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  1. Hey guys, I wanted to get some opinions on the 'best' secondary objectives for us. I've been struggling with that part of the game a bit, mostly because I'm so caught up in list building, strategems and all that jazz that I treated them as an afterthought in the past. In general, I'm not a huge fan of the concept in itself and if it were up to me, I would probably drop the whole layer of codex-specific-secondaries from the game tbh. But since they're part of the game, I'll have to get a grip on them, I guess. I have used some of the Space Wolves secondaries in the past, with rather mediocre success. Some of the "Kill-X" objectives seem fun and fluffy, but also situational. I once tried "Oaths..." from the Marine codex, which seemed to provide value a bit more reliably (forgot about moving a unit in the center in each round though, because I'm an idiot). Anyway, what are your recommendations? What is your approach in general? Do you have a set plan for secondaries already in advance, or do you choose depending on mission and or opponent? Thanks in advance, ranulf
  2. There are varying degrees of experience in the Horus Heresy community but most of all we want to recruit others, so I'm going to start a series of discussions and encourage others to do so that focus on the more mundane questions to the veterans amongst you. The intent behind this is to build a foundation of knowledge for people to draw from and attract others to a friendly and informative guide from fellows from within the community. Starting with the pride of a non-Primarch Legion force and the character and beatstick, let's talk about the Praetor. Questions we can answer - what weapons to give a Praetor, what armour (i.e. what type) and who to run him with? How does this differ from Legion to Legion, or army build to army build, Rites of War included? Please share your thoughts, including your experiences or just your themed preferences if you like. There's room for all sorts here!
  3. With 3 out of the 4 cult marines no longer being in our codex I wanted to discuss how best to utilize them. Them not gaining legion traits sucks, but I still think cult marines are still pretty useful. Here's what I have so far: Berserkers: -Still hit very hard in melee, getting exploding 6s is a very good boost -Fury of Khorne for tough units -Veterans of the long war still really good -+1 Str from mark -Run with a khorne priest to get wanton massacre early Rubric Marines: -+2 shots with flamers make the now 3pt warpflamers threatening -Another cheap psyker on the board -Surprisingly tough with mark of tzeench + all is dust + AoC -Demon shells for -3 bolters -Can be a good backfield unit with warp-born foresight Plague Marines: -The free wargear is very good (3 Plasma guns for free with a 10 man squad) -Pretty tough with Mark of Nurgle + AoC Noise Marines: -Lots of support with EC -+1 Dmg within half range + veterans on sonic weapons is powerful Side note: While not the main topic of this thread I wanted to bring up Confluence of Traitors and cult marines. Because of the wording on the stratagem saying "Until your next command phase, models in that unit have that legion trait" I think it is actually possible to give a cult marine unit a legion trait. My argument for this is that the word "gains/gain" is used when talking about abilities that a unit gets both the before game begins, and last all battle. Where has, "have" is used for when a unit is temporarily given an ability for a turn. I don't actually believe this would work in a real game, and is a case of extremely rules lawyering but I thought it would be interesting to bring up.
  4. In this topic we will discuss the various Ultramarines specific Relics available in the Ultramarines Supplement. Note that Special Issue Wargear does have some Ultramarines specific Relics to choose from, but such is the variance available due to Honoured Sergeant as well as the nature of Successor Chapters, I've split the two sections into two separate articles on the matter. I'll open proceedings with a round up of each item and my opinion on the effectiveness of each. This can and likely will be disputed by our esteemed fraternity here but that is good - discussion is to be encouraged! Let us all know what you think and whether there are combinations not mentioned. Without further stalling for time... Relics of Maccragge Sanctic Halo The same old Relic and likely to remain a firm favourite, there are few models this Relic is not worth taking on. (The Cataphractii Captain springs to mind, since a singe deny isn't worth your Relic slot or a CP in my opinion) Primaris Captains might have an extra wound but the lack of a 2+ save, Storm Shield or movement options is quite the drawback. As such they particularly enjoy the benefits of this item. However, it you want a Storm Shield protection but want to keep your snazzy gun as well as beatstick of choice on your Classic Captain, then this Relic is a solid choice for you too. The Soldier's Blade I wanted to like an Ultramarines only sword but this is a hard pass for the majority of models. Worse in every way bar Damage than the Burning Blade (equalling at D2), there are only 2 reasons to take this weapon and they're very specific. The first is the Phobos knife wielder. This is possible but likely you'll be using your Phobos Captain as a sniper and a Lieutenant isn't the most competitive combat monster to use a valuable Relic slot on. The second circumstance is the even more unlikely event you already used the Burning Blade but are desperate for another equivalent. Thing is, you probably could have just forked out 5pts extra to have a Power Fist or Relic Blade at this point. So unfortunately this should be a hard pass. The Standard of Maccragge Inviolate A great Relic is you're planning on using some close combat options. Let's be honest, as an