Battle for the Abyss: Not the greatest book ever...

[Hobo Willie]

I read the book and thought it was pretty much on par for the Horus Heresy novels. I would have to agree with Eirik_Xenobane and say that the types of lives Space Marines live do not lend to them having dynamic personalities. Sure, the author could have delved into a more detailed examination of Skraal's inner turmoil with Zadkiel telling him that the World Eaters had turned from the Emperor but it wouldn't have been extremely necessary to the plot.

 

I would say that while Zadkiel made a poor choice in not choosing to stay around and annihilate the vessels pursuing him, he was explained as being on a timetable and being late was probably just as bad as what ended up happening.

 

As for the Space Wolf and the Thousand Son, I think that the way the vehemence was set up between the two characters was accurately set up. The Space Wolves hated the Thousand Sons for their arcane ways and the Thousand Sons were used to not being able to defend their dabbles in sorcery since the Emperor explicitly forbade it. Thus, you have the Space Wolf insulting the Thousand Son without a retort.

[randian]

I would say that while Zadkiel made a poor choice in not choosing to stay around and annihilate the vessels pursuing him, he was explained as being on a timetable and being late was probably just as bad as what ended up happening.

Given the vagaries of warp travel, isn't "being late" an oxymoron? You can hardly have a tight timetable when your travel method can make you arrive years after your expected arrival. The few hours a battle might use seem hardly relevant.

 

There is one thing nobody has talked about: the sophistication of their knowledge regarding Chaos. These aren't beginners newly turned to Chaos. The way they use psykers to communicate, the ship-to-ship warp attacks, daemon summoning, warp-based weapons, etc show they've been hiding their treachery a long time. I'm impressed how they've managed to avoid having any loyal Marine set foot on a Word Bearer ship or world. Heck, they were turning entire planets to the worship of Chaos. I thought they had more interaction than that, but apparently nobody thought this suspicious.

[Eirik_Xenobane]

The Horus Heresy is NOT about the Primarchs damn it, it was bigger than them, it was bigger than Horus in the end. Whole worlds rebelled, armies clashed, all of Tallarn for example was turned into one huge tank battle.

 

I like the fact that somebody wrote a HH novel that focused on some of the other elements of the grander heresy, a snapshot of another theatre.

[Master Jeridian]

I'm halfway through it. There are a few good nuggets in there (descriptions of space battles and warp travel, of decks tearing open, etc) but it's no Dan Abnett.

 

The Word Bearers do seem like cartoon bad guys, whilst Ben Counter might need a separate book just to describe how 'massive and roxor l33t' the Word Bearers ship is, I got it in the first thirty sentences explaining the same thing- it is big.

 

I'm also suprised the Word Bearers ever get anything done- whenever the novel cuts to the WB ship, they're all sat around Zadkiel telling them a bedtime story from the good book. Fortunately his sermons ends just in time for you to be impressed by the size of his 'ship'.

[Magnus Thane]

wow, i thought the UM were made of sterner stuff.

 

if you want to see a book series get REALLY destroyed, read the Ragnar books. the books were excellent under King, then King leaves and a moron with a big crayon proceeds to murder any good feelings you had for the series.

 

i am still ashmaed to have paid for those books.

 

wolf lord kieran

 

I read every Space Wolf novel and loved every one of them.

King was great but the writer after him did a good job too. The stories were quite excellent

Which just proves that tastes differ in these things.

[Terrastorm]

Firstly this isn't the best book in the series or that I've read. It was a bit dull all the way through, and some of the characters are a bit bland. But most the action scenes when they get going are good. Skraal was the exception to the character rule in the book, (I jumped whole chapters to read parts from his story arc), and makes me pray for a HH book from the World Eater perspective.

 

All in all as I said its not the best book in the series, but it was interesting in the fact that, like 'Eirik_Xenobane' said, it took us away from the main Heresy theatre.

[staxer]

Just finished the book and thought it was quite a good read. I read this book much faster than Descent of Angels which I found hard to get into but enjoyed it in the end. Awaiting Mechanicum from Amazon tomorrow

[Dammeron]

The thing that really grated with me in this book was the characterisation of the Word Bearers. Far from being the pious zealots they are portrayed as in the background, they came off as cackling, arrogant, incompetent 1980's style cartoon villains who were pretty much doomed to failure from the very beginning. This is something of a negative divergance from the rest of the HH series, that has taken great pains to show ALL sides of the conflict and the complexities that determine who stands where and why.

 

Then of course you had wonderful characters like Mohtep and Skraal. Frustrating.

[Logain the Ranger]

Yeah, Zadkiel sort of had that Dick Dastardly feeling to him.

[Castedite]

Terrible, terrible, terrible book. Ben Counter does the unachievable, and makes a story about Space Marines more boring than watching paint dry. Total lack of imagination, total lack of the fluff, total lack of character development. I could not be more unhappy about this novel.

 

Best character in the novel was the World Eater captain, ironically enough.

[JEFF4i]

Skraal was awesome. A thinking World Eater, who knew?

 

I found the book on par, but nothing special.

[Cyrox]

Before i read BftA, I had seen numerous comments on here about this book, the majority saying it was terrible.

