New Codex SM Units

[BTB]

as of creating a codex space wolves chapter..odd i know, but by jove the amounts of stuff you can create. ive even been told that as long as i don't use them in tournies i can have wolf scouts as troop! wicked! also all the plethora of things sm have and sw. does anyone have any idea for a name...

 

I haver been working on some fluff for "Sea Wolves". Basically, a pre-heresy Legio VI troop who accompanied the Emperor to find Leman Russ. When they met him the Captain thought he was a barbarian and didn't like him much. Anyhoo, they followed Russ as ordered by the Emperor but in the heat of battle a squad got left behind on an Ocean planet. They were left for 50 years and then discovered again well after the heresy.

 

There is more to it but I am still working the fluff through to make sure it kinda stands up. The upshot is that they are a codex chapter but have their roots in the Wolves. The idea is that they will follow C:SM but only be allowed to take wargear from C:SW. The theory behind this is that when they were re-discovered by the Wolves they were given a limited supply of wargear in return for allegiance to The Fang.

 

If anyone's interested I'll post up the fluff. It would be useful to get some expert eyes to poke holes in it so that it works properly.

 

BTB

[Ladislao]

if i were not doing an ork project right now... i would do a massive terminator unit, all with storm shield, and 3 ( 3!) cyclone missile launcher... just immagine the havock of 6 missiles before the wolves charge... ok, a lot pf point, but i m sure someone would turn green for the anger 8D

[Grantyr Greymantle]

If things are listed with points costs and options in our codex (rhinos, razorbacks) and have not been mentioned in any faq then that must be the price we pay, so high cost and cheap options will be my way forward on these

I second that

 

If there are new vehicle types/variants that are available that an faq has given us permission to use then we can. If there are new entries which haven't been mentioned/granted in an faq yet then I don't feel we should. So for the time being I won't be taking Ironclad Dreads etc

Why not take a Ironclad, the FAQ states we can take a dread out of the SM dex and that we can take all different variants except a venerable

 

Where our codex says "see codex space marines" for any particular entry like whirlwinds then thats what we should do, other wise options etc are as in C:SW. So for me it will be C:SM for most tank/droppod options that we can take and C:SW for Ven Dreads

We cant take the ven SM dread

 

In my opinion we still have some of the toughest troops around with more options than most. Our HQs are unique and we still get obel scouts. I don't mind playing with with an old codex until things are dealt with but I don't want to spend half a game arguing the toss with my opponant about wether this or that choice is allowed or not at this price or that

 

I don't want to play grey coloured smurfs, I want to play Space Wolves, with whatever short comings there may be

FOR RUSS

 

AYE!!

[Bullet_magnet]

All I have to say is that I'm doing back flips over the new storm shields. Now I can go up to the DAs and say "in yo face losa' as I run up the field with a 3+ Inv on every HQ I got and watch them turn a lovely shade of green. oh and food for thought, chooser of the slain is the best 10 point piece of wargear b/c it lets you get that coveted +1 attack with a power fist or thunder hammer and +2 for twin lightning claws and takes away some of your enemies infiltration abilities, bye bye genestealers lets see the smurfs do that! some of the senior ranking wolf players probably know this but I thought I might mention that since we are jumping for joy here.

[Vanger]

Ok, this all is nice (if inconsistent, I'm not looking forward to clear this up every time I play my SW) but what about the wehicles, which are listed with a point cost in the SW codex but have options not listed there?

Yes, I'm talking about the Razorback. It's cost are listed in the SW codex, we even have the vehicle upgrades, but what about the options? What if I want to use a Razorback with something else then twin-linked Heavy Bolters? I refer to the SM codex for that?

 

Ok, this is understandable and not a big thing, after all we've done this for years, picking our army together from a mini-dex, the SM dex and the FAQ(s), but this incosistency bugs me nontheless. I still can't understand, why the SW can't have Rhinos and Razorbacks for the points listed in the 5th ed. SM codex...

 

or wait... the 5th ed. SM codex isn't out officialy so our current SW FAQ is for WH40K 5th ed. ruleset and the 4th ed. C:SM. Here is hoping for an update regarding Rhinos and Razorbacks.

 

Edit:

 

Why are people thinking, that the SW will get the 3+ invulnerable Storm Shields? None of the FAQs ever published mentioned, that we use the rules for wargear in the SM codex instead of what stands in the SW codex. We can agin only hope that we get a regulation that we use the rules for our wargear found in the SM Codex (and that Healing Potions and Balms will function like the SM Narthecioum, giving FNP to the unit he"s attached to)

Or is it that the fact that the SW codex does not contain an appropiate description of the Storm Shield aside from that wastly outdated description in the summary?

