What if it never occurred?

[evolved23]

Right brothers I'm just curious what my brothers opinion of what would have happened if the Heresy never occurred. If Horus was not corrupted on Davin would the crusade have continued on its own? or do you believe that it was inevitable that it would occur under a differant primach?

I mean the most likely candidates seem to be Curze, Magnus and Angron but each of these was an outsider am I right? Your thoughts please.

 

AVE IMPERATOR!

[Spacefrisian]

Than we would have peace and no war, and we would have been like lambs to the slaughter when those pesky bugs (nids) arrived.

[Brother Richard]

Angron was bound and determined to rile against the norm and destroy all in his path. One of the primarchs would eventually have to bring him down, which would cause a few of them to take sides. I believe it was the Lion who commented about the brothers would never get along if it wasn't for the father. The Big E staying home to work on the gate wasn't going to help. I just don't believe that any empire is destined to last forever and throwing that many big, scratch that, huge egos together with the brute strenght of the legions behind them it would only be a matter of time before they were stepping on each other's toes. If it wasn't chaos corrupting them, it would have been the lords of terra, the inquisition or it's predecessor, or the church of the emperor, the navigators, or...Guilliman.

 

My two cents.

[ChaplainDan]

Okay, immense spoiler potential here.

 

 

If Horus was not corrupted on Davin, most likely would have been slain by Erebus, however the Sons of Horus themselves would not have been corrupted and it's likely that the treachery of the word bearers would have been uncovered. After this it's likely that the other Legions would have rallied and destroyed the errant and corrupt legion before the heresy truly began.

 

The World Eaters would have still flipped out, the Emperor's children were still on the path to corruption and the Night Lords were always twitchy but without horus to unite them and set forward a true plan for victory the other legions would have been able to join together and destroy them. The Thousand sons would never have been forced to join chaos as the Space Wolves would not have been ordered by Horus to attack them. The Alpha Legion would have remained loyal.

 

The net result would be several swift and decisive battles destroying the traitors, by the end of which the Emperor would have completed his great work, an Imperial webway system.

 

With the recovery of the fully functional STC from the technocracy giving the Imperium technology far in advance of anything short of the Necrons (and the from the Technocracy's capacity possibly the ability to manufacture and outfit Imperial guard with bolters and powered armor) , several loyal legions at the Emperor's command and safety from the warp and the ability to deploy the Imperium's entire armoured might anywhere in the galaxy at short notice the Imperium of man would be an unstoppable force beyond the might of the even the Eldar empire that came before.

 

Orks would be little more than a nuissance, the Tyranids with all their numbers and might would not be able to best the Imperium's ability to quickly relocate and crush them with overwhelming superior force at a single point. The Necrons would rise from their tombs to find a galaxy teeming with life and ultra powered armored super soldiers backed up uncounted legions of troops with weapons nearly on parity with their own. The Tau would never progress to be anything and the Eldar would have to be extremely lucky to survive.

 

The threat of chaos with all it's corrupting influences could still be a problem, but if the webway protects the Imperium of man the strength of chaos would wane and fade. There would be a time of unending peace and prosperity punctuated only by the occasional minor conflict that is swiftly and decisively won.

 

[brother Hastatus]

Something would have happened eventually. The Word Bearers had already been corrupted and where a long way down the path to chaos, and Angron and Curze were pretty unstable anyway, and would most likely have joined in. This would have been beaten fairly easily, but it would have put that bit of doubt in the other Astartes minds. Was the Imperium the right path, the right thing?

 

And with the rise of the remembrancers, and the many paper-work people back on Terra, where the Emp. was hidden away, Marine sowuld have been worried. And the fact they had nothing to fight. Another rebellion would happen eventually...

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Angron was bound and determined to rile against the norm and destroy all in his path. One of the primarchs would eventually have to bring him down, which would cause a few of them to take sides. I believe it was the Lion who commented about the brothers would never get along if it wasn't for the father. The Big E staying home to work on the gate wasn't going to help. I just don't believe that any empire is destined to last forever and throwing that many big, scratch that, huge egos together with the brute strenght of the legions behind them it would only be a matter of time before they were stepping on each other's toes. If it wasn't chaos corrupting them, it would have been the lords of terra, the inquisition or it's predecessor, or the church of the emperor, the navigators, or...Guilliman.

