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+++ Warning: This is just my take on 8th based on the GW Live FAQ video. I am drawing conclusions based on what they said as fact, and combining some other sources: I think Shadow Wars may have given us some insight into mechanics, while AoS may give us insight into source material. +++ We have a wishlist topic, but I think since GW did the video yesterday I feel like we could probably mull over how this news will affect us building Deathwatch for 8th edition. Assuming what they said is true, I don't think the transport issues should be a problem anymore. They claim they 'thoroughly' playtested every codex. Now does that mean the Deathwatch got as much testing as.... Ultramarines? Probably not, but I don't want to assume that. The end result is we have to assume the really low level, 'why didn't they even think of this' stuff has to be taken care of. 1. What we do know is there is Strength and Toughness. We know anything can wound anything else. At first people went nuts about this but I have said this more than once so let me just quote myself to save time: So to me, this keeps the Stalker relevant. If it's still combined with SIA, even better, and potentially it's even stronger if they borrow from Shadow Wars (IE: running makes you +1 to hit with shooting.) ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 2. No more Templates. I look to 'sustained fire' from Shadow Wars for possible answers to what happens for us. Why do I like this? First thing is I always despised our best gun had to sit at the front of the squad and die the turn after they did their business (since they are at the front). (Note: I'm assuming closest models still die first in 8th) This means our Frag Cannons may actually live longer! I can't tell you how much I won't miss strategically placing 2 Frag cannons, a normal dude, and a shield dude. If it has far less importance, I'm all for that. So I think 'no templates' is a positive for Deathwatch. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 3. He who charges goes first! I love this. It actually helps all armies imo, and makes some insanely scary (Orks for example). But why I like this for Deathwatch is we do have unique (albeit too expensive assault options but more on that later) assault options. I think it's iconic for your 'hero' to have something like a fist or hammer... or Heavy Hammer (!?) but right now that's just a bad idea, especially with challenges. Does the second round of close combat flip to initiative? Who knows, but we do know if you rush in with your heavy hammer, your 'best' guy gets to swing that hammer. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 4. Cost re-balancing. This is huge. Maybe one of my bigger gripes. We pay just way too much for a base dude, and the wargear (especially some of it) is so expensive you would never touch it in a real game. Now if they did a 'fair' assessment and they claim they did because they want to release the most 'balanced version of 40K yet', then that means they MUST have evaluated Deathwatch costing. We know in the past to give 'marines' a chance at competitive levels one of the mechanisms was 'free stuff'. So we were overcosted, and got nothing at a discount (even trading in an SIA bolter for a.... meltagun meant you basically just became a brutally overcosted space marine.) It goes without saying that at the very least, some things would go down in cost. The big question will become: did they re-balance undercosted stuff as well (looking at Eldar)? I guess we'll see. 4B. This is really a side effect of 4 (cost balancing) and 2 (no templates): I see a positive for items like... the IHB. A terrible weapon, not only over costed but of completely split roles that you are paying for, but rarely using. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 5. Rewarding the 'Pure" anti Xenos player: In the video they cited a reward system. "Keywords" and command traits that grew the larger your base Faction becomes. Further to this they explained that there are 14 Force org charts. The more of your faction that fit into the largest chart, the more your primary faction benefited from using the larger Org chart. This is good. I always hated having to rely on outside resources to be competitive. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 6. Armour Modifying and Terminators: This is partly based on the video talking about armour modifying, and Shadow Wars (as well as 2nd Edition's) take on terminator armour. This works for us because if we assume we can still cherry pick load outs for our terminators, it might actually be much more useful to take those 1-3 man terminator squads with special weapons and plop them down on the field. This was unique to us, and may get even better if we can't be outright denied our save, and it does in fact become: 3+ save on 2xD6. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 7. Vehicle 'Wounds' and Damaged Performance: So everything will depreciate in performance as it takes damage. This is good for us, bad for Xenos. It always bothered me a lot that you can take half the wounds off of a Riptide, or Tervigon, or fill in the Xenos Species, and it always operated at 100% efficiency. Yet one lucky roll on a Landraider, and it's stuck the whole game, basically useless. It just never made sense. We don't know the extent of how impaired performance becomes for a victim, all we know for sure is that there is a degredation of performance for damaged MC's/GC's and vehicles. This helps us against the Xenos, and it helps us with those expensive units no one takes in competitive games: Landraiders. The Beacon Angelis + Landraider may become a real thing (if the Beacon survives the edition!). I'm looking forward to potentially using one of the most iconic vehicles in the Imperium again. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 8. Sustained fire + Damage Values: One thing that always frustrated me is over the years I've watched many Xenos weapons evolve through editions, and codexes. This very, very rarely happened for Marines. I understand financially it made no sense to make the "Heavy Bolter" better at throwing.. Bolts. It was more economic to create... the necessary evil of Grav Cannons (for example). You can't sell heavy bolters when everyone has a closet full. Well now with Sustained Fire + Damage Values we can assume that yes, perhaps a Lasgun can damage anything, but a Lascannon is probably going to do something like D6 damage against a hard target for every 'wound'. (Taken from Shadow Wars). So now how does the idea of a Landraider look if it can't be fried in a shot, and has useful lascannons? I'm speculating to a degree here, but it would make sense. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 9.The Psychic Phase: Purely conjecture on this one, but dabbling in psychics is really nasty for Deathwatch in competitive play. We have zero advantage here (to my annoyance since I feel strongly we should have a dude who's forte is exploiting the weak Xenos psychic mind!) The problem is that dabbling in psychics is really bad in 7th edition, and quite volatile. You can pay a few points for a dude who may be able to do something incredible, or absolutely nothing of value, and would be shut down completely by any Psychic powerhouse in the game. This is more rumour based but if Psychic tests follow AoS, it appears taking 'a psyker' might be valid again. I miss being able to do that. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 10. Range Modifiers and Deathwatch: This is a mixture of my own conclusions based on the FAQ video and Shadow Wars shooting phase. I really think this makes sense for most of our weapons and I believe they 'previewed' this idea for us with the Frag Cannon and its 'Impact' rule. Again going back to Shadow Wars some weapons, actually almost all, have a short range stat, and a long range stat. So obviously this is already in play with the Frag Cannons, but what about the IHB? This is really a good beneficiary of the rule and may make it far more useful, rather than situational. What about Deathwatch Shotguns? Without templates but with range modifiers they could be really good combined with multi round choices. So those are 10 random thoughts, in no specific order, I have on the 8th Edition preview and Deathwatch. Am I off my rocker? Do you have a few ideas of your own? What did I miss?

