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Showing results for tags 'Iron Hands rules'.
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Inspired by the entire "everyone runs Feirros+Leviathan" discussions - what might be hidden gems that may not be that famous, but still more than usable with our supplement? With the models around anyway, I intend to try Tarantula sentry guns. They are a staple for my Raptors lists, denying large areas for deep strike while thinning chaff ranks, and a nice speedbump for the more aggressive armies. In our case, they make better use of Feirros' targeting array (at usually BS4+), resulting in that nice rerollable 2+ to hit. Automated Targeting might still make them a bit unwieldy, but it's a cheap way of spamming more heavy weapons. Twin assault cannons, on a unit of 3, racks up 192p for 12W T5 - which might not be the most resilient choice we have, but averages 35 hits S6 AP-2 per round, or 14 hits in overwatch (without CM around), making it near suicidal to charge with the usual 10 GEQ squads or 5 MEQ squads. The cheaper heavy bolter variants combined with a single twin lascannon works too, being considerably cheaper and packing AT as well as anti chaff. Bonus points for their ability to entirely ignore the fact that someone is within 1" of them. Not only can they still fire unimpeded (yes, at the very unit currently hitting them), but also your remaining army can shoot that target too. I've had more than one opponent run their units into CC with a tarantula to save them from getting shot, only to get shot by both the tarantula and everyone around. With their base size, that's also a nice wall to block movement/CC.
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So the consensus seems to be that Iron Hands are top tier and possibly overpowered(unproven). It is possible that a rules change by GW could result in nerfs. What do you think might be reasonable possible changes they might make? Are changes necessary? If no changes come is that a signal of power creep to come? My personal opinion is that a small change is coming and will pull back on stacking defensive abilities in some way. It should be noted that my ability to predict GW rules changes is poor
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So I played my first game of 8th Edition yesterday using the new 'dex, and here are my first impressions of the table top. Armies were as follows: CT:Iron Hands Battalion + Vanguard Battalion Detachment - Captain with Terminator Armor, thunder hammer, Shield Eternal - Librarian with force sword, Might of Heroes, Null Zone - 5x Tacticals with plasma & combi-plas in a las/plas Razorback - 5x Tacticals with plasma & combi-plas in a las/plas Razorback - 10x Scouts with camo cloaks, sniper rifles, and missile launcher - Thunderfire Cannon - Thunderfire Cannon - Hunter Vanguard Detachment - Techmarine with combi-plas, full servoharness, power axe - Venerable Dreadnought with twin lascannons, fist, heavy flamer - Venerable Dreadnought with assault cannon, fist, heavy flamer - Venerable Dreadnought with heavy plasma cannon, fist, heavy flamer - Ironclad Dreadnought with seismic hammer, fist, 2x heavy flamers, and assault launchers Versus (gear approximate): CT: Ultramarines Battalion Detachment - Captain with relic blade & combi-plas - Librarian with force staff, Might of Heroes, and Veil of Time - 5x Tacticals with plasma & combi-plas - 10x Tacticals with melta, combi-melta, and multimelta in a Rhino - 10x Tacticals with flamer, combi-flamer, and heavy bolter in a Rhino - Dreadnought with assault cannon, fist, and stormbolter - 10x Tactical Terminators with cyclone missile launcher, assault cannon, a few chainfists - Land Raider Redeemer (stock) - Tri-las Predator We played Contact Lost with the table quarters deployment. Game ended after just two turns (store was closing) and a draw because I mismeasured a quarter of an inch off an objective. His deployment placed the Predator in the very back of his DZ along the short table edge, with good sight lines down the middle of the table. Dreadnought and LRR (with 5x Tacticals and the two HQs) were deployed in the middle, with the Rhinos near the mid-line of the table for an obvious flank maneuver. My deployment put the captain and all four Dreadnoughts in the middle of the table as far up as I could go for an immediate drive forward. TFCs were deployed in trenches in my backfield, with the Razorbacks and their HQ cargos split, one on each side to watch the flanks or be available to drive on objectives if necessary. The Hunter was on the side of a hill, watching over the middle of the table to contribute to anti-tank fire. The Scouts infiltrated into a bunker complex on a hill to guard the flank that his Rhinos were deployed to strike against; they were basically a speed-bump to block easy access to my Hunter. He had first turn. Dropped the Terminators right along the back edge of my deployment zone where there were coverage gaps. The heavy weapons took a few wounds off a Razorback, while one of my Techmarine gunners tanked the entirely of the stormbolter shots; failed only one armor save, and the FNP put paid to that one wound. The rest of his army pressed forward, with the Rhinos attempting a flank and the Dreadnought and LRR pushing on the center of the table. He divided his fire, scattering wounds on several different