Blast weapons and cover saves

[Catheras]

It does not say anything in the Blast weapons description that you don't get cover saves, but it does state how you get cover saves for Ordnance Barrage Blasts.

So that means that you get cover saves for blast weapons in my opinion.

Have anyone found anything that says otherwise?

[Master Incarias]

Blast weapons calculate cover in exactly the same way as any normal weapon, as there are no exceptions stated. Barrage weapons do have an exception, so they work differently.

[MrBunwah]

Apologies if this is hijacking this thread or answered elsewhere in the forums, but I had a blast template question too.

 

If the blast template scatters onto a new target, how do you work out if they get a cover save? Do you draw line of sight from the firer to the new target and work out cover saves from that? In which case, what save do you get if the scattered shot now passes through a solid object (i.e. you don't have any line of sight at all). Do you work out cover from where the template initially should have landed? Or do you treat it like a barrage and effectively get no cover save at all?

 

I understand that you still get hit by a scattering blast, even if it's now out of Line of Sight, but the rulebook is completly silent (as far as I can see) on working out whether the shot that's making that template still passes through intervening cover / objects. I mean if the new position of blast marker now lies behind a Land Raider, I would assume you do get some kind of cover save!

 

Thanks in advance for any help!

[Praeger]

It works the exact same way as firing at the initial unit.

 

Work out cover as normal - and if its a blast weapon that REQUIRES line of site to the target, then there is a posibility that the shot is considered to have missed - though this is would need to be looked into more

[Gaz1858]

Even without LOS it is still possible to hit with a template.

 

E.g. Fire a frag missile at a unit on the corner of a building.there is a further unit behind that but out of site due to building. Roll the dice and if it comes up landing on the hidden unit then thats where it lands.

 

Call it wind interference, ricochet, whatever. Still counts as a hit, albeit it not on the unit you targeted.

[nighthawks]

ok, we can all agree that it hits and can wound, etc... units out of range/LOS. the OP's question remains (and its a dang good one): what do we do about cover in this instance? I would presume we default to a 4+ as that is the norm in this edition, but some clarification from GW would be nice, as all cover rules are determined based on the terrain etc... along the LOS path of the firer(s). with no LOS, there are no real rules stated.

[Gaz1858]

I guess youd take it either from the direction of the firer or the direction the missile,shell etc went. like did it blow up in front of the terrain and hit some guys or behind it so the terrain would have no effect on the blast radius. If you follow....

[The Ultramariniest]

I thought that for all blast weapons you checked cover saves (if any) from the center hole of the template? That makes total sense to me. If you fire a missile and it lands behind, say, a wall and explodes, what use is the wall for cover? If you fire a Heavy Bolter then the wall can protect you.

 

Don't have my book on me, but I'll check when I get home.

[Gaz1858]

Thats what i was trying to say but you said it better!!!

[Whoopxi]

Center hole is from barrage weapons.

 

"Regular" blast you are supposed to determine cover based from the LOS of firer. If the shot happens to land out of his field of vision then the unit hit simply gets a cover save... which is defined by the cover save chart in the rulebook.

[Nuntius]

I would disagree slightly. I would say at the point of scatter, doesn't matter whether the firer has LOS or not. He didn't hit what he was aiming at anyway. At the time of scatter the round has gone wide of its mark and now cover is determined on the unit hit For example a unit behind a building would not get a cover save if they were standing in the open behind said building. The building already gave them cover from the firer by not making them a viable target. If the same unit was more than half in the buliding or in a ruin then they would be in cover.

[nighthawks]

sounds wonderful, but where in the rules or werrata is this conclusion supported? and that is the problem, there is no direct addressing of this issue yet.

[Praeger]

It apears that the answer to this is simple:

 

Draw a line from the firer to where the shot ends up.

 

Does it go through cover?

 

If yes look up what type of cover the unit now gets.

 

If no proced as normal.

 

It never says ignore cover, or if your standing 8" behind cover or anything else its ignored - all it says is draw the line, does it pass through cover.

 

So id say yes, they get a cover save.

[maniclurker]

When any part of the target model's body (as defined on page 16) is obsurred from the point of view of the firer, the target model is in cover. 5th ed BBB, pg 21, under COVER SAVES.

 

Note that it is possible, and absolutely fine, for a scattering shot to land beyond the weapon's range and line of sight... In theses cases hits are worked out as normal, and can hit units out of range and sight... 5th ed BBB, pg 30, under BLAST.

 

Using these two entries, we can determine that the models are most certainly hit, and most certainly get a cover save. The save that the model gets can be found on pg 21 of the 5th ed BBB, in the COVER CHART.

 

That is the correct answer to your question (both, in fact), and is not an assumption or opinion or rumor. That is a fact. Those are direct quotes from the book.