Ultramarines player you're likely not worried about morale so the reason you'll take this Relic is the bonus to attacks. Using choices solely in Codex Space Marines and the Supplement you will need to think carefully about how you are going to get the bearer of this standard (the Standard Bearer, if you will) into position alongside your assault forces. Jump Pack models will leave this one behind and units of Vanguard are the ones you will likely be thinking about most for all the special melee weapons they have available. Of course, there are other options available. A Terminator Ancient is someone who can teleport in just behind the assault force, or alongside Terminators. A big squad of Cataphractii Terminators, for example, will benefit greatly from the attack increase. There is an argument to be made for an Ancient carrying this model with the footslogging core of your list but personally I think Intercessor squads prefer other supporting characters that help all round with their shooting as well as close combat capacity. Still a reasonable choice and 10 Intercessors have 41 attacks alongside this Banner in the 1st round of combat! Transport options will be the key here. Deliver this model up close alongside an assault force and you won't care so much about the lack of a bike or Jump Pack. Special mention goes to the Impulsor which allows a model to move 14", disembark 3", move 6" and likely keep up with any unit you want. Primaris Ancients accompanying Vanguard with Jump Packs are looking to be a likely combination with this Relic. Other interesting opportunities to deliver the model will be Drop Pods, Storm Ravens and even the good old fashioned Rhino, but these methods require a little more planning. Armour of Konor A decent bit of protection for a Terminator clad character. The 4+ Invulnerable save is only really relevant on Librarians and Ancients in Terminator armour since Chaplains and Captains have the same or better. However, all characters, Captains included, will appreciate the ability it comes with - halving wounds caused per attack. This makes a Captain with Storm Shield quite tricky to put down, but really such a Captain will enjoy the Tarentian Cloak even more. Take this armour for a Terminator heavy armour as the next item should be your first pick... Tarentian Cloak This Relic is just superb! It combines the benefits of an Invulnerable save with an apothecary! Consider it on models without invulnerable saves but who already have a 2+ armour save, or models who have plenty of wounds to take advantage of the free wounds return. The reason I suggest not placing it on a model with just a 3+ save and 4 or 5 wounds is because the models die fairly easily. Lieutenants of all stripes, even Primaris ones, don't last long on the frontline with just power armour. Captains have more wounds and built in invulnerable saves so can get away with just 5 wounds. Where this Relic really sings is a Terminator Captain with a 3+ invulnerable, or a Gravis Captain. The former is so well protected it's obnoxious whilst the latter has a massive number of wounds. Consider the juggernaut that is a Cataphractii Captain that has a Relic blade/chainfist, combi weapon of choice and regenerates D3 wounds a turn. This Relic is actually my first pick when it comes to protecting characters. Primaris benefit the most since they all have an extra wound over their fellows so there aren't many picks that won't enjoy the Tarentian Cloak, but remember the role of each model before you give this to a model in your list - you might want something more offensive for your Primaris characters. Especially with super snipers. Put this on your Terminator or Gravis Captain. Vengeance of Ultramar People often dislike a gun for a Relic but this one is actually pretty good. Strength 4 and no AP doesn't scream game breaking but hear me out! This gun re-rolls ALL wounds against anything that isn't a vehicle. Oh and it has 8 shots when rapid firing. For Ultramarines that means, in the Tactical Doctrine, you can move and fire 24" with 8 AP-1 shots that re-roll wounds. Let me say again; re-roll wounds! This will help a model carve through infantry from a distance. Primaris can't use it but really they have fairly good guns already and a selection of Relics in Codex Space Marines to fill any void there anyway. Shame though as this kind of firepower is rare in a Space Marines character, as often it's quality over quantity. Lots of models can use this Relic but hitting on a 2+ is likely the best way to get the most out of it. Techmarines can be quite a thorn in the side of an opponent with just a 2pt weapon whilst he repairs your Redemptor or Contemptor, or Land Raider, for example. A decent pick if you don't need the other options available to Ultramarines more. (we really are spoilt for choice) Helm of Censure An interesting pick if a little superfluous to our requirements as an Ultramarines player. We get many a re-roll after all. However, what this does do is allow an over-charged Combi-plasma to re-roll 1s to hit and wound and crucially against Astartes forces, will wound Toughness 7 models on a 2+! A sniper Primaris could do with this as could anything with a power fist or equivalent. A little skewed against Astartes so this item may see itself relegated to the subs bench or extra Relic. Would you take this over Tarentian Cloak, The Santic Halo or a weapon? Probably not. A spare character with a need to increase its killing potential outside of frequently found re-roll bubbles? Very possible. Treat this choice as such. If you're already using the choice Relic for the army but want to boost some characters then this is a little pick me up to that end. As an example, a Chapter Champion is at his most powerful with the Burning Blade and Imperium's Sword Warlord Trait, but if you've used these elsewhere then you can't go far wrong with this boost to his killing potential.
