= New chapters =

[Captain Pugno]

ooooooooo! blood eagles - i like

 

RAINBOW WARRIORS :cuss!!!!! :) :yes:

[Dazzo]

My objections stem mainly from the fact the fomorians were seen as kind of demons opposed to the Dagda or gods so I feel they should be connected to chaos, where as the fir bolg were kinda like ugly giants but thats by the by, if you have your heart set on orks then go with that but just have them as sea faring rather than aquatic. perhaps they crashed on a remote island chain and so have to travel across the water to reach their prey, and so the people would see them as sea creatures.

 

And technically 3rd eyes would mean 3 eyes not one :yes:

[Philip S]

ooooooooo! blood eagles - i like

That’s good to hear, as I was wondering if I went too far (often do!).

 

I was aiming for a Rogue Trader era feel to them, something ‘Old Skool’.

 

RAINBOW WARRIORS :cuss!!!!! ;) :confused:

They are an old chapter from the very beginning of 40K, that have been neglected over the years and I thought I would re-image.

 

They are still a part of the 40K universe;

http://uk.games-workshop.com/spacemarines/...er%2Dgallery/4/

(bottom row, four from the left).

 

My objections stem mainly from the fact the fomorians were seen as kind of demons opposed to the Dagda or gods so I feel they should be connected to chaos, where as the fir bolg were kinda like ugly giants

It’s a fair point, I suppose. I wonder what the fomorians would become - some form guardian of the other world maybe?

 

Slaaneshie daemon hybrid/ possessed marsh ape (i.e. something like the Fimir from fantasy)?

 

And technically 3rd eyes would mean 3 eyes not one ;)

Stitch up the other two? :P (moot point as I may go for your idea).

 

Philip

[Dazzo]

Are the blood ravens a traitor chapter? they seem much to evil to be good guys, cant say I approve of all that needless cruelty seems wrong :woot:

[Hergrmir]

Nothing particular to add, except to praise you on a ton of good work. I'm really liking the Sons of Rharm and The Dragons as starting concepts.

Perhaps another along similar lines? Something more... Buddhist/SE Asia?

 

You could also do another couple Semitic ones to go along with the Tauromarch, who're a nice idea too.

[Philip S]

Are the blood ravens a traitor chapter? they seem much to evil to be good guys, cant say I approve of all that needless cruelty seems wrong :teehee:

Blood Ravens? You mean the Blood Eagles?

 

Nah, they are not evil or chaos. They are a tribute to the old skool Rogue Trader era of marines, and a personification my own personal beliefs that heroes are first and foremost survivors (and have been around the block a few times) and are just as evil as the ‘evil’ guys in war. Yet unlike the chaos worshippers; at the end of the war, when the dust settles, they go back to being ‘good’.

 

I invasion them as Inquisitor ‘black ops’ units: an anti-loyalist marine chapter, used by the Inquisition when they need a unit as hard as marines to take on marines when official channels are closed (i.e. the use of Sister or Battle, Deathwatch or Grey Knights would be inappropriate if such ‘delicate’ situations).

 

The Blood Eagles are quite happy to slay loyal marines if an Inquisitor told them it was OK. About the only ones they wouldn’t touch would be the Blood Angels and perhaps their successors, but the fist founding Blood Angels are definitely off limits (and Inquisitor who asked the Blood Eagles to attack Blood Angels would be ‘revealing’ themselves as a traitor and executed on the spot – the Blood Eagles are real psycho fanatics, and the Blood Angels are their ‘pure’ version of themselves).

 

Nothing particular to add, except to praise you on a ton of good work. I'm really liking the Sons of Rharm and The Dragons as starting concepts.

Perhaps another along similar lines? Something more... Buddhist/SE Asia?

 

You could also do another couple Semitic ones to go along with the Tauromarch, who're a nice idea too.

Yeah, I planning to expand them, the Dragons have very little info at the moment and the Sons of Rarhm are due for attention. I am plotting some other marine chapters based on Maori (not sure due to IP) and Japanese (Yamataikoku – with Shaman Queen ruler), but it’s getting the concept right (i.e. respectful and fits in with the people’s ethos)

 

Philip

 

EDIT: PS: Updated the pictures for the Sons of Rarhm and the Dragons.