[fjugin]

Why are people thinking, that the SW will get the 3+ invulnerable Storm Shields? None of the FAQs ever published mentioned, that we use the rules for wargear in the SM codex instead of what stands in the SW codex. We can agin only hope that we get a regulation that we use the rules for our wargear found in the SM Codex (and that Healing Potions and Balms will function like the SM Narthecioum, giving FNP to the unit he"s attached to)

Or is it that the fact that the SW codex does not contain an appropiate description of the Storm Shield aside from that wastly outdated description in the summary?

It is because the codex say that we should look in codex space marines for rules to all wargear in italics (top of page 14 C:SW).

Storm shields are in italics, so we look in C:SM for rules, and the new C:SM says 3+ invulnerable Storm from Shields.

[Max_Dammit]

Ok, this all is nice (if inconsistent, I'm not looking forward to clear this up every time I play my SW) but what about the wehicles, which are listed with a point cost in the SW codex but have options not listed there?

Yes, I'm talking about the Razorback. It's cost are listed in the SW codex, we even have the vehicle upgrades, but what about the options? What if I want to use a Razorback with something else then twin-linked Heavy Bolters? I refer to the SM codex for that?

 

The FAQ clearly states what vehicles to use out of the SM dex and there point costs

The rest is out of our dex

[Wolf89]

We can agin only hope that we get a regulation that we use the rules for our wargear found in the SM Codex (and that Healing Potions and Balms will function like the SM Narthecioum, giving FNP to the unit he"s attached to)

 

We won't use the SM codex's Narthecium that gives the FNP because our healing potions and balms in our codex NEVER state to use the SM codex, it's completely different wargear for all we know. It's also not written in italics like others have said is why we use the Storm Shields in the new SM codex. ;)

[MaveriK]

I'm not so impressed with the Librarian Psychic power called The Gate of Infinity... its similar to our 13th Companies Rune Priest power The Gate. That power alone was one of the great things that made the 13th company unique! now not so much, welcome to Games Workshop :confused: I just wonder if the whole, Space Wolves are a non-chapter codex deal will be as consistent in the future codex ;)

[OnlyInDeath]

We can agin only hope that we get a regulation that we use the rules for our wargear found in the SM Codex (and that Healing Potions and Balms will function like the SM Narthecioum, giving FNP to the unit he"s attached to)

 

We won't use the SM codex's Narthecium that gives the FNP because our healing potions and balms in our codex NEVER state to use the SM codex, it's completely different wargear for all we know. It's also not written in italics like others have said is why we use the Storm Shields in the new SM codex. ;)

 

 

Quick question then since I havent had a long look at the new book (doest come out here in the US for a while now <_< ) But what does the fang of morakai do now that it's the same as a reductor?

[WolfLordLars]

You guys do what you like. I am using ALL of the new units in the new SM Codex until told otherwise. Much like the chart of vehicle upgrades, I think the prices for Rhinos/Razorbacks were put in our codex only for reference, not as a solid "you pay X amount no matter what".

 

Thats what I did with 4th ed, thats what I plan to do with 5th. If GW wants it to work differently, they can add it to the FAQ or errata.

 

If my opponent INSISTED that I take the point total from our codex for Rhino's, I would ask if I could use them as they were in 3rd ed, since thats how old it is. If I can get my rhino rush back, I would GLADLY pay the cost. ;) Then I would find a new opponent, because crap like that got me to quit last time.

[Crimson Devil]

Do what you will Lars, but you might find yourself labeled a powergamer or worse.

[fjugin]

You guys do what you like. I am using ALL of the new units in the new SM Codex until told otherwise. Much like the chart of vehicle upgrades, I think the prices for Rhinos/Razorbacks were put in our codex only for reference, not as a solid "you pay X amount no matter what".

 

Are you also going to pay 25 for all power fists? If not, what is the difference between codex specific cost for rhinos and codex specific cost for power fist?

[WolfLordLars]

Good point I suppose. Will wait and see.

 

Ok, so use our point cost to add a Rhino or Razorback to a squad. Then use the description from C:SM for the unit? Upgrades too?

 

 

It just doesnt sit well with me. We get our wargear so cheap because our troops cost more. It balances out. A Rhino is a Rhino, we dont get any special rules for them, they are generic. I think the fact that they are not mentioned in the FAQ is more of an oversight than an intentional "Use the costs from the Codex:SW".

