. It makes him more traditionally interesting, while chipping away at his uniqueness. It's harder to write a character who's not afraid of dying - who pursues it for himself with as much passion as he does for inflicting it upon his enemies. It's harder because it's such a rare concept, and I suppose it's a rare concept because its harder. A lot of Superman writers (and basically every Wonder Woman writer) will get on the character and try to change things, or reinvent things, to make them more dramatic. Usually, I wish they had worked with the character as they were to find their inherent drama. And if a writer can't, if the character doesn't click with them, if they are unable to find anything in the character that speaks to them... maybe someone else should be on the book. St. Martin added the "hmmm... are the souls rebelling? Should I worry about them taking me over?" Which isn't a bad plotline for a couple books (would that they had been written) but I think just overcomplicates things at the Codex level. (And as Lucius is a character who is already not really coherent at a glance, adding more general complexity is, I think, unadvised.) // The way that I think about it... the way most people seem to want the character to exist ('actually perfect swordsman'), he should not have "possesses his killers" powers. But Lucius was created as "The Eternal". It's a core concept of the character - predating the additional 'perfect swordsman' motifs - so it can't be removed, only made sense of. (Or, it could be removed, but at that point you should just chuck everything in the bin - Lash, Shrieking, Drugs - and come back with a totally new Champion.) I saw it as there being two routes to take: Overtly stress (per the original) that Lucius is an extreme sadomasochist for whom dying in glorious combat is the ultimate thrill. Defeating the mightiest of opponents is victory, death at their hands is also victory, only boredom is defeat. Make Lucius afraid of dying (without being afraid of staying dead). The problem with the second is... he historically dies a lot - and has died a lot. That's part of his core gimmick, it's what he's named after. If you make him afraid of dying, if you make it a negative thing for him, then... he's a failure. He's a loser. He set out to do a thing, and instead he died. (Over and over.) Which is potentially interesting! Making the resurrection a curse, as in the 10th edition Codex; an eternal embarrassment, a constant shameful reminder of how not a 'perfect swordsman' he is. Making Lucius' entire existence be Slaanesh's humiliation kink is a novel direction to take a character. (I'm not sure how popular a direction it will be, broadly. He's now the Wile E. Coyote of the 40k universe, and I don't think the majority of 40k fans are into it in the same way that watchers of looney toons are.) // Batman seems to be widely more popular than Superman, probably because his lack of (overt) superpowers means that writers have a lot more elbow room to tell cool stories with him. But I wouldn't want Superman to be a Batman - there's already a Batman that's a Batman. I like Superman for the stories that you can't tell with Batman (rare though they may be).

Lucius: Pride and Fall is a pretty short and fun story that highlights this. It switches back and forth between Lucius leading his warband against AdMech forces, and some random devout (loving father) munition factory worker. This second perspective shows how brutal and awful being a citizen of the Imperium is, and how despite it all the man's religious fervour is his centre - he knows he's doing the Emperor's work, and he's damn proud of being a tiny cog in the Imperial war machine. Which then, of course, he starts getting sick and delirious, as Lucius slowly takes possession of him; and eventually the Lucius plotline reveals itself to be a flashback, culminating in his hoof accidentally clomping down onto a landmine and *boom*. Teeeeeeeechnically I guess the guy could be said to have killed Lucius, but it's a pretty funny stretch, and Lucius wonders how many of his warband he's going to have to kill to make sure that they never speak of this again.

// Seriously though, I do think this is a bit of an issue. This is a wargame, and Codex writers have about half a page to get across a character's mien. In a novel you can play things a bit more between the lines, y'know: have characters talk constantly about perfection and nobility while being a total gong-show, and trusting your readers to get the joke. But in a Codex you need to just come out and say: "They perceive a perfection and nobility in themselves that, in truth, has long since vanished, smothered under warp-tainted excess and blinkered obsession." Otherwise, you get people who think they're actually noble perfectionists. Likewise, if Lucius is now a sadomasochist that loves pain and longs for death, while conflictingly being too vain to accept anything other than victory... that needs to just be said. Yes, it's unsubtle, yes it lacks depth. But the writers only have five paragraphs in which to talk about him (plus two for his weapons). I don't think one should blame the people who only glance at a character for coming away with a misunderstanding of them, if their fluff is sprinkled about and obscured, such that it requires thought and discussion to come to an understanding of it.

