Mutt-Man! Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 ~~ And I'm asking all the chaos fellas to help me cover what I've missed, what I didn't see, and general mistakes to make this tactica update go by smoothly and give Brother Nihm less of a headache to deal with. So I hereby sanction the fifth dark crusade on the Tactica Chaotica by Nihm's approval. *Opens up the roolziebook, apocalypse book and newest Chaos Codex + downloading the Chaos FAQ update from GW* Here I go.... ... ;) Oh and - I'll be doing forgeworld models too, this may take a while though I may add it in another post in this thread. In addition, I will add on the Daemon Codex later when I find time. (Please don't get angry if it seems like I "stole" an idea from you, I get experience from reading as well as playing and talking to players, I won't take credit for anything other than typing this thing out.) INDEX Miscellaneous Special (Unique) Characters Headquarters (HQ) Troops Fast Attack Elites Heavy Support Blue: Green: Purple Chaos Icons 1)They are used to summon daemons that do not scatter, and to act as a teleport homer for terminators and obliterators. 2)Personal Icons do not relay benefits. 3)Icons only give benefits to the unit, and not to any joining characters. 4)Icons just like other upgrade models must be rolled for individually when the unit takes wounds or in the normal circumstances. 5)For bonus stat icons, it is wise to put them in larger units where the cost is spread among the unit for the benefits. 6)The hidden way around using your icons for enemy deep strikers and daemons to get close, is that icons must belong to you for you to use. +6)If you could use enemy rules for yourself, many rules would be available to you merely because it says "your armies race/codex" in the description instead of "owning player". This is due to because Chaos Space Marines icons function like the Daemon Codex icons for the purpose of apocalypse games where friendly units can use each others icons. 7)I will think of more, I'll come back to this...... Personal Icon: As a means for deep strike and lesser daemons, thus the price is cheap. Glory(Undivided) Icon: Re-roll leadership. Remember that if your above 50% and you failed a leadership, you may forgo the re-roll in favor of running if you wish. Khorne Icon: +1 Attack. The cool thing about this icon, for defensive firepower units to defend themselves and for every overlap in additional attacks is like having more models in combat. (every 2 marines is having 1 more "free" marine) Slaanesh Icon: +1 Initiative. This icon is offense/defense because of striking order, and it helps with the sweeping advance rule. Its in good hands for HQ's and power weapon wielders. Nurgle Icon: +1 Toughness. A powerful defensive icon that works well against all attacks except ones that ignore toughness values and weapons 2 or more strength above their toughness. The price reflects its great bonus. Tzeentch Icon: 5+ Inv save /or/ +1 to Inv save, and sorcerers may purchase and use two psychic powers a turn. (Details on page 88, first paragraph) Psychic Powers Doombolt: Standard 3 shot high AP power, used to great effect for cheap. Don't under-estimate this power, I use it the most and not because of its cost. Warptime: Every "re-roll" you make is much like having a free attack in addition to your normal attacks. A charging sorcerer is similar to having a safer daemon weapon. (2 in 12 chance to be harmed, 2 in 12 chance to not work *VS* rolling 4+ dice, any 1's he gets harmed with no attacks) Gift of Chaos: Assassination tool, preferably in prolonged combats or with a model with deep strike and an icon nearby or using a speed upgrade, like a jump pack. Remember, no invulnerable saves apply, roll over the things toughness or a 6, and its gone! Wind of Chaos: A powerful flame weapon, arguably one of the best, I also suggest deep strike or jump pack speed to make good use of this weapon. If you do well with it, you could kill your models cost in one strike. Lash of Submission: A powerful tool, that requires other elements to make useful. Such as getting a unit into your charge range, getting them to move away from your ranged troops, and to bunch them together for area effect special abilities and weapons. (FAQ = A unit may be hit twice with Lash so long as it isn't pinned from the first lash) + Additional note. Chaos has no psychic hoods, powers that lower a targets leadership, or any other mass project power like all other psychic races have, this power is ok. (And I never use it) Nurgle's Rot: A cheap wide effect radius power that returns its cost if the model remains in range for several rounds. It greatly reduces easy targets like imperial guard, Tyranid lesser creatures and Orks. Its like having a no scatter ordinance constantly hitting the enemy. Bolt of Change: Its a nice power with a 6 to destroy a land raider by glance, so only take if you prefer to hit 13 or less armor values with it as well as instant kill and monster killing. Transport Chaos Rhino: -Shooting: Spotlight, 1 Fire Point, Twin-Linked Bolters, one upgrade option from the following, Combi Bolter; Combi-Variant; Havoc Launcher. -Taking Shots: Vehicle, Smoke Launchers, Repair Rule, and any of these upgrades, Daemonic Possession, Extra Armor. -Mêlée: Tank Shocking, no bonuses. -Taking Mêlée: Average, keep it moving if your being charged. -Specialization: Transporting up to 10 models. (No Terminators, Daemons