So I was thinking of doing a wonky, multi purpose assault squad in a Corvus.... but then I started thinking about the Frag Cannon and Rhino rushes since i'm not too keen on Drop Pods. Then it hit me that multi Frag teams in Rhino's could be a very strong unit if used correctly. So they are assault weapons... that Auto hid 2D6 times. T1, Rhino moves, and advances. T2, Unit disembarks (beginning of turn now) within 3" and moves/advances and then ignites everything it can. Units assaulting are taking 3-4 Frag Cannons x 2D6 auto hitting. Units get too close? Move away, "advance" away, each frag cannon can still hit 2D6. This is the way I'm reading it. And it seems like a potentially strong tactic just simply because the Frag is S6, and that's going to do work against a vast majority of stuff, and anything it can't reliably hurt you'd just switch modes. I'm just thinking of some of the nasty assault armies I'm seeing and in the last edition you didn't see them as much but when you did they were extremely difficult to deal with, but now the Frag overwatch, and ability to allow 'advancing' and Fragging seems potent. What do you guys think? Is this valid or am I missreading something?

I've only played one game of 8th so far (50 power level) but for those who've played more, how have you been constructing your Kill Teams? Whenever I sit down to create a 100 power level or 2000 point list, I keep coming up with lists that have only 4 Kill Teams (combined with a few characters/small Bike teams/vehicles) that have insane firepower, but mediocre/weak survivability. (a Deathwatch staple!) Most lists are only around 40 models. Each Kill Team has a plan - long range shooting, mid range hybrid, dedicated assault unit, etc. - and I think each will be very effective in those roles. But I can't help but look at the lists and think right away that I'm not going to be competitive against armies that are bringing say 10+ units in a similar sized list, allowing them to maneuver around much better than I, even with Teleport Homers and Corvus transports. Couple example Teams I've come up with below. Obviously it's a little out of context when you don't have the full army but just to illustrate: 2 Combi Melta + 5 Combi Plasma (all with Power Swords) + Frag Cannon + Black Shield w/ TH + Watch Master (in Drop Pod) 4 Stalker Boltguns + IHB + Missile Launcher + Termie w/CML + cheap Vanguard Vet (on foot) 4 Frag Cannons + 2 Shotguns + Termie w/TH+SS, + Vanguard Vet w/ dual Grav Pistols (in Corvus) I wonder if I would be better off with an MSU approach, with 5-7 man Kill Teams mostly made of Veterans, and touting more units and more vehicles. Originally, upon seeing the rules for 8th my first thought was that this would be the way to go: 2 Combi Melta + 2 Bolters + Frag Cannon (in Razorback) 4 Shotguns + Frag Cannon (in Razorback) 4 Bolters + Frag Cannon + Bike + Vanguard Vet (on foot) 4 Bolters w/ Power Swords + Black Shield w/ TH (in Drop Pod) 3 Shotguns + 2 HTH + Bike (in Corvus)side note: I think Black Shield units in Drop Pods will be fantastic. Just curious how your list building has been going. Do you find yourself leaning towards Large Units since split fire has changed the game, or towards a more MSU approach for better flexibility and target saturation?

