Chaos Dreadnaughts

[Magnus Thane]

Is there any hope for the Chaos Dreadnaughts?

I mostly encounter criticism of them (and i can see why) but does anyone use them?

And if so with what weapons/role?

[Cornelias]

the only way i would include one was if i was playing a Khorne army( mainly for fluff reasons) and arm it with DCCW ;)

 

the problem we have with them is for the same points value you can get something with less risk,more flexability,more fire power :tu:

 

basic dreadnaught w/ mutli-melta( it's the cheapest) = 100 pts

 

another 50 points and you can have 2 obliterators and all the firepower that brings or.....

 

for the same 150 points for the oblits you can have a defiler :)

 

 

either of which i would rather include than use a dreadnaught :D

[Drudge Dreadnought]

I love dreads. I run them with plasma cannons and heavy flamers. I have the metal one, a forge world one, and after black reach comes i'll have a third. Why do i use dreads? Well, they are awesome. At everything. How many units can kill anything in melee, most things with guns, and still be tough to kill, able to get safe in combats where they are difficult to damage and need a powerfist to kill, and can cost not that much? Yeah a good loadout is 110-130 pts (including ea) but hey, they are armored elites. They can also do a lot of stuff that nothing else in the chaos codex can, even the defiler. Yes, that list of things includes nuking your own guys, but people really make a bigger deal out of that than it actually is. Unleses you play with no strategy at all and make no effort to stop it killing your own guys you are never going to lose more than a marine or two to even a plasma cannon fire frenzy, and if you lose games because of a couple guys you have bigger problems. And i find that fire frenzy is much more dangerous to my enemies than to myself (its bloodrage that annoys me more, but even that isn't bad if handled right).

 

A lot of people view dreads as something you have to handle with kid gloves that isn't really that much more effective than other options and you have to revolve your whole list around. I view it as a strategic utility that most opponents don't know how to fight, and arn't equipped to fight. Yeah in an average game you get both of the negative results, but i've found they also make up for it in what they kill. I've never had my dread going nuts and killing something or not killing something lose me a game, but i've had plenty of times where they have won me games.

 

The other things with dreads is their reputations. Most people misjudge them completely. I find that when i run a dread i get these common reactions:

 

-The opponent thinks its going to spend the entire game rampaging through my whole army because thats how most people view them, and so ignores it. Those are the games where the 125 dread kills 300+ points of enemies.

 

-The opponent just HAS to kill it because of the novelty of somone fielding one. So i play it in a way that lets me dictate what just about all their anti tank is doing. I get to control them, so i win.

 

-They are afraid of it cause it has a plasma cannon and str10 weapons. I've had several games where my 125pt dread has chanced 200+ point baddies (stuff like hive tyrants) around the board for the majority of the game, rendering them useless, and still killing plenty of other stuff because they were so afraid of the dread.

 

The thing is chaos is very short range oriented, much more than loyalists. We have this extra crazy penalty to balance out the fact that they complement our armies playstyle a lot better than they do loyalists (unless you are plasying pure noise marines.)

 

But maybe don't listen to me too much, i am a bit of a fanboy.

[Xenocidal Maniac]

I completely agree with Drudge. Dreads are great. Everyone makes a big deal about the insanity, but they overlook the fact that we get a huge discount in points for that unreliability.

 

Sure, it's furstrating when they don't do what you want them to, but fire frenzy rarely causes any problems. You roll for it at the beginning of the movement phase, and the firing does not take place until the shooting phase. So you have plenty of time to get your valuable units out of the line of fire. And Blood Frenzy has never bothered me at all. But I play a Khorne army, so...

 

I usually arm my dreads with a twin linked heavy bolter. My goal is to walk them into combat, spraying shots as they go. With the TLHB you get some kills on the way in, you keep the dread cheap, and he can't hurt your own guys too badly.