or Obliterators) +My Notes: The only rhino that can have a weapon that can compare to a twin-linked heavy bolter and carry a full 10 models, a step up from the Razorback. I like using combi-melta or combi-flamer for getting close and killing something important. This vehicle can be taken with a squad of 20, just cant transport them. (Refer to the updated chaos FAQ) Special (Unique) Characters Abaddon the Despoiler: (Black Legion / Crusade) Deep Strike, nice attacks for crowd chewing, has a weapon capable of killing anything, best used with a supporting unit. Fabius Bile: (Any Legion / Mercenary) Able to wound the enemy at ranged, great light armor character killer in hand-to-hand, decent for holding his own against small units that do not have power weapons. (Special: Enhanced Warriors) Taking Fabius gives you access to his warriors. Also please note it says "Chaos Space Marine squads" - actual quote, there are no bikes, chosen, havocs included in that sentence, don't be fooled by pages 26 and 27. Armor saves for a result of a 1 on the random table are rolled individually as if the entire squad got a wound, so special members can be killed this way. Huron Blackheart: (Red Corsairs) Great for troops, vehicles, adding a flamer to a unit, and versatile with warptime and a power weapon or powerfist to pick from. Khârn the Betrayer: (World Eaters / Mercenary) One of the best crowd chewers, don't be shy in charging him in alone. Perfect against Psykers. Lucius the Eternal: (Emperor's Children / Mercenary) Great crowd chewer, and character killer, including that he has a superb flame weapon, this is one of the best of the batch for the cost. Typhus: (Death Guard / Mercenary) Deep Strike, two great powers for multiple situations, great durability for going solo and a daemon weapon for the rest, the best crowd chewer in the special character section and great character killer with his force weapon option. Ahriman: (Thousand Sons / Mercenary) Great versatility for the tactically inclined. Powers to please crows, but the ability to use 3 powers is either to use one shooting power, warptime and either 1 gift of chaos or use his force weapon, or to use 1 shooting power and 2 gifts of chaos, or use 3 gifts of chaos for a free 120 point unit. I highly suggest putting Ahriman inside a transport unit, he works best when his powers are close to the enemy with bulk to take hits for him. Headquarters (HQ) Greater Daemon: (Free HQ slot choice, kills a champion) Its narrow and to the point, toss it at the enemy and slap around some vehicles with it. Be mindful where it should come in though because of its base size. I normally suggest tough creatures in a vehicle army to force high power weapons to split fire. Daemon Prince: Able to fly with wings or remain economical in its role of a defensive counter-charge. Various marks usually lead to its specialization roles, such a khorne prince will munch many troops, while the other three can rely on powers for their specials. I prefer to keep mine cheap, and most people who like to use Lash prefer to put it on a prince. Again, I suggest putting large creatures in a vehicle heavy army to force heavy weapons to pick wisely. Chaos Lord: May go two ways with this, you can daemon weapon the lord or give him traditional combat roles that are less risky. I will note the typical combinations below. Please keep in mind the Lord can have a stunning array of weapons. Its your choice if you want speed like a bike or jump pack, or go with the armor, or keep him cheap. -Power Weapon/Lightening Claws/Power Fist/Daemon Weapon, Plasma Pistol, Melta Bomb* or Combi-Melta* (*if no powerfist is present) -Just a single mêlée upgrade. -Icon, Speed Upgrade, and any other desired upgrade for daemon bombing. -No Mark (Undivided/Glory) Daemon Weapon: Basic crowd muncher with great results, safer then the Khorne daemon weapon. -Khorne Daemon Weapon, the Bloodfeeder: Possible 17 attacks on the charge with roughly 29% chance to take a wound, highly suggested to have support, most damage crowd chewer in the game in mêlée! -Slaanesh Daemon Weapon, the Blissgiver: Character assassination tool, great for multi-wound models but with high initiative on the model already makes it more or less a character assassin. Monstrous creatures must fear this weapon that do not come with eternal warrior or synapse. -Nurgle Daemon Weapon, the Plaguebringer: perfect for high toughness units such as Wraithguard, Wraithlords and any monstrous creature. If you want a persistent take-all comer weapon, this is it. I suggest meltabombs with it however. -Tzeentch Daemon Weapon, the Deathscreamer: Its arguably the weakest one in mêlée but thats fine, it shoots a decent array of superior doombolt range, and possibly rolling a 6 you get another chance. Comparable to the Khorne daemon weapon with two D6 rolled a turn, except against high initiative units this weapon will have 2-6 shots before charging. Chaos Sorcerer: Comes stock with a force weapon, and with whatever mark you pick you are granted access to the power of that deity. A nice choice for a cheap character hunter. With a speed upgrade or teleporting terminator armor, any power is alright to have with this model as long as you recognize the strength and drawback of each power. Suggested to take a friendly unit to escort this guy, because he enforces a diverse mêlée advance. +Please refer to psychic powers above the HQ section. +Also note this character is similar to the Chaos Lord's selections, so refer there as well, this guy just trades the lords +1WS and Fearless to have psychic powers and a force weapon in its place. Character Tactic Summary: 1)Its wise to keep a plan for your character and his role, especially considering your mission and opponent(s). 