[Dazzo]

Blood Eagles my apologies, theres so many birds covered in blood out there its easy to get confused. I guess I feel that their just a little harsh when it comes to civilians, but having said that my Agenls Puriel are equally as viscious when it comes to deciding what should live and what should die(which is pretty much everything). Mine dont cut people open though they just give them a good hose down with cleansing flame.

 

Also it makes no sense for them to be killing the women of their homeworld thats good breeding stock being wasted there. :teehee:

 

And where the hell are you getting all the cool weapons and swords. And how did you do the inlay work on the bolter, and how 'd get the cloak

[Philip S]

I guess I feel that their just a little harsh when it comes to civilians,

Warrior cultures are rarely ‘nice’, and among the tribes there are no ‘civilians’, as ‘civilians’ would be killed on the spot!

 

Also it makes no sense for them to be killing the women of their homeworld thats good breeding stock being wasted there. :teehee:

I think consideration for genetic principles is encoded into their social and cultural systems and that is why they act the way they do; considering their environment. Unlike backward barbaric worlds (like ours :wub:) they are aware that the idea of one male to many females is fundamentally flawed as it reduces diversity in the Y chromosome within a gene pool and greatly increases the risk that a single male could pass on many copies to the next generation of a Y chromosome that is prone to defects or is defective.

 

Seeing as the women of these tribes are a bit like Valkyries, they are probably not going to forgive you for killing off their husbands and male children/ brothers, and the next time you go to sleep you may never wake up! Hence it is best to kill them too if you have killed their family.

 

Further to this, there is social sigma: women who’s husbands felling combat and their sons who died in the arena are considered to have picked a weak husband (poor judgement and desire for a male who does not embody the virtues of the warrior), and bred weak children, both genetically and a failure in bringing up their child to be an effective fighter. This marks the women as poor ‘breading stock’ and it is considered in the interests of all (greater good?) just kill her outright than have her weakness infect the rest of the tribes (best get them into the recycling units and get those atoms back in the system and let mother nature resource better stock).

 

However, even if the young male survives and start the long journey to become a Space Marine the mother and sisters would still not be ‘breeding stock’ to males of the winning tribes who already have a wife. They are considered serfs in a round about way, but they have the right to fight other women for the right to marry (basically she’s going to have to knock out a rival and claim her husband!). They will not be killed because although their tribe lost, at least their child or brother was tough enough to become a marine, and having a marine in the family makes anyone think twice about messing with them.

 

And where the hell are you getting all the cool weapons and swords. And how did you do the inlay work on the bolter, and how 'd get the cloak

I doodle on them, as for the cloak it is one of a pair that may or may not appear in the wargear module. The other is a pimpalicious leopard skin lined number for particularly fly marines.

 

Yeah, I know I said I would never do any art for a fan site, and it’s breaking my own rules, but David and Dominic have done such wonderful work I felt compelled to chip in a least a little something (it just seems rude not to!). Never know, I may chip in a few other bits!

 

Philip

[Dazzo]

are considered to have picked a weak husband

Ahh so its the women that choose a man not the other way around? I guess if the women had a more dominant role in society then they could be seen as equals and there by killing them would not be stigmatised.

 

However if you have a strong warrior why shouldnt he have more females, surely it would be desirable for him to pass on as much genetic material as is possible there by strengthening the socitey he is part of. Could not the women be given a choice of dying in combat or choosing to yeild to the killer of their mate if said killer was desirable as a husband. Neither would be seen as dishonourable, as death would bring honour to the dead and taking a new husband as an intelligent and socially, whats the word, beneficial. Both choices could remove the stain from the children and be seen as a way of buying their survival.

 

Yeah, I know I said I would never do any art for a fan site, and it’s breaking my own rules, but David and Dominic have done such wonderful work I felt compelled to chip in a least a little something (it just seems rude not to!). Never know, I may chip in a few other bits!

If rules cant be broken what good are they :wub:, share your prodigious gifts with us lesser talented mortals I say, or at least the weapons and cloaks :teehee:

[Philip S]

are considered to have picked a weak husband

Ahh so its the women that choose a man not the other way around? I guess if the women had a more dominant role in society then they could be seen as equals and there by killing them would not be stigmatised.