[Roultox]

Their drawbacks make them cheaper then the updated loyalist dreads. About 15-30 points cheaper all around. If a dread kills a marine or two during the game then that is made up for. If it kills a tank or something else that big, then its a real drag. Preferably their ranged weapons will be that of low AP value like AC's, HB's and such, otherwise its two DCCW.

 

 

I like dreads, I really do and in small games they might see action. But as it stands, if I want melee I rather have 3 Terminators for the same cost and elite slot. If its ranged I rather invest that 100+ points into heavy support. Just because the bargaining point is that rule of them going crazy, I want reliability every round if I spend points like that. When I want randomness, I want predictable randomness like chaos spawns.

 

Others who disagree with what I say, and thats fine, they get to enjoy the cheapest dreadnoughts in the game. For me however, I dice mine up and turn them into defilers.

[Magnus Thane]

Hmmm i think i'll integrate one, maybe two in my force. My most frequent opponent is a Necron player. What equipment would be best against them for a Dread?

[Terminus Est]

The new plasma cannon is awesome, as long as you hide your own guys from the dread just in case.. or go 2 ccw and charge em.

[Roultox]

For necronians?

 

I would say either a melee loadout as usual, or missile launcher and Twin-Linked Lascannon. Its worth the instant death value, and harassing their monoliths. If you hit your own fellas, I wish you luck.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

Other than dual close combat weapons i'd say the safest loadouts are heavy bolter and lascannon depending on how you deploy them. the heavy bolter will never kill your vehicles, and the lascannon will only ever kill one guy. keep them near a vehicle or infantry respectively.

[the jeske]

. I view it as a strategic utility that most opponents don't know how to fight, and arn't equipped to fight.

god i wish to play tournaments near you . Armies that cant take out one or two dreads , must be without specials , hvy weapons , powerfists or eviscerators . they must be like.. I dont know IG with drop troop armed only with granded launchers with some hvy bolters [and no flyers] , cant think of any other army that couldnt deal with a dread right now .

 

As the dread goes . Well they are just plain bad . first they can turn on your own army . now this thing alone is reasone enough no to take them . If someone think he can manuver a dread in such a way that it doesnt shot his own army and be a danger to the opponent , he is playing a lot of new players or on a city board hvy table .

Second thing is arment . for the points we pay for dread we can get termis or oblits that are more realiable [ok so oblits are hvy support choice , I shouldnt mention them] at both anti meq and anti tank .What dreads are really good at is anti horde . Or they techiclly are good against horde armies , but I still have to see a mob of orks without a power fist . I still cant imagine how against a semi decent IG player a dread passes the whole table and doesnt get blown up[see loyalist dreads are far better here because of drop pods ]. And nids are still a problem . Sure in the 5th the genestealer wont blow up the dread like they did in the 5th , but as the nids army is still mostly a shoty one , the dread still dies .

 

And with the coming of the sm dex and its siege dex one can only ask "where are you chaos dread gods now ?".

[Nero]

I stick mine in a Dreadclaw. It certainly isn't worth the points (at 175pts you better believe it isn't!) but it's always fun when it rolls fire frenzy after landing and shoots it's plasma cannon and heavy flamer - twice!

 

But not so much fun when it rolls blood frenzy after landing.

[Zeller]

You know what, reading this and previous threads regarding this made me realize that you guys just blow this potential problem out of the water. Despite the points difference, consider that BA rhinos using overcharged engines also have the same potential to do nothing for an entire round. Granted, a loaded transport doing nothing for a round is not immediately as bad but could still cause problems if certain unforutnate events took place, namely assaults, being left in the open with a clear shot form anti-tank units, etc. That potential is a 1 in 6 chance, just like the dreadnought. All I'm saying is that to not take a unit that could otherwise be helpful just because of a 1 in 6 chance of rolling a 1 is stupid. The thing will do its job if you point it in the right direction and give it a little nudge.

 

Just sayin' :D

 

@Nero: Where are said transport options for our dreadnoughts in the codex?