2)Its often wise to keep your character inside another unit in this edition for protection. 3)Characters with a speed upgrade should use that speed, either with icons, great mêlée potential, tank hunting and other abilities. 4)Cheap Characters can be a distraction if you need your troops to take an objective on the last turn. 5)Go cheap if you don't know what role you want, then work up from there. 6)Being aggressive with a character that isn't durable can cause him an early death, blocking with vehicles can help here. Troops Chaos Space Marines: -Shooting: Pistol, Bolters, 1 Special Weapon, 2nd Special or Heavy weapon at 10+ models, and Twin-Linked Bolter, Plasma Pistol or Combi-Variant on the Champion. -Taking Shots: 2 Defensive Icons, able to have units of 20 with Rhino. -Mêlée: 2 Offensive, Pistol, Close Combat Weapon, Krak and Frag Grenades, 1 Champion with Power Weapon or Power Fist, Meltabombs -Taking Mêlée: 2 Defensive Icons, Power Armor. +My Notes: This unit is one of the very best units in the game for cost effectiveness, diversity and capability. I highly recommend a starter using these troops and in force. For the experienced, a very large unit with a defensive icon is near irremovable for an objective holder for its cost. This is a mid-way effectiveness when compared to the other specialist troop choices available to you in terms of cost efficient and body count so don't feel left out or put down by specialists. Berzerkers don't have Bolters+Special/Heavy weapons, Thousand Sons don't have mêlée weapons, Sonic Marines are more costly same durability marines and Plague Marines lack heavy weapons, initiative value and body count when facing with instant kill weapons. Khorne Berzerkers: (Khorne / World Eaters / Mercenary) -Shooting: Pistol, up to 2 Plasma Pistols, 1 Plasma Pistol on the Champion. -Taking Shots: Able to have units of 20 with Rhino. -Mêlée: Pistol, Close Combat Weapon, Krak and Frag Grenades, 1 Champion with Power Weapon or Power Fist, Meltabombs. -Taking Mêlée: Power Armor, Fearless. -Specialization: +1 Weapon Skill, Furious Charge, +1 Attack per model, geared heavily against non 2+ save units and really hard creatures/models. +My Notes: Ok everyone compares to last editions Berzerkers. Hitting on a 3+ except a 4+ is just as good as bringing a 3+ armor save to 4+ when fighting against marines, and helps defense against WS5 models like characters, Grey Knights and Exarches. I highly suggest a rhino, or large unit as the basis because paying for 2 champions is redundant when you can put the points elsewhere. Plague Marines: (Nurgle / Death Guard / Mercenary) -Shooting: Pistol, Bolter, 2 Special Weapons (Any Squad Size for the 2 Specials), Combi-Bolter/Combi-Variant on the Champion. -Taking Shots: Feel No Pain, Instant Death vulnerable, able to have units of 20 with Rhino. -Mêlée: Pistol, Close Combat Weapon, Krak and Frag Grenades, Champion with Power Weapon or Power Fist, Meltabombs. -Taking Mêlée: Feel No Pain, Power Armor, Fearless, -1 Initiative, Blight Grenades. -Specialization: +1 Toughness, Feel No Pain with their armor makes for 27 bolter shots, or 36 regular marine melee attacks to kill one. +My Notes: The durability of this unit begs to be put in cover or behind another unit for cover saves. They work great in mechanized armies for forcing heavy weapons fire to pinch for instant death or to pop a vehicle. Taking the charge while in cover is perfect using their defensive grenades. Their feel no pain is perfect to feel a destroyed transport result. The best transport unit out there I believe. Noise Marines: (Slaanesh / Emperor's Children / Mercenary) -Shooting: Pistol, Bolter, 1 Blastmaster, any Bolters replaced for Sonic Blasters, Doom Siren on the Champion. -Taking Shots: Able to have units of 20 with Rhino. -Mêlée: Pistol, Close Combat Weapon, Krak and Frag Grenades, Champion with Power Weapon or Power Fist, Meltabombs. -Taking Mêlée: Power Armor, Fearless. -Specialization: +1 Initiative, +My Notes: I Like using these guys for their mobile firepower, especially picking on rapid fire dependent units because of moving just within range, and letting loose with the most guns in range, forcing them to move closer means moving away and continuing the barrage. As a fearless unit with +1 initiative without sonic weapons, I suggest at least the Doom Siren for short range combat because it is a super flamer of sorts. For the Blastmaster, very few weapons can compare to it that is carried by infantry, so the cost is justified. I prefer to keep my unit either ranged, or melee oriented, combining both are for the professionals and the experimental. Thousand Sons: (Tzeentch / Thousand Sons / Mercenary) -Shooting: Warpfire Bolters, Sorcerer's pick of Doombolt, Wind of Chaos, and his Pistol with Warpfire Bolts. -Taking Shots: 4+ Inv Save, able to have units of 20 or 10 with Rhino. -Mêlée: Weak, 1 Force Weapon, Warptime, Gift of Chaos. -Taking Mêlée: 4+ Inv Save, Power Armor, Fearless -Specialization: Slow and Purposeful, Multiple Powers and use 2 powers a turn for the Sorcerer, the Sorcerer can scare off HQ's with his force weapon. +My