Necrons

[Artangel]

Hi Folks

 

My Mate has just gotten a Necron army up and running and they seem realy nasty any advice on how to knock them down.

 

The problems I seem to be having are as follows.

 

1) Resurection orb getting a +3 armour save then 2 I'll be cack rolls of a 3+.

 

2) Monolith dragging his troops back 18 inches even if there in combat.

 

3) Shed loads of gauss cannons glancing my vehicles on a roll of a 6.

 

Any advice will be greatly apreciated.

[Rob the lurker]

WWB is 4+. not 3+. If you hit em with ID or PW in close combat then they do not get the first WWB

 

Don't use vehicles really - unless its a daemon posessed vindi so it can keep shooting

 

Simple tactics are:

 

1) Try to kill the lord

2) Destroy whole squads at one go, unless there is res orb / other unit within 6inches they can't res or teleport through the monolith

3) the monolith can only tele 1 squad a turn! and it cannot teleport at all if there is anyone within 1inch of the doorway, as the troops cannot exit.

4) go for phase out - so kill anything with the Necrons special rule.

 

Also - go searchy on the tactica forums, there are 2 / 3 threads i think, some will deal with loyalist scum squads, but anything they can do we can do better....

[Kingin]

IF he is going to take a Monolith try and take that down 1st with a good amount of lascannons (take a good amount of Lascannons) also metla special rule doesn't effect the Monolith. IDing is a good way to kill Necrons, also he most likely take tomb spiders and they can have a unit do WWB rule in 12 inch. The lord is crazy and could do crazy things when given the right equipment. Have a lot of high strength and low ap weapons(there armor save is 3+) to ID them. Also spread your troops out because if he deep strikes his monolith he is going to put it where the most targets are, they get this 18 inchs or 3d6 inches and the Monolith rolls a d6 for each target and whatever number it is he fires that many shots at that target, so he can fire 6 gauss weapons at a squad or a tank!

 

Hope this helps!

[Garou24]

I play Necrons. They were my first army and only army right now since I am still painting my Chaos.

A few tips for you...

 

Like was mentioned the Necrons We'll Be Back roll is a 4+. They only get 1 WBB roll. The only time they can take a second is if they are being ported through the monolith Portal. So if your friend is trying to roll a second WBB roll without porting them through the monolith, then he is either mis-informed or cheating you.

 

Some people starting out seem to think the Ressurection Orb gives them another WBB roll. All the Res Orb does is allow necrons to get a their one and only WBB roll under circumstances where they normally would not. Like Instant death from a weapon double their toughness and Power Weapons in close combat etc. And this only effects units within 6" of the Lord with the Orb. IF he has a Tomb Spider in his then any unit within 12" of the Tomb Spider can get their WBB roll as long as there is another unit of the SAME type on the board. The tomb spider does nto act as a res orb, so to get up from power weapons etc, they still need to be within 6". Necrons only get the WBB roll if there are like units. So his Immortals cannot use the warriors nearby to get back up, it would have to be another unit of Immortals.

 

Necrons main weakness is Close Combat. Almost any unit in CC with necrons will win. Necrons have just 1 attack and very low initiative. Get your chaos right up in their face and tie them up.

The monolith can pull a unit out of close combat, but only 1 unit per monolith. If the Lord has a Veil of Darkness then he can pull another unit out. But only if that unit is within 6" and then that means the lord and his res orb are most likely seperated from the main force. Then you can use your power weapons and make sure the necrons stay down.

 

Focus on 1 squad at a time seems to work well. If you can down the unit and there are no other necrons of the SAME type within 6", then that unit is removed fromt eh board and does not get a WBB roll. If you cause a necron unit in Close Combat to flee you will almost always whipe them with a sweeping advance. due to their low initiative it is almost impossible for them to roll higher than you. If a unit is killed due to sweeping advance those models are removed fromt he game and do not get a WBB roll.