Dreadnoughts rather than focusing one down. The Rhinos put some stormbolter rounds into the Scouts and pushed one wound through their 2+ saves. He decided not to attempt a charge with the Terminators. My turn, I pushed the Dreadnought block into the middle of the table and advanced killed seven of the ten Terminators in my backfield with the two Thunderfires, the harness guns on one Techmarine, the plasma-Nought, a Razorback, and a Tactical Squad. Overcharging plasma is a wonderful thing, and the FNP saved both my Sergeant and the plasma gunner from blowing up. The rest of my fire destroyed the lead Rhino, killed all but two of its Tactical occupants, and put several wounds on the Dreadnought. I charged the Terminators with the Tacticals but he rolled well on his saves; the Librarian couldn't make the distance. In the morale phase, the remnant of his Tactical Squad ran off the board but the Terminators stayed put. His turn two, the Terminators backed off and opened fire, wiping out the rest of the Tacticals they were engaged with. He dismounted the models from his LRR and pushed that battlegroup forward to support his Dreadnought, while continuing to attempt a flank maneuver with the last Rhino (though he didn't dismount the squad; he should have to try to uproot the Scouts). He poured all the rest of his fire into my Ironclad, focusing it down. I rolled reasonably well on the FNPs, saving an extra three or four wounds. While that didn't keep it alive through his shooting phase, it did keep it alive longer than he wanted, so he kept having to divert fire from the other Dreadnoughts and the Razorbacks to ensure that the Ironclad indeed died. He attempted a charge with his Dreadnought onto a Razorback but failed. My turn two, I pushed the Dreadnought block and the captain further up the middle, setting up a charge for two of them into the LRR and/or its contents. Focused fire from the Razorbacks and the remaining Tactical Squad wiped out the five enemy Tacticals, and the Venerables put paid to his Dreadnought as well. I was ready to charge and kill his Captain with the Dreadnoughts when we forced to halt and pack up. Given the chance to play through the Assault Phase, I think I would have won. So. BATREP out of the way, here are the lessons I learned from this game: 1. Focus fire is important. Spreading damage around on models without degrading stat lines is a waste of effort. When it comes to heavy targets like vehicles and monster, focus your fire and kill one as quickly as you can. Then, designate another target and rinse & repeat. As has been the case since I first started playing, start with your anti-tank guns to peel open transports so your anti-personnel weapons can murderize the contents. 2. Capitalize on the FNP save's existence. Venerable Dreadnoughts get two FNPs save -- one from their own rules, one from the Chapter Tactics. They can even be given a third such save, a 5+, from one of the stratagems. While the saves themselves use poor values -- 5's and 6's -- the fact that any weapon can hurt any model means that overall, Dreadnoughts will be taking more hits than they used to. More hits means more damage, and more damage means rolling a high number of saves. If your dice are hot, it'll keep key units alive and fighting (like it did for my plasma-carriers on the the overcharge rolls) while in a high volume of fire case, such as my Ironclad, it can keep the unit alive for longer than it ordinarily would. The longer it's alive, the more firepower it's soaking up, which means less hitting the rest of your units. Consider the Ironclad as a Distraction Carnifex, if you will. 3. Dreadnoughts love the Machine Empathy stratagem. Ignore the moving-Heavy-weapon to-hit penalty was huge for both the assault cannon and plasma cannon Venerable Dreadnoughts, allowing me to hit on 2+ while rerolling 1's (thanks, Captain!) while advancing on the enemy. It was especially nice with the plasma cannon, since it kept me from overheating on 2's when murderizing the enemy Terminators in my backfield. 4. Respect the Thunderfire Cannon. S5 AP-1 doesn't sound like an exceeding powerful stat line, but that's when you forget to combine it with 4d3 shots. Three TFC shots across two turns resulted in 7 shots, 8 shots, and 10 shots, and that many dice rolling into any unit, even something as hard as Terminators, will push wounds through their armor saves. Its long range and indirect fire capability also make it easy to hide and still be effective. 5. Respect the plasma. I've always relied heavily on plasma weapons; it was the only way to survive in the Marine-heavy metas I used to play in. Now I know I played against a Marine army so this might be confirmation bias in effect, but my mass of plasma weapons were super effective. Overcharge mode against Terminators is just as silly-effective as it looks on paper, wounding on 2+, reducing them to a 5+ save, and each failed save killing a whole model. They're just as effective as anti-tank guns, since Rhinos and Dreadnoughts are T7, swinging your attacks to 3+ to wound instead of 4+ and again, punching multiple wounds in for every hit. Just beware of the twin plasma gun turret on the Razorback. You can't risk overcharging those because rather than losing a wound, they'll straight up kill the Razorback on an overheat. So that's me after one game. Let's hear about everyone else's early experiences!