 

My two cents.

but if the emperor would'nt have been enthroned, i doubt the church would have ever really gotten going.

[SeerDude]

if the Emperor had just let people worship him The Word Bearers primarch (the one with the inferiority complex) would have just worrshiped him and the world would be a nice place.

 

So realy its all down to the Emperor.

[DuskRaider]

Yeah, Horus didn't really turn as much as he was possessed and manipulated. Lorgar was still worshipping chaos long before, and I'm quite sure even with Horus wounded, Erebus wouldn't stand a chance defeating him. Eidolon and Fabius would have been exposed as traitors, Mortarion probably would have killed Typhon himself, and those legions would be fine. I think Magnus would still dabble in sorcery, but he wouldn't have been attacked, as this was not the Emperor's orders anyhow. In fact, I'm quite sure even if he did continue with his sorcerous ways, the Emperor would have interred him on the Throne.

 

Angron's turn was eventual, before the Heresy he was treading dangerous grounds. Konrad Curze would still have gone down his path, as the Heresy had little to do with this. I believe the Iron Warriors would have risen up as well, as I feel the Emperor was pretty much sending them on that path himself. As far as we know, Alpharius/Omegon never DID betray the Emperor, so the Cabal would never have contacted them.

 

Truthfully, I think Gulliman would have eventually tried to dethrone the Emperor, as I think he was making up all his decisions ultimately in his favor alone.

[horus-incarnate]

the emperor had a plan from the beggining he was counting on the heresy so he could assend the throne to battle chaos from the throne. the turn of most primarchs was inevitable anyway, just because they didnt believe in what the the emperor stood for in the end.

[SeerDude]

Yeah, Horus didn't really turn as much as he was possessed and manipulated. Lorgar was still worshipping chaos long before, and I'm quite sure even with Horus wounded, Erebus wouldn't stand a chance defeating him. Eidolon and Fabius would have been exposed as traitors, Mortarion probably would have killed Typhon himself, and those legions would be fine. I think Magnus would still dabble in sorcery, but he wouldn't have been attacked, as this was not the Emperor's orders anyhow. In fact, I'm quite sure even if he did continue with his sorcerous ways, the Emperor would have interred him on the Throne.

 

Angron's turn was eventual, before the Heresy he was treading dangerous grounds. Konrad Curze would still have gone down his path, as the Heresy had little to do with this. I believe the Iron Warriors would have risen up as well, as I feel the Emperor was pretty much sending them on that path himself. As far as we know, Alpharius/Omegon never DID betray the Emperor, so the Cabal would never have contacted them.

 

Truthfully, I think Gulliman would have eventually tried to dethrone the Emperor, as I think he was making up all his decisions ultimately in his favor alone.

 

why Eidolon and Fabius they turned because fulgrim did and fulgrim yes would have gone to chaos anyway because he found the sword with that deamon in long before the heresy.

[DuskRaider]

Actually, I'm pretty sure Horus gave Fulgrim the sword.

[horus-incarnate]

Actually, I'm pretty sure Horus gave Fulgrim the sword.

 

 

no fulgrim picked it up in a temple after the battle with the slaneesh worshipping laer.

 

fulgrims origional sword was given to him by ferrus manus

[DuskRaider]

Eh... still, I think he may have been able to combat it if Horus weren't possessed himself.

[Pig Of Sparta]

I agree with ChaplainDan, I think if the Heresy hadn't happened then the Imperium wouldn't be fading now, I'm not sure that the fall of any of the primarchs was entirely inevitable, it's more a cascade of events that leads forward from the triumph at Ullanor. There's a lot of what ifs that stem from there.

[SeerDude]

Eh... still, I think he may have been able to combat it if Horus weren't possessed himself.

 

no because he only realised he was being possed when he decapitated manus which would not have happened if the heresy didn`t start.

[DuskRaider]

Good riddance then, I never liked the Emperor's Children. Either way, you're looking at Iron Warriors, World Eaters, Iron Warriors, Word Bearers, and Emperor's Children that would most likely have turned either way, Thousand Sons are on the fence IMO, Magnus had good intentions, but we know what those usually lead to. So you have 5, at most 6 Legions that would have turned on the Imperium. They would still stand little chance against those who would still be loyal.