  5. (apologies if this should be in Tactica, but I felt that this would be more relevant in the general Adeptus Astartes section of the board because it's only about Marines) So, this came to me while I was in the shower this morning (I know, shower thoughts are best thoughts ), but I realized that Shadowspear gives Space Marine players the ability to deny the ENTIRE BOARD to enemy deep-striking. And it only involves three data-sheets. Those being: Primaris Captain in Phobos Armour Primaris Infiltrators Relic Land Raider Proteus (equipped Explorator Augury Web) Each unit has an ability that stops enemy deepstriking within 12" of it. You could take a patrol with just those, splitting the Infiltrators into two squads, and if you set them up in a straight line with no overlaps (which as you'll see is difficult) means that just between three (technically 4 if you combat-squad) you've got a 24"x120" area of no deepstriking due the wording of the abilities. And that's only 654 points to deny a MASSIVE area of the board to your opponent. Add more of those units to the front and back of the 'line' and the area denial gets even larger. Obviously, not getting any overlap would only work on Apocalypse boards, but even with overlap, it makes a massive zone of board control just by those units being there. So if you're in a meta where people like to deep strike a lot of units....
  6. I've been mulling over this and it looks like one of our "big things". The big knock out punch Strategum that is so important it is once per game. Problem is, I just don't think I can make much use out of it using my combined arms response army. What could we do to get the most out of it, which units benefit most and how to create lists that take advantage of it. The quick answer I feel is "take a lot of bolter troops" but the problem I have with this is such a thing weakens your over all firepower somewhat. Relying on bolters to kill high end targets always ends badly. That said, Centurions, Aggressors and other high rate of fire shots can make the most of this Strategum. We don't want to waste it on say just 5 bolter dudes rapid firing after all! What do folk think about this?
  7. This topic is for discussion of the Command Point upgrade for the Apothecary character as seen in the Faith and Fury Supplement; Masters of the Chapter. Chief Apothecary - Overview Although an inexpensive selection, an Apothecary is an ELITES choice which is either easy to include or difficult if you have limited additional HQ choices you wanted to include in your list. For most, a Chief Apothecary can be a great addition to an army. A health warning... it's unlikely your Apothecary will be your Warlord and thus will cost 2 Command Points (CPs) if you want to get the best use out of him as you WILL want him to take a Warlord Trait. 3 if you want his Relic as well as other Relics. That is a lot for an army that isn't a Brigade! More on this in a bit. I'd say, despite being multiple wound models, Primaris basic infantry are not the right choice to accompany an Apothecary. Do you really want to use CPs just to bring back a couple Intercessors? Same goes for a couple Tactical Marines. Where this model shines is support of expensive, elite models and units that are already very survivable. Consider providing Medical Attention to 2 separate units with multiple wounds where possible to raise dead models from each in a single turn, though remember they will have a single 1 remaining at this point. Aggressors will love this guy! Bringing back from the dead a model a turn (fairly likely thanks to Selfless Healer) then healing him is absolutely amazing and Aggressors can really benefit from the Healer's Aegis since they don't have a 2+ save or invulnerable. Remem Centurions also enjoy a Chief Apothecary, though don't need the Healer's Aegis very often since they have a 2+ save anyway. Remember, AP-3 will still leave them a 5+ save. Bringing back one of these big boys above 1 wound will be very effective especially if they're hanging further away from the opponent so took a deal of effort to drop a model in the first place. Our poor old friends Terminators and their variants are now something that can be quite effective alongside a Chief Apothecary. Bringing back from the dead a model a turn will make it difficult for opponents to easily remove them, thus maintaining their offensive capacity for longer as well. Over a period of a few turns a remnant Terminator squad can get back up to combat effectiveness quite easily. Just plan the teleportation of Terminators carefully as if the Chief Apothecary can't reach them he's useless for them. Drop Pods are something to consider but only as a tag along - don't pay the points just for him. This ties in with the last types of units that really benefit from this character, which is highly survivable models. Company and Vanguard Veterans, Terminators especially Cataphractii and Assault Terminators, can all have high invulnerable saves and thus be difficult to remove. An opponent will find it frustrating to kill off 5 Vanguard one turn only for 2 to rise from the dead, pick up their Storm Shields and join their brothers in the fight! 1 wound models with Storm Shields will enjoy a Chief Apothecary most of all I feel, since 2 at a time can be resurrected and thus an opponent will have to factor that into their target priority. Special mention should go to the fact a Chief Apothecary can, with Selfless Healer, give D3 wounds back to 2 different characters or 2D3 back to the same character in a turn. This could be very entertaining and effective with a high wound character already, so Terminators and Gravis characters both spring to mind. A Cataphractii Captain going from 1 wound to 7 in a turn is too funny to miss whilst a Librarian and Lieutenant could both be boosted up in wounds in a single turn. Relics Out of all Relics available, only the Healer's Aegis stands out as a viable choice for him. Offensive weapons like the Teeth of Terra or Acquital are nice and all but really you have already spent 2 CPs on him and do you not need that offensive output on other characters? Same goes for defensive Relics really. The Tarentian Cloak will keep him alive longer, particularly a Primaris Apothecary, bit again, if he's in the fight he's going to die anyway. Especially of left alone. Save that CP/Relic for one of your HQ characters. The exception here is if you are running Aggressors. I can see the point in the Healer's Aegis for these guys. Think carefully about CP usage at this point but if it helps then go for it. I believe it is fairly easy to get models within 1" of him and you don't even need the whole squad to be to benefit the unit (i.e. the first 3 tank the shots). In summary, this upgrade makes a simple Apothecary much more effective a choice yet isn't an auto-include. Have a planned place for him and add him to your army accordingly. Ultimately, this character is strategic. He is expensive in CP usage and you won't find the benefit in every army you play. Use him alongside units that really are elite or tough and he'll amplify their survivability and thus offensive capacity quite well.