 

Ignore the monolith. Unless you have a dedicated heavy weapons unit with lascannons in it, its best to leave the monolith alone. Yes its a nasty tank, but your main concern should be phasing the necrons out. Focus your fire on the troops and thin them down. If you have a las predator or havocs, use them on the monolith, but I would not waste any other units fire power on it. The quickest way to end necrons is to cause them to phase out. At the beginning of a necron players turn, they make their WBB rolls, after their WBB rolls are made, if that army is at or under 25% of their total necron units, they phase out and you automatically win that game. Example, your playing a 1500 point game, your buddy has 50 total NECRON models in his list. His Phase out number is 13. if say at turn 4 after his WBB rolls are made, he has 13 models or less, the loses right then. the game ends. Pariahs and Scarabs do not have the necron rule, so they do not count towards this number.

 

Yes all his weapons can glance your tanks on a to hit roll of 6. There is not much you can do for this, try and get his units in Close combat so they can't shoot out.

 

Hope this was helpful.

[Captain Uriel]

I totally agree with Garou24, ignore the monolith. also killing the Nightbringer or Deciever is easy with a force weapon( librarian or Sorceror or Grey Kinght Grand Master) and since the Nightbringer is inly I 4 he won't even be able to fight. If you can't or don't want to use a force weapon shoot it to pieces( Heavy Bolters work nicely aas do anti- tank guns). Never spend to much shoot in one place but, and I know this sounds contradictory, take out whole units so there is no WBB role at all. Also, try to knock out any Tomb Spiders he has right away so that if you kill a squad it can't vome back. I've never lost to a Necron army :blush: and its all about carefully picking your battles. Like engaging his troops with an HQ powerhouse with a weapon that ignores saves, while shooting the crap out of his combat and HQ units. Hope this helps you out in defeating the Necrons in the future :D

[chillin]

I, like Uriel, have never lost to necrons (it's not that I'm awesome player or anything, that's the only army I can say that about, I just have their number I guess).

I also totally avoid/ignor the monolith, you can shoot at it all game and not scratch it. I concentrate on units that will cause phase out, and I have never had a necrons army not phase out on me. I mean I won't even fire a bolter at something that will not cause phase out.

Concertrate your shooting and your assaults, multiple units shooting/assaulting 1 of his.

As for your list, don't take too much expensive stuff, you want lotsa bodies = lotsa shooting and assault. I respectfully disagree w/ kingin about taking LC's to blow up monolith, they are too expensive (cost more the 3 meltas) and you can shoot them at the monolith all day and not hurt it. He is right about the instant death thing though, but don't under estimate the effect of massed fire power and hth either. Do get into hth ASAP, but as often as not I cause phase out in the shooting phase.

Good Luck, hope this helps ;)

Let us know how your next game goes.

[Artangel]

Thanks Guys

 

Realy helpfull advice I will put it into practice tonight. I think there may of been a slight mix up on the rules it was his first time of playing but I could of sworn I read he got a 3+ roll on a WBB if he had 2 monoliths?.

 

Thanks again:)

[tacklbry]

With Two Monoliths, the previous advice should really help. The key to beating Necrons is the phase out. Go for this at the expense of all else. Ignore units that are not considered Necron in order to mop up those that are. Taking him below 25% is not as hard as it might seem if he has bulked up points in pariahs and monoliths.

[Rob the lurker]

The ONLY way to get a 3+ WBB roll is with a Phalanx, which is Apocalypse only....

[Spreader]

I totally agree with Garou24, ignore the monolith. also killing the Nightbringer or Deciever is easy with a force weapon( librarian or Sorceror or Grey Kinght Grand Master) and since the Nightbringer is inly I 4 he won't even be able to fight. If you can't or don't want to use a force weapon shoot it to pieces( Heavy Bolters work nicely aas do anti- tank guns). Never spend to much shoot in one place but, and I know this sounds contradictory, take out whole units so there is no WBB role at all. Also, try to knock out any Tomb Spiders he has right away so that if you kill a squad it can't vome back. I've never lost to a Necron army :blush: and its all about carefully picking your battles. Like engaging his troops with an HQ powerhouse with a weapon that ignores saves, while shooting the crap out of his combat and HQ units. Hope this helps you out in defeating the Necrons in the future :D

 

Being a new chaos player, and a Necron player since the start of 4th I had to comment.