[Eiric Hakon]

IMHO without the heresy the imperium wouldn't exist. It took Magnus a single message to cause chaos to spill in and out of the human built web way. If Magnus could do it with a single communication by accident, what could an entire Cabal of chaos influenced psychers do? Magnus may be a primarch but with enough minds the chaos cabal would break the web way. Chaos itself is a reflection of emotions, so long as humanity has emotions there will always be chaos.

 

Had the heresy not happened and all alien menaces been eradicated after that then there would be no more need for the space marines, the Emperor would not be able to stop people undermining him without causing everything to fall apart. Once the Space Marines realised they had been betrayed they would turn, if chaos couldn't cut it then human nature itself would. Some may have remained loyal to the Emperor, but either way you have a civil war on your hands.

 

Just my thoughts

[Leethal]

If not Horus, it would have been the Lion. The Lion is the greatest tactician in the Primarch group. Every other Primarch has their strength, be it brute strength, fear, resilience, stalwartness, and whatever, but these strengeths would be nothing in the long run. The Lion is the greatest tactical mind the group, possibly exceeding Horus, but probably on par.

 

Remember Horus was not the best of the best, he just had all the good qualities of every Primarch.

 

Without the Heresy, the short term goal would have been peace throughout the galaxy, every Xenos race destroyed, or extremely endangered. The Tyranids would have been Mankind's greatest enemy, since in a galaxy of advanced super soldiers, the Nids would have just grown bigger muscles, and then would have been cut down by super bolters.

 

Necrons.......have no hope. Tau never became advanced. Eldar are probably hunted down and their craftworlds captured for study or destroyed.

 

But eventually, there would have been a civil war. Either out of sheer boredom, or by animosity. Familiarity breeds contempt, is the term.

 

The Lion and the Wolf rivalry would probably never have existed, and would have probably gotten along fairly well. Maybe brothers in arms, when the civil war would come.

 

Guilliman would probably be one of the reasons for the civil war.

 

Dorn and Pertuabo might have gotten along because of their lore in the same field, and probably created <Deleted by the =][=> untouchable Terra Supreme.

 

Angron would be on the other side, along with the Night Lords. Both are butchers, and both served as scapegoats for the atrocities in the Crusade.

 

Fulgrim would have probably been one of the most loyal Primarchs.

 

Vulkan can fit on both sides.

Khan would probably be on the side the Dark Angels would be on.

 

The Dark Angels without the Fallen, would have been one of the stalwart Legions. Possibly rivaling the Death Guard in sheer stubborness.

 

The Thousand Sons depending on how histroy played out on Psykers, would have been Pro or Anti-Emperor.

 

Word Bearers would have been mostl ikely hunted down and destroyed for their "worship" of the Emperor. That or they try to kill the Emperor to create a "God". Anyways a catalyst.

 

Alpha Legion would be against the Ultramarines, since they don't like UM.

 

But, in the civil war the teams would be lopsided. Without the 2 missing Legions, you would have something like 14:4 Teams, Loyalist in the numerical superiority.

 

Just my thoughts.

[Artos]

Yet the two missing Legions are always the catalysts for everything,

Maybe they turned well before the finding of Horus and the rest of the Primarchs!

Maybe they were found 1st and second.Cause it doesn't say who was found in what

order!I mean Jeeze we don't even know who was the oldest of the Primarchs! :)

Do we?

[Castlerook]

Horus was the eldest of the Primarchs, well, he was the first one found by the Emperor.

[Eiric Hakon]

Horus was the eldest of the Primarchs, well, he was the first one found by the Emperor.

 

Horus was first to be found. Although I think it's safe to assume that all the primarchs were created simultaneously. Although, Horus may have been the prototype as he had the best qualities of every primarch as Leethal says.

 

Eldar are probably hunted down and their craftworlds captured for study or destroyed.

 

I'm pretty sure that the Emperor wanted to make humanity an all psychic race that dint have to use the warp for travel. As such I think that eldar would still be needed for help and/or assimilated (sp?) into the human population (they are a 100% psychic species after all).

 

Another thought of mine:

 

How annoyed could the Primarchs get with the beurocrasy? For those of you that watch Stargate you must know how annoying the SGC finds the IOA, immagine that but with the primarchs and you might just end up with a civil war anyway...

 

If not Horus, it would have been the Lion.