I've written about Lucius in the past, and for awhile have had in mind a thread detailing our greatest champion's history and evolution (and the issues therein). I was waiting to see what the updated 10th edition Codex lore and rules would do with him, however, and so now (book in hand) here we go. One feeling that I commonly run into in the Warhammer community - and even in the Emperor's Children community - is that Lucius the Eternal "sucks" as a character. He's a joke, and a bad one; a self-proclaimed perfect swordsman who dies constantly. So common is this opinion that I don't think it can be discounted as "well, that's just like, your opinion, man". There must be some sort of legitimate problem, and to flush that out I think it's necessary to fully explore his history. // Lucius the Eternal was created for the 2002 Codex (though his model would not release until 2006, during the The Fall of Medusa V campaign). The nascent Lucius was a bit different than the one we've come to know. A veteran Lord Commander with centuries of experience, who had become a twisted sadomasochist devoted to the melee even pre-Heresy - carving deep grooves into his flesh to link the myriad scars picked up in battle. When slain in gladiatorial combat, Lucius' "agonising death was an experience of transcendent pleasure" and Slaanesh contrived to allow him to possess his killer(s) so that he might continue to pursue such experiences. Ten millennia later, he is a sadistic slaughterer who seeks out further deadly combats, getting "endless satisfaction" from tormenting the souls of those who have killed him and subsequently been trapped in his cacophonic Armour of Shrieking Souls. While an excellent fighter, this was (at the time) primarily down to his gimmicks. His Combat Drug Dispenser providing boons (including increasing his already-above-average Strength of 5), his psychic power Fueled By Pain allowing him to (essentially) rebound attacks, and the disrupting effects of his sentient Lash of Torment, Warp Scream, Aura of Acquiescence, and Armour of Shrieking Souls (which also provided a ranged attack). His Weapon Skill was a rather average 5 (the same as Ahriman and Typhus, and less than Abaddon's 6 and Khârn's 7), so he wasn't what anyone would consider 'technically masterful'. He did have a rule called Martial Pride, which decreased his number of attacks against poorly skilled enemies, and increased them against better ones, though - representing how killing chaff is boring but tough enemies are fun. // The next big step in his development is the publishing, in 2006, of the first few books of the Horus Heresy series. They feature him pre-Heresy, though now as a far more junior Captain with a 'perfect visage', a charmingly hilarious overabundance of petty pride, and an obsession with duelling (which was added to the Emperor's Children at large). The lore also subsequently changes to be that he began cutting himself as an act of mad vanity (after having his nose broken by a sucker punch during a duel), rather than as a masochistic act. The 2007 Codex copy/pastes his original lore without change, but does boost his Weapon Skill (to 7, matching Khârn's) while decreasing his Strength to 4 and removing his Combat Drugs. He is de-psyker'd, Fueled By Pain's effect being folded into the Armour of Shrieking Souls. The 2012 Codex kept most of the rules the same, but updated his fluff to better match the novels. The two major changes that I'd like to highlight, though, are: his obsession with "being a perfect swordsman" is put in, and his finding death to be a transcendent pleasure is removed. (Though it does continue to say that he welcomes death with as much passion as he inflicts it, it doesn't say why he welcomes death.) 2012 is also a big year for Lucius in fiction, as he is the protagonist of the short story The Reflection, Crack'd and a notable presence in its follow-up Angel Exterminatus. In both of these, author Graham McNeill adroitly knits together Lucius' two core concepts: the perfect swordsman, and the ultimate sadomasochist. "He was as close to being the perfect swordsman as it was possible to be, possessing the ideal balance between attack and defence, flawless footwork and a pathological need to feel pain. “Such was the weakness of most opponents, they feared to feel pain. “Lucius had no such fear... "...as much as he liked to believe himself to be unbeatable, he knew that was not the case. There was no such thing as an unbeatable warrior, there would always be someone faster or stronger or luckier, but