 

 

 

I will ask the consensus locally, see what the others think. To be blunt, with everyone being able to run, I think the days of Rhinos is gone. The only real advantage would be to rush 12", unload, and have the troops run to cover from there. Might work...

[alok_horgrim]

here's an interesting note i just thought about reading this thread. our iron priest is useless now, because a servo-arm no longer confers the ability to repair a vehicle. that particular ability is now a special rule tacked onto the techpriest and not the servo-arm.

[Max_Dammit]

Come on man A rino in our dex is 5 points more expensive than in the SM dex so whats the bigg deal.

 

And i never used raizorbacks zo ill do without them till the new SW dex comes out

[Ant]

Taken from http://belloflostsouls.blogspot.com

 

Space Wolves (courtesy of Warseer's dosadi)

We also have word of the following Codex:Space Wolves updates:

 

The Codex is into testing

 

Blood Claws are armed with bolt pistol, ccw, frag, and krak and can take special weapons or powerfist/power weapons. They have Furious Charge instead of berserker charge. Minimum squad size is 10 and they can go as high as 20. WS is now 4 but BS stays at 3.

 

Grey Hunters are armed like Chaos marines (bolter, bolt pistol, ccw, grenades). No more True Grit, but Counter Charge stays for this unit. They can take an assortment of special weapons or powerfist/power weapons. Squad Leader is a wolf guard with options like a vet sergeant from Codex:Dark Angels.

 

Jump pack Blood Claws are a separate unit entry now.

 

Wolf Guard are split into two squad types - terminators and power armour.

 

Wolf scouts can infiltrate or come on from any table edge.

 

Long Fangs stay as is. Probably picking up a bolt pistol and ccw in addition to their big guns.

 

Dreads and ven dreads go down to WS4, but Bjorn is back as a special character. Unknown if they can be HQ units.

[Wolf89]

Taken from http://belloflostsouls.blogspot.com

 

Space Wolves (courtesy of Warseer's dosadi)

We also have word of the following Codex:Space Wolves updates:

 

The Codex is into testing

 

Blood Claws are armed with bolt pistol, ccw, frag, and krak and can take special weapons or powerfist/power weapons. They have Furious Charge instead of berserker charge. Minimum squad size is 10 and they can go as high as 20. WS is now 4 but BS stays at 3.

 

Grey Hunters are armed like Chaos marines (bolter, bolt pistol, ccw, grenades). No more True Grit, but Counter Charge stays for this unit. They can take an assortment of special weapons or powerfist/power weapons. Squad Leader is a wolf guard with options like a vet sergeant from Codex:Dark Angels.

 

Jump pack Blood Claws are a separate unit entry now.

 

Wolf Guard are split into two squad types - terminators and power armour.

 

Wolf scouts can infiltrate or come on from any table edge.

 

Long Fangs stay as is. Probably picking up a bolt pistol and ccw in addition to their big guns.

 

Dreads and ven dreads go down to WS4, but Bjorn is back as a special character. Unknown if they can be HQ units.

 

Thanks for posting, but we've had these rumors posted numerous times. It also doesn't fit with this topic because it has nothing to do with the new C:SM. Thanks though, don't take this as being mean, just that we've already gotten this info. Thanks for your time however. ;)

 

As for lars, I can't believe you're already back at your power gaming ways (mr. WGBL with AC's! what were you thinking?!... well the FAQ proved you right though... ;) hehe).

 

I don't have access to the files or the codex since I'm in a class right now but the fang of morkai from my knowledge would be ignoring morale modifiers for loosing too many casualties from shooting. It won't confer FNP.

 

You can't make the link between healing potions and balms because no where... let me repeat, NO WHERE, does it say that it works similar to a narthecium or imply to look into C:SM. It works differently, it's given to our equivalent of a chaplain, over an apothecary, and the cost is different (included in apothecary's cost instead of buying it as wargear like ours is).

 

As much as I'd love FNP, you can't turn me on this one until an FAQ, or someone PROVES otherwise. :P

 

Also as Max said, it's 5 points more, no need to ignore FAQ's to get your way with Rhinos and Razorbacks. :(

[WolfLordLars]

Hey, I said I INTEND to, not that I have yet. <_< And your right, the FAQ did back me up on that one.

 

In the new SM dex, I thought I read that rhino's are 15pts less than what is listed in our dex (not sure if I can post the actual costs?). My solution, rather than messing with it, is just not to use the things. I dont really think we should use the high cost listed in our codex, though I do see the point you all are making. So, rather than exploiting a grey area, I just dont use it.

 

As for the rumors, I hope alot of that info is wrong.. but I have a year and a half to worry about it.