The women of the winning tribes may be responsible for killing the women of the loosing tribes. It may be possible that a woman who fought well in a tribe may gain respect, and may be given the chance to fight for survival in a duel. Though I suspect this is rare and an exception and only in exceptional circumstances i.e. tribe weakened by a feud is attack by another tribe taking advantage, this may be enough to gain leverage, perhaps the woman calls out the other tribe for dishonour by using superior numbers and challenges, but she would need the backing of other tribes. It don’t think this would be ‘official rules’ more what she could get way with through force of will (which in turn proves her ability, as she is not relying on the ‘law’ to save her).

 

However if you have a strong warrior why shouldnt he have more females, surely it would be desirable for him to pass on as much genetic material as is possible there by strengthening the socitey he is part of.

No, because he would be passing on too much of his genetic material which would lead to skewing of the gene pool to favour his characteristics (the path to Ab-Humans/ Ogryn) and making the gene pool vulnerable due to lack of diversity (remember all those bio-agents/ pathogens in the snow?)

 

If rules cant be broken what good are they :teehee:

Too true, and I’ll see what I can do.

 

Philip

[Dazzo]

No, because he would be passing on too much of his genetic material which would lead to skewing of the gene pool to favour his characteristics (the path to Ab-Humans/ Ogryn) and making the gene pool vulnerable due to lack of diversity

That seems ,well, utterly opposed to all known instances of human evolution, the strong survive and the weak fall, the strong take what they want and they impose their stamp on society, now it sounds to me like these are not a cerebrally driven people, they seem pretty savage. And its one thing to say the chemicals cause problems but what if the reason they are strong is because they have developed some immunity to the poisons. The stance you are taking is pretty much ensuring that that resistance is being ignored/denied to the people of this world. Now granted it might not be the case that immunity is not in the make up of these people, but surely healthy humans should be encouraged to take multiple partners so healthy genes are passed on. And the diversity thing isnt an issue, as long as there are plenty of people to provide a wide genetic base then 3-4 wives wont be a problem, all they would need is a record of who their parents were to ensure no inbreeding occurs. This is why killing the children seems self defeating as they are radically reducing the variety of genes in the mix.

 

You argue for culling as a means of making sure only the strong survive but at the same time limit who can breed with who and so it doesnt matter if the strong survive because their contribution will be limited anyway. What measure are their to ensure births keep pace with deaths?

[Philip S]

That seems ,well, utterly opposed to all known instances of human evolution, the strong survive and the weak fall, the strong take what they want and they impose their stamp on society, now it sounds to me like these are not a cerebrally driven people, they seem pretty savage.

That is all still happening, except it is on a group level rather than an individual level. It is really not that much different from people being in monogamous relationships.

 

If you think about it, a successful family with lots of children with qualities that make them superior for a given environment will dominate;

In effect, instead of the father having several wives, he has several sons (with one wife) who each takes a single wife of their own. In effect the same Y chromosome is being passed on to multiple women but the generation gap allows for (possible) variation and the chance a 'good' copy will be passed on. From a genetic (Y chromosome) point of view, it is the same as if the father porked all the son’s wives (genetically speaking half of him has - creepy!)

 

Genetics, and how genes spread is an interesting subject :down:

 

And its one thing to say the chemicals cause problems but what if the reason they are strong is because they have developed some immunity to the poisons.

Problems? The bio-agents are lethal, that why expansion of the bio-domes is prohibited. No one is resistant to Dark Age bio-weapons!

 

And the diversity thing isnt an issue, as long as there are plenty of people to provide a wide genetic base then 3-4 wives wont be a problem

It is a problem for the Y chromosome, because the man is passing on the same Y chromosome. If the 3 or 4 women each had their own partner; then they are getting a different version of the Y in their offspring.

 

Also, in the case of disease and defects, limiting the number of partners is advisable, i.e. if a male has a difficult to spot infection (AIDS, but new) he will pass it on to all his wives, if it’s one that’s bad, it it 3 or 4 that’s worse.

 

It seems to me that it is a ‘default’ male fantasy that they can have lots of wives/ lovers and it doesn’t matter, unfortunately for males it does matter in the long term for a population. Though we only notice it now because we have comprehensive records spanning many generations and the ability to look at genetics.