 

After reading it, i wouldn't say it was that bad, although there were a few niggling points. The portrayal of the main Space Wolf character was very stereotypical, and the interaction between the various marines a bit formal, but it wasn't that bad. More average than bad.

 

Skraal and Mhotep were interesting and given some more coverage the book could have been better

 

I bet there are some of us here who actually liked it?

 

*ducks for cover* :P

[Captain Idaho]

I thought it was ok, but I think the HH books will suffer because of the 1st 3 books being so coherent and all round awesome it makes subsequent books pale in comparison. Problem is, the fall of the Lunar wolvese was put into 3 BL books, but the rest of the series is squeezing it all into a single book.

 

But I don't think it was that bad either.

[c-wrex]

I liked the bits on the Wolrd Eaters and Imhotep, but not much else. Much as I like Ben Counter, I found this book to just be very stereotypical, like the OP said, and I HATED the smurfs characters, and the idiot Word Bearers. I get it, being overly religious clouds logical thinking and induces mass stupefaction, but these are Astartes we're talking about. Such petty concers shouldn't even be, well, a concern for them.

[Inquisitor Engel]

I thoroughly enjoyed it, passing quickly through it in three days, which considering it took me three WEEKS to get through Descent of Angels, is a big thing.

 

I thought Skraal was freaking awesome.

 

Brynngnar I thought was a bit... meh. Cool to start with but then all depth kind of vanished.

 

I really enjoyed the naval battles, which I feel played out quite well.

[Cyrox]

Yeah Skraal's journey alone on the ship was great, and could of used more pages :sweat:

[Reyner]

Skraal and Mhotep were the best bits. I liked the action bits aswell :D

[aekold]

I liked Skraal and Mhotep. I also liked the description of the space battle between the Abyss and the imperial ships. It was a nice change from the normal boltercombat we have in the HH series.

 

I absolutely disliked the spacewolf, the ultramarines and the wordbearers incompetence in combat.

[Justin Kase]

I'd have to agree with the majority so far, I found Mhotep and Skraal to be the real stars of the book.

 

One part I found particularly ridiculous, was the mass killing of the World Eaters as they tried to board the ship. Just made them sound pretty incompetent.

 

Also, I think Mr Counter has some issues with wrapping up a story - I often feel like he waits for the last 10 pages and tries to wrap everything up in some sort of climactic battle that hinges on 1 pivotal moment/character. The problem is, it winds up coming off more like a half hour episode of a schlocky sci-fi show then a well put together 2 hour movie.

 

Another thing that confused me a bit, was that in the HH art books, I got the feeling that the Word Bearer assault was a bit more wide scale and was initially successful, which kept the Ultramarines busy far to the Galactic South.

[Free Spirit]

Agreed, Mhotep and Skraal are awesome.

 

I did have one problem all the way through the book that i couldn't put my finger on. I wasn't enjoying it as much as the rest of the HH books ('cept the.. weird... thing that is Descent of Angels, but that's not ontopic). When i was about to finish it a mate said something to me that put everything in order:

 

"It's a fun read, but we've seen marines do cool stuff before and this book is no different. It's been here and done that. And my biggest gripe of all... you could've put this book in the current timeline and it would feel the same story".

 

And that was absolutely right. It didnt have a heresy feel. Except for Mhotep and Skraal, it was just a pretty cool nonheresy marine book. The Word Bearers were far to 'chaosy' (mistrust, paranoia, killing each other) then the timeline suggests. Even though the Word Bearers were (probably) the first legion to fall, the beginning of the Heresy shows most of the traitor legions to be normal marines, fighting for a different cause.

[Tutteman]

I also read bad reviews just after i bought it. Which is why I didn't think it was that bad, because I expected it to be terrible. And I agree with Captain Idaho. The later books suffer because the first three were so great.

[JEFF4i]

The very thought that an Ultramarine pup could beat a seasoned veteran like Brynngar, or that they'd even duel in such a fashion, still bugs me. It makes me afraid of Graham writing a Space Wolf novel. I understand using it as a way to forward the plot, but it just didn't seem right.

 

As said, Mhotep and Skraal were the real stars. Mhotep was certifiably creepy, and Skraal was that hard nasty World Eater, but loyal, loved it.

[Cyrox]

The very thought that an Ultramarine pup could beat a seasoned veteran like Brynngar, or that they'd even duel in such a fashion, still bugs me. It makes me afraid of Graham writing a Space Wolf novel. I understand using it as a way to forward the plot, but it just didn't seem right.

 

As said, Mhotep and Skraal were the real stars. Mhotep was certifiably creepy, and Skraal was that hard nasty World Eater, but loyal, loved it.

 

Do you mean Ben? Ben Counter wrote BftA

 

Or do you mean Graham because he likes Ultramarines?

[Beef]

Brynngnar I thought was a bit... meh. Cool to start with but then all depth kind of vanished.

 

I totally agree, As a long time SW fan I was looking forward to his character from the sneak peak first chapter I read on line, But boy did he turn into a rubbish character (damn kin slayer)

[Beef]

The very thought that an Ultramarine pup could beat a seasoned veteran like Brynngar, or that they'd even duel in such a fashion, still bugs me.

 

 

To be fair the Ultra amrine Was a captain and the SW was only a Wolf gaurd so it was right that the Smurf captain beat him. I know SW are badass but we are not that badass.