instead of fearing to meet such an opponent, Lucius ached for it.” “A jolt of uncertainty flooded Lucius at the thought that the warrior had a chance of besting him. He laughed, giddy at having finally met a worthy foe, his every nerve surging at the idea of defeat, even if the possibility was so remote as to be next to impossible. That such a possibility existed at all was reason enough to revel in it. “'You wounded me,' he said, amazed and thrilled at the same time..." Lucius aspires to be a perfect swordsman, but like the Emperor's Children in general, Lucius is a madman. To an average person, a "flawless victory" would be a duel in which one dispatches their opponent without getting so much as touched. But Lucius is a masochist, Lucius craves pain. A true perfect duel is one in which he's run ragged, tossed about, penetrated and bled, and if pushed over the edge into a little death itself, well that's the sweetest pleasure of all. // Over the next two codexes (2017, 2022) his rules and lore blurbs would (roughly) stay similar. Solid melee profile with bonuses against good enemies, some disruption effects, his ranged sonic attack, and wound rebounding (which becomes an in-game resurrection in the 10th Index). Ian St. Martin added the 40k short stories In Wolves Clothing (2016) and Lucius: Pride and Fall (2017 - the rather fun "steps on a landmine" one), and the novel Lucius: The Faultless Blade (2017). The shorts keep the sadomasochistic bent (while Lucius has his chest caved in he howls "in joyful pain" while his armour's souls are "moaning in concert with their gaoler", and while having his flesh burned and blood forced from his orifices his one thought is, "It was glorious."), while the novel adds a new bent: the possibility that the souls in his armour could rise up against him, forcing him to guard against them possessing their possessor. Unfortunately, I think a lot more people read the codexes and the first handful of 'Heresy novels than McNeill and St. Martin's later offerings. So, despite there existing lore of this 'perfectly sadomasochistic swordsman', this has meant that the general version that people get exposed to is: An insanely vain and proud obsessive, who primarily cares about being a perfect swordsman. Who dies a lot. Who wears armour made up of the howling souls of those who've killed him, which disrupts his opponents. Who wields a sword and a sentient daemon whip, which disrupts his opponents. And at a quick glance, that... well doesn't quite make sense. If one doesn't take time to properly explain Lucius' warped sense of perfection, then it doesn't make sense for a 'perfect swordsman' to be so focussed on screwing with his opponents, nor for one of his core gimmicks to be dying. There is a version of Lucius out there where "to die" is an exciting sort of victory in itself, where the only defeat is boredom. But if that's going to be the character, it needs to be hammered home repeatedly, otherwise... it just seems like he's a loser. It's not the fault of readers if they see 'perfect swordsman' and assume the general definition of that term. // So: what does he look like in 10th? Well, rules wise he has great melee stats (with his sword and lash acting similar to strike and sweep profiles; where I personally would have gone for a profile that went hard into elites and then struggled with chaff, but... he's good). He's gained a 5+ FNP (I assume to represent his Combat Drug Dispenser, which is nice to see a return of). His 'A Challenger Worthy of Skill' is a good representation of how he classically perks up for the big fights, as is his Duellist's Hubris (Fights First when not Leading a unit - the preening brat). Sadly, his Armour of Shrieking Souls no longer provides a ranged attack (as it did from 3rd until now) nor does it have any sort of wound rebounding (4th to 9th) or resurrection (10th Index - though honestly I didn't really like this, so I don't mind it not sticking around). Maybe the 4++ can be attributed to it, but they kind of just hand out invulnerable saves to everybody these days. (There is a bit of lore on his weapons, titled 'With Shriek, Lash and Blade' that goes into his armour's offensive capabilities, so glass half full: at least him being loud is still in the fluff.) Continuing on the lore note... well, there's some more conflict. The main section notes that pre-Heresy he was set apart from his fellow officers by the heights of his skill with the blade, and he began taking pleasure only from testing that skill against the greatest of champions. He