 

It is interesting that in reality the Y chromosome seems to have deteriorated over time and is, in modern man, in a bit of a state. The measures used by the tribes in this fantasy world are designed to counter that deterioration. In a way, this set up takes into account the deterioration in the Y chromosome, and projects into the future where it may actually be a problem! (Not a lot of men know how messed up the Y chromosome really is….)

 

The simple rule of thumb for males (in this society) is to have one wife and many children; and let nature take a few, and combat take a few more. The survivors (male) then take a wife of their own (this also hold true for the women, they fight too!).

 

What measure are their to ensure births keep pace with deaths?

The killing is when space runs out and resources are spread so thin that people would start to die from starvation unless the population is reduced.

 

The only ones that can really leave this world are marines.

 

Philip

[Brother Cambrius]

Thanks for teaching me some biology Phil. :) Now I know where I went wrong in the exams. :rolleyes:

 

Blood Eagles: Me like a lot. Will any more be added to it?

 

Cambrius

[Philip S]

Thanks for teaching me some biology Phil. :( Now I know where I went wrong in the exams. :D

:D

 

I like reading about genetics, often because it flies in the face of common sense (well common sense based on not having a clue, it all make sense once you read up on it, though a lot of preconceived ideas fall by the wayside)

 

Blood Eagles: Me like a lot. Will any more be added to it?

I think I will after I have added a bit to the others. As a homage to RT I've added a combat accessory to the bolter.

 

It may be interesting to look at the tribes, and this may give a better understanding off how the marines function, and why everyone accepts the system. In their mind what they are doing is right for ideological reasons (great way to justify acts that would make most blanch), to them; they are preserving their genetics to 'human warrior standard' and at the same time supplying a marine chapter with recruits who are perhaps some of the nastiest marines going (some form of pride for that!) and close links with the Inquisition (which has got to be a huge plus in the Imperium).

 

All in all, the tribes may really like their system. and it is a big system. It's not like everyone is dying all the time. As an analogy to understand the mindset of this competitive society, those who fail in 'war' are probably looked at with the same regard as homeless people are regarded in our society. Some may feel for them, but others see it as a good opportunity to attack/ belittle someone without comeback (bum-fights anyone?): pit two desperate people with low self esteem against each other for a prize.

 

Are they really that different from humans now?

 

Philip

[Allerka]

Ok, I finally had a chance to go over all these Chapters myself, as well as read up on this thread (Interesting to see how some of the Chapters have evolved a bit based on feedback). I think my two favorites are the Blood Eagles and Rainbow Warriors, followed by the Certified (I've known for years the English, much like the Japanese, are utterly insane, even without having to go there to know :rolleyes: Of course, I'm part Welsh myself, so I can relate).

 

I might even just use the Blood Eagles in a future story, I think their personality type would make a good dynamic against my Lords of Oblivion (Who are obsessed with their duty to humanity).

 

I wonder about the Rainbow Warriors, though. If they get their hearts cut out as part of the initiation, that means the secondary heart they get is the only one they have. Kinda puts them at a disadvantage, doesn't it? Also, they fell by the wayside a bit as the years went on, but they may have been picked back up by GW. The new Chaos codex includes a number of new factions, including one labeled as "The Reborn", and their notes state they have "corroded armor and antiquated weaponry". The symbol for them also partially resembles the one the RW's have. As far as GW is concerned, there's a vague implication the RW's suffered at least a partial purge from the SoBs, they disappear for years, and now there's this. Might not be related, dunno, but I thought you'd like to know.

[Philip S]

I think my two favorites are the Blood Eagles and Rainbow Warriors, followed by the Certified

The Blood Eagles seem to be quite popular!

 

I’m glad you like the Rainbow Warriors, to turn them around from a ‘joke’ to something actually liked gives me a great sense of vindication that it was worth trying :)

 

I might even just use the Blood Eagles in a future story, I think their personality type would make a good dynamic against my Lords of Oblivion (Who are obsessed with their duty to humanity).

Knock yourself out - it’s a real kick to read stories inspired by my waffle!

 

I wonder about the Rainbow Warriors, though. If they get their hearts cut out as part of the initiation, that means the secondary heart they get is the only one they have. Kinda puts them at a disadvantage, doesn't it?

Yeah, that’s not too clear is it :blush: - they get a replacement heart (they get a ‘secondary’ one later)

 

The new Chaos codex includes a number of new factions, including one labeled as "The Reborn", and their notes state they have "corroded armor and antiquated weaponry". The symbol for them also partially resembles the one the RW's have.