Notes: These fellas shine against medium infantry of 3+ and 4+ save variety, and wind of chaos can close the gap against 2+ save models with moderate anti vehicle abilities, including using gift of chaos for a boost in mêlée ability against hordes. I suggest normally to use a transport with these guys, or run them out in front with their great Inv saves and provide cover for the units behind them. Often supported by a counter melee unit of course. These guys are neck and neck 13" to 24" against standing still noise marines with sonic blasters against 3+ save units and above, while they are superior to 5+ save units, in rapid fire range these guys double their worth against 3+ and 4+ save units making them more special in that category. Mêlée advised only against things scared of your Force Weapon and Gift of Chaos if you have it. Lesser Daemons: (Free Troop slot choice, summoned to an icon) -Shooting: None. -Taking Shots: 5+ Inv save, summoned and assault the same turn, able to have units of 15. -Mêlée: Like a marine, summoned and assaults the same turn. -Taking Mêlée: 5+ Inv save, Fearless. -Specialization: Summoned and assault the same turn, repeated, multiple scoring units to take objectives. +My Notes: People say these fellas are not worth the time normally don't face many Banshees, Assault Terminators, Genestealers, monstrous creatures and wish they had cheap 5+ inv save mêlée units for them. If you add the cost of any 10 models in the chaos codex with a means of special transportation and upgrades, they will cost as much as 20 lesser daemons. Two 5+ inv saves is as good as a single 3+ save, except daemons are invulnerable saves, and have double the attacks for having two models. Durability and mêlée offense covered, you see their use for the army list. Fast Attack Chaos Raptors: -Shooting: Pistol, 2 Special Weapons, 1 Plasma Pistol on the Champion. -Taking Shots: 2 Defensive Icons, able to have units of 20. -Mêlée: 2 Offensive Icons, Pistol, Close Combat Weapon, Krak and Frag Grenades, Champion with Power Weapon or Power Fist, Meltabombs. -Taking Mêlée: 2 Defensive Icons, Power Armor. -Specialization: Jump Packs, Deep Strike. +My Notes: I like Raptors with a passion, shame Icons won't help their deep strike. Great for counter charging or flying in bulk to contest an objective or fly covert style anti vehicle missions and wonderful flankers. They have a large threat area if you can hide them near the middle behind vehicles, a great defense if I must say, with icons making them diverse enough to combat all types of opponents. Chaos Bikers: -Shooting: Pistol, Twin-Linked Bolters, 2 Special Weapons, 1 Plasma Pistol on the Champion. -Taking Shots: 2 Defensive Icons, Turbo Boost, able to have units of 10. -Mêlée: 2 Offensive Icons, Pistol, Close Combat Weapon, Krak and Frag Grenades, 1 Champion with Power Weapon or Power Fist, Meltabombs -Taking Mêlée: 2 Defensive Icons, Power Armor. -Specialization: +1 Toughness, Bikes. +My Notes: Bikes are synonymous of being Daemon Bombers, now with Terminators coming in from their icons, Turbo Boost and two different defensive icons to pick from they will get the job done. Great in small tactical units for tank hunting and flanking, they are great all around, they do need icons to stand out above other bikes however and should always consider a defensive icon for them to magnify their durability. Chaos Spawn: (Free Fast Attack slot choice) -Shooting: None at all. -Taking Shots: Roughly the durability of a marine to a bolter, and can take three heavy shots that would bypass marine armor, otherwise die easy to heavy anti troop fire. -Mêlée: Random attacks, decent mêlée ability for the cost. -Taking Mêlée: Does not like str10, otherwise best used against power weapon units that already ignore armor, since spawns have none. -Specialization: Random distance movement, great being placed where difficult terrain is in their way. +My Notes: This is a touchy unit most will advise against. I prefer having the option though rather than not having it at all. Great as points filler, or as a defensive charge if you can pin one of the unit inside another unit using 3 or more models to keep them there by coherency rules. I strongly advise a 2 turn assault army to use these beasts. (Pinning them: In a triangle pattern, force one model between your models leaving less space between 3 or more models on your side keeping it in place, then let it loose when you want it to attack) Elites Chaos Possessed: -Shooting: Pistol. -Taking Shots: 2 Defensive Icons, 5+ inv save, Random Roll=Feel No Pain, able to have units of 10 with Rhino. -Mêlée: 2 Offensive Icons, Close Combat Weapon, Random Rolls=Furious Charge, Rending, Power Weapon -Taking Mêlée: 2 Defensive Icons, 5+ inv save, Power Armor, Fearless, Random Roll=Feel No Pain. -Specialization: +1 Attack, +1 Strength, Random ability. +My Notes: This unit is another highly debated unit compared to other choices because of its random factor and being compared to terminators. Those who do may not realize that if we didn't have those options, we could see that Possessed do their job very well, and do it better then most marines could except maybe "Enhanced" marines from Fabius Bile. Fearlessness, Icon Upgrades and the only unit with the scout ability on random roll for outflank or a mêlée bonus, its a wonderful unit to consider these days and not just for fluff. Chaos Chosen: -Shooting: Pistol, Bolter, 4 Special