carries the scars of his duels with pride and carves his flesh to link them. Happily, the lore here returns the line about his first death being a "transcendent pleasure" - something that I (as I'm sure you can tell) find very important. As I read that, I thrilled. But then... they add a bunch of new lore: no one knows how or why he possesses his killers, though it's assumed that Slaanesh won't let him meet his end "in anything less than a divinely extravagant manner" and that he worms his way into them via their sense of satisfaction. His warriors have to mention his deaths out of earshot (he's enraged by them in general), and each time he returns it wears away at both his sanity and his pride. He looses memories, slowly hollowing him out, and leaving him unaware of swathes of his lifetimes. And no matter how painful his possession was for his killer, it's nothing compared to the blow to Lucius knowing that he failed and was bested - cursed to forever be denied the chance of a rematch and the opportunity to prove his superiority. Gone are the mentions of the "endless gratification" that tormenting the souls in his armour brings him, and gone is the mentions of him welcoming death with as much passion as he inflicts it. // It's strange... they are close to re-writing him into a new, compelling version. (Admittedly, as a fan of his original self, it's not one I'd prefer. But I think it's one that I'd like if I was being exposed to the character for the first time.) A mad swordsman, cruelly cursed to be tormented by his constant failures. A loser, a joke; on purpose. I love a lot of characters who are losers - they're often a lot of fun. But then why put back in that line about him finding his death a transcendent pleasure? And... in both In Wolves Clothing and the Hammer & Bolter episode Eternal (where, whilst cut-in-half-real-bad, he breaths out the word "Rapture...") he very purposefully uses his death and possession to infiltrate enemy strongholds. In Lucius: Pride and Fall he re-emerges pretty ticked off, but because of the embarrassment at having stepped on a land mine, and he's exasperated at the notion of possessing some scrub who actually took pride in his pointless, boring factory work. These are (relatively) recent stories (especially with Lucius: The Faultless Blade getting a fancy special edition reprint to go along with the launch box). Which is to say... I guess they've made an effort to sort him out, but I don't think they quite nailed it. And while it's an interesting take (that a character who has dying as one of his core concepts hates dying) I'm not sure this is a great change for two reasons: It doesn't line up with a bunch of his other material. I don't think those sort of joke/loser characters are very popular. Now... when someone posts that they don't like Lucius because he has one job and he sucks at it, I have to just... acknowledge that that's true. No more posts explaining the importance of his sadomasochism and love of dying, because now he officially rages at his deaths. While... still finding them a pleasure? I don't know.

'The Age of Darkness' in this context is referring to the Horus Heresy itself. // I had wondered about that, but it appears that GK TDA being called 'Aegis pattern' pre-dates the mention of 'Saturnine pattern'. (Unless the writer didn't know that GK TDA had already been given a name.)

We don't know. The name was in the fluff, and then people associated it with the RT "egg-man" TDA. (Especially third-party bits/model sellers.) But the only established things about it are: It is mentioned in The Horus Heresy Book One - Betrayal, akin to Tartaros and Indomitus, in the general TDA section. (Which says that most patterns were "functionally identical", at the time only separating out Cataphractii as unique.) It entered production mid-Heresy (and then assumedly stopped production post-Heresy in favour of Indomitus being standardised), per the 2.0 core rulebook. A 2019 Warhammer Community article on TDA says that there is little functional difference between the Saturnine and Indomitus patterns, mostly being an aesthetic divergence. That's it. With the popularity of the "egg-man" design amongst third parties, however, I could easily see them deciding to adopt the fanon. But there's tons of room for Saturnine Terminators to be whatever, and conversely it's also possible that the set has new "egg-man" TDA that's not called Saturnine. (Note that Leagues of Votann's Hearthguard are also, according to Jes Goodwin, based on that RT Terminator model.)