- 5 replies
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- Iron Hands Chapter
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Can IH use there 6++ against mortal wounds?
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https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/IronHandsChapterFocusBoxout.jpg https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/IronHandsChapterFocusImage1.jpg https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/IronHandsChapterFocusImage2.jpg All thanks to Winds of Fury providing the key.
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For Warlord Traits, I've been using Storm of Fire and Iron Resolve; in most cases, my Warlord carries a hammer & shield so the Chapter specific trait Merciless Logic does me no good. In the interest of brainstorming, how would you gear a Warlord to take advantage of it? The most Dakota I can come up with is a stormbolter and power fist with wrist launcher -- max of seven shots -- but then you lose out on close combat chances to use it. Taking the relic axe, relic sword, or a generic relic blade all give decent CC stats without a hit penalty, though you can't take the axe with a Terminator Captain (my preferred option) and as a codex we're not particularly vaunted at melee anyway. It's quite the predicament. Any ideas? Anyone actually use Merciless Logic and if so, what was your opinion on its utility?
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It's been pretty quiet around here lately, and I'm assuming that's because my fellow Iron Captains are out purging xenos and heretics! So what has everyone been running? What tactics, combos, units, and/or army builds have been working for you? I've only played three games, but so far I'm a fan of my Venerable Dreadnoughts. The double-FNP gives them extra durability that always confounds my opponent (my one Tau opponent literally dropped f-bombs when I was saving wounds), and a pair of Thunderfire Cannons have probably sterling service in clearing away chaff units and objective holders like Fire Warriors and Tactical Marines. I've encountered lots of deep strikers though, so deploying so as to prevent a back-field drop seem very important to me, which is another reason why I like both my Hunter and the TFCs: they have 60" range and the TFCs don't need LOS, so I can stick them near enough to the table edge to close down landing zones without gimping their ability to reach across the table.
- 3 replies
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Just wanted to know if people think how CA18 impacted IH chapter tactics directly or indirectly. I'm actually looking into fielding Redemptor and simple dreadnoughts as they are much cheaper now and so the benefit of our tactic is quite higher. Your thoughts?
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Is it still viable in 8th edition?
- 6 replies
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- Iron Hands Chapter
- Clan Raukaan
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Edited the title to broaden the topic :) Thanks to the new supplement preview: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/09/09/space-marines-preview-sons-of-ferrus-manusgw-homepage-post-3/ We now know that the main rule you get for going FULL IRON HANDS is this: We relentless now baby! Land your Devastators in drop pods and unleash hell. No support characters necessary Multi Meltas are kinda amazing now, or hell the new Grav Amp Strat with Grav Cannons feels very IH.
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If you use the supplement, can you still use stratagems, warlord traits and relics from the main codex? Please excuse grammar, spelling mistakes and such.
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Cheif Apothecary makes Flesh is weak a 5+ for all infantry/ bikers within 6" From Faith and Fury book. Lol.