[Ju'kosian]

@Nero: Where are said transport options for our dreadnoughts in the codex?

nowhere.. dreadclaw is forgeworld, rules are probably in one of the imperial army books.

 

I liked the previous better, since when they went crazy, they could do some major damage in HTH.. too bad that's gone.

Waepon load out : Lascannon + ML

or plasma cannon and close combat arm, I'm thinking of getting one or 2 with 2 close combat arms for my WE and maybe a nurgle one too (those forgeworld dreads are too hard to resist)

 

As for shooting at your own units, You'll have to have bad luck that there's no enemy unit in sight and in range with 48" or 36" ranged waepons..

I never had that it starts shooting my own men (yet :) )

[chillin]

As for shooting at your own units, You'll have to have bad luck that there's no enemy unit in sight and in range with 48" or 36" ranged waepons..

I never had that it starts shooting my own men (yet :huh: )

-

You're not doing it right Ju'kosian. It doesn't matter if there is an enemy unit in sight of the dreads 36" or 48" weop, if you have a CLOSER unit, it shoots that unit . It shoots the closest unit friend or foe it doesn't matter if there are enemy units in LoS.

[tortoise]

You know what, reading this and previous threads regarding this made me realize that you guys just blow this potential problem out of the water. Despite the points difference, consider that BA rhinos using overcharged engines also have the same potential to do nothing for an entire round. Granted, a loaded transport doing nothing for a round is not immediately as bad but could still cause problems if certain unforutnate events took place, namely assaults, being left in the open with a clear shot form anti-tank units, etc. That potential is a 1 in 6 chance, just like the dreadnought. All I'm saying is that to not take a unit that could otherwise be helpful just because of a 1 in 6 chance of rolling a 1 is stupid. The thing will do its job if you point it in the right direction and give it a little nudge.

 

That isn't strictly relevant for 2 reasons. Firstly there are 2 results on the rage table that lose you control of your dreadnought- that's twice as high a chance as for Blood angels. Secondly, the Blood angels don't damage their own troops if they roll such a result.

 

The chaos dread isn't just bad because of it's unpredictability though. It's a mediocre unit in the first place. AV 12 is rubbish especially for such a slow target, it doesn't have the weaponry of a tank and it has a pitiful number of CC attacks. Without frenzy it would be a sub-optimal choice. With frenzy its awful.

 

I gave up using them very quickly. I've just painted a forge world dread for my EC and it is going in the army list but thats only because its such a nice model.

[Magnus Thane]

A shame, i adore how Dreads look.

-___- stupid rule.

[chillin]

After reading this thread I had a fantasticly brilliant idea :P , so I tried it out last night in a game.

 

My idea was that if you make the closest thing to the dread a LR the dread can't hurt it if it goes crazy.

Last night I wanted to see if my BL could go hth vs SW's 13 Co. and come out on top. I usually run a more shooty army (I already know I can shoot their arses off) and I wanted to try something different.

So, perfect time to try the dread beside the LR thing. My dreads plasma cannon can't hurt the LR, and also the LR can block LoS of part the enemy to the dread helping ensure that the dread makes it into hth. It worked pretty good, the dread shot its plasma cannon twice but only kill a few SW's due to poor rolling on my part (even plasma doesn't wound when you roll a handful of 1's ;) ), then it

bloodfrenzy and ran over and finished off a squad that had a pack leader and 2 meltas left. Then got into hth w/ another squad and killed 1 more guy (the brzrkrs from the LR had already killed the rest at int.5).

So I think it wked pretty good. I wouldn't suggest taking a LR just to take a dread, but if your going to run a CC army and use a LR anyway, the dread becomes a viable option again.

 

(oh, I won the game btw, pretty much a slaughter)

[Roultox]

Well, you could always trade the gun arm for a Close Combat Arm, and use the other DCCW as a missile launcher, and pick frag shots against a vehicle it berserks on. I totally forgot about that.