 

Uriel, your statement of "I've never lost to a Necron army" surprised me. I don't doubt that it's true after reading all the units your used to seeing. I've found Necrons to be only successful in cohesive (boring) configurations. When I play what I call a "tourney" list it always has multiple units and never has what the Necrons pretend to call "assault" units. My tourney lists put the hurt big time on balanced Chaos lists more so even then the Imperialist dogs.

 

To correct a point from above...

- don't bother getting your standard libby/sorceror/lord into Nightie/Deceivie unless you want to get OWNED by a toughness 8 close combat monster

 

Some pointers on beating the true steel legion (that go along with a great thread by Garou)...

- bodies count for everything, go for quantity not quality. necrons kill everything as equals and ignore everything that makes your units special

- high strength weapons only matter against small units (destroyers), if you can bring down the destroyers, you have bought yourself the advantage of range

- don't feed the crons piecemeal, because the highly mobile nature of the crons allow them to stack alot of their units against any of yours that are isolated/out in front

- get into multiple combats at once. the magic number is three. usually i can pull two squads a turn (one lith one veil) so theres nothing i can do to help the third unit

- assault one of theirs with TWO of yours. necrons SUCK in combat, they can take the hit but they cant put out wounds. go for overkill and double their numbers, when they fail, they will break, and you WILL overrun

- take lots of small units, move forward all at once. because cron units are big and pointy, they wont be able to carry wounds over after the nuke a squad, which means one out of two will get through the fire unharmed

 

Phew, how to kill my own army, by Mike H!

[FerrumIgnatus]

I've had little experience with playing against Necrons, but back in those days when I played against them, I tried to Phase 'em out to whatever tombworld they came from. And if I remember correctly, the Phase Out rule occured when you had obliterated 70% of the army.

 

Hence:

Direct your firepower against the troops and other Necron constructs that can easily be brought down, and redirect your firepower when you've nothing else then a Nightbringer/Deciever, Necron Lord, Pariahs or Monolith(s) in range. When you've come to this stage, they'll usually use their "Phase Out" rule and babble something in a "Arnie" voice like "We'll be back!".

[Jaspercation]

i've only fought necrons once, and they are a massively tough army, mainly dont take tanks if you can help it, i made the mistake of taking a hammerhead when i collected tau, yeah even tau railguns have a hard time taking out a necron monolith, taking a large anti armour devastator squad if your sure he has a monolith and try and keep them out of trouble until they have a good shot on it.

 

the lord is probably your first target, try to spread your fire though, as it is a tough character, so dont waste it all on him, its a mistake i've seen loads of people do, they rightly focus on the lord, kill it, but by then they have all manner of metallic creatures amongst them. also it may be handy to have a couple of hard hitting unit to assault, it may sound scary but its more scary when pariahs and flayed ones are charging into you.

 

best tip though has to be, find out almost everything about his army and prepare for the worst!

[Captain Idaho]

as a Necron player i can tell you that against marine armies the Necrons really struggle. its all down to the fact they just dont have the weapons to penetrate heavy infantry, apart from a monolith but then they have to choose between the AP3 pie plate or teleporting a unit a turn.

 

2+ armour saves are just disgusting for Necrons to face. they cant take them on, simply. if they put the firepower needed to take them down, the rest of your army is going to romp them to pieces. its hard enough to match the power armour let alone take on them plus Terminators!

 

as for target priority, take down any Destroyers as first choice, Immortals second, after whatever is tactically convienient at the time. reason being; Necron firepower is poor without those units. basic Necron warriors only have bolt guns that can glance vehicles, against infantry they will really struggle. especially against Chaos infantry which have more attacks than Warriors and access to special/heavy weapons.

 

if you want to take vehicles, take load or none. small numbers will be easy meat, but large amounts of MCs and vehicles require all the consentration of a Necron player to tackle, leaving those same 5 Necron units unable to target your infantry. say you have a Daemon Prince, Dreadnought/Defiler, 2 Predators and a Terminator squad, you can guarantee the Necron player will struggle to take down all of it and your Chaos marines.

 

when we talk about the Nightbringer, its not that good an idea to take him on relying on a Force weapon to take him down! i cant remember who said that, but that is such a bad idea! you need to hit on a 4+ with your 5 attacks (at best), then wound on a 6 and then the Nightbringer has to fail his invulnerable save! just not worth the points of a sorceror for 8 games straight until you manage to pull it off!