  8. With the release of Chapter Approved and it's points drops and new missions, plus the changes recently (Beta Bolters I'm looking at you), is it perhaps the time to revisit this unit? I love Dreads and always have. I AM biased but I do want to make them work as well. The Ironclad has a Toughness of 8 which is substantial and doesn't degrade, but is slow and close ranged. However it can now fire Hurricane Bolters at full effect up to 24" which makes up a little as 12 more shots contributes nicely. A Chainfist is oddly cheaper than the Seismic Hammer yet performs better thanks to D4 and no modifier. Now, in an expensive Storm Raven it is able to cross the table quickly enough but what about marching? It can contribute to shooting infantry and if your list has other stuff it is likely to survive long enough to make it close to something. I was thinking of a Contemptor Ironclad tag team. Oh and Assault Launchers for a 4+ D3 mortal wounds sounds like a no brainer for 5pts. What do people think?
  9. A topic that does what is says on the tin... I like the idea of a mechanised/vehicle heavy marine list. Probably because I played a lot back in the day where Las/Plas tactical squads and Razorbacks were everywhere. While I don't see anything in Ultramarine chapter tactics that lends itself to mobile lists, I'd been keen for some input on how a mechanised Ultramarines army might work. My first thoughts are something like the below: Ultramarines Mechanised List - 1,753pts Battalion Detachment - 3CP - 520 HQ Techmarine - Power Axe, Bolter, Servo-Arm, Frag & Krak Grenades. Points: 49 Lieutenants (2) - Master-Crafted Bolter, Chainsword, Bolt Pistol, Frag & Krak Grenades. Points: 126 TROOPS Scout Squad - Sergeant: Sniper Rifle, Bolt Pistol, Frag & Krak Grenades. - Scouts (4) Sniper Rifle, Bolt Pistol, Frag & Krak Grenades. Points: 65 Scout Squad - Sergeant: Sniper Rifle, Bolt Pistol, Frag & Krak Grenades. - Scouts (4) Sniper Rifle, Bolt Pistol, Frag & Krak Grenades. Points: 65 Tactical Squad - Sergeant: Combi-Melta, Bolt Pistol, Frak & Krak Grenades, Melta Bombs. - Tactical Marines (8): Bolters, Bolt Pistols, Plasma Gun, Frag and Krak Grenades. Points: 143 Dedicated Transports Rhino APC - Storm Bolter Points: 72 Battalion Detachment - 3CP HQ Captain - Terminator Armour, Relic Blade, Storm Bolter, - Sanctic Halo - Adept of the Codex Points: 116 Techmarine - Power Axe, Bolter, Servo-Arm, Frag & Krak Grenades. Points: 49 Elites Cataphractii Terminator Squad - Sergeant: Lightening Claw, Combi-Bolter, Grenade Harness. -Terminators (4): Lightening Claws, Combi Bolters. Points: 170 Troops Tactical Squad - Sergeant: Combi-Plasma, Bolt Pistol, Frak & Krak Grenades, Melta Bombs. - Tactical Marines (8): Bolters, Bolt Pistols, Meltagun, Frag and Krak Grenades. Points: 142 Tactical Squad - Sergeant: Combi-Plasma, Bolt Pistol, Frak & Krak Grenades, Melta Bombs. - Tactical Marines (9): Bolters, Bolt Pistols, Meltagun, Frag and Krak Grenades. Points:155 Scout Squad - Sergeant: Sniper Rifle, Bolt Pistol, Frag & Krak Grenades. - Scouts (4) Sniper Rifle, Bolt Pistol, Frag & Krak Grenades. Points: 65 Dedicated Transports Rhino APC - Storm Bolter Points: 72 Rhino APC - Storm Bolter Points: 72 Spearhead Detatchment - 1CP - 392pts HQ Sergeant Chronus - Bolt Pistol, Servo-Arm, Frag & Krak Grenades. Points: 30 Heavy Support Predator - Predator Autocanon, Lascanons (2), Storm Bolter Points: 182 Whirlwind - Vengeance Launcher, Storm Bolter. Points: 90 Whirlwind - Vengeance Launcher, Storm Bolter. Points: 90
  10. So I was thinking we could create a place to compile and build upon all of our tactics, discussions, army compositions and so forth. All found in one place. We are a relatively small group in the overall B&C and looking at other factions and armies who have their own centralised threads, I thought we could attempt something similar. In saying that, I'd like this to be a tactics thread for Mono-GK but I understand that soup plays a large roll in how people play their grey-armoured daemon killers. In my opinion, I think GK and soup is practically well known at this stage regarding loyal 32, Knights, Guard etc. so hopefully we can keep the focus on mono tactics. So to get the ball rolling, how is everyone faring after CA 2018 and what do we feel are our go to units? I'd like to throw my own opinion out there and say are we falling into the trap of thinking a battalion is our main detachment? I've been thinking of running possibly 3 smaller ones i.e. an outrider, vanguard and spearhead. Would be 6 cp compared to 8-9 cp but with the sorry state our strategems are in at the moment I don't think losing out on 2-3 cp is that bad. My main line of thought behind this is I'd rather have 3 units of Interceptors than Strikes as they provide a lot more flexibility and manoeuvring potential for the high pressure and aggressive lists that GKs should play, in my opinion of course. Obsec has been a non-factor for me so losing that is fine in this edition of hordes. What are peoples thoughts on double battalion? While it greatly increases the CP amount, I feel so much is taken up in troops that it leaves very little for hard hitters.