Weapons*, 1 Additional Special Weapon* or Heavy Weapon, or 5 Combi-Bolters* or 5 Combi-Variants*. -Taking Shots: 2 Defensive Icons, able to have units of 10 with Rhino. -Mêlée: 2 Offensive Icons, Pistol, Close Combat Weapon, Krak and Frag Grenades, 5 of the following weapons*, Power Weapon, Power Fist, Lightening Claw, Twin Claws, Champion. (Champ adheres to the upgrades of the rest of the unit, nothing special for him). -Taking Mêlée: 2 Defensive Icons, Power Armor. -Specialization: Infiltrate, (*) May have only 5 weapon choices from whats listed. +My Notes: A very wonderful unit that can outflank with a variety of weapons. A Rhino, a heavy load package, able to kill anything and everything. I often suggest these guys as firepower units over havocs when using a fast assault army mainly for its advance across the field. Or if your spunky, roll these guys along with 3 units of special weapons havocs for a themed assault force. Chaos Terminators: -Shooting: Combi-Bolter, 1 Reaper Autocannon or Heavy Flamer per 3, any number of Combi-Variants. -Taking Shots: 2 Defensive Icons, 2+ Armor save and 5+ Inv save, able to have units of 10 with Land Raider. -Mêlée: 2 Offensive Icons, Power Weapon, any number of Single/Twin Lightening Claws, Power Fists, Chain Fists, Champion Upgrades. -Taking Mêlée: 2 Defensive Icons, 2+ Armor save and 5+ Inv save. -Specialization: May always Deep Strike, Relentless, large variety of weapons (read page 94 for details). +My Notes: The ultimate unit. I field these as specialists among specialists. Capable of having way too many attacks with a certain icon, twin claws and Land Raider, comparable to that of 8 assault terminators in a crusader. Small units of 3 to take a Land Raider, and deep strike the 3 with anti vehicle weapons and/or flamer weapons for variety. Large units for a durable package to advance with the main force, soaking up firepower with defensive icons and being a menace with their firepower to a frightening degree. You can load this unit for anything and get it done with some luck no matter what the opponent has. If you want a high points high risk power unit, this is your unit. You can also take dirt cheap and use them like normal marines, thats not bad either. I highly recommend specializing this unit, a do-it-all might not have the effect you want. Chaos Dreadnought: -Shooting: Searchlight, Main Gun Arm: Twin-Linked Lascannon/Heavy Bolter/Reaper Autocannon; Plasma Cannon or Multi-Melta, Optional Secondary Missile Launcher. -Taking Shots: Smoke Launchers, Walker+Small, Extra Armor. -Mêlée: Optional Main Gun and Secondary replacement for one or two Dreadnought Close Combat Weapons. -Taking Mêlée: Good, Dreadnought Walker. -Specialization: Crazed! rule, unpredictable but cheap to represent it. +My Notes: Most people avoid this thing, and not to lie about it so do I. I've found ways to play with it, so I can enjoy a cheap dreadnought these days. With a cheap two Dreadnought close combat weapons makes it a simple addition to a melee advance. For a shooty dread, its wise to keep something tough near it to take the hit, such as a plasma cannon next to a land raider for example. Or just keep the cheap secondary weapon a Missile Launcher and pick frag shots next to a rhino if you prefer to have a weapon. Some who risk heavier guns bother running it through heavy terrain beyond 6" line of sight from your own models or advance it up a nakid flank where its closer to the enemy almost from deployment. A balanced dreadnought can utilize all "bonuses" from the Crazed rule, so that makes its missile launcher gold for optimists like myself. Remember theres just a chance only one turn it will shoot your own army, out of 6 turns that is. Odds are it might happen close to the enemy, just be weary after movement phase which way it would turn to aim at the closest model, so that you dont expose your rear to it. I also hear many people buy just one spawn in case it shoots at your own on the first two turns, because the spawn is average slow for a beast, if you really want big guns on the dread, this is the way to do it. Heavy Support Chaos Havocs: -Shooting: Pistol, Bolters, Any 4 Special Weapons or Heavy Weapons, and Twin-Linked Bolter, Plasma Pistol or Combi-Variant on the Champion. -Taking Shots: 2 Defensive Icons, able to have units of 20 with Rhino. -Mêlée: 2 Offensive Icons, Pistol, Close Combat Weapon, Krak and Frag Grenades, 1 Champion with Power Weapon or Power Fist, Meltabombs -Taking Mêlée: 2 Defensive Icons, Power Armor. +My Notes: This unit is is a clone of the basic Chaos Space Marines plus a few extra guns and no scoring. So you can abuse that, and make these guys a short range monster if they don't perform fire support roles. A few flamers and meltas with an icon of any sort you prefer, and these guys can perform just as good as any offensive cult trooper in the right conditions because of the added firepower. Including the cheap models of course. The only way you can pack 4 lascannons and protect them among many bodies. With the new shooting and blast rules, a large unit of 20 will protect those guns forever, especially with the icon of Tzeentch. A 20 unit with an icon may seem bold, but packing 4 Lascannons that wont die also is an annoyance to the tactical light armies such as Eldar, Tau and so on. Chaos Predator: -Shooting: Spotlight, Turret Twin-Linked Lascannons or Autocannon, Optional Side Sponsons either 2 Heavy Bolters or 