So this model has always been one of my favorite flyers. It just looks handsome... and deadly to me. I was so disappointed with it in 7th. I ran it every way conceivable but could never get it to work. In 8th edition we're looking at a whole new animal...perhaps the sleek, black, beast of the sky that we always wanted. We have good choices for armament: 1. The Twin Assault seems a winner with 12 shots, and now a 360 fire arch. Alternatively the twin Lascannon is no slouch and this might be a great alternative to taking a Dreadnought for such firepower (and save those Assault Cannons for Razorbacks). 2. The Hurricane bolters are a good buy now and have a better use measuring from the model rather than the mount. 3. Stormstrike missiles might be the best way for us to leverage ranged shooting at high T value targets, but the Black Star Rocket Launcher is decent anti-air (if only it were S7), but has decent chaff clearing alternate fire (especially on units cowering in cover). Finally we have survivability or offensive accessories: 1. Infernum Halo-Launcher: The good news is it becomes a bit harder for a flyer to -shoot- down the Corvus. The bad news is this only applies while remaining in Supersonic mode. Also since this is a shooting only modifier, something like a Heldrake may still chew away at one of the wings unimpeded. 2. Auspex Array: The offensive choice. Re-roll all 1's when targeting anything that can't fly. Bombing"Ability": This is actually worded strangely, and is not 'equipment' but rather an "ability". Blackstar Cluster Launchers may help against high model count, spammy squads. Cluster Launchers essentially replace the "bomb" function from 7th edition. By flying over a unit in the movement phase and 'bombing' up to 10 stinky Xenos in the unit. On a D6 roll of 6, the unit suffers a Mortal Wound. Transport Ability: Right now the Corvus is truly our only avenue to get a very 'mixed' Kill team across the board. Holding up to 12 models, this includes Jump Pack, Termies (2 models each), and Deathwatch Biker models (3 models) respectively. So how will you arm your Corvus?

OK watched a load of Warhammer TV while I was painting last night and various things came up the most interesting was the battleforged in relation to how its organised. My initial thoughts were we'd have to organise into faction detachments this doesn't appear to be the case all you need is a common keyword <Imperial> So HQ, troops, elites, Heavy, Flyers of Any <Imperial> plug into your detachment Need some troops take SM Scouts Guard or Sisters of Battle, need some Elites Take Sisters of Silence, need some heavy support take some SM or Guard tanks etc.. etc.. Given the leaked stuff is this correct? Cross buffing is out the window but it looks a really good way of getting a themed army some scouts in speeders doing forward recon an inquisitor lead deathwatch force jetting in on Corvus Blackstars backed up with some guard and a couple of tanks. They also said the new Primaris Marines are coming out in kit form so modelling them with Deathwatch shoulder pads is an option all your loosing is chapter buffs.

Just had a check around as I thought Might of heroes was only going to be useful for characters but Seems like Dreads & all other vehicles have keyword Adeptus Astrates in them, adding 1 to vehicles toughness may seem like no big deal but upping a Dread from T7 to T8 takes it out of S4 small arms wounding it on 5's to wounding it on 6's. Same goes for Razorbacks and Rhino's granted your poor libby has to walk but hey life sucks sometimes Anyone with access to the leaked pages see any flaw in this?

Thank the Emperor for Reddit. https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B4IGo22sDo4zTi13M3djTGdoZVk I am currently reading through the details while comparing with the codex we have now.

So we have the latest nugget in that Morale is a once only test but the interesting thing is here we know that this can be affected by nearby Characters working backwards from Terminators who are currently 9 and now 8 you'd expect we'd be 8 as well. We know a whole bucketful of rules are going to bite the dust and not before time as the whole USR thing ended up getting silly with codex specific buffs and ways round page upon page of common rules. Anyways if were going to be 8 its going to be hard to get us to fail a test it does appear though this is a remove model tests (as in your not going to roll moral then roll a save) So how does this affect Kill Teams assuming were going to get a variant of our staple organisation layout? 1st in there's a strong rumour that characters are now gone completely and that would make sense from a streamline point of view as all this challenge malarky would go straight down the bin with it also in the mill is that we still have IC's but they can't join units so straight away Deathstars go in the same bin along with challenges. The burning question though is will we be allowed Kill Teams if so it looks like they will be one of the few mixed units in the game? I have to say my head is positively spinning with the BellofLostSouls rumours roundup