The Death Strike chapter also has a similar symbol!

 

Hmm, if so, here’s are rough an ready idea;

 

Clans (idea)

There are seven clans that contribute to the Rainbow Warriors, each clan represents one of the 7 generation ships that brought the first people’s to Tonal III. Each clan is identified with a colour and a guardian spirit, one colour for each of the colours of the Rainbow (7! Bit of a fluke it matches the number of ‘caves’ is the real mythology!).

 

Red - Phoenix

Orange – Piranha (‘red-belly’, but it’s kinda orange!)

Yellow - Leopard

Etc. (haven’t figured it out yet!)

+++++++++++++++

Edit:

Green - snake

Blue- frog ('blue frog' (ding!) induces madness/ 'hypno-toad')

Indigo - bird (giant carnivorous type)

Violet - shadow spider ('purple' kneed tarantula)

+++++++++++++++

 

Anyway; Clan Red of the Phoenix, who’s brothers all take names of various red colours, i.e. Brother Crimson, Brother Alizarin, Brother Vermillion (to denote squad position not true names) are the ones who got stomped by the Sisters of Battle.

 

All marines descended from this clan were hunted down and terminated and the clan on the home world eradicated! This was despite the best efforts of their fellow brothers to stop the Sisters (en masse/ surprise attack/ ambush). However, as they’re of the Phoenix, they seem to have arisen from their destruction and continue to help their brothers even though they are chaos...

Hmm, nice start not sure about the ending, it’s missing a certain something.

 

As an after thought, perhaps the Death Strike can be from a clan Yellow colony (Leopard)? If GW are anything to go by, their founding is probably unknown! :P

 

Philip

[Crimson Kommando]

I hate my computer....every time I get a good post it eats it! So I'm gonna do this in list format because I'm sick and tired of rewriting a super long, paragraphed post><

 

Rainbow Warriors

-I really like the Clans idea, and maybe they have seven (then reduced to six) fighting companies, with vet.'s integrated heavily into their company and the Chapter Master never leaving his company, instead leading it, giving that company more importantance in the Chapter for the Masters lifetime. The Chapter Master is chosen through some kind of trial so as to not show favortism to any particular company.

 

-Also like the Generation ships idea, and maybe they use the hulks of those ships as training grounds or smaller monastaries or something.

 

-For Clans, first, I think you meant Pirhanna, if we are talking about the same carniverous fish. Maybe the pirhanna's of the world are orange-bellied, makes sense, as it is a different world and all, and fish tend to be very brightly colored. Second, maybe Green is a snake, as snakes played a part in Aztec mythology. The naming thing is cool as well.

 

-The idea that the Red Clan still wants to assist their brothers after the Sisters went after them is cool. It shows that even though some touchy/overly possesive/secretive Inquisitor/Official wanted them gone, that they don't hold a grudge against their brother Marines.

 

As for my favorite Chapters, I like the Sharks (both Chapters), as anything to do with the fleet is awsome in my book (I'm a fleet nut). The Dragons are really cool as well, as your take on the dragon theme is different (using the different types of dragons from Chinese myth), and I like dragons, so yeah....I'm biased. Also digging the Aquamarines.

 

I haven't seen anything on the Death Strikes founding, and I own the one place that they are mentioned, so it's up to you on what founding they are.

[Philip S]

Rainbow Warriors

-I really like the Clans idea, and maybe they have seven (then reduced to six) fighting companies, with vet.'s integrated heavily into their company and the Chapter Master never leaving his company, instead leading it, giving that company more importantance in the Chapter for the Masters lifetime. The Chapter Master is chosen through some kind of trial so as to not show favortism to any particular company.

I originally thought it would a natural match up to the Ultramarine company colours, but I’m now thinking they may not be as codex as they appear, and each squad may have a mixture of all clans with the various colours (if checked out they can just jump like to like!)

 

I’m thinking leaders wear white (all colours combined) and Librarians wear black (and also count as priests, and shepherds of the ‘dead’ at ritual time).

 

-Also like the Generation ships idea, and maybe they use the hulks of those ships as training grounds or smaller monastaries or something.