  11. So all I'm sure many of you are very tempted by the new renegade traits as I am, and I am curious to hear some thoughts on the new renegade chapters and their rules. There's a pretty full review of all the new stuff coming in vigilius here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZN2hmZyzhaI Overall, I think Red Corsairs come out as the strongest of the new chapters, but I'm also biased because I love how those rules really incentivise you to take basic marine squads. I don't really see the point of taking tons of normal marines in any other traitor legion/renegade chapter. Plus their 3cp stratagem to bring back a unit seems incredibly strong to me, especially when a Red Corsairs army will always have loads of CP for that. That being said, The Purge and The Scourged both seem solid to me. Scourged is just solid all around, trait that is always useful along with a good stratagem and warlord trait, while the Purge rules seem to work well with focusing down one target at a time, while shooting into combat from their stratagem is fun. Flawless Host seem sorta middle of the field, Death to the False Emperor against everyone is nice especially since it stacks against imperials, and it seems like with traits/relics they can make some mean characters. Crimson Slaughter and Brazen Beasts seem ok, but not all that exciting. The Crimson Slaughter CP generation is just outclassed by how many CP Red Corsairs start with, though their stratagem is reasonable. Brazen Beast trait doesn't seem all that exciting to me, it would work well for a melee army with units that can output a load of attacks, but then you have to build the army around using that well. I do find it odd though that their warlord trait is just straight up twice as good as the World Eaters trait. What does everyone else think? I'm strongly leaning towards Red Corsairs, but Purge and Scourged are also still in the running for me since they are nice all rounder traits.
  12. Blatantly copying Captain Idaho’s idea here we have the second in a selection of Tactica advice topics for us to work on as a community. This topic will focus on the Jack of All Trades but master of none the Reaver, not as fast as the Warhound and not as heavily armed/armoured as the Warlord nonetheless this is probably going to be the most versatile unit available for a while. As the game is still in its infancy right now, I expect this topic to change and evolve as time goes by and new releases come out. Once all 3 of the main Titans are released we'd probably have a completely different opinion on the tactics and strategy for this engine than now. Reaver Titan Concepts to discuss: - Weapons systems - Tactical uses of this Titan - Load out combinations - Role in Army/Maniple builds - Best counters - Miscellaneous additional content First off I want to discuss the options in the box, most notably the power fist. While the rule of cool says hell yes! Is it actually worth arming with one? Cheers Vogon
  13. To ensure the Bolter and Chainsword continues to be the premium hobby site for everything it covers, this is the first of a selection of Tactica advice topics for us to work on as a community. As the arguably most iconic titan Games Workshop ever produced, this topic will focus on the Warlord Titan. As the game is still in its infancy right now, I expect this topic to change and evolve as time goes by and new releases come out. Once all 3 of the main Titans are released we'd probably have a completely different opinion on the tactics and strategy for this engine than now. Warlord Titan Concepts to discuss: - Weapons systems - Tactical uses of this Titan - Load out combinations - Role in Army/Maniple builds - Best counters - Miscellaneous additional content
  14. Let's talk about Whirlwinds and now to get the best out of them. Whether you play competitive or narrative play I want to know what you think of this unit? I lean towards the Vengeance Launchers not just because of my own army build but because Damage 2 is amazing. What do people think about the Castellen launcher though? I believe if you have a Lieutenant and Techmarine hiding at the back you'll be able to boost killing power and survivability of the artillery. Lastly and somewhat marginally is the Stratagem and Land Speeders... is it any good?
