Dorns Padawan Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 My fav character was Skraal. I have actually taken quite a liking to the World Eaters the more i read about them. I had high expectations for this book (despite Ben Counted writting it) as it was about the Ultramarines and although i liked it, it wasn't entirely what i thought it was going to be. Perhaps i set my hopes bar several levels too high! Overall Skraal was a character you could really get into and i liked the fact there was a 'bond' between him and Antiges just when Skraal knew he couldn't get back in time to save him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140833-battle-for-the-abyss-not-the-greatest-book-ever/page/4/#findComment-1660557 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senseilord Ashahara Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 Did anyone else get the feeling in the last couple of chapters that it was quater to ten at night when Ben realised his English homework was due in first period the next day? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140833-battle-for-the-abyss-not-the-greatest-book-ever/page/4/#findComment-1663901 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 Did anyone else get the feeling in the last couple of chapters that it was quater to ten at night when Ben realised his English homework was due in first period the next day? Â Yeah, very much so. Lots of building up, preparing for some sort of epic end (like the actual battle of Calth) and then things just got wrapped up a bit too quickly. The last 10th of the book just seemed jumbled together. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140833-battle-for-the-abyss-not-the-greatest-book-ever/page/4/#findComment-1663981 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorns Padawan Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 I agree, i was looking forward to some epic contest between Cestus and Zadkiel and the in a couple of blows it like "thats all folks!". I was so disapointed with theending, he could have made it last slightly longer. I mean, these Astartes trin for hours on end and duel each other in hand to hand combat so you would expect to read a decent couple of pages of furious carnage between to superhumans! Ah well, as long as mr Abnett does the siege of Terra, we will be in safe hands! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140833-battle-for-the-abyss-not-the-greatest-book-ever/page/4/#findComment-1663984 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amit Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 I have to agree with most (all ?) of the comments on this post. I was very disappointed with Battle for the Abyss. I have to admit though I am quite shocked at the anti-Ben Counter fan club, quite frankly I have enjoyed all of the Grey Knight Novels & Soul Drinkers novels.  Unfortunatley, I do feel this was one of the weaker HH books so far; second only to Descent of Angels ... It seems like that when you read the back cover of these books the anticipation and excitement with the possibility of some greater reveletion in part of the mythos of the 40K universe being revealed to the reader... Sadly not the case at all ... Could GW be sued for false advertising?  These two books aside; I am greatly looking forward to the next installemt from the HH series... Hopefully we will not be let down...  Later Y'All  Amit Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140833-battle-for-the-abyss-not-the-greatest-book-ever/page/4/#findComment-1664035 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific81 Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 Unfortunatley, I do feel this was one of the weaker HH books so far; second only to Descent of Angels ... It seems like that when you read the back cover of these books the anticipation and excitement with the possibility of some greater reveletion in part of the mythos of the 40K universe being revealed to the reader... Sadly not the case at all ... Could GW be sued for false advertising? Amit  Haha if only... the amount of film studios I would sue for hours of my life wasted watching bad movies...hours that I will never get back :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140833-battle-for-the-abyss-not-the-greatest-book-ever/page/4/#findComment-1664076 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senseilord Ashahara Posted August 15, 2008 Share Posted August 15, 2008 " I have to admit though I am quite shocked at the anti-Ben Counter fan club, quite frankly I have enjoyed all of the Grey Knight Novels & Soul Drinkers novels." Â Don't get me wrong. I loved the Soul Drinkers books and the first two Grey Knights books, it;s just that he has a tendancy to get,well , alittle silly now and then. And I did feel somewhat cheated by the ending of Hunt for the Red Abyss. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140833-battle-for-the-abyss-not-the-greatest-book-ever/page/4/#findComment-1664704 Share on other sites More sharing options...
noblesavage Posted August 15, 2008 Share Posted August 15, 2008 Ah well, as long as mr Abnett does the siege of Terra, we will be in safe hands! Â Has anyone heard when the siege of Terra will actually happen? Â I started reading this series thinking it was only a three book cycle, then I thought it was going to be six books, but with each book we're getting farther and farther away from the main show. I was told the other day by a friend that the HH is actually just meant to be an open-ended series allowing writers to set stories in the time period. Has anyone else heard that justification by a credible source (like BL themselves?) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140833-battle-for-the-abyss-not-the-greatest-book-ever/page/4/#findComment-1664876 Share on other sites More sharing options...