2 Lascannons, and one upgrade option from the following, Combi Bolter; Combi-Variant; Havoc Launcher. -Taking Shots: Vehicle, Smoke Launchers, and any of these upgrades, Daemonic Possession, Extra Armor. -Mêlée: Tank Shocking, no bonuses. -Taking Mêlée: Average, keep it moving if your being charged. -Specialization: Battle Tank, Anti Troop / Anti Vehicle or mix. +My Notes: The preferred tank to ram vehicles with when shaken. A side note on what people get confused, TLLC+HB's or AC+LC's question to be answered in detail. TLLC+2HB version is the better mix for a defensive style, when the enemy troops are advancing or your advancing. For one, its more shots, secondly its one anti tank gun to rely on, and if you advance/get advanced apon that means a chance to hit side armor with it since it will hit 5.3 out of 6 shots. Next, the other AC+LC's, this is a ranged version that does well sitting in the back and getting better shots at a ranged foe for great ability while inside terrain. Havoc Launcher is a great addition to this vehicle and I highly recommend it, since it sets our predator apart from the loyalist version especially in the anti-troop version of AC+HB's. The anti-tank version also does well against heavy troopers and instant death for when you get the chance, so if you have a Predator, I suggest putting it together last when you figure out your forces play style first. Chaos Vindicator: -Shooting: Spotlight, Combi-Bolter, Hull Demolisher Cannon, and one upgrade option from the following, Combi Bolter; Combi-Variant; Havoc Launcher. -Taking Shots: Vehicle, Smoke Launchers, and any of these upgrades, Daemonic Possession, Extra Armor. -Mêlée: Tank Shocking, no bonuses. -Taking Mêlée: Average, keep it moving if your being charged. -Specialization: Battle Tank, medium range anti-anything. +My Notes: Probably the tank you will ram and tank shock with most when the main gun is destroyed. I prefer a combi-melta variant for when that happens. I also advise that this vehicle is perhaps the best one to give the Demonic Possession upgrade. This tank is best suited near an objective, or advancing on an objective to force pressure fire onto it, so your other vitals can advance without worry of first turn pressure. I enjoy a tank shock from an empty Rhino to force models together before the blast, more on that later though. Also to mention, as a defensive note that this is a very psychological weapon to use. Its one of the most powerful weapons to toss into a heavy support, and because of the menacing one gun model look it can force your opponent to stay out of range, try to use that for a turn or two so hold back that urge to charge in if you see an opening for victory. Chaos Defiler: -Shooting: Searchlight, Defiler Battle Cannon, Main Gun Arm: Twin-Linked Lascannon/Heavy Bolter/Reaper Autocannon; Optional Secondary Havoc Launcher or Twin-Linked Heavy Flamer. (TLHF: Counts as Re-roll failed wounds) -Taking Shots: Smoke Launchers, Walker, Daemonic Possession. -Mêlée: Optional Main Gun and Secondary replacement for one or two Dreadnought Close Combat Weapons plus two Dreadnought CCW's. -Taking Mêlée: Good, Dreadnought Walker. -Specialization: Fleet, Comes with Daemonic Possession. +My Notes: This is perhaps the most discussed model since it came out back in 3rd edition. In my opinion, its the most tactical model in the game. First, it has range, the longest range you can muster is 72", thats 24" longer than any loyalist marine weapon. You can use that, sitting in the corner or coming on from reserve and being useful the turn it arrives. Make good use of it. The next is its Mêlée potential, sure a little less initiative and weapon skill, but that doesn't matter if you keep to munching troops where powerfists strike at I1. Fleet is a very powerful rule, allowing its mêlée standard 13"-18" and a wide model to block line of sight. For hiding this beast, don't bother as its almost impossible to do it properly at all angles, lots of arguments will spur over if it gets a obscured bonus. I look at it like this, the model is 6 "legs" and a main body, if you can cover 3 whole legs and 50% of the main body, then its a yes to obscured, remember a walker can go down if two legs out of 6 on one side are gone, it can't walk or stand upright to fire a cannon any longer. (A last note on losing indirect fire, when is the last time a demon learned how to use complex targeting systems to shoot in the air, much less the patients for a Daemon to stand still when it has claws.) Chaos Land Raider: -Shooting: Spotlight, 1 Hull Twin-Linked Heavy Bolters, 2 Side Sponson Twin-Linked Lascannons, and one upgrade option from the following, Combi Bolter; Combi-Variant; Havoc Launcher. -Taking Shots: Vehicle, Smoke Launchers, and any of these upgrades, Daemonic Possession, Extra Armor. -Mêlée: Tank Shocking, no bonuses. -Taking Mêlée: Great, keep it moving if your being charged by monstrous creatures, Chain-Fists or meltabombs/haywire grenades. -Specialization: Battle Tank, Transport 10 Marines, or 5 Terminators, Assault Ramp. (Transport option for Terminators) +My Notes: The best tank to tank shock with without being a fast vehicle. The mix of weapons is deadly to any target while keeping a balance for the armor. If your facing "Lance" weapons, Railguns, "Melta" Weapons and the like I suggest keeping it in terrain for Obscured results. Chaos has some of the most deadly infantry up close and the Land Raider