That they still exist? Hmm, I’ll have a think about that, I always though of the generation ships as ‘drop pod’ transports, and the main super structure, depleted of fuel just stayed in space (perhaps all locked together to for a space station – or the ‘day star’)

 

-For Clans, first, I think you meant Pirhanna, if we are talking about the same carniverous fish. Maybe the pirhanna's

Pirhanna? You mean Piranha!

 

It’s easily done ;)

 

(I change the ‘a’ for a ‘i’ :P)

 

Second, maybe Green is a snake, as snakes played a part in Aztec mythology.

Yes they did – yoink! (now added, and the others just popped into my head!)

 

-The idea that the Red Clan still wants to assist their brothers after the Sisters went after them is cool. It shows that even though some touchy/overly possesive/secretive Inquisitor/Official wanted them gone, that they don't hold a grudge against their brother Marines.

I have a feeling the red clan may have been killed for other reasons then heresy, perhaps they have a insight, or a prophecy about the ‘phoenix’ and the ‘star child’ - and the inquisition silenced them? Or perhaps killed off those who knew? Red clan a shadow of it’s former self.

 

Also digging the Aquamarines.

It’s not just me then! (Actually Dazo liked them too)

 

I haven't seen anything on the Death Strikes founding, and I own the one place that they are mentioned, so it's up to you on what founding they are.

Cool.

 

I’m thinking that the yellow clan have a colony on a nearby world, which contributed to the Rainbow Warriors for a while but in time gave rise to a new chapter. The ‘Death Strike’ is a bit like the ‘Strikes of Xolotol’ given (by me) as the Rainbow Warriors true (translation of local language) name, perhaps a single colour resulted in a fresh translation?

 

Philip

[Dazzo]

(Actually Dazo liked them too)

Very much so, the face plate on the helmet is inspired :o

 

If you think about it, a successful family with lots of children with qualities that make them superior for a given environment will dominate;

Ok youve convinced me, your grasp of genetics is vastly superior to my own. Its just I really dont like waste, and killing females is a waste, but as you point out its probably just cos im a man :P

[Brother Cambrius]

I just noticed something Phil.

 

You keep saying "looses" instead of losses. :D

 

It sounds pretty strange about reading how loose a chapter is. :tu:

 

Hope you can edit that,

Cambrius

 

PS I've put your chapter site as one of my favourites. :rolleyes: I must create one like that someday. If I do, do you mind if I mention some of your chapters with mine? eg my Star Tridents and your Tridents?

[Philip S]

the face plate on the helmet is inspired :)

Cheers mate!

 

Its just I really dont like waste, and killing females is a waste

In this case they are waste. Grisly as it seems, the system would fail if all lived.

 

It's funny I was just reading about China’s population problems and the shortfall of females. It just goes to show that environment pressures can have a huge impact how people perceive their offspring. Males are preferred as heirs, so females are aborted, but there will be no heirs without a female being involved.

 

In a future setting, the solution would be to give females equal rights as males, and remove the idea that a female is a burden (dowries). I wonder if in reality something similar happens, after all females are become rare, how long until the grooms are paying ‘dowries’ to the bride to secure marriage?

 

You keep saying "looses" instead of losses. :drool:

Sharp eyes – nice catch – corrected!

 

If I do, do you mind if I mention some of your chapters with mine? eg my Star Tridents and your Tridents?

I do not mind at all, knock yourself out - I look forward to seeing what you come up with!

 

Philip

[Mattastic]

Just a thought: have you proposed some of these photoshopped armour designs for the next version of the Space Marine painter? Some of the less chapter-specific stuff, such as the chest armour for the Space Sharks or the abdominal armour for the Aquamarines would make very characterful additions. Or the plasma pistol design of the Sons of Rarhm marine.

[Philip S]

Just a thought: have you proposed some of these photoshopped armour designs for the next version of the Space Marine painter?

Yep, I've submitted a couple of cloaks (Like the one of the Dragons marine), and when I get the template, i may submit a few more! (I may redo the fur cloak on the Blood Eagle marine and submit that too!)

 

Philip

[Philip S]

Updated the Tauromarch Corps with some experimental background/ organisation system.

 

Thoughts?

 

Philip

[Brother Cambrius]

I've noticed you've changed the gene-seed of the Tridents. I can't think why...

 

Also, The Crimson Fists are spelt wrong on the gene-seed Dragons.

 

Cambrius