moranimal Posted August 15, 2008 Share Posted August 15, 2008 I'm about 100 pages into it, and so far I've been enjoying it. I wished they had gone into a little more detail regarding the decision to unite the various legion members under Cestus, as well as the reason why they were all there at that particular point in time in the first place Not really a flaw, more of a nit, and just would have added more flavor. Â On the plus side, I like the lighting of the candle by Zadkiel for Guilliman. Even though his job is to kill Guilliman, as a brother, he must still honor him. Likewise Cestus is disturbed that the SWs and WEs find it much too easy to attack and kill their brother legionaries. It's a totally foreign concept to him, which is why he can't believe the WBs would do it either. Perhaps this is why he won't kill Mhotep for sorcery and wants him to stand trial. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140833-battle-for-the-abyss-not-the-greatest-book-ever/page/4/#findComment-1665027 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific81 Posted August 15, 2008 Share Posted August 15, 2008 Thats an excellent point Moranimal.. its easy to forget that marine killing marine is almost unheard of in the 31st millenium! The act of 'executing' a marine from another legion would be anathema to him. Â Regarding the total number of books, I read on a rumours page of Warseer that it was likely to be in the region of 30 altogether. I imagine this to be fairly likely (and actually a great situation!) although unfortunately have no evidence to back it up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140833-battle-for-the-abyss-not-the-greatest-book-ever/page/4/#findComment-1665036 Share on other sites More sharing options...
moranimal Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 OK, so I'm just over halfway through the book. There was a pretty exciting scene with the Furious Abyss docked and the loyalists assaulting. I couldn't even put down the book, and kept reading until almost 12:30pm, even though I get up at 6:30am for work. I think this book may have been over criticized a little. So far a good read that I am enjoying. Â Side note: How could anyone not want to play a pre-heresy WE army? Wow! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140833-battle-for-the-abyss-not-the-greatest-book-ever/page/4/#findComment-1670988 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.(Space)Marine Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 I just got Battle for the Abyss literally just this moment, so I'll see if its as bad as it sounds (although I may still like it, anything with 40k fluff can win me over 99% of the time ;) ). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140833-battle-for-the-abyss-not-the-greatest-book-ever/page/4/#findComment-1671213 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherAtrox Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 I just finished the book a few days ago. I enjoyed Counter's earlier HH book, but this one felt lacking. The combat was well done (as usual) and I really enjoyed Counter's descriptions of how the warp effected people (namely the scene with Ulrago going mad and being consumed). However the characters were thin and unlikeable. Â Cestus has not improved my opinion of the Ultramarines at all. He was described as a Captain and naval officer, but his decisions and behavior made him feel like he had the competence of an Imperial Guard Sergeant. Brynngar was a stereotypical Space Wolf (half space viking, half furrysuit wearer - an image I'm tired of seeing Space Wolves cast in) whose constant questioning of Mhotep and Cestus was predictably never explained. There is so little introspection or examination as to why the characters behave the way they do and this makes their actions seemingly random and outright annoying. Skraal was the only character I really enjoyed and thats probably because he barely spoke. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140833-battle-for-the-abyss-not-the-greatest-book-ever/page/4/#findComment-1671923 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.(Space)Marine Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 Well I've read the first few chapters, and I have to say, it sort of blew me away how quickly it takes you into the action. I thought it would be similar to Galaxy in Flames where there was lots of building up to, and some occasional action, before the "big fight." This one sort of surprised me how quickly it takes you ito the story of the huge ship attacking the UM. (i thought that Ultra at the start was going to be a main character, yet he didn't last very long, did he?) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140833-battle-for-the-abyss-not-the-greatest-book-ever/page/4/#findComment-1672543 Share on other sites More sharing options...
moranimal Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 Brynngar was a stereotypical Space Wolf (half space viking, half furrysuit wearer - an image I'm tired of seeing Space Wolves cast in) whose constant questioning of Mhotep and Cestus was predictably never explained. There is so little introspection or examination as to why the characters behave the way they do and this makes their actions seemingly random and outright annoying. Â But it was explained! I just read it last night, as I'm about fifty pages or less from the end. Hint: Mhotep - of all the characters to choose - tells you why / answers your question / statement. Â Something else that has caught my eye / mind is that through the actions of Mhoptep, we are seeing why librarians will be [re]introduced into the legions after the heresy. Due to what they are encountering in this saga, it is obvious that they desperately need psychic protection - and the best defense is a good offense! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140833-battle-for-the-abyss-not-the-greatest-book-ever/page/4/#findComment-1673525 Share on other sites More sharing options...