  15. The thing I like about Space Marines is the character creation you can go through. It's where the real customisation lies in our otherwise uniform army. Our character choices, particularly our Warlord choices, affect our army playstyle and build in particular. What sorts of flavour do you like to use with your characters? Who's your Warlord and what's his character? How do you use him? Show us a picture! I'm out the country at the moment so can't take a photo but I will do soon as I get home! **** My army is themed on a Victrix Guard style of Ultramarines, hence why they use a Horus Heresy era style that would be Guilliman approved. MK4 abound, with a few exceptions in the specialist squads (my Vanguard had such great options for heads) and a classic gold and blue colour scheme, my army looks more inspiring than any I had painted before. My army is lead by Captain Aetheleous: Formly of the 5th Company; wielding a plasma pistol and Relic Blade, an ancient power sword of unknown providence. Atheleous is known for being a no-nonsense and fairly humorousless commander among those under his command, though this is perhaps somewhat unfair. Those who get to know him, reserved for only a select individuals, could pick out wry comments many would miss or even assume were serious, such is the subtlety of the expression of his mirth. As befits a Captain of such character, I usually grant Atheleous the Adept of the Codex Warlord trait to simulate his commanding presence. However, I have toyed with the idea of Storm of Fire since it makes sense he would organise a firing line expertly. What do people think of that? I also give him the Sanctic Halo. It's absurdly good and means he's very survivable no matter the modifier he's up against. In fact, against anything with a modifier he's almost as survivable as a Cataphractii Captain (minus the wound). Tactically he rolls up the table in a Rhino along with solid line infantry - either Sternguard or Tactical Marines. Usually the Sternguard. He hits a particular part of the enemy line calculated to rip a hole that can't be easily filled. The way I do this is utilise Vanguard and Cataphractii Terminators (along with another Captain) to provide severe pressure on the opponent so they completely lose the initiative. Taking on the Sternguard isn't always easy in this circumstance.
  16. In this topic I'd like us to discuss our preferred methods for using Sternguard veteran squads in Ultramarines armies. Things to consider: - Unit size - Transportation/delivery methods - role - equipment - army synergy My current build is a fairly simple option - 8 strong, all special issue Bolters and a lightning claw on the Sergeant. This squad goes in a Rhino with a Captain. The unit isn't an isolated attack force, working alongside Cataphractii Terminators and Vanguard. With the Masterful Marksmanship Stratagem they are fairly good at killing stuff, but not to the extent of overkill really. One thing I'm considering is adding special weapons or 2 Heavy flamers. My thoughts on this was to give the unit sharper teeth when jumping out of a Rhino. 2 Heavy flamers are definitely powerful but I toyed with the idea of a pair of melta guns. What do people think about this? The squad is a hit squad so a pair of melta guns could ensure the unit is more decisive against hard targets and characters. However, heavy flamers are still powerful and hard to pass up as it makes the squad dangerous. *** What are you preferences? Someone mentioned once upon a time that Storm Bolters are better and cheaper for Sternguard jumping out of a Rhino. I don't do the maths but I felt AP-2 along with Masterful Marksmanship was quite effective? What else is there regarding this?
  17. This army is the next big thing in competetive games seeing how their gun lines are superb and numerous. How do we best them? I've got theoretical but no practical this edition. Decent terrain is a must against them I feel. For too long an open table has been considered "normal". My initial theoretical are decent numbers (My go to answer) mixed with reasonable fire support and an attack force. I have Cataphractii Terminators and Vanguard who can spear head an attack, along with a Rhino full of Sternguard, which is ideal for most armies but I do worry against Astra Millitarum.
  18. Hi All, Been creeping the forum for a while, but this is my first post (once I have a couple more painted Templars I'll make a post for my crusade). Anyway, I recently went to Warhammer World in Nottingham and purchased the exclusive Primaris Rhino/Land Raider Excelsior box and am wondering if you guys have any good ideas of how to fit them into a list. I can see the LRE working well as an assault vehicle with TH/SS termies since it give re-rolls to 1's, but only having 10 transport capacity makes it hard to fit in the characters that I feel are needed for CC support. I guess keeping it in the backfield with some extra long range support and a Castellan could work too. I'm very interested to hear other ideas
  19. I decided my lists needed more close combat power so I've added Vanguard Veterans to it. My point in creating this thread is to discuss uses and load outs and my peers experiences. I'm thinking Jump Packs are mandatory. The speed is crucial and being able to drop in along with another unit (like Terminators) adds saturation. What sort of wargear do people consider decent? I wanted 3 power axes, Sergeant with twin lightning claws and 3 with Storm Shields and chainswords. The last 3 members I'd get double chainswords for extra oomph. However, the unit isn't overly powerful in assault, particulary against tough targets. Twin lightning claws instead of power axes gives an extra 3 attacks to the unit and rerolling to wound is better than S5 in many cases. Problem is the cost. It mounts up. What do folk consider here? What do you use your Vanguard for? What do you arm them with?