 

The Fang says it works like a Reductor. If in the new C:SM they combine the two, we dont have much choice but to use the rules there. That, or wait for a FAQ... ;)

 

 

... back to my powergaming ways... :) Its in the blood man, I wasnt back for a week before I found out that our Dreads get counter-attack.

[Wolf89]

Hey, I said I INTEND to, not that I have yet. ;) And your right, the FAQ did back me up on that one.

 

In the new SM dex, I thought I read that rhino's are 15pts less than what is listed in our dex (not sure if I can post the actual costs?). My solution, rather than messing with it, is just not to use the things. I dont really think we should use the high cost listed in our codex, though I do see the point you all are making. So, rather than exploiting a grey area, I just dont use it.

 

As for the rumors, I hope alot of that info is wrong.. but I have a year and a half to worry about it.

 

The Fang says it works like a Reductor. If in the new C:SM they combine the two, we dont have much choice but to use the rules there. That, or wait for a FAQ... :rolleyes:

 

 

... back to my powergaming ways... ;) Its in the blood man, I wasnt back for a week before I found out that our Dreads get counter-attack.

 

If they are combined, then I guess we get REALLY cheap FNP and I will gladly field the so called "I win button" unit and have people call me beardy.

 

They are 15 points less, but the vehicle upgrades are actually more, so if you give the same weapon upgrades ours our only 5 points more...

[megamat008]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned that Drop Pods could now carry 12 men, that's a huge boon for us SW.

 

The Drop Pod assult rule also prevents them from coming piecemeal.

 

We could drop up to 6x12 BC or GH ( even better: 10GH led by a WGBG in Termi armour with CML :rolleyes: ) on objectives, and these units would be very hard to budge.

 

Add to that the fact that DW launchers are BS4 so won't scatter a lot, I can see some horde players dreading the moment when they will be on the receiving end of 6 S5 pie plates a turn ;)

[WolfLordLars]

DPs carry 12? OUTSTANDING! So, 6 terminators.. that helps a bit.

 

On Rhino's - I dont think you get it both ways. We have to use the vehicle upgrades from C:SM. At least, we did in 4th ed. The one in our codex is a 'reference' last I heard. So, not only do we pay more for the base model, we pay the raised upgrade prices in C:SM. THAT is where my problem is. They bumped the upgrade prices.

 

Anyone want some old style rhino's? Got a few of them, and a razorback. Keeping my old whirlwind, its low-profile. :)

[Wolf89]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned that Drop Pods could now carry 12 men, that's a huge boon for us SW.

 

The Drop Pod assult rule also prevents them from coming piecemeal.

 

We could drop up to 6x12 BC or GH ( even better: 10GH led by a WGBG in Termi armour with CML :wallbash: ) on objectives, and these units would be very hard to budge.

 

Add to that the fact that DW launchers are BS4 so won't scatter a lot, I can see some horde players dreading the moment when they will be on the receiving end of 6 S5 pie plates a turn :wallbash:

 

A WGBG can't be with GH's so you don't have a heavy weapon with the GH's. Only way is giving them a WGBL but then I'd give them either a heavy flamer or an AC, not a CML.

 

As for the old style Rhinos and Razorbacks... I'm tempted to get them to use for my vindicator conversions, but I think people will cry foul... :)

[Max_Dammit]

They are 15 points less, but the vehicle upgrades are actually more, so if you give the same weapon upgrades ours our only 5 points more...

Than it would be only 4 points (search light)

 

 

On Rhino's - I dont think you get it both ways. We have to use the vehicle upgrades from C:SM.

I never seen a FAQ that stated this, and this one doesn't either.

[WolfLordLars]

I am pretty sure the last one did. We havent used the costs in our codex for vehicle upgrades since 3rd ed. Of course, finding a 4th ed FAQ might be tough, I just trashed mine.

 

To back that up, I will cite the LRE. It says it may take any of the vehicle upgrades allowed in the Space Marine Armoury. Why would one of our tanks use the armoury in the SM codex and not the rest? Doesnt make sense.

 

But, I am 100% sure that I have not used the prices listed in the back of our codex since 4th came out and the marines got a new codex. I am 99.9% sure that was mentioned in the 4th ed FAQ. It was put there in our codex more for reference than anything else. Just like assault cannons no longer being heavy 3 without rending (which is how they are listed in our codex).

 

Thats just how I see it.

 

 

Wolf - If your serious about wanting some old rhino's, PM me. I really do think I want rid of them. I used to like the older models, easier to transport in my case.. but now, with true LOS, they have lost alot of their charm for me. Then this mess, I think I am going more for a DP or infantry force.