 

Agreed, I think the Lion would have seen the disaster of peace :o

[Askari]

No I think that once the Empire was created and solidified the big E would have split the legions up himself and spread them apart. He probably would have eliminated the crazies like Angron and Curze ina Istvaan V type of way. The tau would have been annihilated by Ferrus mannus the the necrons would still be a problem, probably more so as not as many people would be dying and therefore there would be more souls for them to harvest and thus more of them would rise from stasis and start killing so the Marines would be useful in fighting them and the Emp would probably have tried to eliminate them C'tan once he learned of them. The eldar would ahave survived as pirate radrrs but they would lose pretty much all of the worlds they had been trying toreserve for the eventual recolonization. Biel Tan would probably be wiped out though since it would defend the exodite worlds to the death. There would still be the occasional rebellions by planetary governs but those would quickly be put down and orks would still be a major but there wouldn't be any more large empires and Armageddon wouldn't have happened. The tyranids would have been a lot more successful in the beginning as they wouldn't have been facing too many seasoned troops but they eventually would be pushed back with sheer might and numbers. The emperor might even have launched another crusade to destroy the nids completely.

 

When the khan got trapped in the webway the emp would have come after hims and destroyed the dark eldar.

[Castlerook]

Yeah, I've always thought the Lion had the potential to become the Arch-Heretic (highly intelligent, able to plan meticulously, and his years in the wilds of Caliban would give him an animal instinct that none of the Primarchs had (bar Russ)).

 

As to what would happen if the Heresy never happened, its difficult to say, there will always be flash points that could cause the Legions to rebel. I think though that once the Emperor was finished developing the Imperial Webway, he would have stopped the adminstrative fools trying to impose huge taxes on new worlds. (The man has been on around for nearly 40000 years at this stage, he has seen what happens if you impose massive restrictions on a new people!)

 

I agree that the Emperor would have allowed some xenos races to exist as protectorates, like the Eldar and the Squats (may they rest in pieces) or any races that provided services to them (like the Jokaero and their digi lasers).

 

The Orks would still be a nuisance, the Dark Eldar would probably remain a raider faction. Tau would probably be allowed to exist, but as a servent race to the Imperium, Kroot would probably end up in the same role with the Imperium as with the Tau. Necrons would be trapped on their Tomb Worlds, though they'd probably be destroyed.

 

Tyranids would still be a major threat, the largest threat the Imperium has faced. Though with the Legions destroying them (with huge casulties), it would be a huge reason for the 'Nids to come back in force, worse then Hive Fleets Kraken or Leviathan.

 

As for the legions themselves, well, the Primarchs aren't immortal, so they'd be gone by I'd say the 33rd Millenium, I doubt the Emperor would start a second Primarch project. So we'd have the 20 (or 18) legions in the Imperium, seeing how it was the Heresy that raised the point that the Legions were too powerful for one person to control, so no other foundings, means no Black Templars or Lamentors.

 

Technology would not be stagnant, I think the Emperor would allow some invention, but on a limited scale, seeing how he is the only person who has lived through the Dark Age of Technology. I also believe that the Emperor would allow robots to serve the Imperium, but merely as preprogrammed warriors, artifical intelligence would be banned.

 

My thoughts on the subject.

[Leethal]

The Tau planet was designated for exetermination of all life, and then colonized. The Tau were at that point barbarians with spears and tribes. Sticks and stones can't do anything against Ceramite, boltguns nor tanks.

 

Primarchs are immortal. The Lion is sleeping, for the past 10,000 years. Guilliman is still in that statis pod.

 

Tyranids might not actually have been a big threat, seeing how if the Heresy never happened, the Imperium would have Webways, and thousands of new technologies, hordes of Space Marines. If anything, the Imperium would encroach upon the space where the Tyranids actually came from.

 

The Imperium would still be a far place from paradise, hive cities would probably remain the same. The last Ork Empire would be crushed, the Eye of Terror probably cordoned off or something.

 

The Eldar are kind of an odd subject. I'm fairly certain certain groups of the Eldar like the Biel-Tan would have been gunned down, while the others might be allowed to live...in concentration type planets...

 

And we would still have the Imperial Army :(

[Artein]

Primarchs are immortal. The Lion is sleeping, for the past 10,000 years. Guilliman is still in that statis pod.

Night Haunter is dead. Ferrus Manus is dead. Sanguinus is dead. Horus is dead.

They are far from immortal.