  20. Some say they came to us as saviour whilst others say they were tyrants. The masters to the slaves. Nonesense! Like everything else, they are tools to aid in our galactic supremacy. For a time they held dominion over us but such is the majesty of our race that we soon overthrew them! And now? Their remnants are our puppets. Tools of war. Nothing more regal than the Warscythes of my retainers. C'tan Things to discuss and consider, including but not limited to: - What powers do you prefer? - What Features Personalities are your go to choice? - Do you prefer named C'tan over the Transcendent version? - How do you use your C'tan? - Army build around the unit. - How many do you take? *** It's a difficult one. I love the Nightbringer model and he is a killer but I do also enjoy the Transcendent C'tan for its customisable nature. Healing D3 wounds a turn is just lovely. Imagine that alongside a Destroyer Lord with Phylactery! Though the Nightbringer is an infantry killer. Even Custodes need to be weary of all that 2+ wounding potential. Of course unsupported it won't last long.
  21. Prot opened the flood gates on this one - Knights changing the balance of the system (meta if you like that term). Yes, how's it going to change how we build our "take all comers" lists. So how are we going to defeat Knights lists going forward? What about armies that have a single Knight? Let's discuss it.
  22. An interesting discussion... How do we get the best out of Stratagems when using the Ultramarines? Mentioned in another thread, should we burn through our Stratagems quickly whilst we have the units still alive or save them for later on to for something decisive when both sides have lost a lot of models? I'm thinking it's a matter of using the Stratagems as soon as possible, providing the benefit of doing so is measurably worthwhile. What does this mean? Well, be bold. If you want your Tactical squad jumping out of a Rhino with plasma and Grav Cannon to attack a powerful target then do it while you can soon as you can! Wait too long and the opponent might stop you or blunt the attack. Conversely, save the Command Point if your Sternguard are shooting at stragglers of a unit instead of using Masterful Marksmanship. That's an obvious waste but there will be times when you have similar options. Ask yourself "would I benefit from this Stratagem above and beyond the alternative of not using it?" I want a minimum of 7 Command Points in a 2000pts game, 6 in a 1500pts game. With 7 Command Points, I'll spend them a couple a turn until I have only a couple left then evaluate what I absolutely need to keep the CPs for. I'm not big on the 3 CP Stratagems personally. They are mostly over costed but one exception could be a counter charge with a Terminator squad against something beastly and using Honour the Chapter. Imagine charging into Mortarion with a Terminator squad and Dreadnought. He is unlikely to kill both and if he goes for the Dreadnought then you could hit him with Honour the Chapter. Potentially game winning. Death to the Traitors! looks interesting in a similar manner. I build my list now to use the Stratagems as best I can. It's our strength thanks to Scions of Guilliman, our Warlord Trait and every unit being able to hurt every unit. I make sure I have at least 1 Heavy Bolter so I can use Hellfire Shells. I try to use Sternguard so I can use Masterful Marksmanship. I have strong Tactical squads so I can benefit from Scions of Guilliman. I have Terminators for assault so I can use Death to the Traitors! and Honour the Chapter. Lastly, we have the best Warlord Trait for an army built for Stratagems. Refunds are amazing and will frustrate your opponent. Take Adept of the Codex EVERY TIME people! I'm interested in hearing other peoples musings on the subject. :)
  23. I've been thinking that defeating armies with Mortarion in them will require some quite specific methods, to the extent I considered Frater would want to access that information directly. In this topic we will discuss 2 aspects to the same problem in an aid to winning a game against a Death Guard army - killing Mortarion and beating an army with him in it. I consider killing Mortarion to be quite difficult to do. He's got a monstrous amount of wounds and a nearby sorceror can heal him D3 wounds a turn I believe. Added to Disgustingly Resilient and we have a character that will likely last to the end of the game. So what ideas to players have to kill Mortarion? I'm considering people need help when not using Guilliman or an Imperial Knight. Bracketing him with a Devastator squad for a few turns can drag down his wounds regardless of how tough he is, but it might require some guts to finish him off. He's coming for you! He won't stand there and let you shoot him! Maybe a Terminator squad counter attack would help? Whacking him with power fists is going to hurt but can they survive back? I'm thinking it's Cataphractii and Assault Terminators only who can counter charge him to hold him up. On that note, holding him up whilst we punish his army is the other side of that coin. He costs a lot of points so if he is fighting 5-10 Terminators all game you're still up!