c-wrex Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 My biggest beef was the lack of depth of Zadkiel. You'd think a space marine commander would be more thorough and not so half assed/dismissive of foes that are still hounding him. Â I mean, we know that Lorgies boys are nutjobs, but the lackadaisical approach of Zadkiel to his enemies and the nonstop worry-worting over his subordinates just kind of dragged it down for me. Still, I think mister Counter is one fantastic writer, and will eagerly pick up any more Power Armored fiction he decides to produce. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140833-battle-for-the-abyss-not-the-greatest-book-ever/page/4/#findComment-1673538 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.(Space)Marine Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 I was sorta annoyed there was no quotes at the start like there is in the other books. I liked reading them, but there was none is this one. :tu: Â And I thought the SW beating up his little blood claw buddies was funny, especially because he was drunk (who knew special fenrisan beer makes space wolves want to fight? oh wait they are already like that ^_^) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140833-battle-for-the-abyss-not-the-greatest-book-ever/page/4/#findComment-1673913 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trve Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 I had the misfortune of reading it after Legion, which is hands down my favorite HH book, so it paled in comparison. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140833-battle-for-the-abyss-not-the-greatest-book-ever/page/4/#findComment-1673919 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Here's my thoughts from another topic:  The book itself contains many great ideas and characters, the WE - Skraal is by far my favourite, and all parts of the book which has him in it are pure gold for a Khorne player imho. I just couldn't get past the language (e.g try and count how many times the word : obsequious appears - and this is just one of many) and the many blatant fluff violations that Ben Counter commits (Storm Bolters during the HH anyone?) The main character does indeed come off as a less-than bright individual and isn't very ultra-marine'ey.  But, all that aside, it's still worth a read because of the scope of his ideas (e.g. when the ships are in The Warp towards the end) and the characters (Skraal and Mhotep).   My 2 Kraks. I'd like to add that the book currently ranks as the 3rd worst HH novel that I've read. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140833-battle-for-the-abyss-not-the-greatest-book-ever/page/4/#findComment-1674125 Share on other sites More sharing options...
moranimal Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Well, I've got fourteen pages to go, and I have really enjoyed the book, contrary to popular opinion. The key character in all of this is Mhotep (IMHO), for he explains everyone's actions - at least on the loyalist side. If you read between the lines, the WB or traitors as well. (Warner Brothers?!?!!? - just kidding.) Â I think sometimes we lose sight of why the HH ultimately failed - that being they aligned themselves with Chaos. Simply put, they got the strength of Chaos and the raw power of the Warp and its denizens, but literally lost their minds in the process. The EC go off the deep end, and in the WB actions, especially Zadkiel. Most of the traitor legions soon lose tactical skill and ultimately strategic oversight. But that was the corrupting influence of Chaos. If you ever saw the original Star Trek series and the alternate universe episode, you will / would fully understand the characterization and what is happening. Â Anyway, I would read it, and then form your own opinions. Just keep an eye on Mhotep and what he says and does; he's the key. (Again, just MHO.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140833-battle-for-the-abyss-not-the-greatest-book-ever/page/4/#findComment-1674580 Share on other sites More sharing options...
noblesavage Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 I think sometimes we lose sight of why the HH ultimately failed - that being they aligned themselves with Chaos. Simply put, they got the strength of Chaos and the raw power of the Warp and its denizens, but literally lost their minds in the process. Â I always wondered how that worked. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140833-battle-for-the-abyss-not-the-greatest-book-ever/page/4/#findComment-1674621 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaeric Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Anyone notice Mhotep's response to Wsoric towards the end of the book? "Knowledge is power". A loyal thousand son, I wonder if he might have actually survived the wreck and been awarded his own chapter...it would make sense in a way... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140833-battle-for-the-abyss-not-the-greatest-book-ever/page/4/#findComment-1674720 Share on other sites More sharing options...
c-wrex Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 There certainly does seem to be an awfully similar streak between a certain loyal chapter and a certain traitor legion, but this has been discussed many times... Â It does bear some thought, however. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140833-battle-for-the-abyss-not-the-greatest-book-ever/page/4/#findComment-1674773 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.(Space)Marine Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 It does indeed, ci-wrex. Because what if Mhotep survived and just happened to be accepted by the Impeium, and just happened to...I dunno, be the new Chapter Master of a certain chapter? Â Most of the traitor legions soon lose tactical skill and ultimately strategic oversight. Â Yep most of 'em, except for the Iron Warriors and Alhpa Legion, who don't like Chaos. (I would say the Night Lords too but they went all crazy psycho and on a genocidal campaign across the eastern fringe) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140833-battle-for-the-abyss-not-the-greatest-book-ever/page/4/#findComment-1675401 Share on other sites More sharing options...
brother Hastatus Posted August 29, 2008 Author Share Posted August 29, 2008 Most of the traitor legions soon lose tactical skill and ultimately strategic oversight. Â Yep most of 'em, except for the Iron Warriors and Alhpa Legion, who don't like Chaos. (I would say the Night Lords too but they went all crazy psycho and on a genocidal campaign across the eastern fringe) Â I'd agree with that. And the Night Lords didn't even have a sane Primarch really, so you can't expect them to be too normal themselves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/140833-battle-for-the-abyss-not-the-greatest-book-ever/page/4/#findComment-1675562 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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