 

One thing is for certain, when chaos dreads lost their rage for a little while in a previous edition, I was stolked. And much less tricked into buying another dreadnought before they reinstated the rule. Never again will I be tricked if they change it again! (Im sure they noticed how far their sales dropped on those 45 dollar dreadnoughts)

[Gideus]

I always seem to play the fluff rather than the rules, in the sense I never build an army designed to purely win a game and min/max, only to have fun and be "in character". Hence when I play my CSM (Iron Warriors) I use anywhere from 1-3 dreadnoughts almost every time, and always have a blast with them. It even mentions in the 2nd ed. chaos book that the IW use the "psychotical unstable" dreads as a means of breaking tough defense lines so it fits the fluff.

I can understand in a tournament their drawbacks, but I have one tourny list without them, and the rest of the time its all for fun, so I never shy away from their use. And as others have mentioned, I've never *lost* because of the "crazed" rule, but I have *won* games with my dreads.

 

Plus watching the look on someones face (especially my imperial guard and dark eldar friends) when 3 dreadnoughts go plowing into their infantry lines is *always* priceless :P .

[FishSpit]

Another Suggestion for dreads:

To aviod nasty fire frenzy rolls, arm them with two DCCW (maybe even missles) and play/deploy them as a pair so IF they fire frenzy you only the other dread with bolter and/or frag rounds, that means they can't do much damage to each other (maybe rear armour)

After a few turns you can split them such that enemy untis are closer in case of a frenzy, or keep them together so that anti-tank fire is somewhat split.

still, id rather get some oblits, termies, or havocs for the cost of the dread.

[Zealous]

I'm taking a Dreadnought at 750 points in a fun list vs. my just-started-the-game Tyranid player. But I've always liked the idea of dreadnoughts (which is probably why I always field AT LEAST two in my loyalist armies at any points limit).

 

But there are some great ideas in this thread! Like taking two dreads with DCCW (which is how I like em anyway - 5 DCCW attacks on the charge? YES PLEASE) and keeping them together, or taking a Plasmacannon dread and hiding it behind a land raider, or even that ML thing and picking frags when it shoots your own guys is a good idea!

 

As to the topic at hand, I think that when you want to win, things like Possessed, Dreadnaughts, Spawn, etc, should be left at home. When you want to have fun, all those things should come off the shelf and onto the table.

[Zeller]

There is still only a 1 in 6 chance for the Chaos Dread to screw up just like the rhino can screw up. They may impact the game in totally different ways but I had no other material for comparison.

 

What's wrong with possessed? :P

 

 

I think you guys just don't like the chaos in chaos space marines. :lol:

[L0NEW0LF]

....I think you guys just don't like the chaos in chaos space marines. ;)

seems to be alot of that when it comes to dreads, possessed and spawn.

 

i love dreads and have 3, one's even armed with a multi-melta (shock-horror!!)

and i make use of possessed when i've got the points (or a bodyguard for Khârn)

i don't use spawn, not because of the unpredictability but because of their lack of ANY save (i'd settle for a 6+ inv or something)

[the jeske]

I think you guys just don't like the chaos in chaos space marines.

random = chaos .

I would advice you to read the fluff . the chaos lords dont roll dice to pick a random target , in fact in most cases erratic and hard to control units are generally not used by them , unless they want some kamikaze units [dreadnoughts making a breach in a defensive line for example , possossed send to kill as many as they can etc ] . a normal chaos army [with legion differences] wouldnt be runing units that are untrustworthy or unrealiable [i mean both the rules and fluff].

[Romulas]

i like dreds and use one as often as i can.......

 

but i did have one unload into my pred and give my opponent a kill point. (my dred has twin linked las and missile launcher usually)

 

in the game i had yesterday my opponent had two dreds and managed to roll either effect on both dreds for the first 2 turns, and at lesat once every successive turn. he only had baneful effects twice, and then his spawn shield absorbed the pain with ease.