  24. Greetings all. I know there’s a thread called “The Primaris Space Marines (“Primaris SM”) and Space Wolves” but after going through half of its pages, I think the thread is mostly about how Primaris SM fit from a fluff perspective into Space Wolves once introduced. I don’t want to get into that, but after a couple of months into 8th edition and the introduction of the so called “new marines” as we were calling Primaris then, I’m beginning to admit that they’re growing on me. They won’t ever make me abandon my original Space Wolves and go full bandwagon Primaris, but I now want to make the effort to incorporate some of them into my army. In other words, let’s start with how to fit the crunch of the Primaris SM with the Vlka Fenryka. Answer isn’t so clear cut when even among Space Wolves we have so many different varied styles. But I want to give the Primaris SM a go and would like to share my plans and have your feedback on my ideas. So far, I’ve bought a box of Reivers as well as Inceptors. In line with my play style, my troops have the main job of holding the line, grabbing objectives and if necessary, deliver the necessary punch to KO my opponent. Everthing else in my list is to support my troops, be they the Wulfen, the Terminators, the Long Fangs or the Stormwolf/fangs. The Reivers I bought because they looked exceptionally fearsome, and because they’re one of the few Primaris marines who can get around the table without needing the bastard child of a Land Raider and Land Speeder via their grab chutes or grapnel for a measly 4 ppm. A bit pricy but they do have power armour and 2 wounds compared to Wolf Scouts who have 1 wound and 4+. So I’m going to use Reivers to replace my terminators as backline harrassers. Specfically targeting the Ruin Campers who stay on the top floors. If I’m not mistaken, with the grapple hooks, I can deepstrike 9” away vertically from the tall ruin, then completely ignore the 6” height it when I charge. If I do my trigonometry correctly, I’ll only need 5 inches to charge the cover campers. Thus tying up the enemy heavy support for a turn. Meanwhile, my Inceptors will combine with my Stormwolf filled with Wulfen to get in the face Turn 1 and 2, aiming for their other big guns or elite units in a storm of plasma and claws. Troops as always, hold the midfield supporting and softening up everything for the elite troops. Preliminary 2000 list: Njal Stormcaller in termie armour Wolf Lord/Battle leader with Jump Pack 5-6 Wulfen with TH/SS and axes Stormwolf with heavy bolters 3 squads of GH/BC in Assault Cannon razorbacks 2 squads of 5 Reivers with big bolt pistol and CCW 2 squads of Long Fangs with missiles and Las. Autocannon Predator tank Inceptors squad with Plasma extermmintaros Thoughts? Or rather how have you all been using your Primaris? Next primaris I’ll get is most likely the Redemptor Dreadnought, but I don’t like the idea of it stealing the limelight away from Bjorn.
  25. Since nobody has stepped forward, I'll take the burden. I cannot do an in-depth review of every unit, much less maths, so just a few units for now; but that's a nice thing imho, so the community can fill the gaps, correct me when I'm wrong and bring ideas, combos, synergies and what not. And I'm pretty sure that here are some veteran DE players that would put this thread-o-pain in the place it belongs. So deal with me and feel free to contribute and share the pain. Archons. They are decent, but nothing spectacular, have a nice invuln and can take a Ld debuff in the form of the Phantasm GL. For wargear, the classic blast pistol+agonizer is pretty solid. If you want to take a Court of the Archon, Lhamaean and Sslyth are solid, but somewhat expensive. Drazhar. Is a beast in CQC, and buff the Incubi to insane levels of killyness. As like much of the DE stuff, he is better if he manages the charge (which shouldn't be that difficult because he is fast and can ride Raiders with his Incubi pals). To put this in numbers, on the charge a unit of 9 incubi+drazhar would be killing ~4 terminators, ~11 marines or ~17 guardsmen on average. It is not a cheap combo (dudes+ride is about ~430 points) but it can be nasty. Venoms. Awesome transport, screaming to be spammed. They're cheap, can be deadly to infantry with dual Splinter Cannon (12 shots that wound non-vehicles on 4+) forcing a lot of saves (which you can add the firepower of the transported unit if necessary), high mobility at 16". It also have a 5++ save and are hit with a -1 penalty, meaning that plasma weapons aimed at him would overheat on 1-2 on a D6 as per the new FAQ. While not specially tough in the statline, they are cheap and with the Flickerfield, the Night Shield, T6 and a 4+ save they are going to be more durable than the statline suggests. Warriors. Cheap and spammable, armed with splinter rifles and a trusty blaster they are great for dealing extra dmg on enemy units. Regarding Ravagers (always triple lance, unless your meta is really horde-heavy) I'm going to quote the Potato God here: On the Voidravens he's referring to the 6.667 mortal wounds it would deal on average against non-vehicle/monster units of 10+ models. But I also love the Razorwing jetfighter, with dual lances, splinter cannon, and funky missiles it's a very annoying unit (and a really good looking model) that can caress everything for just 170 points. For the Reavers I'm going to just quote Slips, as he grasps them better than me: And lastly I'm going to quote myself regarding Talos because I'm really tired: "If you like big nasty things, triple talos (barebones) can also deal a lot of damage both in the shooting phase and in close combat, and you'll like to have a friendly (if that is even possible) haemonculus near them, for a nice and sweet +1T bonus." Looking forward to see your thought on this. Cheers!
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