can help them get there. Either transporting them itself, or acting like a big brother leading the way while obscuring/hiding the smaller transports and troops with ease. Its not unwise to run two in a larger game just to block view to four or more smaller Rhinos. Even in a 2k game, you can squeeze in 6 Land Raiders for a tank army of your own design. This beast is a center piece in any army, and its worthwhile under the new vehicle rules. Havoc Launcher is advised if you prefer to hang back with it, to give it that extra anti-infantry punch its cousin 'Raiders are jealous of. I highly suggest this vehicle being an objective helper, just because thats its primary role for being an expensive non-scoring unit. (Sorry my hands are tired, going to get a drink and I will edit this properly, anyone reading this here submit your tactics, ideas and changes you would prefer while I continue this later) take 6. Also, I'll be adding a tactics section that will be requiring your help, please post tactics below in case I miss any or if any new ones I'm unaware of are around. -IG Update: I'm asking for trouble mentioning IG material. Just know that a monkey's unk' told you that IG has more AP3 and AP2 weapons then Eldar and Marines combined. Geez I was lazy, so many minor errors I missed or ignored the first time around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightmare12369 Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 seems right to me so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joah from Alberta Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 Bolt of Change can't destroy LR anymore. That's minor, otherwise, CSM it should be noted can scare (with Ld 9), whereas the cult won't. Yeah, good job, reminds me of playing Warlords II (old Amiga game). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutt-Man! Posted August 22, 2008 Author Share Posted August 22, 2008 Bolt of change, Str8 (glance-2) ap1 (+1) for a 6 to destroy. Dont be discoroged please mention anything you feel isnt correct and I'll look at it again. I played for a while in the previous edition before I did the last tactica. This edition I'm a fish almost in water, so anything helps. I'll be updating it again, watch for an update-refresh in about 2 hours from this posts posting time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalrik Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 A few things that jump out: Lord: Plaugesword (Nurgle Daemon weapon) due to the changes in poison, you get re-rolls to wound against models with = or lower T to your S value which makes it FAR outshine the Undivided Daemon Weapon. Steeds should be mentioned as not all steeds are created equal (ok so Tzeentches is completely rocking) The Deathscreamer should have a mention that although its lackluster, the fact that the lord gets a 4++ save against its effects, ofsets its "blah" ness --- Your format is a little confusing to me: -Taking Shots: 2 Defensive Icons, able to have units of 20 with rhino. -Melee: 2 Offensive, Pistol, Close Combat Weapon, Krak and Frag Grenades, 1 Champion with Power Weapon or Power Fist, Meltabombs Somone might read that as "take 2 icons, as in take nurgle and Tzeentch" I think that a discussion on the pros and cons of powerfistery, should be mentioned in units that can take em. For example: On CSM squad, it takes 40pts to put a Powerfist into the squad, (yes the leadership gets +1 as well) I personally only take Fists on units with Mark of Khorne (beserkers, and raptors with IoK) Other then those minor nit-picks and the format being a little confusing, I like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mabrothrax Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 I can't help but wonder why you've written this 'tactica' Mutt Man. It is in essence a list of what's in the codex and what each thing does, plus the occasional anecdote. Where's the tactica? I'd like to see some more detailed discussion, not just about individual units, but about the use of units in conjunction with one another (i.e. what makes a Chaos army tick). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joah from Alberta Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 Functional army use would be advance tactica. Not a bad idea-- I'm up to 8 rhinos with Fabius, I call it The Maze of Fabius. Otherwise Mutt-man, don't be yourself discouraged. Nevermind the (writing/)formatting, we are here for you to practice upon with pleasure. At the risk of scaring the topic, keep it up the good. Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutt-Man! Posted August 30, 2008 Author Share Posted August 30, 2008 Thanks for the input, I'm going out of town a lot these days so the time between updates I can leave for replies so I can make proper updates. -Moderator asked me to update the tactica I did some time ago, for those who are just tuning in. I will put everything in proper format, as long as I know whats confusing to an onlooker. I've written in ragtag formats like these for a long time so I can't tell whats confusing to someone glancing over things. So let me know when I get something a bit off, ok? (I will be using "Character Map" program in the end for a final update for cleanliness) Advance army tactica, if you have read my previous tactica you would see some older tactics thrown in there, that aren't quite updated properly into 5th edition yet. It will be included later when I put some real time into it, and I will probably start a separate thread for it. I will probably put a number system to what tactics can be performed for each unit. Any more suggestions? I'll be gone a few more days, but I'll do a bit more on the update now. Please keep it coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 Enjoyed the Tactica, can I make a technical suggestion? How about highlighting in bold the title of each thing you are talking about, makes things a little easier to find the units/powers you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeller Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 Defiler's Battlecannon is 72 inch range not 60. Havoc squads are units of 5-10, not 5-20. Great read btw! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutt-Man! Posted September 4, 2008 Author Share Posted September 4, 2008 @Zeller Thanks for the battle cannon notification. On the other hand, only Terminators, Chaos Bikers and Chosen are limited to 10 max models out of all the marine models. 15 for Daemons, 3 for Spawns, and Obliterators. I am looking at making an easier to read format so people can swish though this with minor difficulty. When I get the format done I'll continue with the other models, starting with battle tactics. I would appreciate more tactics if you guys have any to share. I'll bother AmicusA a little later for additions to those who may not have seen this thread. (EDIT) Oh I forgot to mention Kalric, the Undivided Daemon Weapon is the only one given a bonus against vehicles under the new rules. Thats why its still on higher terms to match the Nurgle Daemon Weapon, and the others who inherently got similar bonuses because of rules updates. By the way guys(and girls) let me know what you think of the current theme. I'll daisy it up later, and I know the colorblind will not get much from the color update so I'll be working on that too. Thanks in advance for any more info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teg Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 The theme? Err... you need more formatting. Lots more formatting. Look at the two existing tacticas to see what I mean. I would advise you observe closely the format of the Marine Tactica of course, since I formatted it :). Make the HQ/Elites/Troops/FA/HS headings the same colour, and colour in all the unit names in a different (but constant) colour. Make use of formatting within each entry, eg: Thousand Sons: (Tzeentch / Thousand Sons / Maercenary) -Shooting: Warpfire Bolters, Sorcerer's pick of Doombolt, Wind of Chaos, and his Pistol with Warpfire Bolts. -Taking Shots: 4+ Inv Save, able to have units of 20 or 10 with Rhino. -Mêlée: Weak, 1 Force Weapon, Warptime, Gift of Chaos. -Taking Mêlée: 4+ Inv Save, Power Armor, Fearless -Specialization: Slow and Purposeful, Multiple Powers and use 2 powers a turn for the Sorcerer, the Sorcerer can scare off HQ's with his force weapon. +My Notes: These fellas shine against medium infantry ... Also, remove anything in a units entry that applies to many units (eg: Can be taken in units of 20, 10 in a rhino. All troops can do that.), and stick them in another section (eg. cont. So put it at the top of the Troops section). If I'm reading about Thousand Sons, I don't want to read something I've already read under Noise Marines. If you look at the 1kSons again, look at the Shooting line. You've said "Warpfire Bolts", but what you need to say is "Good against MEqs due to Warpfire Bolts". Anyone can read the rules, your job is to show us the implications of those rules. Always point out if you have to purchase something as an upgrade: -Mêlée: Weak, Sorcerer has a Force Weapon and can have Warptime and/or Gift of Chaos. I'll stop complaining about your formatting now. :P I do, however, have something to say about Noise Marines (might apply to 1kSons too): They can shoot out to 24", but are troops. Take 1 or 2 units of 'em, sit them on objectives in your deployment. They still contribute to the fight due to their range, but are also scoring units for objectives. Normal CSM units need to get close to their target to damage it so can't sit on objective in your deployment, but NM can! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutt-Man! Posted September 5, 2008 Author Share Posted September 5, 2008 I'm more of a mosey around and take things in as I walk along the country side sort of fella. Don't worry about critique. Thanks for the info, but unfortunately I have to get ready to head to a family get-together and before I make any other all-changing rifts I'll give it a little more time for any further comments before another update. (Not like your post is going anywhere so I won't forget) -I promise these trips will stop happening and I'll get to updating this properly, soon, I hope... -oh btw thanks for pointing out the "Maecernary". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teg Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 To be quite honest, I didn't see the 'Maercenary'! ^_^ Enjoy the get-together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romulas Posted September 6, 2008 Share Posted September 6, 2008 hey Mutt-Man, great job. its always good to get another viewpoint on army choices. as for tactics, everyone has their own methods of madness.... but anything that may help is always worth a read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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