No idea what's going on in this topic anymore.

[Mordekiem]

Actually SeattleDV8, you kinda sum up what I am saying. You take the models off the table... aka they are not there. You specificly may fire (from fire points, or an open topped vehicle), use psychic powers, and count as scoring, because there are very specific rules saying you may do these things.

 

I dont see anywhere where it says they otherwise count as on the table, I do see where is specificly says they are removed from the table--a weak rule apparently?

You say they are specific exceptions. To me (and just about everyone I know or have talked to) they are clarifications and show the intent of the new ruleset is that the unit is still on the board and in the fight even if the models are not. Since they are still in the fight then they can effect the battlefield normally. It is much more common sense 99% of the time than not allowing the passengers to use their abilities. The apothecary example is one of very few that don't make sense. But just one poor example out of many does not mean it is wrong.

 

I think the statement about removing the models from the board is to just clarify that they are in the transpoert and not walking around. How else would you represent this? IMO you are reading too much into that statement and thinking in 4th edition terms.

[SeattleDV8]

[it all boils down to perspective, and my perspective is that with the rules being a permissive set, the terms 'if you need to measure range' do not equal 'you may measure range as if you were not in a transport, with the following change to normal measurement'. I really dont care which way GW erratas everything, but they do need an errata, because the rule on page 66, under the embarking section, is just a measurement rule. A rule on how models that need to measure may measure. Not a rule saying that models in a transport may use all abilities with a range in a transport.

 

As a final example, consider the following; a psychic hood with no range specified (dark angels for example), and the new marine psychic hood with a 24 inch range. If we assume my side is wrong, and the rule on page 66 allows abilities to be used in a vehicle, then the marine psychic hood with a 24 inch range may be used within a vehicle because the 'if you need to measure range' clause is invoked for the psychic hood's 24 inch range. However, the ability of older psychic hoods, which have NO range, will never invoke the 'if you need to measure range, measure from the vehicles hull' clause, thus they have no specified rule that allows them to be used, as they are not shooting attacks, not psychic abilities, and not ranged abilities. Thus, is there any place in the rulebook that says you can use items (like a psychic hood) that have no range attached to them, while in a transport?

I don't follow what your argument is. The measurement is for shooting and psychic powers (from the fire slit) .

The PSYCHIC hood isn't a psychic ability?? Funny my C:DA says that it is. One keyed to a foes use of a Psychic power. the idea that a ability that has unlimited range can't be used because you don't measure for it is just.......odd. That would also be be an argument for the Apothecary since you have to measure. It was 4th that disallowed units in transport from scoring. In 5th they have been spelled out as scoring. That is a big change that calls for some new thought. Also things like a unit in a transport that is wrecked by shooting CAN be assaulted. The Unit is on the board (models are not)

[Morticon]

The PSYCHIC hood isn't a psychic ability?? Funny my C:DA says that it is.

 

Including incorrect information in your argument will just give the other person steam to keep going with the unrelated issue matey.

 

You may wanna check your C: DA again. It says nothing about the hood being an ability. You dont need to make a test to use it either.

[SeattleDV8]

ability not Power, no test but you do need to roll off with the other psycher.

[Shiodome]

:D