 

in fact, just avoid him if you can, save yourself heart ache!

[Tokunator]

I play Necrons on a regular basis and I concur with the previous speakers.

 

- Basically ignore anything that does not have the Necron Rule (monoliths, scarabs, Spyders, C'tan) as long as you have other targets. Even the Nightbringer is not that scary as it costs about 18 Necron warriors and thus reduces the Phase Out Number significantly.

 

- Take out one kind of Necron before moving to the next to prevent WBB rolls. The best order is Destroyers, Immortals and then Warriors. Ignore the Lord unless you can take him out for sure.

 

- If you use Lash, try to pull one unit out of 12" of any Spyders and 6" of any other unit of the same type and then give that unit hell.

 

- Remember that Monstrous Creature like Daemon Princes and Greater Daemons count as 10 models, so if you combine them with a decent-sized unit and charge, you should get a good modifier for outnumbering (most Necron players I know run 10-12 Warriors per unit) and thus break them. And as your initiative is much better that theirs, they will die while running away (and run down Necrons can't get back up).

 

- A Lord can only teleport with a unit if it is within 6" of him. The Monolith can only teleport units within 18". So again, Lash is your friend.

 

- Obliterators rule. Only the big shot of the Monolith or Heavy Destroyers can touch them, and you should be able to take out the Heavy destroyers (which are rarely seen anyway) before the Obliterators come in. Even if they can get back up, 3 plasma templates or 6 twin-linked plasma shots will bring the hurt on a unit. Again, try to mop up stranglers after such a volley to eventually prevent WBB rolls (one survivor allows anyone in 6" to roll for WBB).

 

- Havocs with Missile Launchers rule. They can hurt Spyders or take down Destroyers on a 2+ (never take Frag missiles) or even shoot a Monolith if there is no other target. 6 with 4 launchers only cost 170 points and can wipe out entire Destroyer squadrons in a go.

 

- Ahriman's boys are also great against Necrons, as they can unleash a truckload of AP 3 shots to wipe out units. They are probably the best anti-necron unit in the Chaos list.

[orous]

just so you know:

 

the monolith's Whip uses the small blast template, not the pie sized variety.

all the crons players in my area didnt notice that, they see 'ordinance' and pick up the bigger, but the profile says 'Ord 1/blast'

not 'Ord 1/large blast'.

 

all the other rules for ordinance apply, like scatter, its just the small blast.

[Captain Idaho]

just so you know:

 

the monolith's Whip uses the small blast template, not the pie sized variety.

all the crons players in my area didnt notice that, they see 'ordinance' and pick up the bigger, but the profile says 'Ord 1/blast'

not 'Ord 1/large blast'.

 

all the other rules for ordinance apply, like scatter, its just the small blast.

 

actually you are wrong. if you take a look at Codex Imperial Guard, all the ordnance weapons state the same thing; Ordnance1/Blast. not got the evidence to hand, but fairly certain the rulebook supports that Ordnance blasts use the large template.

 

so <_<

[Tokunator]

Yup, the only exception are weapons which use the Large Blast template without being Ordnance (for example Barbed Stranglers) which specify that by saying Large Blast.

[orous]

quoting page 30 of the 4th ed. rule book, under the large blasts sub title;

 

There are 2 sizes of blast marker: the normal one and the large one. nearly all blast weps use the normal, while ord weps use the large.

Some ord weps have optional ammo that doesnt use the large blast marker. these have all the rules for ord weps, even thou the small blast is used.

 

hmm. i read this through and i guessed i miss-read the rules.

 

you see, in the chaos dex all the ord weps say 'ord 1, large blast', but in the crons dex the whip only says blast.

all three of the guard's ord weps dont say large either, just blast, though in the main rules the battle cannon does have large blast.

 

ill take it as a typo and say the whip is large, along with the guard - be kinda silly for a battle cannon to be a small blast, no?

 

anyways, thanks for helping me spot that, but this thread is aboot killing crons, not blast weps, so ill go back to lurking.

bye.