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So there's a discussion on the IH Facebook page about submitting updated rules and a detachment concept to GW for the Iron Hands. I'm a pessimist so I don't particularly think we'll see much traction, but I figured I'd try to pull that discussion here (frankly, I dislike FB for these kinds of talks). So this is what I came up with. It's fairly minimalist, mostly because I'm afraid that submitting uber-awesome proposals are a great way of having them rejected out of hand. Iron Hands Chapter Tactics: The Flesh is Weak: Roll a dice each time an IRON HANDS model with this tactics loses a wound. On a 6, the damage is ignored and the model does not lose a wound. When rolling for CHARACTERS and VENERABLE DREADNOUGHTS, add +1 to this roll. Warlord Trait: No change. Machine Empathy: No change. Relic: Replace the Axe of Medusa with the Gorgon's Chain. Gorgon's Chain: IRON HANDS non-VEHICLE CHARACTER only. This model receives +1 Wound. In addition, add +1 to any rolls made to ignore damage when rolling for The Flesh is Weak. Iron Father Kardan Stronos. M WS BS S T W A Ld Save 5" 2+ 2+ 4 5 6 5 9 2+ Keywords: ADEPTUS ASTARTES, CHARACTER, HQ, IMPERIUM, INFANTRY, CAPTAIN, TERMINATOR, TECHMARINE, CHAPTER TACTICS, UNIQUE. IRON HALO: This model has a 4+ invulnerable save. MORE MACHINE THAN MAN: Roll a die at the end of your turn. On a roll of a 6, this model regains a wound it lost earlier in the battle. RITES OF BATTLE: You can re-roll hit rolls of 1 made for friendly IRON HANDS units within 6" of this model. TELEPORT STRIKE: During deployment, you can set up this model in a teleportarium chamber instead of placing it on the battlefield. At the end of any of your Movement Phases this model can teleport into battle - set it up anywhere on the battlefield that is more than 9" away from any enemy models. BLESSING OF THE ONISSIAH: At the end of your Movement Phase this model can repair a single IRON HANDS VEHICLES within 3". That model regains D3 lost wounds. A model can only be repaired once per turn. This model is equipped with a servo-harness, a master-crafted Boltgun, and the Axe of Medusa. Relic: AXE OF MEDUSA: S+2. AP-2. D2. Any wound rolls of 6+ made by this weapon inflict a mortal wound in addition to their normal damage. Specialist Detachment: Fist of Medusa Strike Force. FIST OF MEDUSA ATRIKE FORCE (1 CP): Use this stratagem when choosing your army. Pick an IRON HANDS Detachment from your army to be an Iron Hands Fist of Medusa Strike Force Specialist Detachment. CHARACTERS, THUNDERFIRE CANNONS, and VEHICLES in that Detachment gain the FIST OF MEDUSA STRIKE FORCE keyword. INVIOLABLE ARMOR (1 CP): Use this stratagem when a FIST OF MEDUSA STRIKE FORCE unit is chosen as a target in the enemy Shooting Phase. Until the end of the phase, shooting attacks resolved against that unit receive a -1 to their wound rolls. INTERLACED TARGETING MATRIX (1 CP): Use this stratagem when an enemy unit is damaged by a FIST OF MEDUSA STRIKE FORCE unit. For the remainder of that phase, other FIST OF MEDUSA STRIKE FORCE units gain +1 to their hit rolls when targeting the damaged enemy unit. Warlord Trait: MASTER OF THE FORGE: Characters with this Warlord Trait gain the Blessing of the Omnissiah special ability (see: Techmarine). If this character already has the Blessing of the Omnissiah rule, then when repairing a VEHICLE, they can restore d6 wounds instead. Relic: THE IRONSTONE: TECHMARINE only. While within 6" of the bearer of the Ironstone, FIST OF MEDUSA STRIKE FORCE VEHICLES count as having the Chapter Tactics (Iron Hands) rule. If an affected VEHICLE already has Chapter Tactics, it receives +1 to its roll to ignore damage when rolling for THE FLESH IS WEAK. So that's my idea. It draws heavily on what we had in 6th/7th Edition, and I tried to keep the bonuses from being too crazy. It focuses on vehicles intentionally; because Space Marine vehicles have inexplicably not received Chapter Tactics, but we're the vehicle chapter, I wanted to reinforce the theme that our vehicles are better by making ours more durable than everyone else's. Let me know what you think.
- 12 replies
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- Vigilus
- Iron Hands Chapter
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If you master-craft a centurion sergeant's HB weapon, does it affect both his HBs, or just one?
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For your perusal: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/09/12/preview-iron-father-feirrosgw-homepage-post-2/
- 86 replies
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- Malkaan Feirros
- Iron Hands Chapter
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Absolutely bonkers. A minimum of four vehicles can fit in this aura.
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what do you guys think? we can make one or more dreads a character (stratagem) and bc they are a character we can give them a warlord trait (stratagem) like FNP 5+ not sure if a relic is allowed ive read somewhere that vehicles cant have relics. for me the obvious pick would be IronClad dread, 4 attacks + 1 double CC choice + 1 shock assault + 1 character stratagem , T8, chainfist, and 8 wounds