[Captain Idaho]

you see, in the chaos dex all the ord weps say 'ord 1, large blast', but in the crons dex the whip only says blast.

 

reason probably being because the Chaos Codex was probably created with an eye to being compatible with the 5th edition rule book, though this speculation.

[Spreader]

2+ armour saves are just disgusting for Necrons to face. they cant take them on, simply. if they put the firepower needed to take them down, the rest of your army is going to romp them to pieces. its hard enough to match the power armour let alone take on them plus Terminators!

 

Holy cow is this ever true. It's so scary to my crons that I block the situation out until it actually happens. I don't know why, but I can inflict 20 wounds on a terminator squad, and sure enough, MAYBE one will die.

 

Termies = gah haha

 

The scariest units in the chaos codex for my crons to handle would be....

 

- plague marines!!!!!

- termies

- defilers shooting at full range

- thousands suns (just found this out on the weekend)

- obliterators

 

Not in any order. Except the plague marines. I rolled equal points of PM's vs. warriors, and it was not pretty.

[Primarch Naogedd]

I know this is kind of contradictory, but when I face the Necrons, Cult troops are KVLT. Seriously. I charge Khornate into warriors, they die. Instantaneously. The Khornate do not even have a scratch. Thousand Sons can deal some serious damage while moving, especially if you give the Sorcerer Doombolt. The large warrior squads that quite a few Necron players take in order to raise the Phase Out limit get annihilated by either of those. The one thing I miss most about those sissy Loyalists is the Dreadnought Drop Pod. It now takes several years to footslog across the battlefield, and the automatic glancing hits on 6s of the gauss weapons make it even longer and deadlier. Imagine the Defiler Drop Pod. 5 Dread weapon attacks......

 

Now I just rush a few squads of Berzerkers with Skull Champions in, and bring in the Greater Daemon to dance in their blood. Several Lightning Claw equipped Terminator Champions work just as well. A Daemon Prince with Raptor support can bring a quick death to the Heavy Destroyers that plague Terminators so.

 

Waitaminute.... plague Terminators.......

 

Just joking. Khorne works best in all those cases. Mark of Tzeench is not needed because they have very few normal power weapons, only Warscythes. Make sure you swarm those pariahs fast with Berzerkers.

 

Naogedd out.

[Captain Idaho]

i tell you what would be hideous for my Necron army to face is Plague Terminators. 2+ saves, with an invulnerable save, multiple attacks, power weapons and fists, and toughness 5! apart from a C'tan, there is little that can stand against it!

 

the real question is this: if a Chaos player regularly beats a Necron player by being just too tough and getting into CC all the time, will your opponent decide that its a good investment to bring along the Nightbringer?

 

in all likely hood he will, and without a plague bearers poisoned attacks it will very hard to take him down. but then, it would be one hell of a ruck with your whole army vs his!

 

so tackling a Necron force with lots of CC really means how are you going to tackly the Nightbringer? which is another matter altogether!

[Primarch Naogedd]

What works for me versus the Nightbringer:

 

Bring a Greater Daemon. It could cause quite a few problems for him, tie him up a while.

Give support with HQ, Typhus works really well if you can use the Greater Daemon as a meat shield (wounds on 4+, Daemon Weapon, Force Weapon)

If you are really pissed with him bring Abby plus GD or DP. Annihilation plus later utility (2+ invulnerable, str 8 daemon weapon! droool.....). Works like a charm.

[Tokunator]

I can't see how a Greater Daemon could tie up a C'Tan. They only wound on 6s and the C'Tan have 4+ invulnerable saves. The C'Tan on the other hand wound on 2+ and ignore invulnerable saves, so they should take the Daemon out in 2 rounds. Easily.

 

 

And as for Typhus, he could take out a C'Tan, but as the Greater Daemon can't shield him, he could taken out by a single hit too.

[Sublime Heresy]

Honestly, i'd say tying up the Nightbringer for 2 turns for 100 points is a bargain.

 

Assuming it hits the combat turn 3, that means the big Reaper won't be free again until turn 5 on average, and by then it should be all over....even turn 4 is probably too late given he moves a lousy 6" a turn. Soooo easy to deal with, just not to kill.